Senators Kerry and Edwards...will you lead the fight on overtime?

[Nazgul35]

The Bush admin has stuck in the coming budget the changes to overtime that was fought back in the last session.....

My question to the two men who are seeking the nomination for our Party....

You each have the power to prevent this from occurring by holding up the budget through a filibuster in the Senate....organize the Dems and stop this rider from getting through! Show us just how much of a leader that you are.....

Dean and Clark can't stop it......Kucinich can't stop it.....Lieberman(?)...only these two men have the power to step up to the plate and begin the fight with Bush now!!!!

I would encourage everyone here, supporters and non-supporters alike, to contact these two men and ask them to take up this fight, and than we will see exactly what kind of mettle they have!

Many who have defended the IWR that it was easy to oppose the resolution when you didn't have to vote on it.....you have defended, eloquently, these mens decisions as correct and right....

So, now, these two men have the power to right another wrong....tell the repugs in the Senate that no....absolutely no bill gets through the Senate with this rider attached!!!!

Senators Edwards and Kerry.....show me the money!!!!!!!!

[arewethereyet]

1. I'm down with that, thats MY overtime pay they're messing with

And there's a trainload of pork in there that we could live without as well.

[Nazgul35]

2. time to draw a line in the sand.....

are they fighters? Will they stand up now, when they can?

For me the jury is out...I am hoping they will take the challange and stomp Bush in the Senate!!!

[Zinnola]

4. OT is a big issue

Kerry and Edwards better not follow Bushit on this train.

[hellhathnofury]

3. But that would take a spine.

[sangh0]

46. Kerry has spine

Ignoring Other Candidates, Kerry Turns Focus on Bush
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/22/politics/22DEMS.html

Moving up in the New Hampshire polls, Senator John Kerry ignored his rivals on Wednesday and blasted President Bush on health care and charged that new rules on overtime supported by the administration would bar many veterans from overtime pay.

Mr. Kerry said the president had rightly praised American troops and veterans in his State of the Union address. "But once again it's an example of a say-one-thing-and-do-another administration," he said, pointing to the overtime dispute....

[Nazgul35]

5. Does this thread have to mention Deans Iowa speech

before anyone of the other candidates respond?

Four responses.....

sad...

[hellhathnofury]

6. I think so. Put something inflammatory in the title.

If you flame it, they will come.

[spooky3]

7. I don't know how supporters can respond.

Isn't that a good question to raise of the candidates themselves? You can check their websites. If a topic is not yet covered on the websites, why not email their Senate offices yourself?

I agree with you that the overtime changes being discussed are awful but have not studied them enough to know what the best changes would be. But I would bet someone on Edwards' staff is working on this.

[Nazgul35]

11. I think it is an important enough question that

we should all be asking...supports from all sides....

Do we want to see if these men are good enough to lead this party?

I am planning on writing the campaigns....I am getting all the proper bill numbers so I can be as specific as possible (PS: any help here would be appreciated....I know about Thomas.gov)

But one voice alone can be ignored, all of us....and I think all of us really do care about this issue (and are pissed at Daschle), that we want them to do just this....so let's let them know we want it!!!!!!

I personally believe that the Dem response should have been the four leading candidates, all getting ten minutes to slam Bush...it would have shown unity and a certain amount of style that would have made Bush look silly....

[spooky3]

21. it would be great if this were a debate question tomorrow

[Very Good Dem]

27. See my post #26 below

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. I'll bet they both wuss out and skip the vote

Just like they both did on the "secret" Patriot II vote.

Well if not voting for a DLC candidate = a vote for Bush, than certainly 2 senators refusing to vote against Bush = 2 votes FOR his sick agenda.

[arewethereyet]

10. I think its would be politically insane to miss this vote

the boys are not THAT foolish.

[spooky3]

9. Seriously, why not change your title to include "overtime"?

It's a good topic that hasn't been discussed much in GD2004.

[Nazgul35]

12. thanks....

already changed....you want a job as my thread editor?

:evilgrin:

[slinkerwink]

13. let's see if they're REAL leaders....

instead of just all talk and hot air from behind a podium...

[Nazgul35]

14. kick....

come on people...stop pissing down each other's backs for five seconds and talk about an issue our candidates can actually do something about.....right now!

[Walt Starr]

15. Labor is dead

or at least allowed itself to be manipulated in Iowa.

Why should Kerry and Edwards care? They're in New Hampshire.

:shrug:

[Nazgul35]

16. except....

that people not in unions get overtime....this is a worker's issue...

(I understood the sarcasim....but chose to answer anyway!!!)

:evilgrin:

[dusty64]

17. Well, it would

have helped if the three Senators running for President had shown up to vote yesterday. The bill was temporarily stopped by a vote of 48-45 with 7 missing. One just had emergency surgery so he gets a pass, but not the rest of them. Business as usual with most of our Democrats, I was really hoping for SO much more.

[Very Good Dem]

18. They didn't need to be there

This was a cloture vote, which requires that the Republicans get 60 votes to end the filibuster. If they don't get 60 yes votes, the filibuster continues, regardless how many no votes there are.

Thus, the three Senators' presence would have made no difference either way. In fact, NONE of the Democrats needed to be there since the Republicans didn't have the 60 votes they needed.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. Yep, no difference.

Except for the constituents that they "represent."


This argument is like: "I don't need to go to work today. They'll cover me."

They get paid a salary to vote. Every time. Even if it's 99-1, I want to know how my Congressperson voted. Stand up and be counted!

[spooky3]

22. Sorry, I disagree. No one is "at work" every single day and besides,

they are not sipping maitais in Miami. This is a crucial stage in the election process. I want the best candidates doing their best job campaigning so that we find the best candidate and get rid of the Rove machine next fall. That is a bigger prize to me than being present for a vote that the Repubs will certainly lose even in their absence.

[Very Good Dem]

24. Perhaps those who are bashing candidates for missing votes

think that the field should be limited to unemployed, independently wealthy (or broke) politicians or Al Sharpton.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

25. No one is at work every day? They get more vacation than

anyone in this country! They work maybe 7-8 months out of the year! And you're telling me that they can't be bothered to do what they are paid to do?

[spooky3]

28. You know quite well what they were all "bothering" to do this week,

and it is not vacation.

See ya later.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. Looking for another job? On company time?

As long as we're clear on that.

[Very Good Dem]

32. Were you this exorcised when Gov. Dean was going around the country

building support for his potential candidacy "on company time?"

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

33. Didn't miss one, count 'em. one, vote.

Didn't fail to sign or veto a single bill.

[Very Good Dem]

34. But since we both know that a Gov. doesn't vote and bill signing is not

his only job.

Do you know how many meetings he missed? How many events he failed to attend? How many speeches he failed to give? How many briefings he couldn't make? How many constituents he couldn't see?

Oh, that's right. You couldn't know. Gov. Dean's records are sealed, aren't they?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

39. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. And 40%.

You'll hear all about the evil stuff in the undisclosed parts in a couple of weeks.

[Very Good Dem]

31. Right . . .

And if they made every vote and missed important campaign events, they'd get bashed for not taking the campaign and the voters seriously.

[Very Good Dem]

23. They get paid to represent their constituents

which does not always require that they cast a meaningless vote to prove a point on an issue they have already stated their position about.

It's clear from your posts that you just can't stand Edwards, Kerry and Lieberman, perhaps because of your support for Dean, but you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. I don't believe you give two hoots whether they vote or what their constituents think. I suspect that you're just looking for something, anything to criticize them for.

Or did I miss your praise for John Edwards' perfect voting record during his first few years in the Senate when he didn't miss a single vote?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. To prove a point?

The point is: "This is where I stand. For you."



P.S. Can't stand Lieberman. No matter where he stands.

[Very Good Dem]

40. Edwards has made it more than clear where he stands on this

Showing up for a cloture vote wouldn't have made any difference.

Plus, there are many ways to serve and make a difference in people's lives. John Edwards believes that he can do even more by becoming President and putting in place an administration that protects workers' rights, civil rights, our economic security, etc. And the only way to do this is to run, which involves campaigning and, occasionally missing votes. And, as I already noted, if the only people who should be allowed to run for office our unemployed, independently wealthy or broke people, we won't have a very strong candidate pool.

[Leilani]

36. I watched debate about this in the Senate

A few Republicans are opposing this bill because it has outrageous things in it; also is laden with pork projects.
They are being led by McCain, & I don't know when the next vote is, but I think Daschle as already cried Uncle, & said the Dems would let it pass.

[paulk]

20. the bill hasn't passed yet, has it?

I'm sure that Kerry, Edwards, and Lieberman will be there if they're needed.

[Very Good Dem]

26. It may be helpful to know that Edwards co-sponsored legislation to protect

overtime pay for workers.

The bill he co-sponsored was popularly known as the Harkin Amendment. Yes, that Harkin. Thanks to the efforts of Harkin, Edwards and other (including Lieberman and Kerry), the measure passed.

[spooky3]

29. Thanks, Very Good Dem.

[Leilani]

37. But the Conference Committee stripped out the O/T amend.

Therefore, O/T is not protected if bill passes.

[Leilani]

38. But I really think it's too late

the Dems have let it be known the bill will pass. The 3 Senators running will not make a difference, if Daschle caves.

[Very Good Dem]

41. Yes it was, but I cited this amendment as one indication of where Edwards

stands on this issue.

[dusty64]

42. Looks like we're gonna

get the same type of opposition and "leadership" we have gotten used to over the last few years. I bet the extreme right could push a bill outlawing the Democratic party and it would pass with a token fight. I am so uninspired and disgusted with these politicians, wonder who will and will not show up to vote on this monster?



Senate to Vote on Ending Spending Delays
Thu Jan 22, 2:34 AM ET Add Politics - U. S. Congress to My Yahoo!


By ALAN FRAM, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Congress' belated approval of a $373 billion bill financing a vast swath of the government would give President Bush (news - web sites) a bushel of victories and Democrats a mixed bag, while turning the page to campaign-year fights over next year's budget.


AP Photo


AP Photo
Slideshow: Mad Cow Disease




The Republican-run Senate planned to vote anew Thursday on ending Democratic delays against the legislation, which would finance agriculture, veterans and most other domestic programs. The measure is for the federal fiscal year that began Oct. 1 — nearly four months ago.


Leaders of both parties said they believed supporters would garner the 60 votes needed to halt the slowdown tactics and pass the bill.


Many Democrats remained angry about overtime pay, food labeling and other controversies it addresses. But with Republicans adamant about not changing the measure, enough Democrats were expected to succumb to its tons of home-state projects and spending boosts for popular programs.


"There's too much riding" on the money in the bill to block it, Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle, D-S.D., told reporters Wednesday. "We're certainly not going to shut down the government ... or deny important funding" for programs.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=512&ncid=703&e=5&u=/ap/20040122/ap_on_go_co/congress_spending

[dusty64]

43. Looks like our "fighters"

are lining up again to defend us from the extreme right assault. Is their really any wonder why many of us are more than disillusioned and uninspired by so many of our establishment politicians. I've heard the spin that their votes were not necessary, but this vote was close and could have passed without repub opposition. I'm tired of the status quo, its certainly not worked for us so far. I'm craving real leadership and a fight against the rightwing machine, constant caving to their every demand and insane idea is NOT doing it for me. They are going to have to do much better to get anything from me, but my vote. I hate to say this, but its a shame there is no viable third party in this Country it is sorely needed.

[dusty64]

44. The silence is deafening,

doesn't anyone have anything to say?

[sangh0]

45. Senator Kerry has something to say

Ignoring Other Candidates, Kerry Turns Focus on Bush
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/01/22/politics/22DEMS.html

"Moving up in the New Hampshire polls, Senator John Kerry ignored his rivals on Wednesday and blasted President Bush on health care and charged that new rules on overtime supported by the administration would bar many veterans from overtime pay.

Mr. Kerry said the president had rightly praised American troops and veterans in his State of the Union address. "But once again it's an example of a say-one-thing-and-do-another administration," he said, pointing to the overtime dispute...."

[beaconess]

47. about what?

Certainly you can't expect anyone to believe that Kerry, Edwards and Lieberman, who are out on the campaign trail bashing Bush day after day after day, aren't stepping up to the plate and speaking out?

Please.

[Nazgul35]

48. OK...let's try this again....

since it seemed to turn into who showed up thread....

Either one of these candidates could take the lead in getting the senate Dems to hold the line....

If they truely want to be the President of the United States, our Party's nominee.....if they tell us they will fight for us......and yet do nothing to intervene in this nonsense in the Senate.....

How are we supposed to believe they are going to be any different that what we have seen in the last four years?!

Did they really learn from Dean, Kucinich and Sharpton or are we just looking at a suit that they will shed after the nomination!!!

We can not afford to put another get along to go along Dem at the top of the ticket...This is a challange to show me that they themselves have what it takes to take the fight to Bush....if they do this thing, I would gladly vote for them in the primary?

I will be sending this along to their campaigns, NH newspaper letter to the editors and the Dean, Clark, Kucinich and Sharpton camps....let's see what happens....