What is Republican Lite?

[FromTheLeft]

I see a lot of posts lately stating that we should not take a certain stance on this issue or that because it would make us "Repub Lite". Is it just me does anyone else have certain issue that they actually agree with those damn repubs on.

Personally I want all gun control laws repealed and I want manditory service from every able bodied american.

I feel that our gun laws make it hard for law abidding citizens to have guns and does nothing to stop the criminals that want them. I support our party changing it's stance on gun control because it is right, in my opinion.

I feel that manditory service will force the 50% of our country that doesn't vote or work about our foreign policy when they do to start paying attention because it will be them fighting the wars, not just the poor. I believe that it will bring this country closer in ways that nothing else can. The rich and the poor, the straight and the gay, the men and the women, the black and the white, all doing PT in the rain at 4 am and learning to count on each other in the hardest of times.

Is their any issues that you think the democratic party is wrong on and do you think that we can change some of our platform with out becoming "Republican Lite"?

[beyurslf]

1. Dems are sometimes wrong, but it is because we take the too conservative

view. The Repubs are never right.

Anyone else smell a freeper rat?

[FromTheLeft]

4. This is the kind of thing I am talking about

Because I disagree with something on the democratic platform my loyalty is questioned. That sounds oddly framiliar like "if you disagree with what the president wants you are unAmerican..."

I feel that if their is something that I disagree with from any of my leaders that it is my not only my right, but my duty, to speak up about it whether it be an issue with *, Congress, the supreme court, DNC, or anyone else who is one of my leaders choosen or not.

[beyurslf]

7. Of course you have the right to your opinion.... no matter how wrong it is

This doesn't mean that we have to accept it here and it also doesn't mean that I shouldn't question whether you truly belong on this site. Experience shows that people with a couple dozens posts who put flamebait like this up are only here to disrupt.

Freepers come on here and spout off wild statements that they know we will disagree with. Then, to defend themselves, they did just what you did. Put words in our motuhs or quote ridiculous numbers backed by nothing. 50% of people here don't work? Please. That's as bad as the top 1% of wage earners pay 95% of all the taxes while the bottom 50% pay nothing.

And I never called you unAmerican. I believe dissent is the most American trait of all--but, again, that doesn't mean you should be allowed to post here.

[FromTheLeft]

14. Now your putting words in my mouth

I never said that you called me unAmerican. I said that the logic that brought you to the conclusion that I might be a freeper was similar to the logic that got me called unAmerican at an Anti-War rally prior to the last election. I did not spout off numbers and facts. And I agree with the great major of the veiws expressed here.

What I don't agree with is the idea when someone presents an unpopular veiw or veiws that they must be a freeper. Their is another thread running right now specifically dealing with gun control. Go read how a lot of other DUs feel about it. Go find the thread about how people are preparing for the worst and see how many of them have getting their hands on firearms as part of their survival kit.

Open your paradims about what the democratic party is. Some times weak planks in our platform need to be swapped out for stronger ones. Most of the time these should move in the opposite direction from what repubs want, but sometimes they shouldn't. NO ONE IS RIGHT ALL THE TIME. That includes me and that includes you but with bringing up ideas of what we think each other is doing wrong we cannot move forward or back. A static minorty is a dead minority.

[beyurslf]

16. Please explain the 50% of Americans who don't work, then. (Hint: it is in

your original post.)

[FromTheLeft]

20. I left out part of my sentence rushing to finish before a meeting

it was supposed to be worry. I edit it now thank you for noticing it.

[FromTheLeft]

21. Can't edit: editing period has expired. n/t

[MadHound]

2. Well, there are several things I think the Democrats should back

Things like universal health care, and the like. But I think that doing away with gun control is a losing idea in this country, since it has been polled time and again that gun control is favored by the majority of people in this country. And yes, banning certain guns does make them harder for criminals to get their hands on.

It also sounds like your "mandatory service" is more akin to a military draft, and quite frankly, I find that to be foolish also. There is no need to feed the military machine. In fact, one position I would like to see the Democrats get behind is to cut the US military might in half. I think that our army is doing just fine as is, since there is more spent on it than virtually the rest of the world combined, and it is more powerful than the next twenty eight military forces, again combined. Time for the citizens of the US to reap the benefits of that peace dividend.

Now if you are talking about mandatory service in some group like the Peace Corp, or Americorp, I have no problem with that.

[John Q. Citizen]

3. I see where you are coming from, From TheLeft, and I agree with

you, partially on the two issues you mention.

However, the term Republican lite isn't about specific issues but rather about the hypothesis that if the Dems embrace the Republican philosophy that it will some how make Dems more electable.

It was a Dem in the last congress, I believe, who introduced a bill to bring back the draft and the Repos wouldn't have anything to do with it, so it's not about specific issues.

As for the two issues you mentioned, I would point out that the constitution doesn't mention guns, but arms. It would follow that Americans could own nuclear weapons, grenade launchers, flame throwers, tanks, etc. I find it difficult to believe that the 1st congress believed individuals should be able to own cannons at their homes, armored warships at their docks, etc. However, I interpret the constitution to say that states can, in an organized militia, posses arms. It was a federalist/states rights issue. There was never anything in the constitution about personal gun ownership because it was a given that people owned rifles for hunting and personal protection, a non-issue.

If we were to repeal all gun laws, then violent felons could legally buy a machine gun off the shelf at Kmart. Or do we have just ONE gun law that says they can't? By the way, I live in Montana and we have one of the highest rates of personal gun ownership in the nation. At this point in time that doesn't seem to be a big problem here. But repealing all gun laws I can't go along with.

As for national service I am in favor of it, but i would like to see some options open besides just military service. After all, there are many ways to serve our country besides in the military.

I agree with your point that if all troops in the military were "national service" troops, then the likely hood that we would get ourselves into foreign adventure quagmires would be greatly reduced, and if we did then the duration would be much shorter.
That's what finally moved this nation's citizens to stop the Vietnam War, that and a free press.

[Jackie97]

5. I didn't join the Dem party because I liked donkies.

I didn't join because I wanted to be a jackass.

I joined because it's supposed to be the Progressive Party.

However, they often sell us out over the years in areas like abortion rights, gay rights, religion, wanting to have stupid wars, and other issues. They often do stuff like this to look like the more moderate form of the conservative. As a result, they're saying that conservative values are moral. I don't believe that most conservative ideas are moral, so I think the Democratic Party is making a mistake by doing stuff like this. We need to explain why our ideas are moral instead of apologizing for having them.

I will admit that I also have some conservative views on some subjects, but they're nothing that I think the Democratic Party would change or terribly abuse.

Why on earth are you for mandatory service? Do you not realize that it will be getting the rich as well as the poor into unjustified wars? If we went into justified wars, that would be one thing. Most of the time, we don't.

[FromTheLeft]

15. Manditory service

The reason that I feel that manditory service is a good idea is because I feel it will keep us out of unjustified war. If the rich folks children have just as good a chance at dying as the poor they might start to place a higher value on their childrens lives then they do on the oil to be gained in the middle east.

I also think that overtime it would make us all more empathetic and apathetic to those who come from different backgrounds in this country. When right now is a rich kid from the Hamptons ever going to spend actual time getting to know and care about a poor farm from the Midwest? Mandatory service forces them all together for years of their life. Giving them at least a glimps of each others problems.

[Jackie97]

19. It didn't help Israel.

I suppose you do have some good points though.

[FromTheLeft]

22. Israel is a very is in a very different situation then us...

They reason for manditory service is one of survival. The are locked in on all but one side by enemys that hate the fact that they exist. Everyone is Israel was already congisent and involved in the issues facing their country because they are under constant attack.

[Toots]

24. America experienced it's most Liberal "heyday" while we had a draft

Since the draft was eliminated America has taken a very hard right turn. Not saying the two are connected but it is something to think about. Not saying I favor going back to a draft but The poster does have a point. I am in complete disagreement on the gun issue though. I think we need to create some sanity in this country and the wild west mentality is not accomplishing that.

[mattclearing]

6. This is the second bizarre post about mandatory service in as many days.

Maybe I'm ignorant, but perhaps you can fill me in on why this is a good idea?

[IronLionZion]

29. because rich republican kids would have it too

:shrug:

Israel, both Koreas, India, and a lot of other countries have mandatory service for national defense reasons. An ROTC or cadet corps type of service doesn't sound so bad.

[Skittles]

8. I cannot agree with those lying, thieving fascist bastards on anything

no indeed

[FromTheLeft]

23. I have a small problem with that statement

The problem is the word cannot.

I can understand why you would not agree with anything that they say now. I don't agree with them 99% of the time. But say that you cannot agree with them leaves no room to move forward.

I can understand your hatred for them. But hatred blinds people and stops progress.

Do know what the difference between Martin Luther Kings and the black Panthers movements were? Hatred of those that hated them. The Black Panthers rejected all things that were white. While very vocal and s in the spotlight the Panthers did not nearly have the effect of MLK in both the black and white communities because who was willing to accept that this world was meant for everyone. Hatred of ideas and actions is unavoidable, hatred of people for having them is not.

[Robert Oak]

9. embracing free trade, privitization, deregulation and so forth

Clinton is Republican lite. He signed NAFTA and probably the worst
thing he did was push the China PNTR through...
this trade agreement is one of the reasons the US is in such trouble
today.

What the democrats have to do is LISTEN to some of the many economists
who are pointing to the major folly of current policy (globalization
and so forth) and take those insights and enact policy.

Basically free trade is not a win-win theory and clearly the evidence
is the US is in the lose lose category.

Stop the privitization of everything, especially things like water,
electricity and so forth.

Stop the privitizatio of the military.

repated the China PNTR consider leaving the WTO and modify the NAFTA agreement.

Republicans have abandoned a balanced budget and the democrats should
take this as their mandate...it's good fiscal policy.

Democrats need a policy to get corporate lobbyists and lobbyists in general out of washington! We need some major election financing reform or something because they are constantly campaigning and requiring the big bucks from big corporations, who in turn expect something for their money. I have yet to understand the difference
between a campaign contribution and a bribe in the US system.

Democrats could modify somewhat their platform on abortion to
push through prevention and real prevention, such as availability to
birth control, mandatory education on how to prevent the spread of STDs and avoid pregnancy and instead of that goddamn abstinence bullshit, how about talking about the mating bond and the powerful
emotions that go with that...which are generated by sex...why they
call it making love...it often does "make love" and is a very powerful force not to be played with for many people...

that one never comes up ...we just get "oh you're a bad person if you fuck" so of crap versus some honest, in depth discussion about the power of sex.

But, never never say they are going to overturn Roe V Wade...that's just caving.

I'm sorry but the corporate new world order is out of control...
and there does need to be a mix of government intervention, programs and private industry...but seemingly no one can get it together to
get a mix...a good mix that gives opportunity yet keeps the middle class and society strong.

Oops: Kill the war machine. I'm sorry but the US spends so much money on military budget in comparison to anyone else in the world..
I want to see a member nation "world military cops" program and not
this "US alone" killer military machine. It would also stop military actions like going into Iraq with no world consensus that it was the right thing to do.

[liberal43110]

10. I smell a rat too

[Jackie97]

11. Of course.

Lots of conservatives around here pretending to be what they're not. Don't know why they care to do that.

Not that this author is a conservative. I just wanted to mention that.

[RealDems]

12. A lot of it doesn't even have to do with issues

There is a difference between moderate Democrats, who may be entirely sincere and committed Democrats -- and those unprincipled sell-out Democrats who go along with the Republican platform because they are afraid of Republican electoral gains. I have no use for those people.

[flaminbats]

13. manditory service is another word for slavery..

Republicans support slavery, a Republican-lite never opposes it.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

17. It goes something like this:

[Armstead]

18. Gun Control

In the scheme of things, that's a loser issue for the Democrats. It's a distraction, and is rather useles beyond the point of obvious safeguards that most people could agree on.

[IronLionZion]

25. you can support gun rights and the draft while being a Democrat

as long as you do it the Democratic way, not the dishonest, self-serving, hypocritical, Republican way.

There are plenty of Democrats in rural states that support gun rights and I think Charlie Rangel was supporting a fair draft.

Republicans want to pretend they are for gun rights, as long as poor and black urban people can't get them. And they are all about drafting poor people as long as the rich ones can get deferrments. If you support this then you are Republican-lite and an asshole.

But if you do it the Democratic way, then what's the problem? :shrug: ignore some of the whiners on this board. they like to attack other Democrats cause they have nothing better to do with their unhappy lives. It's like masturbation for them - it feels good at first but in the end they're just screwing themselves.

:hi:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

26. Pandering to the right. It works so well.

The DLC formula for defeat.

[bush_is_wacko]

27. Partial birth abortion is my anti-liberal pet peeve. Gun control?

I could go either way on that one. There are certain weapons I don't believe the public needs access to, but "Guns don't kill people, people do," is a pretty true statement IMO.

I DO support the right to choose, just not the right to choose to murder a baby that would be perfectly viable and could survive in ANY neo-natal unit in the United States at the moment.

The practice for all intents and purpose has already been "banned" by any self respecting doctor anyway.

I don't buy the argument this will lead to the banning of ALL abortion.

There ARE viable options to this practice and for the most part, I think they are already being used.

[WMliberal]

28. IMO, "Repub Lite" is not for lay folks like us, but for elected democrats.

Disagreeing with the party platform on two little issues like the ones you described doesn't even make one a Rethug Lite, it makes them NORMAL. I am yet to meet anyone, even here, who agrees with every single thing on the party platform.

Being a Rethug Lite is about a pattern of behavior and a PR problem. Lieberman is a good example, Zell Miller an even better one. The only time they ever appear to expend their political capital on an issue, it's one favored by the Rethugs. When they vote with the Dems, they tend to not be the ones who fought tooth and nail for it and try to keep it on the DL. Why don't they do it the other way around? Dissent from the party quietly and expend political capital on issues when our party needs them. This would help their image within the party, but they don't do it.

Rethug Lite is also a revealing term about the nature of the electoral process. Terms like this are evidence that elections really are just popularity contests. Sure Lieberman has a long track record in the party, but his actions in recent years have branded him with this negative image that is VERY hard to shake off. Until he shakes it off, he's going to be a flame topic around here.