When is Al Franken going to learn you can't be nice to repugs?

[Democrat 4 Ever]

He keeps dragging one after another of these repugs on the show with the false assumption the repugs are as interested in a honest and open discussion as he is. I don't even know who the last guest was but he/she/it was totally unbelievable. Told lie after lie, smeared Hillary, Bill, bragged about what a joke the Arkansas Project was, spew vile and hate with every word, rude, condescending and completely hijacked AAR for a few minutes before Al cut the person off. Usually these people are just pathetic morons but there was a special viciousness to this asshole.

Democrats have GOT to learn we are not playing with people who want to engage in fair discourse. They don't mind spreading lies, you can not dazzle them with facts and logic - they spread lies and they are very, very, very good at it. This giving them air time on "our" network has got to stop. Those stupids remarks will be repeated ad infinitum on every neocon TV and radio station forever. Enough, Al. If you can't shut them up then don't ask them on.

Right now I'm as pissed at Al as I am the idiot he invited on the show.

[BrklynLiberal]

1. After writing Al a really hateful note about Medved I finally turned him

off and am streaming Tom Hartmann. I will turn on AAR when Mark and Marc come on for Randi. I agree,I cannot stand him sitting there and listening to all the crap that the RW pukes are vomiting out. If I wanted to listen to that crap, I would listen to Limpballs or FAUX News.

If you are interested in trying that alternative, go here.
http://www.tomhartmann.com/showlisten.shtml

[deutsey]

5. I'm confused as to why Hartmann isn't on AAR anyway.

Was he offered a spot but turned it down? Or was he not even considered?

[BrklynLiberal]

9. My guess. He wanted to be more independent. He does not seem

to need the AAR affiliation to get his ideas across.
Also. His time is 12-3, which is the same as AL Franken's who was AAR's biggest name when they started. So there may have been a conflict there.

[deutsey]

11. I kind of figured that too...still, he's much better than most of the AAR

hosts (and I like them all, for the most part).

It's just too bad that Hartmann isn't able to get a wider, national outlet.

[BrklynLiberal]

14. I think he does OK. Website, Streaming listeners, books, lectures.

WhiteRose archives his shows. I think it was the 12-3 time slot that killed the deal.

Thom Hartmann is a Project Censored-award-winning, best-selling author, and the host of a nationally syndicated progressive daily radio talk show, heard across America via the Sirius Satellite Radio system, on radio stations coast to coast, in 29 states on CRN, and worldwide on RadioPower.org, weekdays from Noon to 3 PM Eastern Time.

* Welcome to our most recent affiliates: WRVC in Huntington, WV; WDEV in Central Vermont; WGAT in Johnson City, TN; and KBBR in Coos Bay, Oregon.
* Leonardo DiCaprio makes web movie ("Global Warning") inspired by one of Thom's books.
* The Fall '04 Arbitrons are coming in! On Clear Channel's WTKG, Grand Rapids MI, Thom's show has taken his time slot from a 0.8 share in Fall '03 to a 2.1 share in Fall '04 (Phase 1, adults 35+).
* Thom's show is now PodCast daily from the White Rose Society site.
* Click here for Thom's most recent writings.
* Leonardo DiCaprio makes web movie inspired by one of Thom's books
* To call the program when Thom is on the air live (noon-3 PM ET), call [phone] or, from outside the US, [phone].
* C-SPAN offers DVD of Thom's 3-hour October 29, 2004 national program.
* Six live webstreams of Thom's program available for PC and Mac listeners!
* New movie in national release"This Land Is Your Land" features Thom.
* Cable Radio Network now carries Thom's program into 26 million homes across the USA via cable TV systems and affiliated radio stations on CRN Channel 4 from noon-3 pm ET (9-noon PT), and on CRN Channel 1 from 1-2:30 pm ET (10-11:30 PT).
* Thom wins "Project Censored" 2004 award
* Thom named one of top ten "New Voices in Talk Radio" by industry publication Radio Ink magazine
* Random House/Harmony publishes Thom's new book, "What Would Jefferson Do? A Return To Democracy."
* Thom named to "Talk Radio's Heavy Hundred" by industry publication Talkers Magazine.
* His Holiness Pope John Paul II, who openly condemns Bush's stands on capital punishment and the war in Iraq, invites Thom to talk. A year later, His Holiness The Dalai Lama invites Thom to his home in Dharamsala, India, for a week (tapes of the discussions - "The Synthesis Dialogues" - are available at New Dimensions.)

"The Thom Hartmann Show is making nice progress in Grand Rapids, and WTKG had a big jump in male listeners in the 35-54 demographic, increasing 280% in just one book. To me it shows clearly that liberal talk radio can be successful, even in a very conservative area like Grand Rapids ."
--Phil Tower, WTKG, Clear Channel in Grand Rapids, MI

"There's a buzz growing around nationally syndicated talk show host Thom Hartmann, whose daily program is drawing high marks by those who are on the lookout for talk radio's "Great Liberal Hope."
--Talkers Magazine

[deutsey]

21. For himself, sure he does well.

I've listened to Hartmann since he was on I.E. America Radio (now defunct). He got some limited exposure then, but like Peter Werbe, he isn't a household name.

I'd just like to see his brand of radio talk show reach more people on easily accessible radio stations around the country.

Like Fatboy's show does.

[BrklynLiberal]

32. It seems that whenever a Liberal goes on Clear CHannel it kills the

Conservative Talk Shows

The Fall '04 Arbitrons are coming in! On Clear Channel's WTKG, Grand Rapids MI, Thom's show has taken his time slot from a 0.8 share in Fall '03 to a 2.1 share in Fall '04 (Phase 1, adults 35+).

[deutsey]

42. Yay

:thumbsup:

[itzamirakul]

28. I know that Al is still living on the name he made on SNL and also with

his book...but to tell you the truth, I honest to God don't even remember him from SNL.

And his jokes now just fall pathetically flat. Katherine, his co-host is almost as obnoxious with her phony big laugh at his not-funny comments. But, I listen anyway because I am so thirsty for Progressive viewpoints on the news.

Yesterday he had G. Gordon Liddy , one of the criminals from the Nixon era, on and the guy made Al sound like a fool. Liddy disputed the Gannon story with such ludicrous remarks that he could have been relating a fairytale. At one point Liddy pointed out that rightwing bloggers had gotten Dan Rather busted but, he asked Al, "Where are YOUR troops?" when it comes to the Gannon or Brit Hume situations.Where, he asked were the leftwing bloggers out to destroy Gannon and Hume? Al cleared his throat for the thousand and tenth time and blustered a non-answer. It made me sick when all he needed to say was, "Our bloggers are not getting the media attention that the rightwing bloggers get."

Al says he is good friends with Liddy and sort of looks to Liddy as a mentor. He mentioned that Liddy was Jewish as if that made everything ok. Well, hell, I'm, black and I really don't care for Condi Rice or Colin Powell or Clarence Thomas. I mean, is race/religion a reason for having these rightwingers on the show?

[NYCGirl]

47. BTW, Franken's latest book, "Lying Liars, etc." (he's written a number

of books) was the #2 best selling book the year of release (Hillary Clinton's book was #1). And I remember that "Rush Limbaugh is a Big Fat Idiot" was also a huge best seller. So his books do amazingly well.

[itzamirakul]

49. Yeah, I knew the name of the "Lying Liars..." book but

I must admit that I was not aware that he has written other books. Thanks for letting me know, I will be on the lookout for them.

I do not take any props away from him in that arena.

My comments were on his talents and abilities as a radio host, which leave a lot to be desired, but I listen to his show anyway because he is all that I've got at that time of day.

There are times, though that he becomes so unable to defend a point or becomes so obsequious with a rw guest or he becomes just so plain obnoxious that I am FORCED to just turn the radio off for awhile.

Was he REALLY funny on SNL? I swear, I don't remember him from that show.

Frankly, I can think of several hosts I would prefer in his place" Mike Malloy for starters....

[BrklynLiberal]

10. BTW. Hartmann had a contest, and the winning answer was MarkTwain.

[deutsey]

13. What was the question?

As my avatar attests, I'm a big Twainian and something of a Twain scholar.

[BrklynLiberal]

19. He sang an alternative verse to the Battle Hymn of the Republic

and asked what famous American wrote it.

[deutsey]

25. Ahhh! I wish I had heard that! I woulda won, I tell ya!

It's one of my favorite Twain writings:

Mine eyes have seen the orgy of the launching of the Sword;
He is searching out the hoardings where the stranger's wealth is stored;
He hath loosed his fateful lightnings, and with woe and death has scored;
His lust is marching on.

I have seen him in the watch-fires of a hundred circling camps;
They have builded him an altar in the Eastern dews and damps;
I have read his doomful mission by the dim and flaring lamps --
His night is marching on.

I have read his bandit gospel writ in burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with my pretensions, so with you my wrath shall deal;
Let the faithless son of Freedom crush the patriot with his heel;
Lo, Greed is marching on!"

We have legalized the strumpet and are guarding her retreat;*
Greed is seeking out commercial souls before his judgement seat;
O, be swift, ye clods, to answer him! be jubilant my feet!
Our god is marching on!

In a sordid slime harmonious Greed was born in yonder ditch,
With a longing in his bosom – and for others' goods an itch.
As Christ died to make men holy, let men die to make us rich –
Our god is marching on.

* NOTE: In Manila the Government has placed a certain industry under the protection of our flag. (M.T.)

[BrklynLiberal]

27. That is what he sang! You would have won!

Mine eyes have seen the orgy of the launching of the Sword;
He is searching out the hoardings where the stranger's wealth is stored;
He hath loosed his fateful lightnings, and with woe and death has scored;
His lust is marching on.

On EDIT! It sure is appropriate for these days!!!

[InvisibleTouch]

44. That's great!

Thanks for posting these lyrics. How very appropriate!

[ieoeja]

48. The Vote to Annex The Philippines

A bad turning point for the United States. From defender of the Third World to imperial overlord by a vote margin of ONE.

[DaveinMD]

2. it allows him

to debunk them. He's done well with the other guests.

[deutsey]

3. I guess he is, like a true old-style liberal, trying to play fair and have

dialouge and debate with his "worthy" opponents.

Like Daschle did, he seems to think that partisan politics today is like a hockey game, when it's become more like brutal jungle warfare.

[BrainRants]

4. A little context, he is in the lions den of the Repug convention.

I don't like listening to those knuckleheads either, but you must give him at least a little credit for having the 'nads to show up there.

I'd like to see Insannity, O Liely, or Fatboy show up at a DNC convention...on the air!

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I give him credit

but he repeats their talking points, he needs to undesrtand he needs to REFRAME the issues... and he is very poor at doing that... facts don't matter, just reframing

[BrainRants]

16. I agree, he needs work on re-framing...

and we as a party need to step up to the plate as well and begin ACTING like an opposition party. It will be important to frame debates in terms that Joe/Jane sixpack can digest.

The Repug technique is to throw out a hailstorm of bullshit when you're talking with them, that you wind up debating the bullshit and stray from framing your position.

That dickhead that was just on before Joe Coneson needed a swift punch in the mouth.
:spank:

[Griffy]

6. Al is good for more moderates..would you rather ppl listening to lintball?

look.. we are the people who believe in the truth.. we have different opininons as to what it means and what to do about it... but we are up against a propaganda machine and a neocon fascist regime! Al has his moments and has some great guest I do want to hear from. but hes no Ed Shultz!

[BrklynLiberal]

8. Great points above. For the more moderates, he is a GREAT personality.

Guess I am too far left to listen to those Repukes. But he does serve a certain audience, so his madness does have a method to it. Guess there are some people who would listen to him and perhaps be convinced, where they might not even listen to some of the more radical leftwing talkers.

[FreedomAngel82]

12. I can't stand listening to them either

Even if Al is there. I do remember hearing about him being at the convention. I give him credit though for trying and being nice. Give me Rhandi Rhodes and Mike Malloy though. I love how they handle freeps. They know how to do it. :toast:

[safi0]

15. Personally I like Franken

He can be a little too nice sometimes to these repukes in that way I think hes a little too idealistic and really wants to have honest debate and he tries to do it in his shows. Plus hes got to learn how to talk to Republicans when hes a Senator in 4 years

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. How you talk to a repule? Especially a true believer?

You don't and that is the lesson he needs to learn.

[BrklynLiberal]

23. He better get a lot more hard-assed if he is going to face these guys in

a real campaign. You are absolutely right! He is very bright, but cannot beem to bring himself to get real mean.

[deutsey]

17. How's he doing with this conservative apologist for Gannon?

I've only heard part of the show, but is sounds like his guest keeps framing the debate by blathering about the guy on the left who gets a daypass.

Has Franken said anything about the emerging evidence that Gannon had a hardpass and was even in the pressroom before Talon news was even created? Has he tried to frame the debate around why the WH has changed its story (ie, lied) about Gannon a number of times?

That's what is frustrating about Franken: he's either uninformed or he doesn't think these facts have any weight.

[DaveinMD]

22. yes

he mentioned the pass before Talon news. He's handling him well.

[shance]

20. Al seems to think he can change some of these individuals

if he's just nice enough and 'understanding' enough.

I would disagree.

The problem is, kindness, altruism and compassion are values they don't respect, at least I have never seen any narcissistic individual ever change or authentically respond by someone showing them compassion, or listening to them. In fact, such individuals seem to squander it every time, ridicule it, exploit it, and it seems to embolden their fantasy of the world and of themselves. They don't seem to trust any forms of kindness.

Narcissists don't seem to like or respect compassion, unless they are behind bars and want you to help them get out, and could care less about empathy, and or any kind of tenderness.

What's interesting is how our own narcissism can play in by refusing to acknowledge to ourselves that this is how these individuals respond in life.

By thinking we can change them, and we can be diplomatic and understanding, we are *almost* being as narcissistic as they are, because we are assuming we can change them, when they have absolutely no interest in changing. On the contrary, they will chew you up and spit you out in the process.

I don't know why they are the way they are, other than they don't trust anyone, and Im specifically addressing severely narcissistic people. They have resolved its an eat or be eaten society, because that is how they respond to all of life's situations, so they conclude everyone else certainly reacts in the same manner.

The only way I have seen to handle such individuals is very carefully and with very tough, iron clad boundaries, and the minute they spot a weakness you better buckle down, because they will keep the weakness on file.

[DaveinMD]

24. he's not trying to change them

he's showing the audience how stupid these conservatives are by refuting their points.

[htuttle]

30. But he's not getting much of a chance to do so

He lets his right wing guests talk over him. When he tries to rebut -- the winger starts shouting over him again.

I don't know how much more of this I can take. It's about all I can do to keep from shouting at the radio.

14 more minutes to go.

Damn, though. I bet Randi's a rerun today, too.


GAAAAAAAAH!

[BrklynLiberal]

35. Marc Maron and Mark Riley are subbing for her today.

[DaveinMD]

39. I thought this last segment was good

I thought Al showed the guy to be a hypocrite.

We get Ed Schultz next down here.

[BrklynLiberal]

26. We have to always remember the story of the scorpion and the turtle.

They are the scorpions and always will be. No matter how much we may want them to be willing to change who and what they are..they will always be what they are, and would be willing to die with us, in order to take us down.

[safi0]

31. Conason just killed the stupid bastard

He said the sign of winning an arguement is when the opponent changes the subject because the guy started talking about Barney Frank

[Shopaholic]

40. Joe was great today--

he stopped the discussion dead in its tracks. :bounce:

[charlie]

34. Yeah, I think you're probably right

Al had a hand in flipping Arianna. He might think it's repeatable and not a lucky blue-moon fluke.

[InvisibleTouch]

45. "Kindness, altruism and compassion are values they don't respect"

You hit it dead-on.

I don't listen to radio, but I agree that we can't approach the rethugs as though they were rational people who just happen to have a different take on the world. They want to destroy us, let's mince no words - and to that end, they're willing to tell any lie, invent any smear, sink to any depths, twist any fact, and resort to any crime. The beauty of it is, we don't need to use those tactics. All we have to do is keep hammering them with the truth. And to be decisive, succinct, take no bullshit, call them on all their lies, and yes, be verbally vicious right back to them. That's the only thing that makes an impression.

Think schoolyard bully. You don't get anywhere by trying to make nice. He'll only back off when he realizes you can defend yourself. And it's the only thing that'll gain respect from uncomitted bystanders, too.

[zulchzulu]

29. If you listen to the whole interview, you see Al corners them...

Listen to the whole interview. He rope-a-dopes them into being the asses that they are. I find it funny.

[safi0]

38. When the guy dissed David Brock

Franken went nuts, hes toasting the guy now. Just absolutelt toasting the idiot now

[DU GrovelBot]

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[JFK Dem]

36. Free Speech will win the day

It's important that the "right" gets its time on the radio - the more middle America hears from these morons, the better it is for us.

[rniel]

37. Just listening to this

has got me so fired up I feel like throwing my computer monitor out the window and stomping some ass.

[burythehatchet]

41. clam down

and wait. You're not alone.

[DireStrike]

43. NEVER. Or, maybe after his ratings go through the floor.

Franken is a megaphone for RW frames and talking points.

[retread]

46. I found these last two shows to be absolutely brutal. I could not

force myself to listen. The only news I watch or hear comes from Air America, the Daily Show and on a rare occasion, Oberman. I have canceled the local daily newspaper and subscribe to the local weekly progressive and the local African-American newspapers. I don't want to listen to these evil, lying sacks-of-shit.
Air time is rare for truly progressive, liberal voices and to use that air time to allow these fascists to air their views is a betrayal.

[John_H]

50. I can't listen to him, because he

symbolizes everything that disgusts me about the way we fight rethugs. "We're oh so much more civilized, more refined, more elegent in our gramatical constructions and, most of all, more clever at every level--and eventually the 'mercun people will recognize this. the GOP will then hang themselves with their boorish hate."

Guess what, folks?

[mandyky]

51. I did not listen to Al F either Thurs or Friday

I listened to about 5 minutes Thurs when he had G on and that was it.

I am glad I did not listen, last night after the debate on CSpan the guy who introduced Santorum (at this CPAC thing) made so many mistatements about Dems I almost got physically ill. I turned the channel after about 5 minutes. These people are nuts. I know we need to know what they are saying, but I can't listen to it.