17% of Americans believe they will escape death

[ochazuke]

Yes, via the 'rapture', they will be swept up to heaven when the end of the world comes, which will be any second now.

(Just heard this on BBC).

QUESTION: Can anyone tell me about the age breakdown of this 17%????

I mean, if most of them are over 60, like Bill O'Reilly listeners, then I can rest easy knowing that the world will be a really great place in a couple of decades when these idiots are dead and O'Reilly's ilk are off the air.

But, if a lot of 'em are young, we'd better hold on for a long, hard slough as you know anyone incredibly stupid enough to believe in the Rapture isn't going to give up on the idea as they get older.

[imenja]

1. I don't believe it

I'd want to see the survey and methodology. The Brits think we're a nation of idiots. While we have our problems, I do not believe 17% think they will "escape death."

[amjucsc]

4. The British may have just found all the proof they need... (nt)

[RadiDem]

6. Huh ? We're not a nation of idiots ?

More surprising perhaps are the large numbers (albeit not majorities) who believe the following claims not made by the president and which virtually no experts believe to be true:


-- 44 percent actually believe that several of the hijackers who attackedthe U.S. on September 11 were Iraqis (up significantly from 37% in November).


http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/050218/nyf057_1.html

only 44% idiots ?

[imenja]

8. you're right, it's much higher

and it's not limited to the right wing.
One thing people do know, however, is that they will die one day. Perhaps you buy into this notion of English superiority, but I don't. At least we don't spend billions of dollars to support a parasitic royal family.

[ochazuke]

10. Wrong

You would think that people know that, but I have met a number of Americans who don't think so.

A Brit I heard once said that Americans act like or think they will live forever.

In addition to the 17% or whatever it is that think God will save them, there are lots of people who think science will save them. A friend of mine who is very rational thinks like this. I remember a stock analyst I saw on the Nightly Business Report a few years ago talking about biotech. He said "virtual immortality by 2008".

I gotta go. My telomeres are falling off.

[skids]

21. Ahh, another doomsayer.

While I doubt I'll be escaping death, I do look forward to the possibility of living to an unprecedented old age, and without the associated discomfort.

However I don't think many people who turn to science for longevity rather than the "rapture" really believe death will never find them. They know full well that accidents happen all the time.

Just so you know, just shouting "telomeres" doesn't work in this argument anymore. So if you're looking to crap all over someone's parade, you'll have to update your rhetoric.

http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/

[ochazuke]

32. Only in America

Only in America would one be called a doomsayer for saying that you are going to die. The subject of death is taboo in this country. You mustn't tell your children. We must be egomaniacs.

Really the technology isn't relevant to my point. I'm sure if something comes of the very interesting research into aging, it'll happen in America.

I doubt I'll live to see it though.

[skids]

37. Oh, come on.

You can't honestly read my comment and take away what you did from it.

My point, obviously, was that people that hold hope for anti-aging technology aren't going to be part of that 17% -- because they know they will be hit by a bus eventually.

My other point is that it is attitudes like yours that keep people from thinking outside the box, or in this case, thinking outside the coffin. People should not be ridiculed for wanting a longer life, especially in a day and age when it takes so much of your life to situate yourself where you can concentrate on making society better, as opposed to how to pay next month's rent.

You can go ahead and ridicule the rapture people all you want, though.

[bobbieinok]

64. so did I until....

"...I do look forward to the possibility of living to an unprecedented old age, and without the associated discomfort."

I had retirement nicely planned to spend significant time in Germany every other year......then 2+ years ago I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and then last year a slipped disk

no one in my family had this.....doctors don't seem to know what causes it or how/if it can be arrested......so I walk with a cane and on bad days with a walker....and sometimes it's painful to walk or to sleep......and would I rather have difficulty in walking or in using my hands?.....

hope and plan but things happen to throw you off the track

[Mr Creosote]

23. And the US President is?

"At least we don't spend billions of dollars to support a parasitic royal family".

Are you sure? At least our parasites are harmless.

[imenja]

62. they support a prime minister too

as well as a monarchy. They support both. Are you, like Alexander Hamilton, a monarchist? Bush's is an imperial presidency after all. Does that satisfy your imperial desires?

[Stella_Artois]

60. Neither does Britain

Billions of dollars ? Is this George Bushonomics ?

They cost £36 million a year. Tourism brings in £7 billion (iirc). Think they are going for the weather ?

[imenja]

63. have you looked at their total wealth?

The queen is the richest person in Britain. That is all taxpayers money.

[Stella_Artois]

65. It isn't, and she isn't.

She doesn't actually own much as such, most of her wealth is theoretical and could never be converted into hard cash. Whatever was bought out of public money was mainly built / bought hundreds of years ago.

Also, she isn't the richest person in Britain, she is in fact ranked at number 177 at a worth of £250 million.

I suggest you check the Times Rich List 2004

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/richlist/start/0,,2004-1,00.html

Search for Queen. J K Rowling is richer than her, placed at 91.

[imenja]

67. I'll take your word for it

The difference is that Rowling earned hers. The Queen did not.
I assume you're an Englishman who is happy with your royal family. That's great. If you find it acceptable, that's your business. Do us a favor please though, can't you manage to keep their personal melodramas confined to your own press. It's not like we actually give a damn.

[ochazuke]

12. You're probably right.

It's probably more like 20%.

[imenja]

14. so I guess conservatives are right

when they say the left hates America. I know it's not the left generally, since I don't, but obviously far too many do. I never believed that was possible until I starting reading some of these discussion boards. That's not a winning political ideology.

[ochazuke]

18. So, let's see...

I guess, if you were in 1930s Germany and you attacked the Nazis, you hated Germany. If you were in 1930s Japan, and you attacked the rightist Army factions, you hated Japan.

Wrong. If you attacked those fascists, you probably LOVED Germany or Japan.

Yes, I am equating the Rapturists with Nazis and militarists. If we don't stop them soon, America will go down the same road that Germany and Japan did.

Just last night, I saw a rebroadcast of a Charlie Rose interview of Arthur Miller in which the late playright drew this lesson from German history. He pointed out how civilized Germany was. You'd have never thought Nazism possible.

There is no appeasing the rightists in this country. The more power they get, the more they want, the more they abuse the power they got. After all, their whole psychology is about domination and humiliation of the weak, even as they claim to be the victims.

Our history is, as Western nations go, rather LESS democratic than most, rather LESS respectful of justice than most. Were there ever slaves in Britain? Did the German people commit genocide to establish their country? No and No. Yet we had slaves, and rubbed out the native cultures of the American peoples.

If it weren't such a lie, why do you think they made you say in grade school "with liberty and justice for all".

No, people who love America will fight to send our fascists to the fringes of society by calling them what they are in a clear, confident, and convincing voice.

Politics is war.

[LiberalFighter]

43. I don't have to like Bush to love my country!

Button I have.

[imenja]

51. people here have not simply said they oppose the right

they have instead said this is a nation of idiots. The two points are hardly the same. Why they consider themselves exempt from this stigma, I have no idea. The Brits certainly don't excuse them.

It's funny how no one believes Americans actually voted for Bush, people don't believe he would even earn 10% approval in an honest poll, yet they are quick to dismiss the entire nation as hopelessly ignorant. Something doesn't add up here.

[donheld]

16. I'm really surprised the number isn't higher

I've been around some of those people all my life. With all the religious BS that's going on in this country, i really would think it would be much higher than 17%

[imenja]

17. so how does the rapture preclude death?

I thought the idea was that when Christ returned, we would all ascend into the kingdom of heaven and live in a sort of eternal nirvana. I didn't think it meant we would never die. Rather that our souls would live on.

[ochazuke]

19. Rapturism is different

The believers go up. If they're driving at the time, the car goes flying off the road and kills a non-believer kid playing in his yard. If the pilots of your plane are believers, they go up and you guys in coach die.

It's all preceded by the Jews getting back their homeland, though of course they all go to hell after Armageddon.

These ideas are so crazy, I would never believe that sane people would hold them. It's like coming upon an island where adults all believed in Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny.

But humans aren't about reason and open-mindedness. Don't ever think they are. Here in the Kansas City area, there is a strong movement to teach Creationism in the schools. They say "evolution is a theory, not a fact", thus demonstrating not only their ignorance of the facticity of evolution, but of the meaning of the word "theory" in science.

We who value truth, the scientific method, Enlightenment values and the rest of the whole LIBERAL THING had better get vocal, annoying even. NOW.

Express your opinion, put the know-nothings in their place. Let them know that they are the next species to become extinct. Reason won't work, maybe ostracism will.

[imenja]

41. Revelations

if I get some time, I'm going to read Revelations to see what it says about this. I assume they must base their ideas on the Bible.
I never was taught that the Apocalypse was imminent in Catholic School. These ideas all assume the Rapture will occur in this lifetime.
I know about the crazy Christian ideas about Israel and Palestine. Christians are now the single largest contributers to the American Israeli Defense fund. It's an unholy alliance, because what the Right predicts is the ultimate destruction and eternal damnation of all Jews. Doing everything possible to hurry along the Apocalypse doesn't seem very Christian to me.

[alcuno]

45. My Catholic Bible says that Revelations is an excellent example of

Apocalyptic literature - quite popular at the time it was written. I believe that there is a book out entitled, "The Apocalyptic President." It speaks to the idea that it probably is not a good idea to have a president who is an end-timer with his finger on the nuclear trigger. Self-fulfilling prophecy and all that.

[knight_of_the_star]

54. At least Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny

Don't encourage starting apocalyptic wars with other nations to make them drop by and leave presents and eggs.

[donheld]

44. Tell that to the bible beaters

i grew up with, they expect to see themselves leaving the ground and physically ascending into heaven. I didn't say it made sense, i just say they believe it.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

47. Most Christian churches don't believe in the rapture. n/t

[Zhade]

55. Probably because it's a heretical 1800s unsanctioned teaching.

NT!

[Mr Creosote]

24. Best way to test it out

bring the soldiers home, and send the 17% to Iraq in their stead. I bet, however stupid they be, most of them would suddenly decide that they aren't immortal after all.
Hurrah!

[imenja]

39. ooh, I like that

Let's make that official!

[LinuxInsurgent]

34. believe it...this is an American Taliban nation...

if the world laughs at Afghanistan for the utterly ridiculous interpretation of Islam that is the Taliban...the same disdain is thrown at the United States, the most fundamentalist Christian nation in the world.

Afghanistan and the U.S. are too socially-screwed up nations.

[aquart]

2. George Bernard Shaw said, paraphrasing,

that his problem with Christians wasn't that they didn't fear death, but that they refused to die on any terms whatsoever.

[rawtribe]

3. Are they sure

it's only 17% after all we are a nation of nut jobs!

:scared:

[jdots]

5. Repukes live long and prosper ( they have health insurance)

keeping that W.W.2 attitude alive.The Rapture will take them to that big golf condo where it's all caucasion doddlers looking for a parking space in the shade.

[JohnnyRingo]

7. I'll take my chances with the giant lion-headed scorpions

...If the alternative is eternity with the likes of Bill Bennet and Pat Robertson.

[arewenotdemo]

58. you people crack me up

:bounce:

[Why Syzygy]

9. Got to believe it's the older ones

no facts, just speculation.

This whole rapture thing was crammed down my throat as a teen in the late sixties.

It can scare the bezeebus out of someone (that's the point I think), but after examining the context of these claims, as an adult, I totally and utterly dispute them (as well as the rest of the beliefs along these lines).

I read recently (trying to remember where), that this whole "concept" was thought up and propagated in the 19th century by two itinerant preachers.

Now I want to find that information again. This has gotten out of hand.

The RAPTURE is not foreign policy. Is it?

[ochazuke]

11. Hope you're right. Die old rapturists, die!

Yes, it's a 19th century idea, derived from a rather silly interpretation of the Bible.

YES, it is foreign policy. Ironic that American fundies support Israel so the Jews can play their part in prophesy, i.e. go to hell.

Worse, it's environmental policy, too. See James Watt. See reporting of Bill Moyers. His recent article "There's No Tomorrow" is great. Google it if you haven't read it.

GOD SAVE US FROM THE 'CHRISTIANS'!

[Why Syzygy]

13. That's where I read it!

Bill Moyers' article! He is a treasure.

[verdalaven]

26. I thought the rapture was made up by a priest

about 300 years ago and the concept quickly dropped by the church at the time, then in the mid 1800s the idea was picked up again by a lawyer doing time for fraud. He found god in prison and through reading something(priest's writings?) he decided the Rapture was truth, wrote about it, peddled it like snake oil, and for some unknown reason it took hold.

I no longer consider myself a christian, but even when I did I didn't believe in any of that stuff thanks to a terrific pastor I had when I was young who taught us that the "devil" comes to us in many disguises, including those of bad ideas.

[hatrack]

49. It was a guy name Darby around 1835-40, I believe

He just made it up out of whole cloth, and the only thin thread connecting this nonsense to the Bible is a a single line in Revelations.

Somehow this has metastisized into America's biggest and most popular "Christian" death cult.

[Zhade]

56. Yes, the "Death Eaters" love their heretical "Rapture" teachings.

NT!

[arewenotdemo]

59. What about good ideas

epiphanies, revelations and the like?

Muses can be awfully devilish.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

15. I would have guessed 10%. n/t

[tavalon]

20. What a coincidence!

I just read a survey that said that 17% of americans are utter morons and can't be relied on to walk and chew gum at the same time. Ya think it might be the same 17%? Hmmmmm?

[ladjf]

22. The percentage of morons in America is MUCH higher than

17%. 59 million voted for Bush,a very dumb move as time will prove.

[tavalon]

28. I know

I was just being a smart ass.

[deutsey]

25. The "Left Behind" series of books and movies were huge sellers

"Evangelists" like Jack Van Impe are all making lots of money selling their "end times" videos and books. As he has since the '70s, Hal Lindsay is still saying the end is nigh, only now he preaches this on his TBN show. I saw a couple Sundays ago on TV a minister preaching to a large local congregation and he assured everyone there that these are indeed the end times and that the Rapture is close at hand.

While disturbing, I don't see where 17% is such an unbelievable number. There is a huge sub-culture out there of Christians who firmly believe the Rapture is going to happen in their lifetime.

[ochazuke]

31. Right.

Delusional: believing in the Rapture
Delusional: believing there aren't many people who believe in the Rapture.

At first, they seem different delusions, but I wonder if both aren't based in the American character of optimism.

Since 98% of Americans believe in god, (Incredible. Other advanced countries, it's like 40%) it's common sense that like a third aren't really serious about it, a third take it fairly seriously, and a third really got it bad. Of that last third, a big chunk has gotta be totally nuts.

[0007]

27. How many believe we're going to HELL?

[No Exit]

29. That explains why 44% believe Iraqis destroyed the WTC.

Can you say "same brain power as a paramecium"?

[Pegleg Thd]

30. As one who has studied theology

for almost 50 years I tell you that the idea of 'the rapture' being promoted by the fundies is about as realistic as most of the sci-fi movies we have seen. There is no possibility of such a thing happening.

[DU GrovelBot]

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[autorank]

35. Let's have a pre-emptive rapture...let them go early. That would work.

[Nashyra]

38. All I can say is if there is a rapture

it will be the Dems being ratured and repukes getting left behind. I don't think Jesus believed in trickle down economics and I really think that the passage in Matthew where Jesus condems those "who did not do for my brothers, did not do for me" and end up in the Lake of Fire are Repukes. Most Dems try and do for others and the less fortunate as a general way of life. I don't consider myself born again, but I do find comfort in the faith I have, and after losing a daughter and having my faith become stronger I find most fundies revolting, I feel like I should carry holy water around with me and sprinkle them with it and it will turn them into a physical hideous monster, which is akin to what their "gospel" is.

I really find it disturbing to watch on MSM when they do a spot on some of these Christians and they talk about a sick or loved one and they talk about how wonderful God is because their loved one was saved with prayer. How about showing people who had prayer, who prayed and begged God for the life of their child or loved one and it was "God's Will" for that loved one not to survive. Where are those prime time stories? Where are the stories of folks who have felt a loss and still retain there faith without all the trappings of "my church". The fundies are dangerous, they are selfish and I think evil. I finish this rant with the way I started it, if there is a rapture, they will be left behind, bring it on.

[PurityOfEssence]

36. Nietzsche: "After coming into contact with a religious man I always...

...feel I must wash my hands."

"A casual stroll through a lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything."

"God is a thought that makes crooked all that is straight."

"The Christian resolution to find the world ugly and bad has made the world ugly and bad."

"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life."

The list goes on and on; he had a lot to say on the subject.

[ochazuke]

52. Nietzsche da man

Willing the world to a quick end where all one's enemies are left behind in torement is the essense of ressentment.

[cestpaspossible]

40. I think I'm already dead, and this is hell.

Which is not that bad, the way I look at it, it could be a lot worse.

[LiberalFighter]

42. Why wait for the rapture? Beat the rush and get a good seat.

[thinkingwoman]

46. I'm losing patience

with how long this rapture thing is taking.

I think they need to get on with it already. Get the hell off our planet and leave us to split up their stuff.

Plus, think how cool it will be to see all those pious idiots getting sucked into oblivion!

It's like the bumper sticker says...come the rapture, can I have you're car?

[GOPBasher]

48. I don't believe in the Rapture literally, but must you be so rude?

anyone incredibly stupid enough to believe in the Rapture

I don't think that's going to win any converts from evangelical Christians. I don't think one must be "stupid" to believe in the Rapture, although I'm a Christian and I don't believe in in, at least in that literal sense.

[ochazuke]

53. Yes

Massive invective and ostracism works better with idiots than subtle reason. They cannot be converted, they must be intimidated.

Just wait, white supremacists will be coming out from under the rocks soon because they see that it is once again safe to do so. First time since 1964.

[GOPBasher]

61. Well you have a point there.

"They can't be converted." I guess I can't argue with that.

[Zhade]

57. As an atheist, I'm splitting hairs here...

...but the "Rapture" is a belief not present in the bible, conjured up in the 19th century. It's literally a death cult.

One of its believers has his finger on the button.

So yes, Rapturites should be ridiculed for their insane belief, because they have no problem with ending the world to fulfill their belief. That threatens the social contract, and there can be no quarter given for any who do so.

[IntravenousDemilo]

66. People who believe in things...

...for which there is no proof are, almost by definition, stupid. And "stupid" is probably even a nicer word than what they really are. Sorry, but there's no other way of putting it.

[TrogL]

50. and people thought I was crazy

Click below.

[faithnotgreed]

68. i am someone "incredibly stupid enough" to believe in the rapture

just checking in .... yes i believe in the complete love of Jesus and salvation. but like many other ideas of love and belief, this concept has been hijacked to serve purposes for which it was never intended

i cannot understand how God is wielded like a club. He is only love.
a love we will never comprehend

and thus is why all of us small humans constantly try to legislate and categorize and label that which we dont understand and especially that which we fear. but it is only ignorance

i just wanted to voice my feelings here. they arent meant to antagonize anyone. simply to express my limited love and support for the incomprehensible that is God

man is the one who has perverted what is only pure love

[faithnotgreed]

69. i should add

i cant know in what form this "rapture" will take but i do believe in the concept. how it happens is not the most important aspect to me

on edit: i re read my initial response and wanted to make sure to convey that i was only voicing my support for Christ.

just in case i wanted to make sure to say how happy i am to be able to state these feelings and definitely wasnt feeling any antagonism
i know how things can be mis read online and since i will be away from the computer for some days i wanted to make sure to be clear!