Bush Doing What Kerry Said

[erpowers]

In my opinion Bush's European trip is doing excatly what Kerry said he would do. During the election Bush criticized Kerry for saying he would go to the Europeans to try to get them to help train Iraqi troops. Now Bush is going to Europe to do just that. So once again we can say Kerry and the Democrats were right.

[izzie]

1. Bush always takes what is good for him to do.

Look how he ran the first time. Every time McCain came out with something Bush headed for tx. and two days later he did it.

[booley]

2. well didn't you notice?

...How during the debates when Kerry made a good suggestion or when a Shrubbery policy had proven so BAAAAAD that even Shrub couldn't spin it, then Shrub would turn around and say he was going to change the policy or do whatever Kerry's idea was... without even acknowledging Kerry or that the bad policy/problem came from the Shrubbery to begin with?


Sometimes Shrub even contradicted himself from debatre to debate

Remember how in one debate we all had to be careful about potentially lethal "Canadian Drugs"? and then the next debate we were going to solve our vaccine shortage by using CANADIAN IMPORTS?!

When you are a consistent LIER you don't have to worry about being consistent.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Which illustrates how close Bush & Kerry are on the war.

Both still want to continue the occupation.

[karynnj]

4. Kerry has clearly said he does not want an occupation

If Bush and his advisor's sometimes do part of what Kerry proposes after their plans fail, it may be that they realize that though they don't like him, he is often suggesting the plan with the best chance of success.

[marcologico]

6. And unlike Chimpster, Kerry has an exit strategy

which does not include carpet-bombing Syria and Iran.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

Exit strategy? How about loading them on planes and flying them home?

Like the Iraqis want.

[FreedomAngel82]

36. Exactly

I never heard Kerry say he wants to stay there permanently. It would be foolish to just pull out and leave without making sure their police are ready for whatever they need. I still think if we just start leaving the violence would start slowing down. It's just easy to see. :shrug:
I'm sure Bush will be using a lot of other Kerry ideas as well. *sigh* For some reason this feels like dejavu. :shrug:

[pstans]

8. Kerry doesn't want an occupation

Bu$hCo wants to use Iraq as a springboard to invading other Middle Eastern countries like Iran and Syria. All to gain more access to oil.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Then why is he voting to fund the occupation?

Could it be the same reason he voted for the war?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. Really? What does he think that $82Bln is going for?

Candy bars for the troops to hand out?

[emulatorloo]

9. Put your glasses on. . .Kerry doesn't want endless occupation

Kerry wants alternative fuel sources
Bush wants to drill drill drill and occupy occupy occupy and pay pay pay to dick's halliburton.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. Well, $82Bn would go a long way in funding alternative fuel.

Too bad he wants to give it to the military.

[emulatorloo]

15. better the soldiers have armor than to have to dig in the dump

I'd rather they'd come home alive than dead

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

19. I'd rather they come home now.

And, be given something useful to do that doesn't require body armor.

[emulatorloo]

26. Wouldnt we all

:toast:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Kerry and Bush don't.

[LittleClarkie]

46. I was surprised to find today that neither does Nicholas Kristoff

I think this is what some of us are trying to say.

http://www.justabovesunset.com/id494.html

Saving the Iraqi Children

Nicholas D. Kristof, The New York Times, November 27, 2004

"Iraqis are paying a horrendous price for the good intentions of well-meaning conservatives who wanted to liberate them. And now some well-meaning American liberals are seeking a troop withdrawal that would make matters even worse.

Heaven protect Iraq from well-meaning Americans.

Lately, I've been quiet about the war because it's easy to rail about the administration's foolishness last year but a lot harder to offer constructive suggestions for what we should do now. President Bush's policy on Iraq has migrated from delusional - we would be welcomed with flowers, we should disband the Iraqi army, security is fine, the big problem is exaggerations by nervous Nellie correspondents - to reasonable today. These days, the biggest risk may come from the small but growing contingent on the left that wants to bring our troops home now.

... our mistaken invasion has left millions of Iraqis desperately vulnerable, and it would be inhumane to abandon them now. If we stay in Iraq, there is still some hope that Iraqis will come to enjoy security and better lives, but if we pull out we will be condemning Iraqis to anarchy, terrorism and starvation, costing the lives of hundreds of thousands of children over the next decade."

Btw, trying to repaint Kerry in Bush's likeness is over-simplifying the issue in the extreme. Kerry would never have invaded Iraq. He would, however, have probably still invaded Afghanistan. Make of that what you would. Nevertheless, those of us with memories will not let you play historical revisionist with the facts so soon after they occured.

[Dr Ron]

14. Big difference between Kerry and Bush

Kerry wants to internationalize the effort, and get out ASAP.

Bush wants to keep in US-dominated (even if he is willing to take a little aide from other countries) so that companies like Hallilburton can continue to use Iraq as a profit center. In addition, any consideration by Bush of ultimately getting out is due to political pressure from people like Kerry.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Pressure from Kerry? That's like pressure on Hitler from Chamberlain.

All he does is vote FOR Bush's agenda. Or, did you miss the IWR vote, and now the vote for the supplement?

Pressure? More like stoking the engine of the war machine.

[Dr Ron]

23. The IWR vote was not a vote for Bush's agenda

Look at his statements at the time of the IWR vote. Note that Democrats from Hilary Clinton to Howard Dean to Wesley Clark all had a similar position at the time of the vote. Kerry made it clear he would oppose Bush if he went to war other than as a last resort if we were truly endangered. As Bush went to war without such evidence we were endangered, and without pursuing diplomatic efforts in good faith as he promised, Kerry was the one who called for regime change in Washington when Bush first started the war.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. OK. So, when does he start "opposing" rather than voting for more?

If what you say is true, then he was one of the few people in the world, who believed that Bush wasn't going to war no matter what the outcome of the vote. 23 other senators managed to see through the obvious bullshit.

Sorry, the "Duh, I didn't think Bush would use those troops massed in Kuwait", defense doesn't cut it.

His "opposition" seems to be voting to fund the occupation that he voted for.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. I definietly think

if Kerry was president now he would've already been working on getting allies to help us get out there as he wanted to do. Then we could possibly be getting ready to leave either at the end of this year or next. Who knows. But now with Bush I think he's just doing this for a show for his base and the media. I don't think he's serious about getting allies. As we all know he wants to stay there and he wants to have it to where Halliburton can be there.

[LittleClarkie]

31. Bush was going it alone with a coalition of the "willing"

and making fun of Kerry for wanting to involve Europe.

Now, suddenly, Bush is trying to involve Europe. That is part of getting the American face off the war, and part of extracting ourselves from the place.

The difference is Bush will probably fuck it up.

No, Kerry and Bush are world's apart. One is an adult, the other a child.

Even Dean and Kusinich, I'm told, supported stabilization and training before withdrawl. Nobody in the campaign was saying pull out now, except for Nader, I think.

A Libertarian friend of mine (well, very nearly, as that's how he leans) couldn't decide between Kerry and Bush until he was staring at the ballot. It was the transition that scared him. He thought we'd lose soldiers in the transition. As former military, he couldn't stand that thought. He thought if he could save just one soldier's life with his vote, it would be worth it. He agonized though, because he is not down with the Bush agenda. Even now, he hates the vote he felt he had to make. He almost hates himself for that vote.

But it makes him feel better to see, because he has percieved as the original poster has percieved, that Bush is now doing alot of what Kerry said. My friend said "And that is a good thing." Because ultimately, Kerry would have been better on national defense.

It's just as Kerry said, at least as far as my friend goes, that people just couldn't switch leaders in the middle of a conflict, even if they thought that leader might be better.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

33. Kerry is part of the "coalition of the willing".

He voted for the war, and now votes to fund it. If Bush is doing what "Kerry suggested" does that mean that you support the idea of "getting Europe involved" in our colonial war? Would German and French troops subduing Iraq make it a moral war?

Bush isn't going to "fuck it up" because the Europeans aren't dumb enough to jump into the quagmire to further American imperialism. Got further news for you. They wouldn't have done it for Kerry either.

[LittleClarkie]

34. Oh, is he Polish too?

Who'da thunk it.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. He'd probably claim to be if he thought it would get him a vote.

[LittleClarkie]

42. On second thought, probably not

He forgot Poland, you know.

The shame of it... whimper...

[cestpaspossible]

47. Simply inaccurate.

[JI7]

5. it requires a lot more than that

he has to ask them for help and in return that means giving up control of things such as the resources and contracts.

and that's where the problem comes in. he wont do those things. he is also very selfish and stubborn .

[bush_is_wacko]

7. Well, he may be doing that or he may be building support for his

new Iran/Syria agenda. I think it's secretly the latter. Putin is NOT going to fall for his lies. he has ALREADY publicly denounced bush's lies regarding Iran's nuclear capabilities. Believe me this is WMD's all over again. I would think Putin would have far more to fear from Iran having those capabilities than the US does given their closer proximity to Iran.

[cindyw]

12. Where do you think Bush gets his most effective ideas. It is usually when

he steals someone's ideas.

[Dr Ron]

16. Sure has no ideas of his own

Fortunately sometimes Bush steals ideas from people who are right. More often he steals them from people who are on the far right--quite a difference.

[cindyw]

21. Well I said effective, not active.

He also does have a way of taking good ideas and fucking them up too.

[Dr Ron]

22. True

That's often because his real goals differ from the publically stated goals behind a policy. For example, his presciption drug program was to weaken Medicare, not to provide a new benefit. Similary his Social Security programs are to weaken the program, not to do anything about the problems of baby boomers retiring. His invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with his ever changing reasons for going in.

From your perspective, he is taking a good idea and fucking it up.

From his perspective, he is taking somone elses ideas to make his ideas sound more tolerable, and he is accomplishing his own goals, not fucking things up.

[cindyw]

28. Yeah, your probably right.

[cestpaspossible]

17. Except Bush won't be able to pull it off. He doesn't have the credibility.

[politicasista]

18. Smirky is like a below average student

who copies off the smartest person (Kerry) in the class test. :dunce:

[karynnj]

24. Who just happens to be Kerry

[politicasista]

25. self-delete.

[marcologico]

27. Typical Chimp, always cribbing from the competition. Remember

his "reformer with results" line when McCain was a threat?

[flpoljunkie]

29. Also stole McCain's line about serving a cause greater than yourself...

It's one of Dubya's favorite "compassionate conservative" lines still.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. Now we know why it's his favorite

Sad really. I wonder how McCain felt with all of that stealing.

[LittleClarkie]

30. Yeppers

Also, in yesterday's NYT there was an article about how most of the money granted to port security has not been spent. Kerry talked about port security, and the Bushies just said "Well, he's just talking about things we're already doing."

No. They're not.

Kerry said we were less safe, not more because of what we had done in Iraq. Now that the Bushies want more money for Iraq, they suddenly agree.

Kerry set a goal of being out of Iraq in 4 years. The Bushies said it was a mistake to talk about setting goals, that it encouraged the insurgents. Then right after the election, there's Rummy saying "We should be out in about 4 years." Sounded familiar.

Kerry said they weren't providing what the troops needed before they went in. So they blasted Kerry for the 87 million, saying he voted against the troops. (It passed, idiot) Then we find out many of our troops have to scrounge for armor. Yeah, that 87 billion's doing SO much good.

I'm trying to keep a list. I need to go and find examples of both sides on my list, as I'm going by my faulty memory.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. Good idea to keep a list

[FreedomAngel82]

35. Of course

The sob is stealing all of Kerry's ideas!! :grr:

[ginnyinWI]

41. not only did Kerry say it during the campaign,

he was saying it over two years ago, at the time of the IWR, and before we invaded Iraq. Get Europe in your corner. Deal with it through the U.N. Listen to the inspectors who wanted more time.

And now * won't meet with Kerry, because then people might realize that he needs the advice. Instead he'll just steal ideas from Kerry and the other Dems. And call them his. We can't let them get away with it--shout it from the rooftops--those are the Dems' ideas!!

[karynnj]

43. But that's better than continuing with failed Bush ideas

Although I'm sure Kerry would like to get credit if Bush moves to any of his positions, as they are his best idea of what should be done,I would bet that he would prefer them to be implemented. He seems a genuinely patriotic man.

[jojo54]

45. * has to do something "manly" before his next vacation!