If Frist is the 2008 Republican nominee,

[cestpaspossible]

will we have learned the lesson of history, and have the balls to spend tens of millions of dollars on vicious attack ads highlighting his history of cruelty to animals?

Negative campaigning works. I wish it didn't, but history tells us that a positive, uplifting campaign based on real solutions and plans is not as effective as repetitive, emotionally-laden attacks.

We need to get over our squeamishness and be willing to get our hands dirty.

[bluestateguy]

1. That and a 12 year Senate voting record

Lots of work for DNC interns to do.

[Ashamed_American]

13. Lots of dirt to dig,

might as well start early. Unfortunately a fact finding mission, or as I like to call it, THE TRUTH, will be labeled as a sick smear campaign. Of course, the truth never got in the way before to stop Americans from voting for Dubya.


www.BlackEyedSundays.com

[drdtroit]

2. Is he a big enough criminal for the GOP to run? n/t

[FreedomAngel82]

3. I personally don't think

it'll be him. I'm in Tennessee and haven't heard any rumors of him running. :shrug: I think their best bet would be McCain. Just because the type of person he is and he seems to be non-partisian (he's worked with Kerry and Liberman).

[Hippo_Tron]

8. Why else would he retire from the senate after only 4 years...

As majority leader? He's going to run and chances are that he will hire Rove.

[NewJeffCT]

9. Frist formed an exploratory committee months ago

So, I'm sure he'll be in it.

Of course, McCain, Giuliani and Jeb are the big 3.

[cestpaspossible]

12. The wingnuts hate McCain, and Guiliani is pro-choice

Jeb will have to deal with 'Bush-fatigue'... I don't think it will be one of them.

[CatholicEdHead]

15. No Condi?

On other boards, right wingers love to push her name in relation to "clobbering Hillary" in 2008.

[NewJeffCT]

16. They float Condi's name out there for 1 reason only

So it will give the "mainstream" the illusion that African Americans can do well in the Republican Party.

[CatholicEdHead]

19. I keep telling right wingers that on other boards

but they seem to think it is going to happen, even when I bring up the gauntlent of the primaries in which the GOP powers that be probably do not have her on the short list.

[Coastie for Truth]

23. Well if Bush could be elected, why not Condi

She's also relatively inept. During her time as Provost she left Stanford Univ. in a "relative" mess - and it took John Hennessy (of Hennessy and Patterson "Computer Architecture" fame) to straighten Stanford out. She was generally not liked by the Stanford community -- and the talk of her running against Feinstein has evaporated (now it's Steve "Tex" Poizner).

[stray cat]

11. I don't think McCain can win the republican primary

Most of the radical right don't consider him a real republican.

[NewJeffCT]

26. I think the Radical Right would surprise you...

They'll "fall on their sword" for McCain and spin him as a moderate, even though he's pretty conservative on most issues. Then, when McCain struggles for 4 years cleaning up Bush's mess, they'll be able to say, "see, look what happens when you nominate a moderate..."

[knight_of_the_star]

30. He won't survive the primaries again

The bullshit Bush threw at him in 2000 probably will be dredged up and used again.

[Dr.Phool]

4. Remember

Cat lovers love their cats even more than their religion. Or their values.

I can see the moveon.org ads already.

[Mojambo]

5. He's got massive baggage and NO charisma

to work around it with.

They are NOT going to nominate Frist. I hope they do, but they won't

[DemDogs]

47. You are right -- ZERO charisma

The Rs might not have a worst speaker. He'll get training for sure, but it will be a long long road.

[Tony_FLADEM]

6. The Republican nominee in 2008 will be

George Allen (R) Virginia

[BlueManDude]

21. McCain or Gingrich

[yurbud]

32. Gingrich would be a dream come true for dems

he is self-defeating with his hubris.

[patricia92243]

7. Constitution is to be changed so Arnold can run.

[drdtroit]

10. You betcha! n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

14. Two Big Negatives

1. MISTER (Not "Doctor" - Howard and Judy are "Doctors") Frist's family owned health care mafia operation closed San Jose Medical Center. This was the ONLY trauma center in Down Town San Jose, CA - thanks to our fine Director of Emergency Services, Dr. Frannie Edwards, and our outstanding Fire/EMT Chief Jeff Clett, we haven't lost anybody yet.

But, now MISTERFrist's family owned health care mafia operation wants the taxpayers to rehab the San Jose Regional Medical Center (Old Alexian Brothers Hospital) to create a Trauma Center.

IMHO MISTER Frist and his family owned health care mafia operation have their hands in the public till.

2. Plain and simple - he's a cat vivisectionist - and gets his cats from "No Kill" shelters --- breaking the trust with families that had to give up their companion animals (new landlord or something).

3. We know him here - he did his residency at Stanford (of Condi fame).

No way will I vote for MISTER Frist.

Maybe we could link him with the Insurance Industry's lobbyist Karen Ignagni (of Harry and Louise Infomercial fame). ;)

[politicasista]

17. I am ashamed that he is my senator.

He is dull, no charisma, dry, and a cat killer. :puke:

[JHBowden]

18. It is going to be Governor Owens.

Bank on it.

[BlueManDude]

20. then we should get on our knees and thank the almighty

he would be the worst case scenario for them.

[knight_of_the_star]

31. Gingrich would be worst-caser scenario

Mr. Family Values with two divorces one conducted while his current wife was dying in the hospital.

[BlueManDude]

34. that stuff only matters if you're a Dem

Gingrich scares the hell out of me. He is frighteningly articulate. Be careful what you wish for.

[FreedomAngel82]

44. That's just disgusting

of Mr. Gringrich. Ugh. Gross. :puke:

[saltpoint]

22. Posters here who mention Allen and Owen are --

-- on track. They're both interested in the job and both have significant egos.

But I think they are ultimately going to wind up as VP mentions with THE CAT BUTCHER at the top of the ticket.

I'm seeing a Frist - Owen GOP ticket vs. Clark or Edwards for us, with the Republicans defeated by a 6% margin nationwide.

[CatholicEdHead]

25. How about Minnesota Gov Tim Pawlenty?

I heard he was hobknobbing at the GOP convention last year. He has Norm Coleman's slickness. How is he viewed on a more national basis? If not 2008, he is a rising start to watch out on some future ticket in 2012 and 2016.

You either love him or hate him in Minnesota, very little inbetween. He is known for keeping his "no new taxes pledge" by the MN Taxyapayer's League and playing lots of gimmicks so he does not "break his pledge".

[saltpoint]

27. I forgot about this guy. I've heard his name being --

-- kicked around, too. It could be that he would be the right balance for Frist -- someone from the "blue" belt of the upper Great Lakes to break the electoral map up.

Yikes.

I wish you hadn't brought this up! (kidding)

[JI7]

24. he will bring up his doing medical care for free for Africa

he is also supportive of stem cell research which is one of the big issues the Democrats have on their side. we can use this issue to try to get the religious right not come out and vote for him or at least vote third party.

but a better way to go after him would be to bring up the connections his family has to high health care costs . i can't remember much of it, but i'm sure others would provide the info.

but what needs to be done is we have to simplify it into a way people can understand and then we have to keep hitting the same points again and again.

the problem for democrats before was that while they would attack it wouldn't be consistently on the same thing or with a same line. the flip flopper thing worked in a way because ALL republicans would use it no matter what the issue was. from iraq to health care to education etc. even when it didn't make sense they would just use the word. republican politicians, pundits, media whores, and even regular grassroots and rank and file members would use it.

and that's where we fail. did you know that ALL the democrats kicked their opponents asses in debates in 2004. not just Kerry but the Senate candidates also. so we won every single one of those debates but in every single one of those debates the republicans had the same line of attack. while democrats had their own arguments or lines. and even if we won all of them individually, we lost overall.

a big reason has to do with Democrats being a "big tent" party where individual groups of party members may differ on things. but that's just another area we have to work on.

[DemDogs]

28. Cruelty to humans too

Heard a rumor about his awful performance as a doctor in Nashville. Lots of doctors who fixed his cases sorry to see him go the Senate. He was making them rich, too, if this rumor can be believed. I am certain that this will be brought up, particularly if Edwards is the Democratic nominee. Good lawyer vs. bad doctor.

[yurbud]

29. Bill Frist couldn't win out of the South and with Fundies

George Stephanapoulus made him nervous on his show. He couldn't stand up to serious debate or scrutiny beyond the circle of true believers. Unlike Bush and more like Quayle, he has the weakness of being aware of his own profound intellectual limitations.

[Chomskyite]

42. If you get faced down by Stephanoupolus . . .

. . . you're a friggin' coward. Geez. What would David Frost have done to him?

[yurbud]

49. stephanopoulus asked about right wing misinfo on AIDS

He tried to get a yes or no answer on whether something used in abstinence education was medically accurate when it said that AIDS can be caught through sweat or tears.

[yurbud]

33. more likely Jeb or Arnold

or someone else more central to the Bush machine than a nellie like Frist.

[CatholicEdHead]

35. No Arnie

the Constitution will not allow it (at present).

[yurbud]

37. which laws do Bushies hold sacred?

[TNMOM]

36. he'll get the southern white vote, unfortunately

But maybe's pissed off enough people/created enough enemies to weaken his candidacy. Can he fundraise?

[cestpaspossible]

38. No cat lovers in Dixie?

[John_H]

39. Cat vivisection is the least of Billie's worries.

We should start with his uising his insider status to make tens of millions from the medicare and medicaid programs he wants to cut.

[Czolgosz]

40. I think Frist will be the nominee. I hear he's Rove's pick if Jeb doesn't

run. I also think Frist does something that Rove prizes above all (and which W also does well and which Jeb is studying hard to learn how to do): he is pro-tax-rebates-for-the-wealthy so that the core Kleptopublican constituency doesn't care about his creepy fundamentalist side and he is enough of a creepy fundamentalist that the core Jesublican constituency doesn't care that he's robbing the till to give handouts to the rich. If you look at McCain, for example, neither core constituency likes him nearly as much as they like Frist.

[Egalia]

41. He's not qualified

The number one qualification is hyper masculinity, he doesn't have it. He's dull, boring, pale as a ghost, looks more like a little prince than a big strong daddy. I wish the Rethugs would go with him, but I think they're smarter than that. I'm in TN, these good old boys would not vote for him.

[FreedomAngel82]

45. You're right about Frist

I don't think people would vote for him either. Not after they've had W anyways.

[calimary]

43. Just call his campaign "Vivisectionists On Parade."

Or - how 'bout The Kitten Butcher. Or just The Butcher. I turned a potential republi-CON voter off of him with that, just a few weeks ago. She's a friend of one of my kids. She's a confirmed animal lover - especially cats, and her family has several of them at home. And by the time he's gonna be throwing his hat in the ring, she'll be old enough to vote.

And sad to say, negative campaigning DOES work. Never mind that poll after poll shows Americans claim they don't approve of negative campaign ads. That is meaningless. They may not like 'em, but they keep falling for them EVERY SINGLE F-ING TIME.

Negative campaigning WORKS. I'm with you - I hope to GOD our folks have gotten this message pounded through their thick skulls. Unless they're masochists and just like to keep on losing...

As for me, I'd rather win. I appreciate the wish to take the high road. But with these people playing against us, and the way they play, our taking the high road leads us directly off a very high cliff. I too wish it weren't true. I'd like us all to play like ladies and gentlemen. But if their side plays like junkyard dogs, the lady/gentleman bit just won't hold up. You wind up taking a banana to a knife fight.

[AP]

46. It'll either be Frist v Edwards or Ridge v Clark

Edwards will beat Frist. I can imagine a scenario where Ridge beats Clark.

[bunkerbuster1]

48. Please stop deluding yourself. Americans don't care about animal rights.

They elected a right-wing asshole in Bush, knowing full well that he was a right-wing asshole. Why would catnapping and vivisection bother that electorate? They don't think cats feel pain.

Anyway, yeah, we can get some mileage out of this, but it'd have to be via a 527, not through the DNC.

[cestpaspossible]

50. It's not about animal rights. It's about killing little kittens.

I mean, imagine the ads we could make!

it'd have to be via a 527, not through the DNC.

Why?

[bunkerbuster1]

51. sorry I'm late to reply, but if you're still around...

I honestly and truly believe the RW could reframe the argument about Frist's cat-dissection and make it about "loony-lefties who care more about animals than people."

As for why anything that raised this issue would have to be through a 527, see above.

Look, his cruelty could be an issue, but it's not a deal-killer for a lot of swing voters, I suspect.

[PROGRESSIVE1]

52. From what I've seen around DU, I hope that this is NOT the...

mentality we take in the 2008 election. I have bumped into TOO MANY "Alan Colmes" around here who have condemned me for my method of what I call "political tactical fighting". Until Democrats learn how to....
-CLEARLY define their message
-stay on message
-fight like Hell
-beat the LIVING CRAP out of the other (anti-American) side

....Democrats will keep on losing election after election.

It's your choice, LIVE, or DIE!

I chose to do what it takes to live!