This is to good to be true. I.E Bill Maher quote on art exhibit

[KBlagburn]

I apologize for duplicate post but this is to good to leave buried in a thread. I have been corresponding with a city councilman from Lakewood, Colorado. One of the persons reponsible for the removal of an art exhibit by a veteran simply because they did not like a quote by bill maher. The original link then my emails with the council member. To have the right sequence you need to read from bottom up.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3144275



I would deem holding a press conference without notifying the rest of the council taking it upon yourself. And I also believe that when other council members have to learn of something as important as this in the newspaper the public is not well served. Also, an art exhibit in a public building does not equal "Government using their resources".
I can see that accepting responsibility for ones action is no longer "politically correct". Without your actions the exhibit would not have been removed and dare I say had it gone before the full council, it would not have been removed.
Expressing your opinion is a noble thing, which I highly encourage. However, forcing your opinion and/or beliefs upon the public at large is irresponsible and arrogant. There are allot of things said in which I disagree. However I do not expect nor wish that those be forced upon me, especially by our public officials. I do believe that government in any form and those who serve the public should abide by the oath which they have taken. To support and defend the constitution of the United States and that includes protecting civil liberties. Not taking them from us simply because we have a difference of opinion.
Now if the display were truly offensive i.e. pornographic or did harm to anyone personally, I would agree with you on this issue. But this does not meet that criteria. This is simply one person disagreeing with what another has said. Or could it be that one is upset that an American citizen exercised their right to criticize our government and/or leaders.
What is especially upsetting is that you, by your actions, have degraded the very people you say you are trying to protect. This exhibit was put together by a veteran who happened to oppose an unjust war. I suppose we have a tendency to support our veterans as long as they agree with us or are fighting our battles, but when they speak out or return from those battles we can no longer support them. We may support them with our words but our actions speak ever so loudly.


----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:44 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


As I have said before, I did not take it upon myself to speak on behalf of the rest of council. I have asked all members of council to join me in asking for the exhibit to be removed, as I find it offensive and do not support Government using their resources to demean citizens I represent. I did not remove the exhibit this was done by the city manager, I just expressed my opinon that you have fought so hard to protect. But maybe, but you sound like you h

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:40 PM
To: Ray Elliott
Subject: Re: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


If you do not know where the rest of the council stands on this issue, you have been lax in your responsibility. Maybe you should have asked them before taking a unilateral action. By taking it upon yourself to remove it, you are not allowing the free market the freedom to decide. What about those residents of Lakewood who served to protect the very rights that you are denying. Why not leave the display as is and let ALL of Lakewood decide? Why not allow Lakewood to decide if it meets their community standards rather than yours. Where does the constitution state (or city charter) that it is the responsibility of three council members to decide for the whole without the rest of the Lakewood council being notified or able to see and judge for themselves. I have been in contact with several members of the council and I can assure you they are as alarmed as I, that a select few would take it upon themselves to take action of this sort. And I would ask you sir, where in the constitution (or city charter) does it state that three council members in and of themselves a government make?

As to the question, where do I live. This matters not. What matters is that I have served my country and have earned the right to object to this kind of Stalinist attitude. I am an American who cares about where this country came from and in what direction it is going. For what affects Lakewood, affects us all.

Respectfully

----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: [e-mail]
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 9:10 PM
Subject: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Three members requested it be removed, the City Manager was not forced to remove it. You might want to ask the rest of City Council whether they supported the removal or not. I do not know where the rest stand on this issue.

You still have not answered the issue about demeaning some of the very residents who support Lakewood with their tax dollars. Also, where does the constitution state it is governments responsibility to support this type of "art," why don't we let the free market support this if there is a demand?

I am guessing you do not reside in Lakewood based upon your e-mail address. Where do you live?


-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:00 PM
To: Ray Elliott
Subject: Re: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Then my question to you is this. How can a minority of the council decide on this issue without taking it to the majority of the council? You have violated your own standards.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:53 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Once again, this is not a freedom of speech issue. The artist can express herself as she likes, but that doesn't mean the government needs to support or promote it. The display demeans citizens I represent and I will not tolerate it. Government is of for and by the people, but even in a democracy what the majority decides is how government is run until the minority becomes the majority.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:10 PM
To: Ray Elliott
Subject: Re: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Sir, this goes to the very heart of democracy. You believe that the governlment should only allow that which only a few agree with.
And as Thomas Jefferon wrote, government is of, for and by the people. ALL the people not just a few. As a ardent student of American history and U.S. government, I would repectally suggest you try reading the U.S. constitution. If you will remember, actions such as those you have undertaken in this matter were exactly what the revolutionary war was fought over. The constitution does not state rights that the government gives us, but those rights that we are endowed with by our creator and which the governemnt shall not take away.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 8:00 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


I don't see how this relates to democracy. As I said earlier, the artist has every right to display this exhibit. Government shouldn't promote the display of this exhibit. Let the free market handle it and let's see what happens.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:55 PM
To: Ray Elliott
Subject: Re: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


We must promote democracy in American before we can force upon others. Surely Thomas Jefferson and James Madison must be turning in their graves.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: [e-mail]
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:43 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


I see no connection between objecting to this exhibit and socialism. In fact, I whole heartedly support capitalism. I have not had the priviledge of serving in the military, but my father did as a vetran of the Air Force.
-----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:27 PM
To: Ray Elliott
Subject: Re: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


I may not agree with what some may say but I will fight for their right to say it. As a matter of fact I did. In which branch did you serve, if I may ask? What bothers me, is that we are becoming more socialist every day.
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: [e-mail]
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 7:19 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Kenneth -

Let me finish what I started, I object to government paying for what some call art, but I certainly don't consider this art. Lakewood certainly wouldn't display something racist as this is policiically incorrect, but it bothers me Lakewood would display something disparaging any of our residents. This is a free country, so you have the right to disagree, but I likewise have the right to stand for what I believe and this display must be removed from the Lakewood Cultural Center.

Ray

Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:06 PM
To: Ray Elliott
Subject: Re: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Sir, using that logic, then the exhibit should be shut down as a whole. You should not pick and choose. If she is not allowed to display her art "on the taxpayers dime" then no one should be allowed. You should apply the standard which you are using equally across the board to any an all "artist".

Respectfully
Kenneth Blagburn
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 6:55 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Kenneth -

I think you are missing the point. Everyone has the right to free speech. I believe in the second amendment as well, but don't expect the government to pay for me to own a gun. The artist has every right to display her work, but not on the taxpayer's dime. I object to government payi

-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 5:29 PM
To: Ray Elliott
Subject: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


In response to the following article, which appeared in the Rocky Mountain News, I felt obligated to write. As an 7 year Air Force veteran and Desert Storm Veteran, I am outraged that this travesty is allowed to happen in Lakewood.

Do you not understand that the very speech that you call "anti-American and anti-military" is being fought for and defended by the very military that you think is being degraded. Do you not understand that thousands of our veterans fought and died to protect that which you say is disparaging . What you are doing is in and of itself "anti-American and anti-military". Do you really believe that doing something such as censoring a veterans free speech is "American".

Since when is speaking out anti-American? Since when is exercising a right that thousands have fought and died for anti-American.

I served in and supported Desert Storm, which I believed was just. It is not anti-American to speak out against that which is unjust, it is just the opposite. Do you remember the Soviet Union, in which citizens were censored and not allowed to speak out?

As a veteran, I can honestly say, that the Lakewood Councils actions are as anti-American as anything I have seen or heard.

Kenneth S Blagburn

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." Theodore Roosevelt


http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_3559945,00.html
'Anti-American' art to be yanked
Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic

By Charley Able, Rocky Mountain News
February 19, 2005

LAKEWOOD - City Manager Mike Rock late Friday ordered an art exhibit some considered unpatriotic to be removed from a city-owned building.

The decision came after three council members issued a joint statement calling the exhibit "anti-American and anti-military."

[KBlagburn]

1. self kick

sorry

[Catch22Dem]

2. Good stuff

Hope you keep us all posted.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Kudos! Great dialogue..altho I can understand the difficulty of having a

battle of wits with an unarmed enemy.
I was also appalled when I saw the article about some idiot removing this artist's "Hope Stones" just because one of them contained the quote from Bill Maher.
The irony here, of course is that her exhibit will now get more publicity than it would ever have gotten had he kept his grimy paws off of it. Hopefully the result will be similar to that which occurred when the monkey portrait of Bush was removed from the gallery here in NYC. It will just make Mr. Rock look like the biggest moron in Lakewood.
Once again, great work and excellent letters.

[KBlagburn]

4. Update

I truly believe in free speech, but not of one forcing their beliefs on the public. You have every right to state your opinion but as a public official there comes a obligation to use it responsibly and not to further your personal goals of suppressing others who happen to disagree with you.

Respectfully

----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:57 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Sir you are disingenuous you are criticizing me for the same judgment that you just made regarding censorship. Either you believe in free speech or you don't.

[KBlagburn]

5. update 2

Why wasnt a resolution required to remove it? Hypocritical indeed!
----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 11:28 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


And you would force your cernsorship on me if you didn;t like a display as well, so stop being hypocritical. I have not nor am I able to force my beliefs on anyone. I can and will stand for what I believe and will in no way apologize for that. If the majority on Council wants to put the rock back, let them pass a resolution to do so and the rock will be put back. If the maj
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:11 PM
To: Ray Elliott
Subject: Re: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


I truly believe in free speech, but not of one forcing their beliefs on the public. You have every right to state your opinion but as a public official there comes a obligation to use it responsibly and not to further your personal goals of suppressing others who happen to disagree with you.

Respectfully

----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Elliott
To: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 10:57 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


Sir you are disingenuous you are criticizing me for the same judgment that you just made regarding censorship. Either you believe in free speech or you don't.

[KBlagburn]

6. Update 3

I ask again, if the council has the ability to allow the exhibit back, why were they not consulted on its removal.
The difference in you and I sir, is that I do believe in free speech, including yours. However you misused that privilage to suppress others. I would not deny yours or anyone elses right to free speech. That is the difference. I served to protect the rights of everyone, not just a select few.
I recieved this from one of your fellow council members.

"What I can speak to is that I wasn't consulted one way or the other prior to the three city council members holding their press conference to express their outrage, nor was I consulted nor advised that the city manager was canceling the show. I learned of his actions when I read about it in the newspaper. My personal, immediate reaction (again, without having seen the actual show itself) is one similar to yours. One sided and overly reactive. Again, thank you so much for your opinion about this matter. It is people like you and the attitude that you hold and share that makes my job worthwhile "


and this from yet another member:

"Since 3 members (who I believe did not even take the time to view the exhibit) of the 11 member council chose to send a press release to the newspapers without consulting or advising any staff or city council members or the mayor, the rest of council and the public have been denied the opportunity to make their own decisions. I believe strongly in the principle of freedom of speech and believe that principle applies to art as a form of expression"

It would seem there are those on the council that strongly disagree with you and your tactics of censorship.


From: Ray Elliott
To: Ken Blagburn
Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2005 11:52 PM
Subject: RE: Lakewood officials call 'Hope Stones' display unpatriotic


You are wrong, I expressed my opinion, and have upheld the oath of office I took. I find it interesting you mention the holding of a press conference as none was held. Also, you made a point about the rest of Council not being in the know. I had to find out about the exhibit from a newspaper article and received a number of e-mails from citizens who found it offensive. The article made it sound as if Council had approved the display when we had no input at all. All of Council had the same opportunity to find out about the display the same way I did. If they wanted to register their opinion they had the same opportunity I did whether for or against. I simply exercised the first amendment right you say you fought to protect, but maybe you fought to protect it only for those who agree with your opinion. You should take your issue up with Lakewood's City Manager and the rest of the Council who disagree with its removal. Once again if Council disagrees with the City Manager's decision to remove the stone, they have the ability to put it back.

[Hissyspit]

7. Kblagburn, talk to them about the Nazis response to art...

http://cla.calpoly.edu/~mriedlsp/History437/Art/Entarte...

"Hitler's Art Show, 1937 -

Modernist artists who did not flee Germany had their works confiscated by Nazis; they banned Jazz, burned books:

"...in 1937, exhibited as objects of ridicule. Hitler and his propaganda minister, Joseph Goebbles, organized a show of what they called "Degenerate" art, consisting of masterpieces by the century's most brilliant artists: Picasso, Matisse, and Expressionists like Kandinsky, Klee, Nolde, Kirchner, Kokoschka, and Beckman."

"The object was to discredit any work that betrayed Hitler's master race ideology; in short, anything that smacked of dangerous free-thinking. Nazi leaders considered (or pretended to find) Modernist art so threatening they prohibited children from the show and & hired actors to roam the halls loudly criticizing modern art as the work of lunatics. They scrawled derogatory slurs on the walls beside the paintings which were grouped into categories 'Insults To German Womanhood,' 'Nature as seen by Sick Minds.' price tags displayed how much public museums had paid for the works with signs: 'Taxpayer you should know how your money was spent.' "

-- From "The Annotated Mona Lisa" STRICKLAND

[Hissyspit]

8. I'm still confused as to how the exhibit "demeans" anyone...

simply by reporting certain points of view by notable figures concerning a topic.

[cynthia]

9. stand up speak out

you've done a great job challenging this city council's move.

Keep up the good work