Shrub smokes pot and sends kids to prison for doing the same

[Dez]

I think it's horrible the way the drug war has accelerated since shrub took office. Kids going to prison for a long time for selling a bit of herb to undercover cops in Alabama, facing 15 years! It's cruel and unusual punishment, and when is it going to stop? How many lives will be ravaged by this war before we put an end to it! Our politicians wont stop it, it's up to the People to say NO MORE!

[ProgressiveConn]

1. Of course.

Just like he avoided the draft and then sent our kids off to die.

He is probably the biggest hypocrite on the face of the planet.

I don't think the war on drugs will end in this decade. =(

[Dez]

4. It's up to us to stop the injustice on drug users.

The crimes against drug users will continue to get worse and worse. REAL criminals don't have their possessions seized. It's outrageous how bad the laws have gotten in this country. Who will call their Senator and complain to them about it??

[ClassWarrior]

2. He's a hypocrite. This surprises you?

Don't sweat this. We have bigger fish to fry.

NGU.

[Dirty Hippie]

3. Also denies them financial aid

for college.

If you have ever been convicted of any drug related offense you cannot get the Pell grant.

[Dez]

7. This is horrible, to deny poor students the right to go to college to

get a good life. How thought up that one! We need to get the word out that we wont accept this treatment to our youth, otherwise it will just continue.

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. Plus kicks their families out of public housing

I love it when it turns out that the moral ones are caught doing the things that they are trying to stop everyone else from doing.

[Senior citizen]

48. Isn't the White House public housing?

People with a history of drug abuse aren't eligible for public housing. Why doesn't HUD get that dope fiend out of there?

[FreedomAngel82]

39. So if they don't have money

and they want to start over and go to college how are they supposed to without help? What a way to ruin a person's life W! He destory's it all. :grr:

[Lone_Wolf]

60. Good example of a law meant to disenfranchise the poor and middle class

Many poor and middle class families depend on financial aid for college while the rich do not. Bush is just trying to make a permanent underclass of peons.

It kind of reminds me how, 18-year-old males have to sign of for the Selective Service in order to be eligible for financial aid. If I was rich and did not need financial aid, I would not sign up with the Selective Service. If you aren't signed up, it is difficult for them to draft you.

[Senior citizen]

5. They're not going to prison for pot.

They're going to prison because THEIR daddy didn't appoint the judge.

[tavalon]

6. Well, the shrub is nothing if not hypocritical n/t

[mzmolly]

9. Well now, poor kids aren't allowed "youthful indescretions" damnit!

:spank:

Bush is a classist.

[Dez]

10. and a criminal record for the rest of their lives.

Lives are being ravaged by our justice system, for kids committing such horrible 'crimes' as smoking pot, and selling it to their friends. What will each of you do to help stop this horrible injustice??

[mzmolly]

17. Well, as a former pot smoking teen, who knows plenty of people who's

lives are unraveged by said horrible injustice, I don't intend to make it the end all.

While the case in Alabama deserves our attention, smoking pot is not a "good thing" to do for many people frankly, so I'm not going to encourage it regardless. Sure, I would like to see pot legalized on the one hand, but then again my sisters pot selling boyfriend is out of a job when/if it is. Thus, I think educating kids as to what could happen "if" is our best bet right now. So, that's what *I* intend to do.

You?

Also, I saw first hand Clintons drug laws clean up my crack house rich neighborhood. So, Thanks Mr. Clinton!!!! Before Clinton was elected we had neigborhood shootings and death on a regular basis. After he cleaned up our streets, crime dropped dramatically in the neighborhood I lived in. The kids were freed of the rampant crime that once infested the streets, and drive by shootings were largely a thing of the past.

PS my friends daughter just got caught with pot, and after going to court got a $100 fine. Much less than she would have had happen should she have been drunk when she was pulled over. She said she won't drive around with pot on her person again ~ lesson learned.

It's all about "balance" and that's why I am a Democrat, who intends to continue to continue to support "Democrats."

Regarding your sig line, one could also say: Politicians for legalization support drug addiction, mental illness, child neglect and abuse.

Do you have any more info on that Alabama case? I'd like to look into it, Thanks!

[Dez]

30. The punishment doesn't fit the 'crime'.

Plain and simple.

Regarding your sig line, one could also say: Politicians for legalization support drug addiction, mental illness, child neglect and abuse. ..

so you think politicians support all said problems above by allowing alcohol to be legal? Since no one has ever OD'd from pot, or had all the problems that alcoholics have.

I am still looking for more info on the boy in ALabama..

[mzmolly]

36. In a way I do. Do you think alcohol abuse is a good thing?

That's the way your framing the issue for me. I'm not an all or nothing thinker, which is why I'm a Democrat. I believe that we need a balanced approach to Americas drug problem. People OD from pot in a different manner. My aunt died of lung cancer at 55 (thought to be pot related) I know that pot smokers often claim inhaling this magical smoke is wonderous and safe, but it's false.

I've seen numerous kids neglected because of pot, I've seen mental illness exacerbated because of pot, I've seen people segway into bigger better drugs, so the Pollyanna attitude about it is simply naive.

[American Tragedy]

61. Why should the government dictate what we do with our own bodies?

Of course it damages one's lungs. But if an adult grows a plant of their own volition, and crushes the leaves and smokes them, how the fuck does the government rationalize taking their money, their property, sending them to prison, perhaps ruining their lives? If that's not a fundamental violation of the principle of individual privacy, I don't know what is.

Furthermore, the majority of people who've experimented with marijuana suffer little to no ill effects, they do not advance to other substances, and they're actually quite normal. The Commission on Marijuana, whose members were selected by Richard Nixon with the intent to condemn, wound up recommending decriminalization when they reviewed the actual evidence.

Personally, I'm a health & fitness fanatic and I don't find those substances to be performance enhancers, but I don't begrudge others who treat themselves differently. Your body is the only thing you really own. Everything else is merely borrowed for a few decades.

[mzmolly]

66. Because the Government picks up the slack due to the effects of drugs?

As a person who has smoked with Marijuana, I don't dispute the fact that the vast majority of people have no issues. But there are serious issues with marijuana use that get swept aside.

I'm not against legalization so I'm not going to take up the banner of defending the so called war on drugs. What I'm saying is that there are rational reasons to be leary of a free for all.

[robbedvoter]

11. When W sez "he learned from it" - you know what he means, no?

[Dez]

12. He learned that he can do coke in the White House

and not get busted, cause his daddy was president.

[robbedvoter]

24. Bingo! because they are better than us - even if they still need to

pretend they are "regular people" - at least until the empire can be revealed.

[gnofg]

13. As my Dad said

about repubs. Their motto is "Do as I say, Not as I do"

[candy]

14. What laws have been changed by Bush to make drug offenses

have longer prison terms? Are you talking about state or federal laws?

I don't think Bush has anything to do with state laws. What federal laws have changed?

Could you give me a link?

Thanks.

[Dez]

15. The drug war at the border with Canada

escalated. There are now 300 DEA stationed in and around Vancouver, and Texas Troopers are pulling over motorists in BC, and being searched for drugs, and one particular motorist just happened to be an off duty cop, who sued and settled out of court, after he was stopped by these Texans on the highway, then he proceeded on, and was stopped again by some other Texans, which searched his car, his toddler, for pot. Bush is pushing his drug war into Canada http://www.mapinc.org/cmap.

The drug war is not only Bush's war, it's the Republican's war, and the Democrats war, since they both voted for such severe punishments for such minor infractions in comparison to the 'justice' doled out.

[Dez]

16. Ooops, wrong link, here

http://www.canada.com/vancouver/theprovince/news/story.html?id=8fa11ee0-267c-44ef-bef2-8106abce080f

[mzmolly]

18. Gee, let me guess the Green Party will save the day!

Am I on the right track? ;)

[Dez]

19. No, the People. It's up to us now

since the Republicans and Democrats voted in these horrible penalities for pot possession. Pressure from the people to END this injustice. And the Green Party has the courage to come up against the big boys and are willing to fight these injustices.

[mzmolly]

20. That's what I thought. I don't know ANY Democrat who would suggest

a teen should spend 15 years in prison for selling pot to a friend.

I know where this is going, you can read my post above.

[Dez]

23. Are you suggesting that the democrats didn't

vote for drug war laws??

[mzmolly]

28. I love the way you frame this. I'm suggesting Democrats struck a balance

and saved the lives of inner city children and adults.

http://clinton5.nara.gov/WH/Accomplishments/eightyears-06.html

The Clinton Presidency: ~ Lowest Crime Rates in a Generation

Successful Drug Control Strategy: Prevention, Treatment and Enforcement

THEN: Ineffective drug control strategy leaves drugs flowing and addicts untreated The nation suffered from an unbalanced and ineffective drug control strategy that left more than a million addicted individuals untreated, and failed to cut the supply of drugs to America’s communities. In 1992, there were 1,302 drug-related murders, approximately 555 tons of cocaine flooded the streets, and 62 percent of those who needed drug treatment went untreated.
NOW: Balanced, effective anti-drug strategy President Clinton placed a new emphasis on a balanced anti-drug strategy. He elevated the Drug Czar to a cabinet-level post, replaced political appointees with professionals and appointed four-star General Barry McCaffrey as director of the office — the first person with a drug interdiction background to hold the post. Funding for anti-drug efforts has increased by more than 50 percent — from $12.2 billion in 1993 to $18.5 billion in 2000.

Prevention funding has increased by one-third, including a successful Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign, the largest targeted media effort ever to educate youth about the dangers of drug use.

Treatment funding is up 33 percent, and the treatment gap has closed by five percent. To break the cycle of drugs and crime, President Clinton funded Drug Courts to provide treatment for non-violent offenders and helped to expand the number of Drug Courts from a dozen in 1994 to more than 400 in October 1999. The number of federal inmates receiving substance abuse treatment rose from 1,135 in 1992 to 10,816 in 1999, and the Administration has encouraged states to adopt comprehensive drug testing and intervention for prisoners and parolees.

President Clinton has also stepped up interdiction and enforcement efforts. The Administration has increased the number of FBI, DEA, and Border Patrol Agents and is working with allies to stop international cultivation and trafficking. Seizures of cocaine, marijuana and methamphetamine reached record levels in 1999. Drug-related arrests and convictions also increased, with arrests up 46 percent and federal convictions rising by more than 20 percent.

Drug Courts Are Reducing Crime and Drug Abuse

"President Clinton's historic expansion of drug courts across our nation has played a vital role in our success in reducing crime and drug abuse in our communities. Drug Courts across the United States are resulting in increased sobriety and reduced criminality among drug using offenders. By demanding accountability, but also providing rehabilitative services to this drug using population, Drug Courts are creating safer and healthier communities, while reducing the numbers of offenders in custody and the financial costs to our communities."

— Judge Jeffrey S. Tauber, President of the National Association of Drug Court Professionals and Director of the National Drug Court Institute. Judge Tauber initiated and presided over the design and implementation of the Oakland Drug Court Program, one of the first in the nation, and was also the first chair of the California Association of Drug Court Professionals.

B.A.L.A.N.C.E. That's what Clinton and the Democrats offer.

:hi:

I'm off for a while, but love this discussion so I'll check in later.

[Dez]

31. Clinton had his 8 years.

And now is now. Someday, hopefully, America will be the compassionate country it claims to be, and to stop persecuting pot smokers for their drug of choice. It's legal to drink yourelf to death anywhere, but it's a crime to smoke a joint. If stopped by cops, they can seize your car, if you're a drunk, you get to keep your car. How did this insanity begin??

[mzmolly]

37. Wrong. If your drunk they can seize your car. Generally with Marijuana

unless your a dealer, you keep it.

My friends daughter is proof. As I said she got a $100 fine and a warning for being caught with pot, nothing more.

[Dez]

49. They can take your car if you have cannabis

on you. Not so for drunks being pulled over for being drunk, that was my comparison. Some drugs are ok, according to them, like pharmaceuticals or alcohol, but not cannabis. They wont legalize it cause they can't OWN it, it's a seed, and anyone can grow their own, rather than buying it.

[mzmolly]

51. I believe they'd have to have an amount sufficient to prove your a dealer?

I've known far to many people caught with pot that still have the cars they were driving when they were.

They can also take your car if you have heroin, meth, acid ect. But again, the amounts one has are key.

[SouthernDem2004]

63. Laws vary from state to state.

It does depend on the amount and the packaging in most cases but in most states it can be seized for any amount. We usually do not seize for minor offenses because it is not worth the paper work and it does not help anyone to deprive someone of their means to get to work or take care of their family.

[ulTRAX]

22. and do you expect the clueless Dems to save us?

The Democratic Party is clueless and has not exposed or fully stood up to the assault on America by the Right.

The Right is engaged in a direct assault on "progressive" government. Since Reagan they have tried to sabotage government finances to force cuts in domestic spending. Now in power they intend to legislate away the safety net as Bush is now trying to do with SS. Third they are working on the judicial front to negate the very legal basis for Progressive government.

It's a much bigger fight than the Dems admit to and if the Dems don't understand this... we need a Party that WILL stand up to the Right.

[Dez]

25. The Dems are spineless

And things aren't going to change until we the People stand up to BOTH parties, and tell them we are sick of this shit, and aren't going to take it anymore.

[mzmolly]

29. Yes I expect the Dems to "save us" in this regard.

Just like Clinton did in the 1990's.

[Dez]

32. When will they change the laws??

This drug war has been happening for decades.

[mzmolly]

33. The laws were changed in the Clinton years.

:hi:

[Dez]

40. What laws were changed?? n/t

[mzmolly]

41. Yes n/t

Changed.

[SOS]

58. And the results were awful

Largest increase in cannabis arrests in US history.

US cannabis arrests:

1991____287,900
1993____380,700
1994____481,100
1995____589,000
1996____641,600
1997____695,200
1998____682,900
1999____704,800
2000____734,500

Cannabis arrests up 155% under Clinton v. Bush Sr.

[Dez]

59. Thanks for those stats

Clinton was just as much a hypocrite as shrub when it comes to pot. And what I wont forgive him for is for not pardoning Leonard Peltier, but he pardoned Mark Rich!

[mzmolly]

65. Link?

Clinton did put more cops on the streets and the results were far from "awful" ... crime rates fell dramatically.

[SOS]

67. Link

From the Marijuana Policy Project. The figures are accurate and available from government sites as well.
Crime rates did indeed fall in the 90s, but not because millions of people were arrested for pot. The waning of the crack epidemic, smarter policing strategies and a good economy all helped bring down the crime rate. Also, the "crime rate" is based on FBI Part I Crimes described in their Uniform Crime Report (UCR). The crimes included in the rate are murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, theft and auto theft. Pot isn't even a consideration when evaluating crime in America.
Clinton was a fine president, but on the "war on drugs" he was a regressive triangulator, trying to defuse a right-wing attack issue by becoming worse than his Republican predecessor.

[mzmolly]

68. Thanks. Though I am not sure about the source, I don't doubt the info:

Clinton lowered the total crime rate because he put more cops on the streets. Arrests of all sorts went up, thus crime went down.

As a person who lived in poverty/crime stricken areas when Clinton was in office, I am grateful.

[ulTRAX]

34. clinton was a holding action

In the end Clinton biggest accomplishment was to turn back the Right's attempt to bankrupt the nation... but just as we got to the point we could pay down the debt... Bush sabotaged it again.

Clinton at best was a holding action. In many ways he reinforced the Right's attempt to frame the debate by working within the frames created by the Right. Unfortunately the DLC's strategy undercut the foundation of the Democratic Party itself. And you want to go back to this strategy? BTW... Clinton only got about 43% of vote in 1992. And Dole wasn't much of an opponent in 96. As the Dems lost Congress in 94... where's there proof the DLC strategy worked? .

[mzmolly]

38. Your obviously unfamiliar with Clintons record of accomplishment.

He held the bag of shit left him by the Republicans and left us a more prosperous safe America. That's what the record shows.

[googly]

42. And Clinton did that dealing with a majority repug congress...n/t

[mzmolly]

43. Indeed.

He was one of the best Presidents this country has ever seen. Not perfect, but damn gooood. ;)

[ulTRAX]

45. you see a hero and I see the culprit

You're making the political loss to Newt in 94... when the Dems lost the House... sound like it's an event without context. I think it's a direct result of the Democrats moving to the Right and undercutting their own positions. So where you see Clinton as the hero I see him largely responsible.

[ulTRAX]

44. I liked Clinton at the time

I liked Clinton at the time... at least compared to Bush1. The good economy and balanced budget was certainly a tribute to his leadership. But my comment was about how strategically he fit into the war against the Right.

If one looks at the Right's strategy two key areas come to mind... framing the debate and sabotaging government finances. In the battle of the budget all Clinton's work on getting to a surplus was soon reversed by Bush just at the time we could have started paying down the debt. Chalk one up for the Right. In following the DLC's belief that the Dems should moderate... Clinton worked within, and inadvertently reinforced, the Right's framework. The Dems didn't come to this sad point of standing for little overnight.

[mzmolly]

46. I honestly think Clinton's personal life played a far larger role in our

standing then any of Clinton's policies. Not to mention the stolen election in 2000.

Gore surelyl would have continued down the Clinton-esque road to prosperity, but restoring "honor and dignity to the WH" :eyes: was the ultimate rationale for the nightmare were in today.

:shrug:

[Dez]

53. I belong to no political party

but when the Republicans persecuted Clinton, I was so angry that they were wasting millions of OUR dollars to persecute him for something that never should have been that big of a deal, in my opinion. I mean, in Europe, this is not such a huge scandal. I don't know why Americans are so holier than thou, and these religious ones are really out to lunch, in my book, and have no business in office!

[mzmolly]

55. Agreed.

Your pottery is lovely BTW. :hi:

[Dez]

57. Thanks for the compliment

Mzmolly, you're the first person to comment on it :-)

Look, people think this drug war isn't that bad, like you said, your friend's daughter only got a $100 fine, but there are people in America wasting away in prisons for simple possession charges, and this is WRONG! ANd unless the people put pressure on the politicians, it will only get worse. Now they're invading BC with Texas Troopers! Where does this insanity end??

[mzmolly]

64. I gotta be honest. My cousin is one of those people. He was a dealer

and his friends testified against him for a deal themselves.

He's a victim of the three strikes law, and he's basically a good person. He's attending college now to be a counselor, and I think he'll turn things around. I do think it's a shame that people like him are in jail when many very dangerous criminals are let out to make room.

However, legalization is not a solution in and of itself.

IMHO, there are no easy answers.

[robbedvoter]

27. As a Governor in Texas I am pretty sure he got tougher sentencing

for minors. When he campaigned (on this very issue) he dragged J&B around - as models of parenting/ purity.

[FromTheLeft]

21. This isn't news...

We all know about his past riddled with drugs and drinking. What would be news is if he started giving out presdential pardons for prisoners who have 'found Jesus'.

[Dez]

26. That wont happen. n/t

[Califooyah Operative]

35. prison for pot?

no but he certainly cut financial aid for even those convicted of a minor drug offense, including marijuana possession, despite the fact that he was doing coke when he was in college.

[leftofthedial]

47. I hope someday I have the opportunity to piss on this piece of shit

He is undoubtedly my least favorite human being.

[Pushed To The Left]

50. I agree with you 100%

The drug war is a disgrace and one of the biggest violations of civil rights in this country today. I think that the war on medical marijuana patients shows the true colors of those who support drug laws. They are willing to go after the most helpless of our society for simply taking their medicine in the name of the drug war.

I don't think we will see an end to the drug war for quite some time, but a good first step is to take the right wing out of power. We need to band together behind the most progressive candidates with a realistic chance of winning. 9 times out of 10, that is the Democrat. However, if the Republicans nominate somebody like Ron Paul in 2008, it could be a different story! Another good way to fight against this is to support civil liberties groups and drug reform groups:

www.aclu.org The ACLU
www.pfaw.org People For The American Way
www.drcnet.org DRCNet
www.mpp.org Marijuana Policy Project
www.drugpolicyalliance.com Drug Policy Alliance

[Dez]

52. Thanks for the list of links!

If everyone would just email their representitives, and tell them that they are fed up with hearing about the horrors of the drug war, and they want their reps to do their part to end it, or else they will be voting for a canditate who votes to change the laws of injustice. People are basically immune to hearing about it though. They think it's not so bad, like what'shername said, her friend's daughter only got a $100 fine, see, the drug war is not so bad, Bullshit! It is that bad, and a lot of good people are wasting away in prisons all over America over this senseless war! There will ALWAYS be drugs! ALWAYS! The politicians, cops, DEA, FBI, all of them, can't stop it, they're not that powerful, and they never will be, God forbid!

[Sugarbleus]

54. The "War on Drugs" is an expensive bust...it's a FIASCO

Don't forget, George the Vulgar also did cocaine. He didn't serve any time for that either (not that I agree with criminalizing) but he WILL send OTHERS to prison for his same "indescretions"....Hell, it wasn't a youthful indescretion, he was an ADULT. He knew full well what he was doing and he LIKED IT. YET, others cannot get a break like his Highness did. SCREW THAT!

Certain Democrats (who will remain unnamed) also felt like they had to be "tough on crime" like their republican friends wanted, so they started a no excuses policy and sent all manner of folk to the pokey too. Asshats!

Donna Shalala <sp? came to our community and after meeting with the Medical Marijuana groups continued her hard line on NO MJ, Medical or otherwise!

So, in short, BOTH PARTIES have dirty hands in this. Yet, it IS galling that Bush can say what he says and do what he's done then turn around and behave like the virgin savior prince towards everyone else! :grr:

[Dez]

56. I agree, both parties are guilty

for their drug war crimes. Karma will get them for the lives they have ravaged and ruined. We here in DU need to get people organized to speak out to their representatives to voice their outrage over what the drug war is doing to people's lives.

[Goldmund]

62. This story is a total smokescreen.

It wouldn't surprise me if Rove's office has a hand in it. Nobody cares about this, and there is only one angle to this story: the hipocrisy. We better focus our energies on digging things in Gannon's general direction.