I guess it's back to "Fluffy Bunny" politics.

[Armstead]

I am completely disgusted. At this point I don;t give a damn who the democratic nominee. I'll dutifully support ABB, but who cares.

I officially give my support to shallowness and apathy. That's what's going to win.

I have been a Dean supporter, though not a rabid one. I know the mistakes he has made, and realize he's basically just a politician. But he still was opening up politics to something new.

I also believe Kucinich brought a breath of fresh air, and could have opened up the political debate to talk about real issues.

But I guess mediocrity and pink tutus and DLC "fluffy bunny" politics has won.

The media, the GOP and the Democrat Establishment have all succeeded in putting the straightjacket back on. Howard Dean had a bad night,said a few things he shouldn't. And so, he must be punished for his spontaneity. He must be taught a lesson. A lesson all politicians must learn:

Don't get too big for your britches and talk back to Al From. Don't actually give an unscripted answer to any reporter -- ever. Don't get "off message" or you'll be hounded for making gaffes.

And don't -- DON'T -- pay any attention to them dang liberals and progressives......Instead, listen to the corporate guys and the political elite. They know the score.

So it looks like another non-issue campaign. Let's talk about the horse race, and don't bother what the horses are saying.

Be prepared for a campaign in which the economy is all Bush's fault. Everything was rosy before January 2001. No problems before that. No siree. Democrats were perfect. Life was perfect in the 1990's.

Corporate power? Media concentration? Globalization? Fergetabout it. No problem. Free trade will solve out problems. We just have to grow some more. Git some more of those McJobs going.

We were right in going into Iraq. President Bush was just a little too, er, impatient. He just should have been a little nicer in the UN before invading, and waited a couple of more days.

Democrats will once again talk about Healthcare Reform, meaning maybe someday they'll try to perhaps sneak through some tiny benefit.

V-Chips and school uniforms will soon be hot debate items.

Maybe Bush will win. Maybe not. Frankly, in the scheme of things it probably won't matter. The underlying show will go on. The DC/NY revolving door will go on.

[JVS]

1. I like the bunny. It is soft and pretty.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

6. Sometimes soft. Sometimes not so soft.

Edit: Sorry Armstead. I got your drift.

[JVS]

7. Where's my Hasenpfeffer?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

10. No stew for you!

[JVS]

19. Hasenpfeffer isn't stew. It is more like BBQ chicken made with a rabbit.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. On Laverne and Shirley it is.

hasenpfeffer

SYLLABICATION: ha·sen·pfef·fer
PRONUNCIATION: häzn-ffr, -sn-
NOUN: A highly seasoned stew of marinated rabbit meat.
ETYMOLOGY: German : Hase, rabbit (from Middle High German, from Old High German haso; see kas- in Appendix I) + Pfeffer, pepper (from Old High German pfeffar, from Latin piper; see pepper).

[JVS]

52. Well, all the times I've had it, it didn't really seem like stew

More like a German version of General Tso's rabbit. When I think of stew I think of more liquid content.

[sangha]

58. Only on DU

could people debate this :-)

[polpilot]

45. Dean can't run against the repub AND the demo party. Go to the DLC

site and give ONE reason Howard shouldn't go 3rd party. He's been running against both parties and the pro-war, pro-establishment DOESN'T WANT Dean or his policies. Time for 3rd.

Dean '04...The Revolutionary Party

[Walt Starr]

2. No fluffy bunny politics for me

I gave up on that crap in 2002.

Hardcore all the way. I want my politics raw. I want to swallow a big ole glass of YEEEEEEEAAAAUGH!!!!

If the Democratic Party sends me the Third Way answer to Bob Dole, I'll go the fourth way.

[BurtWorm]

33. Walt, you are an inspiration!

Bumper sticker slogans are flying out of you! :toast:

[KissMyAsscroft]

3. Well said...I feel the same way.

I'm still voting ABB but it doesn't really mean as much.

[bobbyboucher]

4. Amen, Brother!

I just watched Dean's speech after the caucus and I'll be damned if I can figure out what all the hububaloo is about.

Scream it from the highest mountain, "Bush is a fraud and we will take our country back!"

To all the imposters, I raise my middle finger.

[candy331]

8. None for me please

It is an ill wind that blows no good and the bunny politics is a very ill wind that will soon blow out for the Democrats.

DEAN to the White house/his house for me.

[corporatewhore]

5. Life was totally perfect there was not anoz of social injustice under

clinton and when we bombed iraq in 1999 that was ok and that NAFTA/WTO thingy was for the benefit of devolping nations

[babzilla]

9. if you must go, make sure they drag you back kicking & screaming.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

11. A bunny in a pink tutu?

:D

[Classical_Liberal]

12. It's the caucus system

You have to make a certain percentage or join another camp, this may have hurt Dean bad in rural areas. If it was a primary he would have done better. Also Dean's campaign unfortunately started getting taken seriously by pundits and unfortunately Dean people reciprocated. Bad misake. You don't get them to respect you by kissing butt. No democrat can do this.

[Armstead]

16. It's just the system

We have allowed the media to gain so much power that a bunch of wine-sipping yuppies in DC and New York tell us what to think and who to vote for.

Anyone who even steps out of the mold slightly gets squashed like a bug. Demonized. Called crazy amd itrrational and too far left.

So we end up with McPolitics. One on every highway, no taste, nothing to challenge or offend. Just someone who has the looks and the right 10 second soundbite to satisfy everyone.

...Don';t mind me. I'm just in a venting mood tonite.

[nomaco-10]

13. Yep, if the current primary poll numbers....

are any indication of the outcome, we will indeed have "fluff" over substance, but that's what America wants, don't rock any boats, don't raise your voice, doesn't matter when they speak and all you hear is blah, blah, blah as long as they've got that "presidential" look. War, what war, you mean that little skirmish going on over there in the middle east, no big deal, whoever wins the nom will fix it. It's time we got back to our roots and started talking about what's really important, like getting our prison population right with god and our athletes off metabolite.
Circle those wagons and get ready for the democratic firing squad, coming soon to a primary near you.

[Adjoran]

14. What a defeatist attitude!

What, your guy loses ONE contest and now the whole campaign is crap?

Welcome to politics. Enjoy your stay.

The test for the Dean campaign is now. Can all the new, enthusiastic people stand up under a little adversity, or will they slink to the corner and pout?

I don't think Dean is a quitter. He has the money and the nationwide organization to compete for a long time. So why are some of his supporters seemingly so willing to throw in the towel, on Dean, on the race, on the Party, on the country? I heard they were so committed to change . . .

Buck up, Bucko!

Remember this little poem (by Ann Onimous):

If you think you cannot, you can't.
If you think you dare not, you don't.
If you'd love to win, but think that you can't
It's almost a cinch that you won't.

[Armstead]

17. It;s how he lost that bugs me

If Dean really were a wildman or radical, what has been done to him would be something that would make sense.

But he's basically a normal guy who brought a somewhat different take to things. If they can crucify someone like him, it's hard to envision that we'll ever deal with any kind of reality in politics ever again.

(Yes I'm feeling defeatist. Hopefully my enthusiasm will return, but this is how I feel right now.)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

27. Here's my take on how Iowans reacted to Dean

Armstead, you may have missed the thread in which I told about my relatives' reactions to the various candidates. Briefly, at a family gathering, nine relatives of mine who hate Bushboy also expressed their dislike of Howard Dean. They called him "cocky," "slick," and "the yuppie candidate."

I see my relatives as typical Midwesterners. A couple of them have lived in other states (Wisconsin and South Dakota--not exactly a recipe for culture shock), but most of them have lived in Minnesota all their lives. There may be something about Dean that is incompatible with traditional Midwestern views.

As an erstwhile Minnesotan who has spent a little more than half her life on the East and West coasts and in Japan, I can't get past the disconnect between Dean's fiery, populist style and his cautious, centrist, corporate-influenced, conventional wisdom policies. If you know your film history, you'll know what I mean when I say that he strikes me as being the False Maria.

[corporatewhore]

30. same here

while i agree with the sentiment of the orginal poster i agree with you about the dichotomy between deans rhetoric and record i was a dean supporter until i found out about his record esp dealings w/IBM and then again about him not wanting to cut the pentagon budget and wants to continue occupation I just fell in love w/kucinich after i read about him.

[Armstead]

32. From Metropolis

Right? Impressed? (unless I'm wrong, heh)

I know what you mean. Dean can come on too strong and all that. Maybe to me he seems fairly regular, because he's very northeast. But I can see how he would run people the wrong way.

But the problem I have about it is that it's hard to seperate how much of that is really to him, and how much to the media portrayal and the success of the GOP and DLC spin about him.

I've seen him in town hall forums where he's the soul of reasonableness and calm. Not the wild eyed leftist he often gets portrayed as.

So it's a question of chicken and egg. What bothers me about him is that like him or not, he's at least being fairly plain spoken. But that plain-spokeness gets distorted into being twisted by the media filters and the centrist Dems as "gaffes" and "too liberal" and "angry" and all the rest.

I'm just so tired of everything being turned into white bread.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

36. Verrrry good!

I barely remember Metropolis myself. :-)

But for some reason the episode of the False Maria has stuck with me since that film history class an unspecified number of years ago, and it's the image I keep coming back to when I consider Howard Dean.

He is one of the "centrist Dems" you refer to above, despite the way he plays insurgent populist in his public appearances. Even if he wins the White House, I don't see him challenging corporate domination or the military-industrial complex, a concern that is dear both to you and to your fellow Dean supporter Ulysses.

[ulysses]

57. maybe he wouldn't

but, as Armstead posted a while back, at least he *listens* to the left, which is an improvement over the DLC-approved Way Of Being. May not be much, but I think it's all we're likely to realistically get this time. In a better world, dogs don't die and Dennis Kucinich wins the Democratic nomination. Alas.

Corporate domination alone is a long fight ahead, and probably has very little to do with electoral politics. I don't quite share Armstead's bleak outlook, but he's right about the fuzzy bunnies.

[corporatewhore]

37. I love his righteous anger (believe me i feel it)

i just dont like his record

[denverbill]

55. Look at the difference between media treatment of Dean and Bush.

Dean makes an intelligent, lucid, but off-the-cuff comments, and he's treated as a dangerous lunatic.

Bush can't string 3 words together correctly, and he can do no wrong.

Bush says 'You with us or against us' 'we're on a crusade' or 'bring it on', but Dean is the lunatic?

[CWebster]

43. The yuppie candidate?

And what would they call the others? Kerry with his pompous pronouncements and safe insider positions---truly you can get no more yuppie than he, he who now co-opts Dean's message. Edwards with his divisive tactics, claiming to be the babyfaced child of innocence, proud of his IRW vote, author of the patriot act---and talk about scary. Did you hear him go on about how he would be searching for terrorists under the bed? Such a slick pretty boy. Kucinich didn't have any problem with him--no not at all. But then, Kucinich always had that streak of authoritarian morality about him. I have YET to hear any Kucinich supporter address this honestly.

And yet, these are the preferences to Dean who actually risked talking, along with Gephardt, about change and the things that matter to farmers and workers. He is from rural Vermont, progressive and independent as well--and similar in some respects to Minnesota more than Mass or South Carolina. So, your argument doesn't work for me. The people of Iowas may have thought they were bucking expectations and exercizing their own independence by voting against the expected leader but they may have sealed their own fate. All the abuse heaped on Dean for the last few months may have taken it's toll, but Kerry's day may be yet to come and it will be ugly.

Iowa made their bed, and they deserve to lie in it---I am angry that they bought all the media dirt and only added fuel to the stoning of Howard Dean and forced the rest of us to lower our expectations.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

46. I didn't say that I agreed that

Dean was "the yuppie candidate." I was just reporting that my rellies saw him that way. He definitely has an image problem with these very typical Midwesterners. Interestingly, none of them mentioned "anger" as a factor in their dislike, so I don't think that it's media-generated but a genuine gut reaction.

As far as Kucinich's deal with Edwards is concerned, that has been discussed in at least half a dozen threads in the past two days. It is odd that the supporters of a very ideologically "impure" candidate (I mean that in the sense of being an odd mix of liberal and conservative positions) are so fired up about two candidates who are personal friends and who were polling fifth and sixth going into the caucuses striking up a one-day tactical alliance to maintain both their viability.

Remember that everyone, including myself, and including Kucinich, I'm sure, expected Dean to conquer Iowa. Although Dean supporters seem to think that Kucinich should have alligned with their candidate, simply from a tactical point of view, you can't blame Kucinich for believing that Dean wouldn't need the extra support.

[CWebster]

50. The point being

that in an environment that slobbers over the image of a man in the uniform, Kucinich's stunch ideology would be impractical. except, maybe to him.

This has NOTHING to do with support of Dean or expectation of Kucinich to throw his votes to Dean--I for one, never expected him to. I was surprised, though that he didn't stand his ground and sold out his supporters to his personal friend. the one thing I truly admired Kucinich for and he turned out to be just another inside player.

[corporatewhore]

31. While im not a dean supporter i think this might help you feel better

My old "teacher" in a christian "school" said that she always voted for someonelike lieberman in the democratic primary so she could have a say in who got the ticket incase the republican lost.

[JNelson6563]

39. My enthusiasm is in tact

but I so share your view of what took place on Monday night. That weren't no "voice of the people" we heard and we all know it.

I've put a lot into this party and to see a Riccio/Mary Queen of Scotts scene played out, well, I am seriously rethinking the level of dedication at this point....

And that's saying something because you should see what I've accomplished this far. ;-)

Julie

[Ramsey]

15. I hope you are wrong

But tonight, at this moment, I fear you are right. :-(

[sweetheart]

18. i feel that way also armstead, especially about the drugs war

that uses taxpayer funds to declare ME a terrorist for smoking a joint when i please. As i am a terrorist enemy of the state hated evil al cannabis-queda osama bong laden ;) WTF?

I know that i am really being asked to vote, no matter what for an administration that will, in the longer term, even after ABB winning... put a gun to my head, call me a criminal terrorist and try to put me in prison.

Fuck them all... i should not vote... but ABB... i'm a patriot, and i love human rights more than they do...

BTW: ABB is a large engineering company based in sweden, and only just in the last 7 minutes did i figure out that you guys weren't saying "bechtel" in code in all these posts... .. i'm such a dummy... but i wonder how many other dummies like me are reading... http://www.abb.se/ instead of "Anything But Busheviks"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

20. Fluffy Bunny or the Pablum Parade.

I've come to a similar state of disgust. Unlike you, however, I will not surrender to the Loyalty Oaths, and have my vote taken for granted. Lives have been lost due to "politics as usual", innocent lives lost so that politicians can parade their alleged patriotism.

I've held my nose and voted (D) too many times. I've watched our party fall under the enchantment of "triangulation" and the DLC's cry of becoming more republican and selling out on the issues that others have fought for. Equality, Women's rights, Labor rights, Human Dignity, the environment, peace, Affirmative Action, Education for all, Health Care, all watered down, deconstructed, in the name of "compromise" and "bipartisanship". The average American has been bamboozled and robbed. The average Democrat has been told that standing up to corporate America is "too liberal", that pursuing peace appears "too unpatriotic", that "supporting our troops" requires even more money for our bloated military, at the cost of a decent life for all citizens.

The Democratic Party won't reform unless it's forced to. The only weapon we have is our votes.

If they want mine, they'll have to show me that they deserve it by becoming the "Party of the People" once again, instead of the party of appeasers who cringe before right wing radio broadcasters, and grovel in the name of "unity".

There are courageous and ethical Democratic politicians working hard for the people. They're being shunted aside and ignored or labeled "the fringe". They'll still get my vote. But, the compromisers, the political opportunists who'll do anything, say anything, sell anything, like the 3 senators remaining in this race, will not.

[Expat Sue]

21. I'm saying no to fluffy bunnies

I'm with you Armstead and Bandera. This election is about much more than whether we get someone w/a "D" beside their name in the presidency. This is fundamentally about taking the party back from the fluffy bunnies. It has drifted so far that any spirit or passion is now mocked. I will not let the media pick my candidate. I'm staying firmly in the Dean camp b/c I feel he is the only one that can substantially change the party and take it back from the corporate-loving supplicants. I'm not holding my nose any longer--if the Dems want my vote they can earn it.

[killbotfactory]

23. I hear ya...

The media has lobotomized the political debate.

...but it ain't over til it's over...

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mouse7]

25. Wrong Bunny. You need this bunny...

Dean just raised over 1 MIL since Iowa. Since Iowa proved organizations are useless and ad buys are everything, Dean is still in control of his own destiny. He needs to laugh at that damn scream of his in public. But with ads being this dominating, Dean still hold most of the cards as long as he can continue to raise money like that.

[corporatewhore]

26. well newswhores donthink that freetrade rampent corporatism holy wars for

oil the 45+million americans who dont have healthinsurance the growing imperalistic nature of the us facist (un)PATRIOT acts gross human rights abusers that we breed and train over in fort benning georgia are as important as poll numbers hairdos accents and what they deem to be "electable" so whatever to hell with my reasoning skills i will vte for whoever ted koppel tells me too

[goodhue]

28. maybe you've watched too much Donnie Darko

[Printer70]

29. You said it

What more needs to be said? The corporate wing of the Democratic party has stifled the voice of progressives...again.

[joefree1]

34. F*ck the fluffy bunnys, slap this art on your chest

[Guaranteed]

41. Sweet. You said it! nt

[NewHampster]

48. I'm wearing my new button already - Thanks joefree1

and here's another

[BurtWorm]

35. Thank you for saying what needs to be said!

You know there really is a Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, and it's not in the center of it.

[dusty64]

38. Yup, looks like

time to settle for the same old, same old. The "mushy" middle appears to be winning, don't want anyone to make waves against our establishment. I'll vote for the nominee, but it doesn't look like I'll be too enthused about it. Blah, blah, blah, our wonderful "leadership" can't even kill this atrocious spending bill chock full of nasty extremist ideas. Yeah, I'm thrilled with the status quo, its worked SO well for us the last 10 years.

[CWebster]

40. You got it, Armstead

As usual.

[Iverson]

42. Fluffy Bunny would be an improvement.

Fluffy bunnies are soft and cuddly and reproduce in their spare time.

I don't have a good replacement image, though, because I can't think of any violent bimbos that accomodated fascism.

[CWebster]

44. Kick

:kick:

[sangh0]

47. The media and the GOP listen to Al Frum?

That's news to me

[goobergunch]

60. Not to me (n/t)

[Cheswick2.0]

49. agreed

tired of all the hate coming from my own party. I won't vote democratic if any of the DLC clones are the nominee.

[jpgray]

51. Man Armstead, what the hell are you smoking?

He's a Madison Ave. guy who has the same watery stances as the other major candidates, such as: "change parts of NAFTA, don't repeal it", "keep Defense spending high", "I'll meet with big corporate contributors, but support corporate reform", "I'll tout my endorsements from the insider elite, but I'm an outsider", "change parts of the Patriot Act, don't repeal it", "more UN language in the IWR and it'd be fine", "environmental protection didn't matter when I was governor, but it does now trust me", the list goes on.

Your "Corporate power? Media concentration? Globalization?" line made me laugh out loud--he has the same positions as John Kerry on these, insider milquetoast extraordinaire according to this post. So in other words, where are you coming up with this nonsense? What positions make Dean this mystical leftist savior? Support Kucinich if you are after that--he's actually the real deal.

Is it just the movement? In my opinon, it should be the issues. The only progressive and outisder candidate is Kucinich. Dean does not stack up. I like Howard Dean, but for *lefites* to love the guy over KUCINICH is fucking crazy to me, since his positions are the same as most other mainstream candidates.

I'm being practical in this election. If I voted my heart I'd go Kucinich in the primary, and Nader in the GE. But frankly, Bush has to go before I do any of that--guy is just too fucking dangerous. I will support the insider moderate types, but I won't obfuscate their positions and call them something they plainly are NOT.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. Some (not ALL) of the Dean supporters

have done so in the belief that he's more "electable" than Kucinich.

But what if that turns out not to be the case?

Basically, I agree with jpgray. If you want someone who will kick establishment ass once he's in the White House, not just hold rousing rallies on the campaign trail, Dean is not your man, and I am genuinely mystified as to why people think otherwise.

[Armstead]

63. Dean is a compromise

Yes, he's basically a centrist...Actually I'd call it a moderate.

But that's the point. He isn't a staunch liberal/progressive's dream date. We thought he was someone who the 'centrists" could accept, who was also at least aware of those on the left. He says things the otehrs weren't saying.

After hearing for so long "Get pragmatic. Nothing can get done if we can't get into power first, many of us saw Dean as the moderate alternative...But nooooooo. The attacks dogs went after Dean like he was a screaming leftist banchee. And Dean supporters were cast as some bizarre cult."

Lydia. You're right. maybe when it comes down to what he'd actually do if elected it wouldn't be a lot diffeent than the otehrs. But I'm optimistic enough to at least believe he would be more open to our porisiotns and concerns -- instead of pretending we don;t exist or insulting us. He would address them as far as he could. And it's at least opening the door.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

65. If you start by compromising

before you have to (and I am fully prepared for the possibility that I may have to in the end, even as I'm about to sign off and leave for a DK district organizing meeting), won't it always be in the back of your mind that you could have/should have tried for what you really want?

[Cheswick2.0]

56. kucinich is not the real deal to many of us

his voting record is not all that liberal. It really depends what issues matter to you. He voted for the late term abortion ban. He voted for a bill that allows children as young as 13 to be tried as adults and he voted for the Flag burning ammendment. He isn't the real deal to me.

[corporatewhore]

61. different strokes i feel that free trade and health care and iraq

he sold me on getting out of Iraq (my father will be redeployed unless hegets it) universal healthcare,and getting out of NAFTA/WTO
I do admire dean for his revolutionary grassroots internet campaign(cyber roots maybe?) and his strong attack on the DLC god knows i wanted to tell them off to there faces too(i just wish he had a more liberal/notso pro biz record)

[poskonig]

54. It keeps going, and going, and .....

:kick:

[Terwilliger]

59. My question is...

when did you think it would be anything else?

[Armstead]

64. I thought between Bush, Iraq, corporate scandals. and....

the humiliation of the "business as usual" stance of the Democrats since 2000 that something had at least started to open up. That the nomination process would be more of a contest of ideas.

Naive, I realize. But I thought the sparks would at least generate some light.

[corporatewhore]

62. Lets have another cheer for tans hairdos and accents!!!!