Is the b**sh administration fascist?

[Zhade]

Poll question: Is the b**sh administration fascist?

In my view, their ideals, methods, and views line up with fascism. Yet I was informed by a poster in another thread that because they don't fit the following definition, they are not fascist:

fas·cism Audio pronunciation of "fascism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fshzm)
n.

1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.


http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=fascism

Now, I could be wrong in thinking that a person or group can be fascist without that type of government being the prevailing one at this point in time. If so, please clue me in. I think it's correct to argue that one can be fascist without having the governmental structure in which to exercise that fascism, but I've been wrong before.

So what do you DUers think?

(And to the poster this was inspired by: this isn't a pissing match, but an attempt to clarify the prevailing view of the question and see how out of touch I may or may not be.)

[BrklynLiberal]

1. They are sure working hard at it.

[Capn Sunshine]

2. The Bush family and fascists go back several generations

A dictatorship ha been the expressed preference of Tokey Mc Cokespoon since he was first selected.

The neocon goal is the classic definition of fascism: repressive dictatorship run at the whim of large corporations for their benefit.

[Padraig18]

3. How can they be?

Do we have a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls or supression of the opposition through through terror and censorship.

[EFerrari]

5. Is this a trick question?

Then, there's the matter of overt or covert dictatorship.

Nascent socioecomonic controls AND suppression have been developing since 1/20/2001.

And there definitely is suppression of opposition through terror and censorship.

So, maybe the term should be prepubescent fascism because it is still, ah, developing its potential impact on the "electorate".

[Padraig18]

7. Specific, factual examples, please. n/t

[Zhade]

11. You can't seriously be missing the third example.

Does it have to be spelled out? I'll give you a hint: two words.

[Padraig18]

13. You know, an answer rather than sarcasm would be refreshing. n/t

[Zhade]

21. The words are "terror warnings".

You know, those alerts designed to intimidate and silence the opposition, the ones that always pop up at opportune times for the BFEE.

[EFerrari]

17. Let's see

1. Dictatorship: I can't prove that Mr. Bush was elected. If you asked me to produce evidence, I could not.

That leaves the two other branches.

Congress: Hamstrung. Best example, the reason I can't prove Mr. Bush as elected is that Republicans did not allow voter verified ballot legislation to get out of committee.

Supreme Court: Dominated by conservatives who won't say they're Republicans.

Where's the balance or the check? Power accrues to the Executive.

2. Socioeconomic controls and suppression: Not my area. What occurs to me, the example of the voting machine distribution in Ohio during the 004 election. Conservative Republican precincts were well equipped; poor, black and student democratic precincts were not. Machines withheld, day long lines, an army of "challengers" IN an around these precincts to intimidate voters. And, Ohio got the scrutiny.

You could say that union busting is also a form of suppression. No union between you and the loss of overtime pay, benefits, working conditions. But, first there would have to be a substantial industrial sector to unionize. Unhappily, there is not.

3. Control through terror and censorship. See Tom Ridge's color chart. See clips of Dave Letterman and Keith Olbermann holding up WH faxes with talking points. See media blackout on issues showing the present government in an unfavorable light.

Also, (see this this a.m.?) LexisNexis is represented by the rightwing PR company Creative Research Concepts. LexisNexis with widely used by newsmen. CRC has ties to rightwingers from the Swift Boat Liars to the RNC. (That's a pretty compact array.) Once again, power accrues to the executive through his corporate supporters controlling the press.

4. Not mentioned in the definition in the OP, Corporations have more power in setting public policy than the electorate or their representatives. (I should remember the quote about "corporatists" and fascism but do not.)

Pick it apart. This is an argument I suspect I will be having for the foreseeable future. Might as well get it right.

/typo

[Zhade]

22. Nice sketch. You get it.

There's more, no doubt, but you're on the right track. Good examples.

I wish WE were the ones who were wrong, though!

[EFerrari]

26. Me, too. Never thought the need would arise to analyze this point. :(

[charles_nys]

23. Yes, the * family forture was made off the Nazi's....

http://www.rense.com/general26/dutch.htm


I found this document on a newsgroup:

The GW Bush Gang: IG Farben 2001
by Robert Lederman

"What my cabinet shows is that I am not afraid to surround myself
with strong and competent people...a good executive is one that
understands how to recruit people and how to delegate authority
and responsibility." -- GW Bush 1/2/2001

As promised GW Bush has recruited competent and experienced
advisors. Despite their seeming diversity however they have a
common denominator. The America they reflect is the oil,
pharmaceutical, armament, Wall Street and eugenics interests long
associated with the Bush family.

Seventy years ago a similar configuration of oil, pharmaceutical,
chemical, military supply and eugenics interests were organized
by Wall Street into IG Farben/Standard Oil -- Hitler's industrial
powerhouse. To grasp the real significance of what GW Bush's
cabinet has been brought together to accomplish it is essential
to understand the history of IG Farben, its relationship with
American corporations and how together they applied modern
technology to the task of eugenics or scientific racism.

According to former US Justice Dept. Nazi War Crimes prosecutor
John Loftus -- who is today the director of the Florida Holocaust
Museum -- "The Bush family fortune came from the Third Reich," --
Sarasota Herald-Tribune 11/11/2000
http://www.newscoast.com/headlinesstory2.cfm?ID=35115
Link doesn't work
But I found one here:
http://www.rense.com/general26/dutch.htm

Along with the Rockefellers (Standard Oil, Chase Manhattan Bank),
Mellons (Gulf Oil, Alcoa Aluminum), DuPonts (DuPont Chemicals),
General Motors and Henry Ford, banks and shipping companies
operated by the Bush family were crucial players in setting up
the industrial power behind the Third Reich. These companies
poured hundreds of millions of dollars into IG Farben and
provided it with technology for tactically-essential synthetic
materials -- while withholding the same materials and patents
from the US government.

The Rockefeller family, long aligned with the Bushes, owned
Standard Oil. Through a stock transfer they became half owners of
Germany's IG Farben with Farben likewise owning almost half of
Standard Oil. According to the Encyclopedia Brittanica, IG Farben
built and operated more than 40 concentration camps in
Nazi-occupied Europe, including Auschwitz.

At their slave labor/factory/death camps chemicals, weapons,
drugs, synthetic fuels and other materials vital to the Nazi war
effort were manufactured. In addition, eugenicists like Dr. Josef
Mengele used the human subjects in the camps for experiments the
data from which are today the basis for many drugs marketed by
the pharmaceutical industry-not too surprising in light of the
fact that more Americans die from prescription drugs than from
any other single cause.

At the end of WWII the allies split up IG Farben into companies
that are now the top pharmaceutical concerns on earth among them
Bayer, Hoescht, BASF, the Agfa-Gevaert Group and Cassella AG.
Many of Wall Streets favorite pharmaceutical/chemical companies
behind the proliferation of genetically-altered foods, transgenic
animals, human cloning, dangerous psychiatric drugs, deadly
vaccines and pesticides-such as Aventis-are subsidiaries of these
same companies.

War provides the necessary medium in which this witches brew of
oil, eugenics, pharmaceuticals, munitions and Wall Street
investing can reach maximum growth. Likewise, war is also the
essential frame of reference for the newly formed GW Bush
administration.

The high-profile minorities who are working as Bush advisors have
been hand-picked, funded and carefully cultivated by right wing
think tanks and conservative foundations with a white supremacist
philosophy in order to provide cover for their anti-poor,
anti-minority eugenics agenda.

For those who scoff at the validity of comparing the Bush
administration to the Nazis and IG Farben please note the
following. I'm not suggesting that GW Bush is a literal Nazi nor
am I implying that everyone who is an oil or pharmaceutical
company executive automatically deserves to be linked to IG
Farben. That the Bush wealth and prominence in American politics
is derived from Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker's support
of Hitler is a historical fact. If the connection ended in 1945
with the destruction of Nazi Germany that might have been the end
of it-it didn't end there however.

Not only has the eugenics agenda continued but many of the top
Nazis who were advancing it during WWII were brought to the US
after the war and installed in academia, the media, government
research institutions and the CIA-by the same American officials
who worked with the Bush family to build up Nazi Germany in the
first place. Their ideas formed the basis for much of the agenda
promoted by this nation's most influential right-wing think
tanks-the same think tanks that are the sponsors of GW Bush and
virtually every one of his appointees.

Why is it significant that many of Bush's staff and cabinet
appointees are former pharmaceutical company executives as was
GW's father, former President George Bush? These corporations are
voraciously patenting the earth's life forms-its plants,
bacteria, viruses, animals and even human genetic lineages.
Reproduction of plants, animals and humans may eventually be
totally controlled by these corporations, genetically-altered,
recombined into chimeric life forms and exploited for profit.

The Human Genome Project, as it admits on the very first page of
its website > http://vector.cshl.org/eugenics.html <, is derived
from the eugenics movement in the US and Nazi Germany during the
first half of the 20th century. The Eugenics Records Office at
Cold Springs Harbor NY-where American eugenics started-was built
by the Harriman family -- the Bushes' Wall Street business
partners in funding Hitler. This is the new frontier of
colonialism in the 21st century -- the total domination and
exploitation of the earth and everything on it -- the New World
Order both former President Bush and Adolf Hitler so frequently
called for.

While my writings focus on the Republican aspect of this agenda
there is no question that many Democrats are participants and
that none of these things could be accomplished without the full
"bipartisan support" we hear about each and every day.

Some of the men and women who do the thinking for GW Bush:

-- Vice President, Dick Cheney, arguably the real
President-elect, was one of papa Bush's top advisors. His
company, Haliburton, is one of the nation's largest recipients of
government contracts, supplying military equipment, oil services
and infrastructure. Cheney epitomizes corporate-welfare and like
most of Bush's appointees is a multi-millionaire who will receive
huge financial benefits from the administrations' policies and
any wars it manages to get the US into.

-- Secretary of Labor Linda Chavez -- who is outspokenly
anti-union -- was a research fellow at the CIA's Manhattan
Institute during 1993 and 1994 and has received almost $200,000
in grants from the John M. Olin Foundation, a notorious
right-wing fund derived from a family business in munitions and
chemicals with roots in white supremacy. Despite her Hispanic
surname she is an outspoken advocate for the English First
Movement. Chavez is president of the Center for Equal
Opportunity, based in Washington, D.C. an organization dedicated
to eliminating affirmative action. On their website Chavez quotes
Charles Murray, author of The Bell Curve, a classic of modern
racial eugenics which has become the "bible" for the anti-welfare
anti-affirmative action movement.

-- Secretary of Health and Human Services, Wisconsin Gov. Tommy
G. Thompson, is known for his controversial welfare reforms-based
in large part on two books by Charles Murray, Losing Ground and
The Bell Curve. Murray was a consultant for the Wisconsin welfare
reform program. Thompson's protege, Jason Turner, was later
brought to NYC where he has run Mayor Giuliani's
characteristically brutal welfare elimination program. Turner
became notorious for quoting the motto on the gates over
Auschwitz -- "Arbeit Macht Frei-work shall make you free." He is
frequently a guest with Charles Murray in panel discussions at
the CIA's Manhattan Institute and other Bush-connected think
tanks. Murray wrote the Bell Curve while a fellow at the
Manhattan Institute where his pseudo-scientific research on the
genetic inferiority of African Americans was primarily financed
by the Pioneer Fund. Since 1937 the Pioneer Fund has promoted
eugenics and the ideology of white racial superiority.

-- Secretary of Energy, Spencer Abraham, who served as Vice
President Dan Quale's chief of staff, spent years trying to
abolish the very agency he will now head. His legislative
positions include being against higher fuel efficiency standards
for cars, being against government regulations for industry and
support for opening up national parklands to oil drilling. He is
a recipient of oil company contributions totaling more than
$221,000 according to the NY Times. The American Petroleum
Institute has said it looks forward to working with Abraham.
Abraham helped found the conservative law group the Federalist
Society which specializes in eliminating social programs,
affirmative action, welfare and bilingual education. The society
is funded by the John M. Olin Foundation, the Sarah Scaife
Foundation, the Bradley Foundation, and the Lilly
Endowment-America's leading far right think tanks. Among its most
prominent members are Supreme Court Justices Scalia and Thomas
whose questionable election ruling gave Bush his illegitimate
Presidency. Spokespersons for the Federalist Society include Bell
Curve author Charles Murray, Manhattan Institute fellow Abigail
Thernstrom, and Dinesh da*(TM)Souza of the American Enterprise
Institute.

-S-ecretary of Education, Rod Paige, the latest African American
Bush appointee, is a conservative public schools administrator in
Texas and decades-long crony of the Bush family who supports
vouchers, tying teacher pay directly to test scores and school
privatization -- all of which will negatively impact African
American students by destroying public education.

-- Secretary of Defense, Donald H. Rumsfeld was Secretary of
Defense under President Ford. Rumsfeld like Powell, Cheney, Rice
and numerous other Bush administration officials is a salesman
for the Star Wars Missile Defense Shield. He served four terms in
the US Congress where he voted against Medicare, anti-poverty
programs like Headstart, food stamps and various healthcare
proposals. Rumsfeld, who formerly headed Searle Pharmaceuticals,
is part of the drug company axis within the Bush administration.
Former President Bush was director of Eli Lilly, OMB head
Mitchell E. Daniels was also senior executive of Eli Lilly and AG
John Ashcroft is known as a lobbyist for pharmaceutical
companies. Dr. Gail R. Wilensky -- one of numerous John M. Olin
grant recipients attached to Bush -- is the principal author of
GW's Medicare plan. Wilensky serves on the boards of eight health
care companies in which she owns more than $12 million in stock.

-- Secretary of State, Colin Powell is a lifelong operative of
the CIA/military-industrial complex. While working for the
Pentagon he earned his present stature by helping cover up the
Mai Lai massacre, the contra/arms-cocaine deal and Gulf War
Syndrome. Powell's reputation as a hero derives from presiding
over a war in which US troops were used as guinea pigs for drug
companies' experimental vaccines so that they could "safely"
fight George Bush's friend Sadamn Hussein -- who had been
supplied with chemical and biological weapons by the Bush
administration. Unlike most of GW's appointees of color, Powell
proudly admits he owes his career to affirmative action yet
willingly joins an administration that considers ending
affirmative action a top priority.

-- Secretary of the Treasury, Paul H. O'Neill is the chairman of
Alcoa Aluminum, one of the world's worst polluters and a leading
corporate supporter of Nazi Germany and eugenics. O'Neill owns
1.6 million shares of Alcoa, worth more than $50 million. During
WWII Alcoa negotiated a deal with the Nazis and IG Farben to
supply Germany's war machine rather than the US military with
aluminum. "If America loses this war," said then Secretary of the
Interior Harold Ickes on June 26, 1941, "it can thank the
Aluminum Corporation of America ." Alcoa produces hundreds
of millions of tons of fluoride. This highly toxic waste
byproduct of aluminum has been linked in thousands of medical
studies to cancer and other degenerative diseases. In the 1950's
Alcoa arranged to have it added to our nation's drinking water
rather than disposed of as toxic waste. During WWII in IG
Farben's slave labor camps Nazis scientists discovered that by
adding fluoride to the drinking water they could make prisoners
more submissive to authority. .O'Neill is a fellow at the RAND
Corporation and American Enterprise Institute, two more extreme
right-wing think tanks.

-- Attorney General John Ashcroft is a self-styled moral crusader
as strongly anti-abortion as he is enthusiastic about the death
penalty. Last year, Ashcroft received an honorary degree from Bob
Jones University. He is closely aligned with the Christian
Coalition, Pat Robertson and Southern heritage groups which
admire the Confederacy and defend the institution of slavery as
practiced in the South. He is known among lobbyists as an
advocate for drug companies and the automotive industry and for
preventing consumers from suing HMO's. The furor over Ashcroft's
anti-abortion views is being played out exactly as planned by
Team Bush. Not only will the Bush administration never make
abortions illegal, if anything the eugenics agenda that underlies
the Bush family history guarantees that abortion, sterilization
and other technologies intended to limit population-including
war, chemical exposure, pesticide use in urban areas,
genetically-altered foods and vaccines-will proceed at an
unprecedented level. The Bush gang are delighted to see
Democrats, women's rights advocates and the left focusing on
Ashcroft while virtually ignoring the other Bush appointees.

-- Secretary of Commerce Donald L. Evans is an insider in the
Texas "oil mafia" and is GW's closest friend and confidant. He's
also friend, confidant and contributor to one of America's
biggest recipients of government contacts, Halliburton's Dick
Cheney.

-- Office of Management and Budget Director Mitchell E. Daniels
Jr., was senior executive of the Eli Lilly drug company and was
previously the president of the arch-conservative Hudson
Institute. Daniels, who advocates strict enforcement of laws
against casual drug users, was busted for drugs in 1970.

Bush and Eugenics links

http://www.geocities.com/alanjpakula/triplecrown.html
http://www.shorejournal.com/elkhorn/
http://www.bartcop.com/nazigop.htm

Past articles by Robert Lederman about West Nile Virus, Bush,
Giuliani, Manhattan Institute and Eugenics can be found at:
http://Baltech.org/lederman/spray/

Robert Lederman, President of A.R.T.I.S.T.
(Artistsa*(TM) Response To Illegal State Tactics)
[e-mail] [phone]

Please forward and post widely-Thanks!
And don't forget-IMPEACH GW BUSH!

[alfredo]

52. Gore Vidal used the term "Crypto Fascist"

to describe William F Buckley.

[Zhade]

8. By your argument, can we conclude...

...that there are no socialists, since America is not governed by a socialist government?

Are there no racists, simply because racists like Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond never managed to keep the government officially racist like they would have preferred?

[robbedvoter]

60. Pick from the 14 features of fascism - how many do apply?

The 14 Defining Characteristics Of Fascism by Dr. Lawrence Britt
Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler
(Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and
several Latin American regimes.
Britt found 14-defining characteristics common to each:
1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make
constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other
paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on
clothing and in public displays. TOP
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of
enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are
persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of
"need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of
torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of
prisoners, etc. TOP
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The
people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to
eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or
religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists,
etc. TOP
4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic
problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government
funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military
service are glamorized. TOP
5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be
almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional
gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality
are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of
the family institution. TOP
6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by
the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled
by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and
executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. TOP
7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational
tool by the government over the masses.
8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist
nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to
manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common
from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are
diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. TOP
9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business
aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the
government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial
business/government relationship and power elite. TOP
10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor
is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are
either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. TOP
11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to
promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia.
It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or
even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly
attacked. TOP
12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the
police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are
often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties
in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with
virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.
13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are
governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to
government positions and use governmental power and authority to
protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in
fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be
appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. TOP
14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a
complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns
against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of
legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries,
and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their
judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.
http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm

[Kerrytravelers]

4. No, of course not.

Isn't my brown shirt beautiful? Here, try this Kool-Aid.

[Melodybe]

6. Apparently calling them on it is bad for liberals, new catch word

corporatists.

Sure Musilini used it, but most haven't heard it, and it sure fits.

Even though I may call them corporatists, in my heart I know that they are fascists.

[Zhade]

10. The father of Italian fascism would know fascism.

And he called fascism "corporatism"...

[neweurope]

9. Yes they are. As to the definition: It describes what USED to be

fascist. The world has moved on however. Hitler to-day would not need to oppress the press as much as he did for instance. There are subtler means meanwhile. So I think it's the outcome that counts. And that is definitely fascist. (On edit: We have people with long arms meanwhile, too, who can shoot themselves in the back of the had with a gun, and small planes have never been so unsafe)

Also there are different definitions. If we go to Mussolini or to Spain we'll be much closer than if we compare to Hitler.

-----------------------

Remember Fallujah

Bush to The Hague!

[indepat]

12. Corporatists, for absolutely everything done benefits corporations,

almost always to the detriment of the society as a whole. Absolutely everything.

[Jack Rabbit]

14. The Bush Junta is Yuppie Fascist

EDITED to corred date of article below

It is similar to, but distinct from, classical fascism.

From Democratic Underground
Dated February 5 and 12, 2002

The Rise of Yuppie Fascism
Part One
Part Two

Yuppie fascism is the new form of right-wing tyranny. Last week, we examined the origins and theory of yuppie fascism. This week, we shall examine yuppie fascism in practice.

Let us first re-examine some of the highlights of last week. We examined the phenomenon of yuppie fascism, also called post-fascism, largely through the work of Hungarian intellectual and politician G. M. Tamas, whose article "On Post-Fascism", which appeared in the Summer 2000 edition of the Boston Review, is recommended. According to Tamas, the main feature of fascism, whether classical fascism or yuppie fascism, is a hostility to universal citizenship resulting in actions that constitute a reversal of the Enlightenment tendency to conceptualize citizenship as a necessary part of the human condition. Furthermore, the phenomenon of yuppie fascism adapts this classical fascist feature to a world where the power of the nation-state is in decline.

Last week, we also defined classical fascism by listing some points from an encyclopedia article co-authored by Il Duce, Benito Mussolini, himself. We gave those points in the order Mussolini presented them. Let us now reexamine them in a slightly different order, rearranged in order of the importance of the difference between classical fascism and yuppie fascism.

First, Mussolini said in fascism the state is absolute. However, in recent history, the state has declined in power and the power of the multinational corporation has risen. Thus, in yuppie fascism, the power of the corporation is absolute and all other individuals and institutions, including the state, are conceived only in how they stand in relation to the corporation.

Second, Mussolini's absolute state is expansive. However, under yuppie fascism, the state is a tool of the corporation and uses its power not so much to seize and occupy territory but to negotiate trade agreements that open foreign markets to the corporation in such a way as to set aside any barriers to corporate investment in the foreign market with the aim of corporate dominance of the market. The state's military force is used only if there is no other way to open the market or to protect the corporation's existing investments in the foreign market. In short, the relationship of the corporate state - in the new sense, where the emphasis is on corporate rather than state - of the developed world to the developing world is colonial.

Third, Mussolini's fascism renounced pacifism and embraced war as that human endeavor that "puts the stamp of nobility on the peoples with the courage to meet ." However, only corporations directly involved in preparation for war benefit from war. Otherwise, open conflict is a hindrance to commerce; for example, no oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea to Karachi can be built as long as there are local hostilities in Afghanistan. Consequently, war is replaced not by peace but by a state that might be called one of security, in which tensions that arise from the imposition of corporate power over the powerless are suppressed; brute military strength is used to suppress the tensions - labor strife and peasant uprisings - only if necessary.

Fourth, classical fascism rejected egalitarian ideologies like socialism and democracy in favor of "the immutable, beneficial and fruitful inequality of mankind" which cannot be altered by "a mechanical process such as universal suffrage." Yuppie fascism also embraces inequality as beneficial to society as a whole and therefore holds that the rich deserve their opulence. Vast wealth is placed at the disposal of the members of an economically elite class for their private pleasure as a reward for their superior ability and foresight.

Finally, classical fascism rejected Marxist class struggle as a vehicle of historical progress in favor of concepts of individual "holiness" and "heroism", by which Mussolini meant "actions influenced by no economic motive, direct or indirect." For Mussolini, the exponent of the absolute state that expanded for its own sake, a heroic act was an act of valor in war. In yuppie fascism, with the state in decline and war seen as an inconvenient though occasionally necessary evil, the hero is the entrepreneur.

This is especially true if he began in middle-class or even lower-class surroundings, becoming the hero of a modern success story written by a contemporary Horatio Alger. Collective class struggle, in which individuals band together to better the position of all, is thus replaced by the endeavor of the individual to better himself and only himself, leaving the members of the class from which to rose to be exploited by him as the head of a new corporation.

Read more.

[Disturbed]

16. I suspect that most Amerikans associate the word..

Fascisist with Hitler and Hitler is immediately associated with the Holocaust. Therefore it doesn't do much to name the new Rethugs as Fascists. More accurately and understandable would be Corporatist. I call them Scum or Slime, mostly, but that's just me. ;0)

[MeowMeowMeow]

19. agreed

This I can agree with...though we could quibble on the adjectives.

[zann725]

55. Welcome Newbie!

:hi:

[Jack Rabbit]

27. Corporatist is another good term for what it is, but it is something more

Properly speaking, corporations don't take a stand on gay rights or abortion. In fact, gay rights is probably an issue where the interests of corporations and civil libertarians converge. Making gays more welcome in the community helps expand the talent pool, thus to the advantage of the corporation that seeks the best talent. In addition, the interests of the corporation are probably best serve by a single female manager if she terminates her pregnancy.

According to G. M. Tamas (see Part One of my two-piece), a feature of the Enlightenment was the expansion of citizenship toward universal enfranchisement. Fascism, as defined by Tamas, is a resistance to that expansion. Those who resistance that expansion in America make up a major part of Bush's base, to wit, the Christian right.

Thus, in Bush's electoral coalition we see the lethal combination of corporate elitists who desire stability in labor relations, enforced at gunpoint, if necessary, and irrational bigots. European yuppie fascists like LePen in France or Haider in Austria have been able to appeal to irrational bigots, but have not gained the backing of corporate money; Italy's yuppie fascists have been more successful, since Berlusconi is a wealthy media magnate in his own right. Now, in America, Bush has been able to put together an even more deadly coalition than Berlusconi in Italy. And Bush is armed with nuclear weapons.

This isn't Mussolini's fascism by any means. Nevertheless, it is a threat to democracy and it must be defeated.

[EFerrari]

29. You bring up a good point

but I suspect fascism isn't possible without irrational bigots. I'd have to go lookit to get you examples, but common sense might suggest that without the irrational bigot constituency, the depredations of government the governed are subject to would be much more difficult to impose.

[Jack Rabbit]

34. As Tamas defines fascism, it would not be possible without bigots

If there is resistance to the expansion of citizenship toward universal enfranchisement (a feature of democracy), then there must be a scapegoat, whether it is a Jew, a black or a homosexual.

By definition, fascism needs both scapegoats to keep on the outside and bigots who desire to keep them out.

[EFerrari]

36. Which brings us 'round to self-hatred

and denial,the root of bigotry. Get a bunch of self-hating people in community, the yeild is denial and bigotry.

I don't think the first move is scapegoating. That's more like the third or fourth move, away from fear, shame and self-hatred.

Hmmmm. That may be the progression we're undergoing: fear, shame, self-hatred, SCAPEGOATING.

[zanana]

62. We can't go by old definitions of forms of government...

Yes, history repeats itself, but not exactly. I think what we have now is a form of Plutocracy, Oligarchy and shades of Fascism. I think it's important for us to define it ourselves, but so far, nobody has come up with a good word or definition. I certainly don't have one.

[Zhade]

24. "military force is used only if there is no other way to open the market"

Indeed - witness Iraq and Bremer's Edicts, signed before he bailed.

FANTASTIC post.

[Jack Rabbit]

28. Exactly

And you will notice I wrote that over a year before Iraq was invaded.

[Zhade]

32. Indeed. Your argument carries weight.

What I wonder is this: do people get hung up on the "Hitler = fascist" thing to the point of being unable/unwilling to consider their own nation to be fascist, or its leaders at the very least idealizing such a government?

Hell, even b**sh himself has said more than once that he would prefer a dictatorship.

[Jack Rabbit]

37. That's part of it

EDITED for typing and clarity

The "Bush is Hitler" mantra does our cause no good whatsoever. Hitler set a standard for evil that will probably go unmatched for a long time, perhaps always. The question isn't will Bush will go as far as Hitler if left unchecked? but rather is has he already gone too far? I answers those question, respectively, No and Yes.

So, if anyone is hung up on on the idea that one has to be as bad as Hitler to be a fascist, then Bush is not a fascist and neither is anybody else. There can be no more fascists.

However, the real problem is the people don't want to believe that Bush, as the embodiment of the American people, could ever do anything so monstrous as we accuse him. As Americans, it is easy to identify with Bush as the leader. To call him a monster is to call all Americans monster. Either torture at Guantanamo is not happening or there is a good reason for it.

Our task is to separate Bush from Americans, to make Americans see him as an aberration. Only then will they accept that he is a war criminal and agree that he and his entire administration must be forced from power and that he and most of his aides should answer for their crimes before a proper court.

[Zhade]

42. Excellent points! I hope we can do so.

I fear our chances, though.

[0007]

15. With a doubt!

The greatness of every mighty organization embodying an idea in this world lies in the religious fanaticism and
intolerance with which, fanatically convinced of its own right, it intolerantly imposes its will against all others:
Adolf Hitler

[Zhade]

25. With, or without?

NT!

[0007]

30. Sorry for the mistake.

Without a doubt

[Zhade]

33. No problem, I just wanted to understand you correctly.

NT!

[MeowMeowMeow]

18. no

Fascist is too harsh a term. Problem with the hypothesis is that if you say that they are fascist then you are saying that America is a fascist country; or at least is becoming one. Last time I checked, America was no where close to fascist or anywhere close to nazi Germany.

Now, there are some disturbing trends which calls for vigilance...but that's the beauty of America, it's eternal vigilance from all sides so that things do not swing too far in one direction or the other.

[Lars39]

20. Yup, "Friendly Fascism"

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/Friendly_Fascism_BGross.html

Right now they are consolidating their power, getting all their
programs in place, working on the masses, etc.

[baldguy]

31. Bush is sure turning on the charm this week in Europe.

Neville Chamberline was charmed by a guy too.

[Hollowkatt]

65. Remember,

Oliver Cromwell was a charming man as well and look at his England

[LdyGuique]

35. The Administration is a "work in progress"

I don't believe that we're completely fascist at this time; however, I believe that all of the "stars are aligning" to become all out fascist. I believe that if we expand the war in the Middle East to include bombing Iran and Syria that draconian suspension of civil liberties will be taken through the Patriot Acts and Homeland Security. This country will explode into civil disobedience and Lame Duck will move to supress it. This will be the beginning of a complete turnover into true fascism. It remains to be seen if he'll succeed. How far will any of us go if he attempts to take down the internet to control the news?

[Zhade]

38. Ah, but I didn't ask if the country is fascist.

I asked if the administration is. I think you are correct, and it is developing, but this does not preclude them from already holding fascist ideals.

[Cuban_Liberal]

39. No, they are reactionary. n/t

[independentchristian]

40. Reactionary is a characteristic of Fascism

Of course the Bush administration is Fascist.

Read this article, and make sure you check out the last section on the 14 Characteristics of Fascism.

http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm

[Heyo]

41. no reason to flame me..

...but I am just sayin'

this argument crops up from tiem to time in one for or another...

You wake up every morning, YOU decide what you want to do.. YOU make the decisions about what YOU want to do with YOUR life.

You travel where you want, say what you want, eat and drink what you want, associate with whomever you want to, and for the most part do what you want with your life.

Regardless of what's going on in Washington D.C....

You don't live under Fascism.

Heyo

[Senior citizen]

43. I suspect that's how the good Germans felt under Hitler.

In fact many Jews felt the same way, which is why they didn't leave before it was too late and they found themselves being herded into ghettos and hauled off to concentration camps.

I've read accounts written by people who were there who said they they noticed what was going on, but they were able to live their own lives and believed that things couldn't or wouldn't get much worse.

Complacency can be fatal, as Niehmoller pointed out.

The millions of people incarcerated in our prison-industrial complex, most of whom are minorities guilty of non-violent crimes, can't travel or choose what to eat or drink, or whom to associate with.

The homeless can certainly travel, but don't have much choice about what they eat or drink.

The unemployed, underemployed, and those living in poverty seem to lack the options that the wealthy enjoy.

But by the time many of us realize what has happened to them, it will be happening to us.

That's fascism, but I also prefer the term corporatism since the emphasis on the bottom line, if followed to its logical conclusion, can lead nowhere else but to slave labor.

[Heyo]

46. great post... my reply:

In fact many Jews felt the same way, which is why they didn't leave before it was too late and they found themselves being herded into ghettos and hauled off to concentration camps.

Uh oh here we go again.. on our way to the concentration camps...

The millions of people incarcerated in our prison-industrial complex, most of whom are minorities guilty of non-violent crimes, can't travel or choose what to eat or drink, or whom to associate with.

Crimes are crimes. Breaking and entering is a non violent crime as far as I know. The exception of course is the WoD, but don't get me started on that or I'll go on for hours. It's a hot topic for me... closest thing we have to actually make you correct about fascism. (but that still leaves a LONG way to go, my friend)

The homeless can certainly travel, but don't have much choice about what they eat or drink.

Poverty has nothing to do with fascism. They are free to do as they please and eat or drink what they want. The fact that they do not have the means by which to do so has nothing to do with fascism.

The unemployed, underemployed, and those living in poverty seem to lack the options that the wealthy enjoy.

See above.

But by the time many of us realize what has happened to them, it will be happening to us.

Drop me a note when it happens to you so I can head for the hills. If it happens to my first, I'll send you a telegram from whatever forced labor camp I'm assigned to warning you head for the mountain hideout.

That's fascism, but I also prefer the term corporatism since the emphasis on the bottom line, if followed to its logical conclusion, can lead nowhere else but to slave labor.

That some people make more money than others, and some people live privaleged lives while others are not so fortunate, has been a part of human existence for the entirety of it's history. Yes it sucks for some people, but no, it's not fascism. Nor, one could argue, is it "corporatism" since existed long before large corporations. It's a fact of life that some people get a bum deal in life, and others get the world on a platter. No amount of social engineering will ever fix that. I prefer to just be thankful for what I have and try to help those less fortunate when and as I am able to.

:toast:

Heyo

[Senior citizen]

48. No, the poor have not always been with us.

Most indigenous peoples do not have great disparities of wealth.

In fact, economic development, or corporatism, in forcing indigenous peoples off their land in order to exploit natural resources, causes poverty. If you no longer have land to build a home on, and can no longer grow food but have to seek work in order to earn money with which to buy food, you can easily become poor. When you do find work, you are no longer working to support yourself, your family, and your community as before, but also to enrich the wealthy people who own the company you work for.

A woman in Afghanistan summed it up for me many years ago, saying, "I'm poor, but everybody in my country is poor so it isn't a problem. But you're American and all the other Americans I've seen are rich. It must be terrible to be poor in a rich country."

Two books explain how fascism/corporatism causes poverty:

"All Our Relations," by Winona LaDuke

"Confessions of an Economic Hitman," by John Perkins.

The "entirety of human history" did not begin with colonialism or the industrial revolution.

[Zhade]

51. Excellent post, and quote. Thanks for that.

NT!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

59. The disparities in wealth are smaller, it's true

But only because there's no wealth to go round.

If you measure poverty by absolute standard of living - amount of food, quality of clothes, healthcare and so on - rather than defining anyone having less than a certain fraction of the national average standard of living as poor, regardless of what that standard is, then America has less of it than what you refer to as indigenous peoples.

Fascism and corporatism are two different things. Bush is a bad right-wing leader, but fascists are a small subset of bad right-wing leaders, and Bush and corporatists are right at the other end from them.

By calling him a fascist, left-wingers make ourselves look hysterical and irrational, and actually help him.

[Senior citizen]

64. Who you calling "ourselves," dude?

Are you absolutely certain that money is the only form of wealth that counts? What about clean water, fresh air, open space, and community ties? If you count those things as "goods" then indigenous peoples were much wealthier than we are.

It is certainly true that we have available too much of the wrong kinds of food, according to those who blame American obesity on this fact. As for "quality" of clothes, a lot of people who spend more of their income than they'd prefer, on the clothes necessary to maintain their persona at work, have absolutely no choice in the matter. As for healthcare, most of the expensive drugs the pharmaceutical companies push, are merely refined versions of natural cures their researchers learned and stole from indigenous peoples.

Calling yourself a left-winger does not give you carte blanche to trivialize our arguments as hysterical and irrational.

[Zhade]

44. I did not ask if the COUNTRY is fascist.

I asked if b**sh et al are fascist. I am not asking about the form of government they run, but the one they are working toward.

Are there degrees of fascism, or is it all-or-nothing totalitarianism?

[Heyo]

47. Point taken... n/t

[Guaranteed]

45. No question.

The corporate control of the government. Starting wars based on lies. Oppression of opposing views and control of the media. Possibly, most probably election fraud.

[opihimoimoi]

49. And closet Peters too.....

Damnnnnnn

[Cha]

50. I looked up fascism in the dictionary

a couple of years ago and I was satisfied that the bush regime was covered by that definition. Bloodless coup an all.

": a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition."

[Sugarbleus]

53. ABSOLUTELY..but done "American Style"....

If left alone to fully flourish, we'd see even MORE outrageous behavior come flowing down from this administration.

The German's didn't see it coming at first either...it's subtle. Remember, Mussolini coined the term. The political ideology has had it's fling in places like Chile and Spain as well. Each fascists regime doing it's thing with it's own particular flair/personal touch (if you will)

Those who refuse to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it....

[bunny planet]

54. Does a bear shit in the woods?

[Stealther]

56. Is the Pope Catholic? (n/t)

[LittleClarkie]

57. Is a bear Catholic?

Does the Pope go in the woods?

[markus]

58. They are inventing a new category

They are creating a new system of centralized, anti-democratic government. It preserves a veneer of Democracy, but is essentially a one party state with a semi-official media.

Legislation is drafted and proposed by the GOP only, and critical legislation is not delivered to the opposition in time to review it before a vote. But the semi-official media makes the consequences of oppostion on key issues politically dangerous. Some legislation, like Medicare Reform, it still passed the good old fashioned way--dividing up the money according to the demands of Congressional seniority and not rationally.

Could it slip into something more like 20th Century Fascism? That would depend on how far they are willing to go to maintain control, should the national Democratic Party begin to develop some spine.

[tinanator]

61. more info, but, duh, of course the Bush oligarchy certainly is

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/022205Drolette/022205drolette.html

[tom_paine]

63. BushPutinism is a new variant of Totalitarianism, of facsism

Kinder and Genlter than those version which have come before it is tailored to end the Old American Republic as Caeser neded the Roman Republic.