Again the repubs are FRAMING the debate on soc security...........

[msongs]

as seen on other threads here, the repub fringe elements (acting on orders from the white house no doubt) are framing the debate on social security by doing things like attacking the AARP, putting the AARP and the dems on the defensive. then bush will say, oh that is bad, wish i could control those bad boys but.......... Just like the swift boat vets.

And like the swift boat vets, they are gonna get FREE MEDIA promotion so as to not spend money doing it.........people here have said Olbermann is already showing the ad for free and generating the buzz, aiding and abetting the enemy.

So attacking/blaming the moms and dads for squandering the surplus when it was all Bush's fault, classic framing..............

that ad showing the soldier X-d over and the two guys kissing, when the relevance is totally erroneous, classic framing...........

and the repubs are gonna get away with it with the cooperation of the media...........again.

brilliant. of course, look who they are up against.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[Erika]

1. One question to stop them

How is a minimum wage worker supposed to save enough in his/her life for retirement? The corporations depend on low wages to build their corporate profit. Throw it back at them.

[zann725]

9. Exactly! Most Americans work two jobs now just to make ends meet.

And 'just making ends meet' doe NOT have any margin for Savings.
And it's NOT our fault. Wages are lower than they were, jobs are more scarce, and tend to get phased out more often than before.
AND the Cost of Living has increased, while wages have declined.

The only ones who can afford to save anything substantial are those who earn over $90K/yr...and are moaning about the suggestion of a raising of the Cap on Social Security to their income level.

[johnnyrocket]

11. There's no LOGIC or REASONING with these people...

they are out for the power and the money, and will use hate, lies, smears...probably worse to get their way.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. Exactly

If they don't get their way with an issue they try to reframe it with using different words. If that doesn't work they use images like the two men and the solider when neither have nothing to do with SS. They just want to make their base fall in line.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. This article really pinpoints the way it should be framed

Social Security is NOT a retirement fund, It is Old-Age, Survivors and Disability Insurance (OASDI).
Excellent article, and this is the way all Democrats should discuss it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x107983

[LittleClarkie]

6. They already have been

I keep hearing:
There is no crisis.
It is an insurance policy, not an investment fund.
I love Shumer's calculator machine, where you plug in your annual wage and it tells you how much you will lose under Bush's plan.

And I can only imagine people looking at the AARP ad and going "WHAT?!" as if someone just asked them for a lightly grilled weasel on a bun.

Not to mention turning the SOTU speech into the House of Commons for a minute there.

People are not going to buy the bullshit that granny is only interested in gay marriage. The RW is going down. This is not brilliant. It is ludicrous. It doesn't even tap into an undercurrent of emotion the way the Smear vets did. What are they going to do, show some bluehair next to a picture of Saddam Hussein?

God, they're desperate.

[FreedomAngel82]

18. This ad is of deseperation

I agree there. Tonight on Sam Seder's time on the air at least three people called in to say they were on the verge of being a democrat or being a democrat (one person said they tore up their republican card and the other people seemed pretty close to leaving the republians). They'll always have their loyals of course but I think with time more people will see through them. I only hope of course.

[whistle]

3. Well, all of their arguments are full of shit, nothing that they can...

...do any better for future recipients than the present system, because it represents shared risk, common benefits, low administrative costs and zero profits to an entity that would cheat elderly Americans. Every proposal that privatization could suggest, could be done better within the social security program if allowed to be implemented within the system. Bush and the neo-conservatives just want to loot the system and essentially dismantle it.

[Erika]

5. redistribution of the wealth

The Bushies want to take our taxes and give Wall Street an infusion.

Their administrative expenses will doom such a plan.

[whistle]

21. Social Security is social insurance not tax....we pay a percent of

...what we earn and our employers pay a little less than half (6.25% + 6.15% = 12.40%) If a person has worked for 40 years and paid in the maximum every year, they have helped to pay the social security benefits of all of those persons who were collecting over the past 40 years. Now that person is ready to retire and is entitled per contract because it was a social contract with the government to collect benefits until they die.

The problem is that the $2 trillion plus surplus that was supposed to be there has already been looted by Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy and the deficits he had spent on the wars and military build up for future wars. Bush is creating the false crisis in Social Security funding to cover the real crisis in overspending and outright looting he and his reThuglican cronies have created with their spending and stealing. The way to fix it is to make the wealthy give it all back!

[ChiciB1]

4. Not Repubs... REPUKES!

I just want the stuff to STOP!! I never thought I would actually say this, but I have begun to think that we really ARE being guided by the Gestapo!!

This is waaaaaay too scary!! Attacking the AARP for Social Security with that ad is beyond the pale. They will stop a NOTHING! And I'm really beginning to think some very bad thoughts!!

And today Hillary seems to have become one of the sheep... she says the insurgency in Iraq is really slowing down and there's a real possibility that the elections worked!! What is this all about??

[Erika]

7. Hillary was a Goldwater Republican

and has returned to her basis.

[SharonAnn]

12. No, no she hasn't.

[LittleClarkie]

8. Winning in 2008, that's what.

I told her to watch out for those pods...

[zann725]

10. She ALWAYS one of the sheep. And her husband sheepling abroad with GHWB

as we speak.

Speaking of which, did anyone catch GHWB's concerned comments re: the orphans of the Tsunami...how unfortunate it was? My stomach turned...in light of the stories here about Pappy's past habits. Is he there to raise money...or just...

[libodem]

13. I'd love to see some counter-ads

...a couple of extravagantly rich, snobs, dressed to the nines, having, martinis, laughing it up, over how they, are getting over on the middle class. They don't need that money to retire on. Now, they won't have to pay social security. They can invest it with the rest of their tax free dividends. Meanwhile, Joe Average, doesn't make enough money to really even use the investment plan, pays into social security all his life, and they can collect off of his contributions. If, they take their social security.

[Maine Mary]

14. SS would unlikely EVER become a problem if...

We did away with the 78k tax cap.

AND

We did Means-Testing for those who have already exhausted what they paid in ... For the average worker of 40 years that would mean a little over 4 years of SS retirement payments.

Before anyone freaks out about the means testing, please remember that SS payments would continue uninterupted for those who need it-either at it's original amount or more if necessary.

But sorry Donald Trump, you've exhausted yours (even HE would run out eventually at the 78k capped status quo)

Donald Trump is an extreme example but there are many seniors out there who live well yet HAVE exhausted their contributions while continuing to receive payments they don't necessarily need.


Sorry msongs to (kind-of) go off onto another thing but I hope you'll agree that Dem Leadership needs to take a position (hopefully this one :-) ) and stick to it. They just can't stand there and oppose GW, they need a plan of their own... Which sort-of gets to what you were talking about.

[DemocracyInaction]

15. This is where they are out of their element

They may have used scum tactics before to reach people who really weren't affected by whatever they were peddling (like a war--because they wouldn't have any loved one who would be serving, etc.). But they are not going to 'sway' the retired/elderly/near retirement crowd because they know their SS and Medicare up oneside and down the other. They are not going to turn away from the AARP which is like a god to them and believe that they, the seniors, are really gay lovers and soldier haters, etc. They are going to get real pissed when they see this and disgusted with republicans. If the repubs were afraid before to handle the SS issue because the seniors might vote them out of office, they would be wise to be absolutely terrified of these ads. Attacking this voting block on top of touching the 3rd rail could blow the bastards right out of the majority.

[ailsagirl]

17. They must be getting desperate if they're trotting those

scumbags out again. I hope AARP has the strength and clout to counter these sleazy liars.

The sleazy vets were PROVEN to be the liars where Kerry was concerned yet... here they are again. One would think they completely lacked any credibility at this stage!!!

Besides, what the hell do THEY have to do with SS????

[cry baby]

19. I'm not a member of AARP, but I sent them some $$ to help counter

the attack on old people that is to come. I called my mother who is a member and told her about that ad and told her she had better get busy doing something and to send AARP a little more $$.

[ailsagirl]

20. Good move, cry baby... I think I'll send them some $$ as well