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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 12:56 AM
Original message
Bio-Terrorism ???-- newly identified "WSN/33" Avian/Human virus combo
The Avian flu in Asia has been all over the news lately. It is bad enough to have to worry about that outbreak turning into a pandemic.

But there is another virus on the scene that is potentially more scary, the WSN/33 virus, which combines genetic bits of avian flu and parts of a human virus that is related to the virus responsible for the 1918 pandemic. Several strains of this other virus have been found in Korea, in swine. As per this article, each of the strains were genetically manipulated.

Theories abound, and one is that WSN/33 was developed as a bio-terrorism agent. What do you think?

Any scientists out there?

http://discuss.agonist.org/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=20905


Scary Near-Miss Shows Bioterrorism Vulnerabilities
« on: February 21, 2005, 07:36:12 pm »


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Commentary at

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02220504/Laboratory_WSN33.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02220503/Bioterrorists_WSN33.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02220502/Spontaneous_Generation_WSN33.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/02220501/Bioterror_Pandemic_Preparedness.html

http://www.cfr.org/pub7839/laurie_garrett/scary_nearmiss_shows_bioterrorism_vulnerabilities.php

Scary Near-Miss Shows Bioterrorism Vulnerabilities

By Laurie Garrett

Council on Foreign Relations, February 16, 2005


<snip>

In December, somebody from one of South Korea's veterinary schools did what hundreds of virus-hunters do the world over: he or she e-mailed to GenBank the genetic details of newly identified viruses. In this case, the posting said, six new strains of influenza had been found in local pigs. Each of the strains were genetically manipulated and contained genetic bits of an avian virus unlike those now prompting separate bird flu concerns.

Worse, there were large segments of a flu bug dubbed WSN/33, a human flu virus altered in 1933 in a laboratory by infecting mice, resulting in a strain that kills mouse brain cells. The original 1933 human virus was related to that which caused the 1918 pandemic flu, killing an estimated 50 million people. Nothing even remotely like the WSN/33 flu has circulated in the world since 1956, and this particular WSN-avian flu combination is not known to have ever occurred naturally, so most of the global population would have little or no immunity to the virus. Since neither the particular bird flu strain nor the WSN/33 flu were known to exist outside of laboratories, one Internet journal concluded that "these sequences could represent a military experiment that resulted in an unplanned release. Moreover, at this point, bioterrorism cannot be ruled out."

The World Health Organization's (WHO) influenza branch responded later in December, convening a teleconferenced meeting of flu experts to analyze the GenBank information and exchanging a flurry of e-mails. They concluded somebody had made a lab error. On January 27, the South Korean government confirmed a laboratory error had been made and promised to send samples of the six viruses to WHO's Hong Kong collaborative lab.

But at press time the South Koreans had not sent the promised samples. Internet chatter about possible North (or South) Korean bioweapons experiments persists. This is dangerous.


What happened? Nobody, except perhaps the silent South Koreans, knows for sure. But there are two general hypotheses, WHO says. Someone in the South Korean veterinary lab may have innocently pulled the wrong computer file of genetic sequence data into an e-mailed transmission to GenBank, resulting in the display of this potentially terrible viral code. The lab in question may have contaminated its research samples. Or the South Korean lab is working on a flu vaccine, using the WSN/33 human sequence from 1933 as a basic template and deliberately scrambling it with various animal flus. In such a scenario, the scientists accidentally created these disturbing influenza strains in the lab in their vaccine production effort. I cannot accept the vaccine idea: why in the world would anybody be making a vaccine against a type of human flu that hasn't circulated on earth for more than 70 years? If lab contamination or data input error are the problem, I am left to fret about a host of recent lab accidents that, in some cases, have allowed dangerous microbes to leak, including SARS and tularemia.

If we are seriously concerned about the possibility that nefarious individuals or groups might make bioweapons using state-of-the-art genetic manipulations, the chain of events leading to recognition that such experiments were under way might look very much like what occurred with these Korean swine strains. The WHO would be under pressure--by international agreement under the Bioweapons Convention of 1972--to definitively prove, or disprove, allegations. Does WHO have sufficient funding, manpower, and clout to do this job at this time? No. The core budget of WHO is a mere $400 million and only two scientists are employed full time to monitor new epidemics and rumors of bioterrorism. An additional handful of full-time staff leads efforts to monitor flu strains around the world.


<snip>



An article warning about the avian flu virus
***********************************************

Vietnam - Deadly Avian Flu May Have Been Underestimated

BBC News Online
2-16-5


The spread of the deadly avian influenza virus may have been underestimated because of a misunderstanding of how it affects the body, British scientists have said. Oxford University experts studying deaths in Viet Nam suggest the disease can attack all parts of the body, not just the lungs as had been thought. They told the New England Journal of Medicine (see comment below: Engl J Med 352;7 http://www.nejm.org 17 Feb 2005. - Mod.CPb) that they also believe humans could pass the virus on to each other. So far, there have been 42 bird flu deaths, all in Asian countries. But the Oxford University scientists say their findings suggest the number of cases of human infection with the virus may have been underestimated.

The World Health Organization said it would change its definition of what constituted an avian influenza infection. So far, the WHO says there have been 55 confirmed cases of avian influenza in humans, and 42 deaths. However, experts believe millions could be at risk if the virus acquires the ability to jump from person to person by combining with human influenza virus to make a new, mutated (reassortant) version.

The researchers examined the deaths of 2 young children -- a brother and sister -- who lived in a single room with their parents in southern Viet Nam. They were admitted to hospital suffering from gastroenteritis and acute encephalitis, which are common ailments in the country. Neither displayed respiratory problems, which have been considered typical in cases of avian influenza. But analysis revealed that the 4-year-old boy had traces of the virus in his faeces, blood, nose and in the fluid around the brain. This indicates the virus -- known as H5N1 -- can attack all parts of the body, not just the lungs. It is suspected his 9-year-old sister, who died 2 weeks earlier in February 2004, was also suffering from the virus.

The lead researcher is Dr Menno de Jong, a virologist at the Oxford University Clinical Research Unit who is based at the Hospital for Tropical Diseases in Ho Chi Minh . He said: "This illustrates that when someone is suffering from any severe illness we should consider if avian influenza might be the cause. It may be possible to treat but you have to act in the early stages, so awareness of the whole spectrum of symptoms in an emerging disease like avian flu is vital. It appears this virus is progressively adapting to an increasing range of mammals in which it can cause infection, and the range of disease in humans is wide and clearly includes encephalitis."

<snip>

http://www.rense.com/general63/avo.htm

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Lori Price CLG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 01:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. Maybe that's what the 40+ microbiologists were working on...
Edited on Thu Feb-24-05 01:09 AM by Lori Price CLG
...before the Bush terror team had them killed (all after 9/11)?

Cheers,
Lori R. Price
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
9. omg! that was the 1st thought that came into my head when i read this
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Where can I find out more about this?
Thanks
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 02:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Questions...
Each of the strains were genetically manipulated and contained genetic bits of an avian virus unlike those now prompting separate bird flu concerns - What is the evidence for this? Can pigs be hosts for those avian viruses, possibly giving rise to inter-strain recombination?

I cannot accept the vaccine idea: why in the world would anybody be making a vaccine against a type of human flu that hasn't circulated on earth for more than 70 years? If lab contamination or data input error are the problem, I am left to fret about a host of recent lab accidents that, in some cases, have allowed dangerous microbes to leak, including SARS and tularemia. I wonder whether someone could have been doing legitimate research (for instance, vaccine production), and pulled the wrong tube from the freezer, and accidentally made something very nasty...Human errors (pulling the wrong tube, mislabeling samples, etc.) are actually quite common in the lab...


I'd also be curious to know exactly what Recombinomics does, which is not readily apparent to me from its rather inscrutable website...

-SM

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pandemic_1918 Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. WSN/33 Is In Pigs
So if the viruses were made in error, how did they get spread all over Korea in pigs on farms?

And why is WHO still spinning wheels?

And who has been telling reporters all of this nonsense?

The story is in Nature today and will be more widespread shortly. Reporters have known about this stonewalling since December (and WHO has known about the sequences before that).

I could tell you the real story, but you would never believe it.
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:33 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. So tell the real story...n/t
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pandemic_1918 Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Tomorrow Night
More of the real story should be out tomorrow night

http://news.google.com/news?q=wsn%2F33&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-02-05 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Thank you for the link
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TexasLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. There's nothing on WSN/33 on WHO website
Avian flu is all over the place on the WHO website, but I could find nothing on the Korean swine that are infected with WSN/33. In fact, in the WHO breakdown of "Disease outbreaks by country" the country of South Korea does not appear to be listed. Hmm.

Does WHO wait for a disease to jump species and infect humans before it begins to issue warnings, or even start talking about it on their web-site?


http://www.who.int/csr/don/archive/country/en/
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pandemic_1918 Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-26-05 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. WHO Had No Comment
WHO has been stonewalling reported since December. In Nature story they had "no comment". More news next week. we'll see what they say then.
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pandemic_1918 Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:05 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Science Covers WSN/33 in Korea
WHO has comments in Science on WSN/33 in Korea

http://news.google.com/news?q=wsn%2F33&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn
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pandemic_1918 Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. Update on WSN/33
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #5
25. "who has been telling reporters all of this nonsense?"
My guess: the usual--conspiracy theorists and the people who use them for domestic psy ops.
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 02:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. Also...
Why doesn't the WHO just sent someone out to Korea to find out what's going on, interview the researchers involved, and audit the research that went on?


Also, since its not clear whether the recombined viruses are actually extant, is it possible that someone constructed and submitted these sequences to GenBank as an exercise to monitor the response? That is, someone wanted to see if the WHO and other agencies or scientists were paying attention - if so, it appears they passed the test...



And if I was very cynical I might suspect that the whole thing was an mock exercise designed to drum up public/political awareness of influenza or bioterrorism preparation issues. Either that or drum up government funding for companies that work those sorts of things...

-SM, not sure what to think...

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pandemic_1918 Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. WSN/33 in Swine is VERY Real
No, it is all quite real. WHO has known about this for a VERY long time. The question is who was feeding all of this nonsense to reporters?

The story is in Nature now. It is VERY real and there will be VERY real consequences


http://news.google.com/news?q=wsn%2F33&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=wn
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Sufi Marmot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 03:26 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. So is Laurie Garret mistaken when she says...
Nothing even remotely like the WSN/33 flu has circulated in the world since 1956 - has WSN/33 or some close relative of it been in swine or some other host all along since 1956?

-SM

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pandemic_1918 Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-24-05 11:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. WSN/33 is a Lab Virus
WSN/33 is a lab virus. Its a variant of the first human flu virus ever isolated in 1933 (WS/33). In 1940 it was passaged through mice to get WSN/33 from mouse brains.

It entered swine recently (probably in 2004)
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Helga Scow Stern Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-04-05 12:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
16. What will happen...
and what can we do?
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pandemic_1918 Donating Member (679 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Increased Monitoring
WHO's plan for containing the next bird flu pandemic is to quickly identify cases and use quarantine and anti-virals to contain spread. However, the detection of avian and 1933 human flu in swine in Korea happened over 4 months, and the existence of the WSN/33 is still being investigated.

Reports from South Korea animal quarantine sound suspect and WHO doesn't seem to be very concerned. Thus, intervention to contain this spreading virus seems late at best.

Additional pressure on relevant agencies would be useful

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&lr=&tab=wn&ie=UTF-8&q=wsn%2F33%20h5n1
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Theres-a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. kick
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
19. So, the recipe for a man-made killer is out there to be recreated.
The fact this killer even exists is just,...incredible. Now, the recipe has been exposed.

:scared:

Makes one consider becoming a vegetarian and moving to the North frigid Pole!!!
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Just Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
20. A story has just been posted in LBN indicated the bird flu is widespread,.
,...in Asia. Is this an overnight development?

The story also indicates that the WHO anticipates a world-wide problem in the next few months.

Hell, maybe we're going to get a one-two punch!!!

YIKES! :scared:
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-05 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
21. No Duvets or feather pillows for me...besides they get dust mites and make
me sneaze...maybe stop eatting chickens too.
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. You scared the shit out of me, so I called
Edited on Thu Mar-10-05 02:43 PM by John_H
one of my best childhood friends who is a virologist at a famous midwest hostpital and full professor of medicine at it's associated university. My notes:

Unlikely it's terrorism. All flu is mutations--that's why different vaccine every year. Makes no diff if "alterd" in lab or nature.Mutations that cause cross species viruses are at best, imperfectly understood even though they account for many of our deadliest and most common diseases--the flu itself is a cross-species virus probably originating after man domesticated pigs.

Creating flu could be done by trial and error by terrorists, but need to be fairly sophistcated to choose "right" one, but why do it when deadlier, easier and cheaper bioweapons are available? In developed countries, all flu treatable and esy to make vaccine if identified. Why attack Viet Nam w/ flu and not new york w/ small pox?

Some natural mutations more serious than any yet devised in lab.

There are several easier ways to "design" viruses that would be just as deadly and impossible to detect as being designed--all are more deadly and scary than flu. Small pox variants exist.

The CFR article either purposely misleading or written by a "dope." The use of the word manipulated and altered are misleading--unable to tell if viruses are mutated or manipulated, the "not known to occur naturally" line is 'idiotic'--mutations are not known to occur naturally until they do.

Cross species viruses always more serious--no immunity, infect in unpredictable, multiple ways.

Very familiar with WSN/33. Many animal used all over the world in research (I couldn't understand the technical reason why this one is so famous)--not to innoculate a population against bioweapon use. Vaccine experiments are common which is what happened with the "mice experiment" alteration--not weapons research.

Virus emerging in viet nam points to natural mutation and outbreak --happens more often in SE asia (lots of people, pigs, birds, in close proximity, weather favorable).

Bioterrorism is plenty scary--small pox, ebola, antibiotic- resistant plague much more deadly.

That's about all he told me. Hope this is helpful.
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John_H Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-10-05 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Oh...forgot..thinks the korean pig thing is either Gov. scare job or pr st
I'd love to know all about that PA outfit....
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