Novak was wrong about Sebelius, and Carville was uninformed.

[madfloridian]

I see a lot of the right wing blogs and so called news are picking up on Novak's comments and saying it will be a pattern as Dean travels the South...to that effect. Expect a correction from Novak, and a heads up from Carville for being unaware. He could have defended the party chair anyway, so I don't excuse him on this. Democrats do not allow insults of the party chair on TV and not stand up for them.

Someone posted this at Kos, and I am very glad to see it.
http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0205/209845.html

LAWRENCE, Kan. (AP) - "National Democratic Committee Chairman Howard Dean received a raucous welcome Friday from fellow Democrats for his message against the war in Iraq and his portrayal of Republicans as fiscally irresponsible.

About 900 people crowded into a downtown theater waving signs and cheering loudly during a 40-minute rally. The $5-a-ticket event raised money for the state Democratic Party. Dean has promised to build the party even in the nation's most conservative areas, and Kansas would seem to be a reliably Republican state, giving President Bush (website - news - bio) 62 percent of the vote last year. "

SNIP..."Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, who had breakfast Friday morning with Dean, told reporters at the Statehouse that the former Vermont governor was a good choice for party leadership. She particularly likes his energy and desire to build the party from the ground up..." (I heard it was a fundraising breakfast...not sure.)

Here is the CNN transcript of Crossfire where Novak made snide remarks about Sebelius refusing to meet with Dean. And Carville indicated that was ok.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/25/cf.01.html

[senseandsensibility]

1. Carville is such a disappointment

He's been around his wife and the insiders so long, he no longers sees things as a Democrat. :(

[autorank]

5. Just as Clinton was.

[BlueManDude]

10. Clinton was a terrific president for ALL of the people

every citizen of this nation would be better off today than they are if Clinton were still president.

[autorank]

17. We would be better off today if he were president, we'd be great if Gore .

..had taken it in 2000. Say what you want about Gore's campaign, he won. His victory would have been so decisive that the * people would be history if Clinton hadn't had sex with "that woman Monica Lewinsky."

Yep, that's it. Clinton screwed us all by his lack of personal control. Without Lewinsky, 2000 would have been a slam dunk.

So, yes, anythings better than Bush but we have Bush largely because of Clinton and his stupid problem(s).

Hey Clinton, thanks for 4 years (and counting) of * Hell.

[Mich Otter]

21. Gore 2000

Gore did take it.

[justy387]

24. Then, how come Clinton's approval ratings went up

during and after Lewinsky? America didn't care about his anticts. Gore made a mistake by running away from Clinton's record by thinking that America was sick of Clinton. If that was so, then the Democrats would not have done so well during the '98 midterms.

Bill Clinton brought our party and our nation into the 21st century!!
I love Al Gore. He would have been an AWESOME president. And, he did win Florida. But... but... but Gore should have won in such a landslide that Florida should not have mattered.

[autorank]

42. I supported Clinton and the American people had brains then.

They were right to rally against the coup d'etat. Nevertheless, when the equity issue was settled (the coup attempt) in Clinton's favor, people had a chance to reflect on the tawdriness of a 50 something year old president diddling (or whatever) a 20 year old intern in the Oval Office. The result was a "bad taste" in the publics' mouth. Everything that happened minus the the unacceptable diddling equals a big Gore victory (even with Shrum and Brazile). We're all over * for "Gannon" and rightfully so but the Monica thing was entirely unnecessary.

As a result we have Hell on earth and, in the case of an issue near and dear to my family, no stem cell research. I take it personally.

Sorry.

[justy387]

45. You are making Clinton out to be a scapegoat.

He is not the reason why we are losing. We are losing because the current Democrats don't have his charisma. Americans don't have a cohesive reason to vote Democrats. Voting for the GOP is simple (in the minds of dumb voters, not me) as the GOP tells people: we'll protect you and keep your taxes low. Democrats don't have a message. We are not unified. We don't stand for anything. Stop blaming Clinton for our losses. One thing Democrats need to realize is that personality matters a great deal. Many Americans don't vote for policy reasons- they vote for who they think connects best with them. If you look at history, the more charismatic candidate almost always wins. (Clinton over Dole and Bush, Bush over Kerry and Gore, Kennedy over Nixon, Eisenhower over Adali)

[autorank]

47. I don't hold him accountable for anything other than 2000.

Charisma is great. The charismatic one must exercise self control otherwise we're screwed. I likedk Clark, who despite being a political newbie, has charisma and brains in spades.

[justy387]

48. I hold Katherine Harris accountable for 2000.

Then, Gore himself for running such a weak, lousy campaign which failed to win his home state or the president's home state. If he had sent Clinton bacl to the the state that he did so much for as governor, Gore would have won.

[autorank]

54. Welcome to DU!!! In honor of you joining, I'll agree with all of the above

:hi:

[BlueManDude]

27. If Gore had embraced Clinton he would have won decisively

Clinton made a mistake that embarrased us all - but the citizens of this country were never as outraged by it as the DC pundit class was. In fact 2/3's of the USA was more disgusted with Starr's witch hunt that they were with what Clinton did.

Gore's campaign made a strategic decision at the very beginning to run away from Clinton - and it cost him the WH.

[Hippo_Tron]

34. Clinton survived, Gingrich had to resign in shame

That's how I look at how the public viewed the whole Monica affair.

[BlueManDude]

39. Dems piicked up seats in 98 midterms and Newt left after that

people could see that an unfair investigation had been underway.

Gore's decision to distance from Clinton was a major blunder done because he was a creature of the Beltway and tried to cater to Tim Russert and Cokie Roberts and the WaPo editorial page - all of whom were never gonna give him a break anyway.

[autorank]

43. By the time of the election things had changed.

There was a principle at stake with the coup attempt and once that was settled, reality set in and it was a pretty lousy memory and a real Albatross.

[Hippo_Tron]

35. No, Gore single-handedly destroyed a perfect shot at the white house

The only people who gave a shit about Clinton's pants antics were Republicans. The 1998 midterms are PROOF of this. People despised Starr and Gingrich so much that the Democrats gained House seats when they should've lost them by the dozen. Also, Clinton left office with a higher approval rating that when he came in.

Gore ruined his own chances. Gore hired Shrum instead of Carville as his chief strategist (Kerry made this mistake also). Shrum now has an 0/8 record in presidential elections. Gore LOST the debates to arguably the most poorly-spoken and incompetent politician in the country, next to Dan Quayle.

Rigged election in Florida or no rigged election in Florida, it wouldn't have mattered if Gore had won Arkansas, New Hampshire, or his home state, Tennesee.

Clinton could've crushed chimpy in 2000 or even 2004 had he been allowed to run again. Gore's loss was his own damn fault. He and Nader are responsible for giving us chimp.

[autorank]

44. I agree with everything you said.

Nevertheless, the memories of Monica hurt Gore and the party among key segments Gore should have won. Arkansas and Tennessee folks really don't dig 50 somethings fooling around with 20 year old interns. There's the election, right there.

If we're going to tar * with "Gannon" then consistency requires that we admit one of the most catastrophic personal lapses in American political history. This rivals Parnell's indiscretion costing Ireland independence for another five decades.

I made this commend for two reasons. First there's the "Gannon" issue which I believe is emblematic of the entire * administration. Second, I'm dismayed and appalled that Clinton didn't speak up about the election fraud issue, in fact dismissed it as incorrect, and also the fact that he's doing the buddy-buddy, auditioning for the Carlyle Board act with George H.W.

This makes me realize that we need an all new party based on current and future leaders who reflect both the will and values of the base.

[Hippo_Tron]

49. Alright, but my point is that you can't blame Clinton for giving us *

BTW, there's one thing standing the way of making the Gannon scandal a big deal. The mainstream media.

[autorank]

53. You are right. I blame * for his shit. CM (corporate media) sucks!

CM is going down hard on this one. The final act of hypocrisy. You know this thing is going someplace really ugly with or without CM. When it does, people will realize how little CM did. CM goes down, CM goes down!

[Pepperbelly]

11. horseshit.

I hear people here say this and it's so crazy, it makes me crazy. If I hear one more leftie piss and moan about NAFTA or TELECOM or Welfare reform while forgetting virtually every other aspect of life improving under the great man's leadership, I shall scream.

And then go postal, running amok amidst the soft-handed elites who make these sorts of loony observations.

[Joe Power]

18. Me too

Clinton was the greatest President of my lifetime, and I'm an old bastard.

[Hippo_Tron]

37. I'll argue with you, but in prespective

I recently finished reading Wellstone's book and he certainly does criticize Clinton quite a bit. He is right that Clinton screwed up on NAFTA, TELECOM, the healthcare battle, as well as a great many other things. But it really does have to be put in prespective.

1) He had a Reactionary Republican congress with strong majorities that he had to deal with. Arguably no Democratic President has ever faced such a hostile congress and at least none since Woodrow Wilson.

2) Clinton actually was a decent man and often did try to do what was best. He really did run a populist campaign in 1992 and the real shame is that he never really governed like he ran. The Monica affair did hinder his ability to do a lot of what he wanted, but ultimately it was still the GOP that stood in the way.

3) Under Clinton we were still moving in a progressive direction which is a big contrast compared to the Raygun/Bush years and ESPECIALLY to the direction we are going in now.

Here's the bottom line for me. For everything one thing wrong that I can find with Clinton I can find about 100 things wrong with *. I would certainly rather have somebody more progressive than Clinton be President, but I would take him back in a heartbeat.

[autorank]

46. I'm not pissing and moaning about NAFTA, or Telecom.

I'm expressing regrets that he disappointed us by hauling out his you know what and getting caught in a right-wing set up job (Monica's dress in Lucienne Goldberg's closet, nuf said). Other than that HUGE F'ING DISAPPOINTMENT of diddling a 20 year old intern, I like almost everything he did.

While I'm L337 like JeffK, I'm neither "soft-handed" or a member of any "elite." I'm a Democrat who doesn't mind looking at how we got to where we are. Executive head in the Oval Office ante room was a betrayal of both the public and the Democratic Party. Look at it any way you want and it comes out to a huge minus in 2000 in key states we lost.

Cheers.

[Pepperbelly]

63. I would've done the same thing as Bill ...

I am an adult and if I choose to make whoopie with a young lady, it's nobody's fucking business. I would take the same position if I were President. Of course, I am not married but still, the principle is the same. That was Hillary's business and no one elses.

The biggest difference would've been I would've said, "Yeah? So what? Get off the fucking lawn, assholes!"

Cheerio.

[autorank]

64. Excellent message

Especially the phrase "Of course I am not married..." If you think it's OK to get the people's trust and support and then perform in your personal life in a way that just trashes the entire agenda and set of accomplishments, fine. I don't think it's OK and I'm sure the millions that supported and gave to Clinton don't think it's OK. I want someone who is effective and who won't compromise EVERYTHING because they're a little horny at a given moment. This was exactly my point. I seriously doubt if you could find any donor or more than a few campaign workers who would endorse this position.

[Pepperbelly]

65. so?

I owe you nothing and I am not running for anything. My personal life is absolutely none of your business. Neither is Bill Clinton's. You know what? Neither is yours. I expect that you really don't support ransacking people's personal life for political purpose and neither do I. The point is this: I will absolutely struggle against, fight, and condemn ANYONE who makes moral pronouncements over the personal lives of others. If someone takes an interest in my personal life that is anything other than supportive, there is a good chance that we'll fight when I catch them out.

Fuck those moralizers and if you are one of them ... I don't guess you need me to complete that, do you?

[autorank]

66. You were so busy telling me to get f**ked, you missed the point.

I could care less what you do or who you are for that matter and that goes for others as long as their morality (we'd both agree) stops at consenting adults. Now, my point was simple. It doesn't matter what we think because beaucoup people do care. If you talk the talk, you have to walk the walk and that means: if you're elected to high office, keep it zipped. Personally, i prefer the French law that makes it illegal to write about their president's sex life and affairs. Now that's a law I can get behind. I'm sitting here without stem cell research and I'm extremely unhappy. I'm also unhappy that a great 6 years of Clinton/Gore got interrupted, with the last two years turning to very little. So much good could have been done w/out the distraction caused by lack of control. This is an important topic -- what are the obligations of our leaders considering the world we live in (not the one we'd prefer, i.e., the French system) so don't tell me to get f**ked or anything just because I take it seriously. It's not a reflection or you and we agree on what the limits are; just not on what our leaders are obliged to do considering the real world.

[lonestarnot]

19. Clinton greatest president for masses... except for NAFTA! n/t

[NYCGirl]

23. And the Telecommunications Act, which helped get our news in the sorry

state it's in today.

[trudyco]

30. How did the Telecommunications act effect media?

I thought that was the Fairness doctrine being revoked under Reagan which caused our unfair and unbalanced reporting?

What did Clinton do? Now I do blame him for not reinstating it those 2 years when the Dems had it all.

[Hippo_Tron]

33. Clinton allowed for more media consolidation

Some could argue that he left the door wide open for liberals to start buying up TV stations so that we could have our own version of FAUX as well, but the fact is that the people with the money to do this tend to be conservative because of greed. I have heard, however, that Buffet and Soros are starting to buy TV stations.

[NYCGirl]

41. They're buying shares in Time Warner and Comcast. Whether that leads to

anything other than more profit for Soros and Buffet remains to be seen.

http://maccabee.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/15/19326/4285

[SoCalDem]

8. He's after the money and fame..

He always struck me as a blowhard who would say whaever it took to get the money..

[nickshepDEM]

50. edit: messed up. n/t

[BlueManDude]

9. With Carville it's about him first - party second

With most GOP consultants it's always about the party and they are always on message. Dem consultants seem to be more about publicising themselves than promoting the party. Carville has been completely co-opted.

[Jackpine Radical]

14. Carville is an opportunist, just like his wife.

They just keep their incomes up by working both sides of the street, one on each side.

[Totally Committed]

16. Amen!

I could not agree more!

TC

[justy387]

25. Yeah, I sure was disappointed in him

AFTER HE HELPED DEFEAT BUSH in '92, and put a democrat in the White House.
:eyes:

[thedailyshow]

2. I'm recommending this because more people need to know this

[madfloridian]

4. Thanks. We have to correct them and call them on it.

I see Novak as doing it on purpose, but Carville as a Democrat should have been informed. He should not have just said "probably" she should distance herself. Inexcusable.

[Pirate Smile]

13. You should send this to Unfiltered on AAR because I think I heard

them say this during one of their shows. They definitely need to correct it.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Thank you for that.

I heard on the radio this AM that Sebelius did not meet with Dean, so I just sent out an email with your correction to all the media that I have on my list.

[EFerrari]

6. Who is the disrupter here? Really, they're at it NOW.

Can we finger the operative trying to disrupt? This isn't just Carville asleep at the wheel. Someone put this message out on purpose.

[orleans]

7. carville was the first to cave in on election night

i watched him sitting there and slumping in his chair, hunching over his shoulders, hanging his head

and there i was--in tears--yelling at him on my t.v. screen: "No! Don't you dare give up!"

i couldn't believe what i was seeing (quitter! defeatist!) he disappeared in my eyes from that moment on.

looks like mary's been making the kool-aid for the kids & james has been drinking it.

he's done.

(am i being too harsh?)

[Totally Committed]

12. Carville is SO over...

He is woefully out of step with the best interests of the Party.

There was a time when he was a fire-brand, and an innovator, but that time has come and gone. He started putting his own interests and ego first, and lest we forget, goes home to one of the leading Regressive Extremist Neo-Con advisors to Bush/Cheney every night.

Crossfire has damaged the Liberal Cause by diminishing so many of our "issues", and making us look like a bunch of lily-livered, weak-ass RNC-colluders. I am sick of it. We are so much better and stronger and more principled than Carville OR Begala make us appear every day they are on.

Just my opinion, but I feel it to my bones.

TC

[autorank]

56. We need a BIG BROOM & CLEAN SWEEP. All new leaders.

American politics is the epitome of "survival of the fittest." Our "fittest" in the party have some pluses and some big minuses (we control nothing now, that's a minus x's 3).

SOOOO, lets go for ALL NEW. Harry Reid is just excellent. The guy signed the "Gannon" letter, opposed Gonzales, encouraged Boxer and debated with her, and has it in big time for *. Durbin will be vicious in the clinches and can knock heads as whip. Pelosi is getting her "sea legs" and Dean is doing exactly what he should do first, go south and rural. That's new leadership. No more rolling over in congress, no more "battle ground state only" presidential campaigns.

A prediction: Snotzengroper's popularity in CA is tentative now, 56% approve with no known opposition. Watch Dean time is DNC visit to CA perfectly to begin the end of Arnold...CA loves Dean and his style. It will happen. Rock on Howard!!!

[Donna Zen]

15. I was listening to AAR yesterday

...and they bashed, really bashed Sebelius unrelentingly. Called her names.

I've written to AAR about bashing Dems--this is not the first time--and have received snide remarks. You are either with them or against them.

[madfloridian]

20. Novak made it the "Political Alert"...owes us an apology.

Novak put Dean before Bush and did it tauntingly, like a child would do. He owes all of us an apology for insulting our chairman.

SNIP..."We'll talk more about the president's trip, but, first, the best little political briefing in television, our CROSSFIRE "Political Alert." (Video played in background, actually a good one.)

"Howard Dean, the new Democratic national chairman, has kept his first promise. He's off on a tour of the so-called red states. He's currently in Kansas, one of the reddest states, where George W. Bush got 62 percent of the vote and a state which no Democrat has carried for president since 1964.

Now, Kansas actually has a Democratic governor, Kathleen Sebelius. Tonight, Dr. Dean addresses a $5 -- I said $5 -- a-ticket rally in a movie theater in Lawrence. Will Governor Sebelius be there? No siree. She's in the same town, Lawrence, marking the anniversary of a college fieldhouse. She won't come close to her party chairman during his two days in the state. Kathleen Sebelius is no dummy.

CARVILLE: Is that the Phog Allen Fieldhouse on the campus of the University of Kansas?

NOVAK: That's right.

CARVILLE: Great tradition.

NOVAK: Fiftieth anniversary, yes.

CARVILLE: They play -- they play Oklahoma State...

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: Do you think she's smart keeping away from Howard?

CARVILLE: Probably. He got 62 percent.

(LAUGHTER)

CARVILLE: You know, I mean, I'm just reading this book. What's the matter with -- Kansas is a great state. By the way, Lawrence, Kansas, one of the nicest towns I've been in. And a lot of Democrats are there, too. I will guarantee...

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: That's why they get so many votes.

CARVILLE: Good program there. Democrats do well in Lawrence. That's about it, but we do well in Lawrence."

[Scout1071]

22. I was at the Dean event last night and Sebeilus was not there

as far as I could tell. Many of the local Dems including our state senators were there and were all on stage behind Dean as he spoke. The Governor was not on stage and I doubt she would have been standing backstage because it's a tiny theater and backstage is basically outside of the theater.

Having said that, I went to another event at Allen Fieldhouse directly after the Dean rally and Sebeilus WAS there. I spoke with her and said that AirAmerica and TalkLeft had been quite complimentary of her over recent months because of her success as a Dem in this Pug state. She had absolutely no idea what AirAmerica or TalkLeft were about and I was fairly shocked. I started to explain, but other people approached and I ended up just politely saying goodbye. She spoke to the crowd and then it was explained that she would not be sticking around because she was leaving to fly to Washington to meet with Bush this morning.

But, they were both in Lawrence yesterday and I would be surprised if they didn't meet.

[madfloridian]

26. That is strange she never heard of AAR.

I think a lot of our Democrats are uninformed. I am hearing Dean may make use of the bloggers and other media...I sure hope so. I guess a lot of the ones who go on TV really don't know what to say. They are uninformed.

Hard to believe she never heard of AAR, but it is possible.

That is so great you got to go to the rally! Jealous.

[Scout1071]

28. I thought it odd as well. And I've talked with one of her

aides and that person was utterly unaware of the whole DU and DailyKos underground movement - which isn't small by any means.

Dean is going to change all of that and I,for one, cannot wait.

Only bad thing about last night was I asked someone to take a picture of me with Dean and she said "no." Who does that? So I tried to take the ol' self pic and the damn sliding lense cap on the digital camera jammed and the pic didn't take. But again...who says "no" when asked to take a pic? BEEE-YOOOOOTCH.

[elehhhhna]

29. Carville sleeps with the enemy.

[justy387]

31. lol.

But that does not take away from the wonderful work he did for the democratic party.

[paineinthearse]

32. Is Carville on the DNC payroll

Or hold an elected position?

[Tigress DEM]

36. Besides his snide remarks about Dean, the MYTH of Bush's success

in Europe Grows despite the FACTS. Something News agencies don't feel they have to bother with anymore. Just put in a laugh and applause track.

Here's What I said to FAUX - and I will say it again:

FAUX News - That's what people who know what is actually going on in the world call your news agency. FAUX News as in a FAKE which is somehow designed to look like the real thing.

Your website currently (2/25/05) says that anti-bush protests in the European Tour were "small" so how many protesters do you need before you consider it a "large" protest?

Per StopUSA.be
On Monday 21 February more than 4,000 people demonstrated as a result of the visit of Bush to Belgium


http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_world_story_skin/475797%3fformat=html
About 12,000 protesters, many carrying banners reading "Bush go home", "No. 1 Terrorist" and "Warmonger", marched through the German city of Mainz on Wednesday, but were mostly kept away from the visiting US president.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2000142.stm
More than 100 separate protests, involving more than 200 diverse groups, are planned during his visit to Germany.

In Berlin, the 10,000-strong force of officers will be the highest number ever deployed for a post-war state visitor.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1381528.stm
Thousands of people have marched through the streets of the Spanish capital, Madrid to protest against the policies of President Bush, who is due to arrive there on Tuesday at the start of a European tour.


It seems to me that your FAUX News reporting of the protests at the Inauguration were simularly underdone.

[madfloridian]

40. Great post.

As Robert Parry says, we are in Bush's "Managed Democracy." Not quite there, but almost.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2005/021205.html

[Tigress DEM]

38. Star Tribune called this morning....

Told them when they started covering the what is REALLY happening in the world, I might consider re-subscribing... after a really long pause and calming myself down so I didn't just say, "Ummm. F*** NO!"

This is such irresponsible journalism!!

[nickshepDEM]

51. I agree with Carville...

Sebelius is a smart woman for staying away from Dean. Shes about to start campaigning for her re-election and the last thing she needs is a bunch of right wing nut jobs clumping her with Howard Dean. Im not saying I dislike Dean, but you guys know damn well that the Nebraska GOP will call Howard Dean a loony left and try to clump Sebelius with him. If it works, there goes another Democratic Governor.

[madfloridian]

58. So you are saying we let the GOP decide what we do?

I disagree. We tried that already, and it did not work. They turn on the Democrats who work with them as well.

We need to stand up and say what we believe, and we need to stop letting them bully us.

Your way was tried and it did not work.

[nickshepDEM]

60. It obviously did work. Sebelius won a state-wide election in Nebraska.

Do you think she was elected by aligning herself with mainstream Democrats like Howard Dean? Not a chance in hell.

[madfloridian]

61. Ok. So she is an out of the mainstream Democrat then.

Which Democrats did she choose to stand with? Just curious, as I am in Florida where we only have Republicans anyway.

At least she took time to have breakfast with him...do you think she is embarrassed I posted it?

[madfloridian]

62. Nice little article about her and her views about KS.

Thought you might enjoy it.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/news/state/11002801.htm
But Sebelius, who met with Dean at a breakfast Friday, said she welcomed Dean and the attention people outside Kansas are paying to the state.

Americans, both Republican and Democrat, can learn a lot from the state, she said.

"Kansas is a barometer" for the rest of America, she said.

"We're in the middle of the country. A lot of our standards and issues are right in the middle" of popular debates, she said. "Kansas reflects often what people are thinking and feeling and troubled about."

Some of the stories about Kansas she sees in national media present a distorted picture of the state, she said. Most Kansans, she said, care about education, health care and jobs as much as, if not more than, say, abortion.

Regardless of the issue, "I think watching what happens in Kansas is pretty interesting," she said.

Sebelius did add that she thought the state could use some more Democrats.

"Howard Dean understands that each state party has to set the tone for its own state," she said. "I'm enthusiastic he wants to build a 50-state party. It's been a long time since we've had that kind of attention."

But that's not because anything's the matter with Kansas, she stressed.

It's because Kansas matters."

[Scout1071]

67. Actually.....she is the Governor of Kansas.

[madfloridian]

68. Funny, I just saw that.

Did not notice before.
:hi:

[98geoduck]

52. Both chuckle-heads Carville and Begala had it out for Dean during the ...

primaries. They were definitely working ops for Kerry with a full time smear of Dean and his wife. media manipulation, yeah their just as guilty as the right wing-nuts. I haven't watched their idiotic show since, with the exception of viewing Jon Stewart's clip. They ARE "HURTING THIS COUNTRY" and it wasn't just Fucker Carlson he was directing that statement at.

[autorank]

55. This was one of the GREAT moments in political TV.

Jon Stewart brought both Begala and butt-boy Carlson a solid dose of reality and got the show dropped. When the heck does that ever happen? The audience turned on BOTH hosts immediately when Stewart made his pitch and this proved his point. It was amazing stuff.

We've got a little ways to go but somebody is going to put together a blog news service (actually RawStory is already). That means a blog wire and we're f'ing in business. And then, it won't be so easy to smear progressive candidates (i.e., candidates who are not owned by corporate America).

Dean at DNC :yourock:

[madfloridian]

57. Are you working with Blog Pac?

I am seeing some great posts there at Kos tonight. They are putting together some good info.
Here is a link to one of today's posts.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/2/25/161929/908

[autorank]

59. No but thanks for the link. I will be an early adopter of the service!

PS. Excellent thread. You got things going. As they say, "lively debate."