Why can't we put popular positions ahead of unpopular ones?

[napi21]

A fella just called into the Guy James show had a very good point. The Dems have put unpopular positions at the top of their agenda.

I hope we can all recognize that abortion and gay rights are not extremely popular positions.

Why can't we make jobs, anti outsourcing, real health care change, support for american workers (including the unions). Still include pro-choice and gay rights, but make the mmore popular and more widely accepted issues the top of our agenda.

[mermaid]

1. I Agree. And I'm Transgender.

I have said for quite some time that, by insisting our issues be at the top of the agenda, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

Same goes for the far-left folks like the vegans and the greens, the environmentalists, etc...

They ... and MY people...need to make a little sacrifice, and have our issues not be ignored...but also not put at the top of the agenda....because that is causing people who wish to cause us and our causes HARM to get elected.

We gotta get the meat-and-potatoes issues back at the top...talk about fair wages, the corporate avuse of workers and consumers...things that a lot of people will relate to.

Right now...what do you think when you hear "Libertaian?" If you're most people....what you think is...oh, yeah, the guys who want to legalize pot and other drugs.

Well, Democrat and Liberal is getting framed in that sense, too. WE have to re-take control, and WE have to define ourselves. for too long, we have been letting our enemies, the Repukes, define us. And it cannot continue.

[Selteri]

5. I reluctantly agree,

what we need to do is push forward our popular agenda more publically and be strong enough to stand together in spite of our person projects needing to go into the back ground.

None of us have to enjoy sacrifices, but sometimes we all have to make them for the greater good, be that surrenduring a gun, accepting a larger tax bite or having to keep whatever it is that we fear bringing out in society for personal safety in a society that is unacepting of the strange yet benign and often overly flagrant about the dangerous and obvious threats.

[Runcible Spoon]

9. I think it is a sick and sad commentary on our nation's values...

that environmental causes are classified as "far left"....*sigh*

[Selteri]

11. You're not just whistling Dixy

I've been trying to get fundraising together for an ecologically forward recycling system and people give me strange looks for even thinking to speak of the idea of recycling anything into something useful that isn't inside of a small little box.

[mermaid]

16. That Is Because, For Most People, Recycling Involves "Too Much Work."

people just want to throw it out and forget it, and let someone else deal with it.
Sad but true.

[sandnsea]

14. The environment is our BEST issue

It's the only one that almost all Republicans actually agree is a huge concern. What we have to do is change the debate from saving the red vole to protecting our water, air and food supply. It can't be about pretty places anymore. Mostly because our very lives really do depend on healthy environmental practices.

[meow2u3]

2. Republicans put unpopular issues on top of Democrats' agenda

And Dems let the pukes frame the debate. Guess the Dems got sucker punched once more.

[mermaid]

10. That's What I Just Said

AND WE NEED TO STOP LETTING THEM FRAME THE DEBATE!!

WE NEED TO BE THE ONES DEFINING OURSELVES...OR WE WILL CONTINUE TO LOSE.

End of rant.

[Al-CIAda]

3. I agree 100%. Worker party! -eom

[Warpy]

4. The economy should be first and foremost, and I don't mean

the pandering to the yuppies that the DLC has become infamous for. I mean the very real issues of how to share wealth in the wealthiest country on earth, how to make sure we keep jobs here, how to ensure people have a living wage, how to guarantee health care and retirement.

Lots of people are realizing those GOP tax cuts simply haven't panned out again and they're looking for a little economic justice.

That doesn't mean abandoning the planks of reproductive and gay rights. If they stupidly do that, I guarantee you most women and gays will start voting Green.

However, Clinton was right. It IS the economy (stupid).

[Selteri]

6. Ah, going back to the classic argument,

It's the economy Thtupid!

[Warpy]

7. Gore and Kerry both forgot about that

and promised "business as usual" with yuppie solutions to our problems that wouldn't have done diddly squat for any working class person.

Look how well it turned out for them. Both elections were close enough to steal.

[Hippo_Tron]

23. Gore and Kerry forgot to hire Carville

And they both used Shrum, BIG MISTAKE. Shrum doesn't know how to frame the debate. Carville does.

[napi21]

8. I agree, except, when a lot of people hear that, they think

the stock, market (economy). It's not! We need to hammer the effects of a high national debt, the devaluation of the dollar, the lack of not only decent jobs, but superior jobs in our country, the purchasing power of your money. That's the economy, but if you go out on the corner and ask a dozen people what is the economy, I bet they'll say the stock marked, or at best, the unemployment rate.

We need to drum the real information into the common man's head that what he has heard is just plain wrong1

[rfkrfk]

12. 'safe district' Dems, are part of the problem {IMO}

I guess people get bored, and do something
just to do something.

goofy California gasoline laws
Rangel's national draft
no smoking in taverns

[sandnsea]

13. They put them there

We won abortion 30 years ago, THEY keep putting it back at the top of the agenda, not us. Democrats would be perfectly content to move on to other issues. But every time we win a fight, they want to tear it down. They always have. After we win gay civil unions, and we will, they'll spend the next 50 years fighting to take it away. They have to have something to keep people from paying attention to the corporate crooks.

[napi21]

15. But the Dems have to be smart enough not to let that happen!

For goodness sake, don't we have any decent stragetists in this party? I've managed to be in arguments and when I realized I was not winning, i managed to change the direction of the debate to an issue I knew I could win. I hope I'm not the best the Dems have out here! If I am, we may as well shut down DU and every other Dem site, because we are totally lost!

[sandnsea]

18. I understand

But the person who called in is part of the problem. He thinks WE put abortion and gay rights at the top of the agenda and when he repeats it, he helps keep abortion and gay rights at the top of the agenda. Their propaganda is so strong that Democrats believe it. I had someone discussing partial birth earlier. A very liberal person who thought we should eliminate them. Didn't know that there are hardly any and never thought about how ludicrous it is that an 8 month pregnant woman would just up and have an abortion on a whim. Our own people believe their propaganda, in 100 different ways. So we can't change the subject when our own people believe what the right wing says.

[napi21]

22. Of course, but the Dems let that happen!

As a Dem who listens to cspan, cnn, msnbc, npr, and the daily show (geesh what a combination!), I can tell you I sure don't remember anyone arguing that late term abortions are always done for the life of the mother! The best thing I ever heard was that there's nothing in the medical community called partial birth abortion, and that was from a few doctors over the last few years. After watching as much TV and listening to as much talk radion as I do, I've only heard that a very few times, I'd bet most of the people have never heard it at all!

One of the reasons I wanted Edwards as VP was because of his trial lawyer experience, and he failed in the campaign. I didn't see the fast of his feet lawyer out there, and I must admit, I was disappointed.

We need to get out candidates better able to speak clearly, and speak the truth!

[sandnsea]

25. We tried

Back when the partial birth debate first came up. Dems believed the Pub argument. Too many Democrats don't take responsibility for their own brainwashing by Republicans. Look at the gun issue and how many Dems call other Dems gun grabbers these days. We won that debate back in the 80's and now rank and file Dems are helping Pubs bash us as liberal weanie gun grabbing pacifists. The leadership can't do it alone, the rank and file has their role in it too.

[napi21]

27. Absolutely you're right, and we can't even do this on DU!

How in the world did the Pubs get such loyalty? They all just follow the talking points!

I don't want us to go that far, but I sure would like to see some more consolidation in our efferts as a party!

[Hippo_Tron]

21. YES we do, James Carville, Paul Begala, and Joe Lockhardt...

To name a few. Of course these guys get bashed every other minute here on DU because somebody doesn't like something that they said on CNN. I don't really give a shit about what they say on CNN, they are strategists and all I care about is whether they can win elections or not.

Clinton used these guys and won in a landslide. Gore didn't use them and because of it, he blew a great opportunity to become President. Kerry didn't use them until September and although they did great work in the last 2 months, it was too late.

These guys invented the "war room" and the "rapid reponse". They know how to deal with the media and how to fight back. These guys should work on every Dem presidential campaign until we can find people who are better.

[meow2u3]

30. What no one bothers to tell the American people

We won abortion 30 years ago, THEY keep putting it back at the top of the agenda, not us. Democrats would be perfectly content to move on to other issues. But every time we win a fight, they want to tear it down. They always have.

It was Republican-dominated courts that gave us abortion and gay civil unions. The justices in the Roe v. Wade decision who ruled in favor of Roe were 6 Republicans and 1 Democrat; 2 Democrats dissented. In Massachussets, the majority of State Supreme Court justices were appointed by Republican governors. Repubican judges are far more activist than their Democratic counterparts, regardless of their ideology.

So let's throw that back in the faces of the Sacrelegious Fascist Pigs, formerly known as the Religious Right.

[OneBlueSky]

17. we can try all we like, but the media will continue to go with . . .

the most controversial issues to sell more ads and commercial time . . . as long as the media is controlled by mega-corps in league with the oligarchy and out to make more bucks, they'll report in whatever way will most help the Republicans and harm the Democrats . . . as long as Michael Jackson's trial trumps the war in Iraq and the most corrupt administation in history, the Democrats will remain the party of abortion and gay rights on the front pages and leading the nightly newscasts . . .

[napi21]

24. You're right that the media will report the most controversial

issues. It's all about making money! What the Dems have to be able to do is create the controversial issues! Look how the SBVFT are now bragging that they spent all of $50,000 and got millions of $$ of publicity out of it.

I don't agree that they're out to make Dems look bad and help PUbs. I think we simply let a lot of the criticism happen without a sufficiently angered response.

I'm hoping Dean will help change all of this!

[Clarkie1]

19. I agree - electoral and voting rights should be at the top of our agenda.

Those are issues all Americans can agree upon, and if the Republicans don't follow our lead we can make them pay in 06' diebold or not.

But we have to keep the issue front and center, and educate the electorate.

Even screaming about it might be an appropriate response. I hope Dean keeps it front and center.

[Hippo_Tron]

20. That's how Clinton won in '92

He was very pro gay rights, but the debate in '92 wasn't about gay rights. The debate was about why people lost their jobs and couldn't afford healthcare under Bush.

[AuntPatsy]

26. If I am not mistaken, that is exactly what Kerry did,

he went with important issues and yet in the end, it didn't matter. I don't agree with this, many Dems are not putting gay marriage, abortion rights at the top of their agenda's, it is Forced their by the Repubs...

A simple football move of continuing an offensive play leaving many Dems to play defense. But even that is not exactly going according to plan at times, so what they do is simply ignore the other issues when Dems play offense by keeping their base and the "Media Outlets" focusing on the issues that rile up the religious right so much..

It is just not as easy as this guy thinks considering the mindset of those sheep that play not only dumb, but deaf as well, but in my mind to completely lose focus of where Dems stand on those issues means they would be backing down by ignoring those very issues which are a part of this base even if they are not top priority.....

[porkrind]

28. Good point. It's because we're always running defense

We're always addressing republican attacks on us and don't "frame the debate". I think one problem is that the democratic leadership has been too tied into the Washington establishment and not enough on populist issues. If we concentrate on issues like jobs, health care, environment, deficit, and corporate reform, instead of gay-rights and abortion, we might win. These are things people care about and they are suppressed by the establishment corporatocracy. I think Howard Dean is just the leader we need to connect with our populist base.

Of course we need election reform also, to keep the right-wingers from continuing to rig elections.

[KnowerOfLogic]

29. Wrong. REPUKES have put those at the top of our agenda. Either

we cave to the hate and ignorance mongering, or we fight back and win. Right now we're just running for cover, and so the attack continues, and it will continue for as long as we let it. There is no way to 'de-emphasize' these things; the repukes will keep them at the top of the agenda for as long as it's working for them. Our job is to do the work and change the minds so these issues *don't* work for repukes.