Where's the empathy at?

[jpgray]

In the aftermath of Iowa, really, how silly does the GD2004 forum look?

For example, we have probably near 1800 threads on Dean's speech. 900 make vicious fun of it or sagaciously state why it was bad, and the other 900 specially approve of it in a shrill tone, or sagaciously state how Dean can bounce back. Why so many threads on this? It was an embarrassing moment, so one group capitalizes on it cruelly and the other reacts with equal amounts aggressive loyalty the same amount of nastiness. This happens to supporters of ALL the candidates at various times. When one candidate is whipped in dozens of threads, his supporters feel obligated to start a rash of their own negative threads. Why? I assume because they dislike the negative threads on their own candidate. :crazy:

Golden rule, anyone? Where is the empathy? If you can't feel for people who support Dean, and rather think that you should cruelly kick them while they're down, then that's really a shame. It's a shame because the worm has turned several times already, and what you give out when another candidate is down, you will recieve back with interest, because people do not forget it. Dean supporters have been guilty of this same behavior, so when they cry foul, people remember when a Dean supporter last trashed their candidate, and they harden their hearts against a whole group because of a few bad apples. Again, there are bad apples in every group.

Post whatever you want--I'm hardly the official arbiter of discourse here--but if you engage in vicious attacks as opposed to reasoned criticism, expect to receive it back with interest.

[Democrats unite]

1. Sorry I only give empathy...

Where it is deserved.

I am reminded of a phrase growing up "you've made your bed now lie in it".

[denverbill]

25. That's a pretty stupid reply, considering your user id.

[demnan]

2. You are right

I'm glad to say I've mostly avoided that kind of discourse but I will defend Dean when necessary, hopefully without the shrillness.

As for the worm turning. A funny thought occured to me. What if Lieberman were suddenly to catch fire? I think this forum would be really interesting to read at that point! :D

[jpgray]

4. If Lieberman caught fire, the universe would come to an end

There would be plagues and raining fire and slaughter if Lieberman ever led in this race. :)

(sorry Lieberman folks, just don't think he'll win)

[boxster]

3. I think the problem is that it could very well be a defining moment,

perhaps THE defining moment of this campaign.

In my opinion, that's why it's getting so much attention and why it's such a big deal. Because, in reality, it IS a big deal. It could be the end of Dean's political career, and the fact that his career could hinge on 5 minutes of misguided behavior is sad.

But, the bottom line here is that we are looking for someone to represent us as President. The big debate really boils down to what people believe is "Presidential". The people put off by the speech think he's "damaged" because this display was unpresidential. Those who support him want someone to represent their anger and determination.

[Cheswick2.0]

5. We're not down

and the speach was fine. Nice try though

[jpgray]

6. Okay (nt)

[demnan]

9. On the speech

I think it's supremely unfair to use that speech as a reason to call Dean "unpresidential". That speech - probably delivered in the wee hours of the morning by an overly tired candidate to his overly tired young supporters - was a rallying call. A leader shows emotion when he has to to encourage his followers and that was what Dean was doing. It wasn't William Churchhill in the Parliment, it was William Wallace on the moor.

[molly]

7. Empathy for a campaign that went after Kerry while he

was fighting cancer - I think not!

[demnan]

10. Come on

when did the Dean campaign ever criticize Kerry for, or allude to his cancer problems?

I take that as a personal insult as my Dad died from prostate cancer.

[sandnsea]

14. Aw, come on

It's time to go forward. People are suffering. I know we've suffered, I know. But creating more strife doesn't seem to be the answer.

[Bonobo]

8. I agree. So why start ANOTHER thread? n/t

[democratreformed]

11. That's why I keep my mouth shut

about the silly stuff. B/C I and my candidate could be next.

[sandnsea]

12. My first post was empathetic

I've done nothing but try to be supportive and lift the Dean supporters up from the gate. I've criticized one of my favorite Kerry supporters. Lots of people have been empathetic.

At the same time, out have come the Skull & Bones, Ketchup money, and other stupid Kerry threads. There was even a stupid Edwards psychic thread and a trial lawyer thread. How many threads do you see started whining about either? The only time I've even referred to the event is when people tried posting trash as a way of deflecting the problem Dean has.

For months there have been people on this board who have tried to tell Dean supporters that they attack and never see it. But they're always the first to whine when Dean does something, all on his own, that is just over the top. And he does it time after time after time.

People looked at Dean and found him wanting. After railing against everything, the only thing he was really qualified to talk about was health care. And that's just not enough to get into the White House. He lost. And whatever people find exciting about his riled up persona, there's way more people who find it offensive. That's just the way it is. I've dealt with aloof and arrogant for months and it's so untrue and unfair. But I don't post 10 threads a day complaining about it.

Whatever happens, happens. Perhaps the people working on this campaign will get a little taste of what our political leaders are up against. It's not easy trying to convince people that your message is the right one.

Anyway, buck up Dean supporters! New day. Work as hard as you can so that no matter what happens you can take pride in knowing you did everything you, personally, could to change the country.

[Jerseycoa]

13. Probably half of these threads

have been posted by Dean supporters. Enough already.

[StClone]

15. Here's a thought

Just what if Howard Dean is the one to take America back and lead this country to a new and better situation. What if he were the one to balance the budget, reclaim world admiration, fix the Iraq mess and build the economy.

But due to the silliness of perceptions of the enthusiasm displayed for his hard working staffers, he is laughed off. Come on American and especially DUers lets move on. This is beneath us and only serves those wishing to bring each and every Dem down one at a time.

[soleft]

16. I was looking for empathy

Or at least to feel that I wasn't alone in my feelings - as a type of person not mentioned in your thread.

A Dean supporter who couldn't believe her eyes. A Dean supporter with a shock to the system. A Dean supporter who feels he committed a fatal gaffe and I'm deeply concerned about what this is going to do to all of us who have been rooting for him since we first heard of his intentions to run.

Are there others like me? People who sincerely, and I mean sincerely - I am no bullshitter - supported Dean who now feel like there's no way he can win - and I'm sorry if that's a defeatist attitude, I would love nothing more than to see a miraculous comeback

People who are not expressing their shocked reaction about the speech because they were anti-Dean, and people who are not in denial about its effect because they are pro-Dean.

[jpgray]

18. I didn't forget you :-)

You are one who "sagaciously stated why it was bad." I didn't mean to tie candidate support to one opinion on an issue--people think differently. Sorry if I gave the wrong impression. :hi:

[OKNancy]

17. Suck it up

Don't you think other campaigns have had hard times? I remember when my stomach turned over when I heard about the Gore endorsement.
There was a lot of preening and bragging and certainly no empathy for the other guys.

Turns out it meant zilch. Maybe Iowa will mean zilch too.....then again maybe not.

[jpgray]

19. I wonder, who do you think I support for the primary? :-) (nt)

[OKNancy]

22. Clark

The ONLY candidate that has a remote chance in Nov 2004 to win my state...Oklahoma

[THUNDER HANDS]

20. I think it would be easier to feel empathy for Dean

If he wasn't totally at fault for what he did. But he acted without thinking at the most crucial moment imaginable.

[beaconess]

21. "It's behind that preposition"

:spank:

Sorry - I couldn't help it - that's what my father always tells me when I end my sentence in a preposition.

Of course, a fair response to my obnoxious comment about grammar would be,"OK then, where's the empathy at - bitch?"

Anyway - thought we could use a laugh.

Carry on.:pals:

[jpgray]

23. LOL

I feel appropriately chastened. :)

[emulatorloo]

24. Lots of people are emphathetic, I know I am

I like Howard Dean, I have since I first heard about him. I will so work for him if he is nominated.

I am emphathic with the disappointment Dean supporters feel.

I also think Howard Dean is far from down and out. This is just the beginning of the run up to the convention.

But I am upset by the huge amount of posts from what may be a minority of Dean supporters that Iowans are ignorant rubes and media dupes, NBD (in spite of the fact that 4 more years of GWB will probably destroy this country, and will certainly ruin the Supreme Court), that Kerry Clark Edwards are just the same as GWB (in spite of the fact that there is really nothing that can support this position rather than a deliberate misreading of their records), that others are stealing Dean's message (despite the fact that the core of Dean's message is the message of the Democratic Party) attacking other candidates based on their looks, spouses. These positions are extreme, and they bother and worry me.

I am willing to accept that these are the minority of Dean supporters. I think that people who are gloating/not emphathetic are a minority as well.

On Edit: grammar grammar

[jpgray]

26. Yes, those posts irritate me as well. (nt)