Is the Dean campaign led by a member of AIPAC?

[loudnclear]

I heard this on the radio and need someone to verify. I don't know the name of the program because I was in my car and tuned in during the middle of the discussion. Since I usually only listen to C-Span or NPR it most likely was on one of their programs.

If this is true, it gives me pause. I personally like Dennis Kucinich the most but was going to be a willing supporter of the Dean but I am strongly against anyting neo-con, PNAC, AIPAC since I believe that they are ruining the country with their belligerent agendas.

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. Yes, and he has been very helpful to Dr Dean,

"...the former Vermont governor declared that, while the United States should become more engaged, he did not have any fundamental objections with President George W. Bush’s policies...

When asked by the Jewish newspaper Forward late last year as to whether he supported APN’s perspective, Governor Dean replied "No, my view is closer to AIPAC's view."..

He also rejects calls by APN and other liberal Zionist groups that Israel’s requested $12 billion loan guarantee be linked to an Israeli freeze on constructing additional illegal settlements on confiscated Palestinian land, arguing that such aid should instead be unconditional...

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0226-04.htm

[drfemoe]

4. "He" who?

what's the name of this person from AIPAC who is "leading" Dean's campaign?

[DuctapeFatwa]

22. Steve Grossman is his name. It is not a secret

He is Dean's co-coordinator, or co-campaign chairman, I am not certain of the exact title, but his role in the campaign is public information, and Dean has certainly raised a lot of money!

[11cents]

5. re: Yes, and he has been very helpful to Dr Dean,

Who is the "he" you refer to?

[Syrinx]

2. what's AIPAC?

[La_Serpiente]

13. The American Israel Public Affairs Committee

http://www.aipac.org/

[drfemoe]

3. what do you mean

"led by" a member of AIPAC?

[11cents]

6. Heh. Several people posed the same question at once

So who is this leader, Ductapefatwa? You appear to be referring to somebody specific.

[killbotfactory]

7. There's a former member of AIPAC helping Dean...

But from what I've read, he was a moderate AIPAC member and was hated by the hardliners.

[killbotfactory]

8. More info: His name is Steve Grossman

http://www.jewishsf.com/bk970117/ustakes.htm

[JohnKleeb]

12. I thought that was the name

thanks.

[drfemoe]

17. he's a co-chair

for the campaign .. what does a co-chair DO? I have my doubts that the answer is "lead" the campaign .. as the thread title proclaims .. but enlighten me?

[IndianaGreen]

9. I disagree with a lot of the things AIPAC is doing, but...

I am not about to engage in some sort of McCarthyism in which people have to go through a "have you now, or have you ever been a member of (fill-in the blank here)" type of inquisition.

[Josh]

19. For God's sake, THANK YOU Indiana!

It really boils my blood to see people condemn someone for having anything that even closely resembles support for Israel. I think some of the people on this board would sooner condemn Dean for his ties to AIPAC (just look at how people refer to Lieberman) than if, hypothetically, he was endorsed by al Qaeda!

[Sensitivity]

28. Is AIPAC support for violent Zionism is morally superior to Al Qaeda?

Just asking?

[IndianaGreen]

32. AIPAC does not support "violent Zionism," whatever that means!

The problem with AIPAC is the same the NRA has. They are being run by extreme rightwingers. They should both return to their core mission! For AIPAC, it means stop parroting the Likud propaganda line and concentrate on preserving and enhancing the unique relationship that exists between the US and our long-term ally Israel. For the NRA, it means ditching the DeLay and militia ideologies and concentrate on teaching gun safety and defending the Bill of Rights, which includes the right to bear arms.

[corporatewhore]

10. Where Dean stands

(snip)
Last December, Dean told the Jerusalem Post that he unequivocally supported $8 billion in U.S. loan guarantees for Israel. "I believe that by providing Israel with the loan guarantees ... the US will be advancing its own interest," he said. His unconditional support for the loan package, in addition to $4 billion in outright grants, went further than even some of the most pro-Israel elements in the Bush administration, like Paul Wolfowitz, who wanted to at least include some vague restrictions like pushing Israel to curtail new settlements and accept a timetable to establish a Palestinian state.
(snip)
In fact, Dean's alignment with AIPAC and their right-wing politics goes much deeper than aligning with the group’s platform. Last year, he named Steven Grossman, a former AIPAC head, as his campaign's chief fundraiser. Soon after, he flew to Israel on an AIPAC-sponsored junket.
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16280
(snip)
n his major foreign policy address to date, a February 17 speech at Drake University in Iowa, Dean blasted the Bush administration’s foreign policy regarding Iraq and several other areas, but – when it came to Israel and Palestine – the former Vermont governor declared that, while the United States should become more engaged, he did not have any fundamental objections with President George W. Bush’s policies. Dean called for an end to Palestinian violence against Israeli civilians, but he did not call for a cessation of Israeli violence against Palestinian civilians. Similarly, there was no call for an end of the Israeli occupation, for Israeli compliance with UN Security Council resolutions, or a withdrawal from Israel’s illegal settlements in the occupied territories or even a freeze on the construction of new settlements.

The liberal wing of America’s Jewish community is represented in the views of Americans for Peace Now (APN), which supports negotiations with the Palestinians based upon the principle of land for peace, that is, Israeli withdrawal from the occupied territories in exchange for security guarantees. The conservative wing is represented by the America-Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which supports the policies of Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and his government’s ongoing occupation and colonization of Palestinian land seized in the 1967 war, repression of the Palestinian population, and refusal to negotiate with the Palestinian leadership.

When asked by the Jewish newspaper Forward late last year as to whether he supported APN’s perspective, Governor Dean replied "No, my view is closer to AIPAC's view."

In November, Dean paid his first-ever visit to Israel on an excursion that was organized and paid for by AIPAC. He was apparently unperturbed at his sponsors’ close ties to a government that engages in a pattern of gross and systematic human rights violations and blatantly violates a series of UN Security Council resolutions and other international legal principles. During his visit, Dean did not meet with any Palestinian leaders or any Israeli moderates.
(snip)
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0226-04.htm

[Octafish]

11. Dean prefers AIPAC over APN.

In his own words, Dean's political views are closer to the America-Israel Public Affairs Committee than Americans for Peace Now. Read it below...

In Prexy Bid, Vt. Gov Taps AIPAC Vet
Married to Jew, Courting Others

By E.J. KESSLER
FORWARD STAFF

Governor Howard Dean of Vermont, who is seeking the Democratic presidential nomination in 2004 as a fiscal conservative and social liberal, is making a concerted effort to develop a national Jewish constituency for his candidacy.

In a wide-ranging telephone interview with the Forward, Dean, a physician, reflected at length on his "internationalist" foreign policy, his attachment to Judaism through his wife, who is Jewish, and on how having a Jewish family has informed his views on Israel.

Dean spoke with the Forward shortly after naming Steven Grossman, a former head of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee and ex-chairman of the Democratic National Committee, to a top campaign fundraising post. In addition, Dean said he is traveling to Israel for a week at the end of the month with the American Israel Educational Foundation, AIPAC's educational arm, to meet with Israeli officials and Arab leaders.

SNIP...

Asked if his appearance at the Peace Now event should be read as a signal of his views on the Middle East, Dean said, "No, my view is closer to AIPAC's view." He said he was bestowing the award because the honoree and fellow Vermonter (Patricia) Barr "is a remarkable humanitarian who has served her state and me. I would not turn down an opportunity to honor her."

CONTINUED...

http://www.forward.com/issues/2002/02.11.22/news3.html

[WiseMen]

25. Example of Radical "Before and After" changes in Dean's Positions

[Octafish]

31. It's an example of how his positions evolve. LMAO.

Dean's positions evolve to saying what his audience wants to hear. When it comes to the Middle East and many other questions of foreign and domestic policy, I wonder if his supporters will be surprised to discover his positions are basically the same as Bush.

[mouse7]

14. Grossman worked with AIPAC before Likud/Sharon

AIPAC was a completely different organization when the Israeli Labor Party was in power. Barak was never anything like the butcher Sharon is. Peres wasn't a spineless enabler of the Likud agenda then either.

Rabin's assassination seemed to suck the fight and soul right out of the Israeli Labor Party.

Anyway, AIPAC was completely changed by the Likud just like the neo-cons fecal touch turns anything they touch to sewage here.

[no name no slogan]

29. Labor was not much better than Likud

Labor was just the kindly face of Israel's continued illegal expansion into the occupied territories.

Even during the period of the Oslo Accords, Israel NEVER stopped building settlements in the West Bank and Gaza Strip. As a matter of fact, settlements INCREASED after Rabin and Arafat signed the Oslo Accords, even though the accords called for a moratorium on new settlements. More Palestinian land was seized under Rabin's government than under the previous Likud-led coalition government.

And still the Palestinians get criticized for not being "accomodating" enough.

Regarding the rights of the Palestinians in the territories, the only difference between Labor and Likud is the fact that Likud is HONEST about its hatred of Palestinians, while Labor puts on a friendly, civil face to the outside world while it continues its ethnic cleansing of the occupied territories.

Most Palestinians do not see much difference between Likud and Labor either, as they BOTH want more Palestinian land added to Israel and don't support a TRUE, SOVEREIGN PALESTINIAN STATE.

The Palestinians have been more than willing to "give way" on the subject of Israel since the mid-70s. All but the most radical Palestinian groups have acknowledged Israel's right to exist, and only want Israel to return to its pre-1967 borders, and allow the Palestinians their own state in the lands of the occupied territories.

How anybody could not support such a basic claim as the right to self-determination by the Palestinians is beyond belief.

[KaraokeKarlton]

15. Dean has a really great position on Israel

He covered his views quite extensively during the question and answer period of his recent Foreign Policy Speech. You can probably find it on www.cspan.org

This issue is too complicated to just listen to what you read here. Go watch the cspan video online and I'm certain it will put your mind at ease.

[DuctapeFatwa]

21. His position on Israel is one of the things that makes him so popular

I posted this above, but here it is again, for convenience


"...the former Vermont governor declared that, while the United States should become more engaged, he did not have any fundamental objections with President George W. Bush’s policies...

When asked by the Jewish newspaper Forward late last year as to whether he supported APN’s perspective, Governor Dean replied "No, my view is closer to AIPAC's view."..

He also rejects calls by APN and other liberal Zionist groups that Israel’s requested $12 billion loan guarantee be linked to an Israeli freeze on constructing additional illegal settlements on confiscated Palestinian land, arguing that such aid should instead be unconditional...

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0226-04.htm

[KaraokeKarlton]

16. Watch this Cspan online video to get your answer

Dean covers his position on the Isreali/Palestinian conflict extensively in the question and answer period after his foreign policy speech.

rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04121503_dean.rm

[Meshuga]

18. Did He Reject His Promises To 4x Military Aid To Israel?

Which he promised - specifically and pointedly - without any conditions? That is further than even Paul Wolfowitz was willing to go!

I also wonder if he called for Israel to stop the violence. I have read several times where he called for an end to Palestinian violence, but never Israel.

Dean maybe the "antiwar" candidate (or at least would have given Bush authority under a resolution with a different name), but on virtually every issue he seems to be very hawkish. Never more so than with Israel and Palestine.

Considering that the IWR is in the past, but Israel is something that will actually occur during the next 4 years, it gives me great reason to pause as to whether Dean is the man we think he is. Are we so desperate to find someone that "opposed" IWR that we will compromise ourselves on every other issue?

I don't know about you, but my vote is based on what I think a candidate will do as President. And, frankly, Dean spooks me a little.

[LuminousX]

23. They all spook me

[DuctapeFatwa]

24. who expected anyone to say bush doesnt support sharon ENOUGH?

You have to hand it to Dean. That was pretty clever!

I doubt the bushies were expecting that one :)

[TexasSissy]

20. What is AIPAC?

[Meshuga]

30. An ultra-Hawkish Pro-Israel Lobby

Often backing, if not pushing further than Ariel Sharon and the hawkish Likud party.

AIPAC is a tremendously powerful lobby in Washington, and few candidates are willing to cross their paths. Even those that do usually are careful to use their words correctly. For instance, Kerry called for parallel concessions from both sides - a very progressive position - but he had to couch it in pro-Israel language. Kind of the reverse of Dean, who couches his hawkish postion in progressive language.

[TexasSissy]

33. Thanks.

[TeacherCreature]

26. ROFL!

sure he must be.... it that is what it will take to give people people "pause".

Tomorow people will get pause over some other rumor I am sure.

[DuctapeFatwa]

27. I don't think Mr Grossman's position is a rumor. It seems to have

been quite public information for some time now.

[TexasSissy]

34. If this is true, now I understand where Dean got his contributions

from. And I am distressed to hear this, if Dean in fact wins the nomination.

That means he'll be in the pockets of this group, as well as labor unions. Environmental concerns - out the window. Peace in the Middle East - out the window. True neutrality in the Middle East - out the window. This is very scary. Almost as scary as Baby Bush.

[stickdog]

36. Where? (nt)

[stickdog]

35. Steve Grossman is also a former DNC Chairman.

Which of these two organizations are you most concerned about?