Kerry's Russell Trust No Big Deal? How S&B Funded Hitler

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

Averill Harriman was one of the members of Russell Trust, that along with Prescott Bush, another S&B, helped bring Hitler to power and helped finance his wars. Still, no word from Kerry about distancing himself from the Russell Trust...

http://www.guerrillanews.com/newswire/164.html


George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, was the Managing Director of the investment bank Brown Brothers, Harriman from the 1920s through the 1940s. It was Brown Brothers, in conjunction with Averell Harriman, the Rockefeller family, Standard Oil, the DuPonts, the Morgans and the Fords which served as the principal funding arm in helping to finance Adolph Hitler's rise to power starting in 1923. This included direct funding for the SS and SA channeled through a variety of German firms. Through associations with the Hamburg-Amerika Steamship line, Nazi Banker Fritz Thyssen (pronounced Tee-sen), Standard Oil of Germany, The German Steel Trust (founded by Dillon Read founder, Clarence Dillon), and I.G. Farben, Prescott Bush used the Union Bank Corporation to funnel vast quantities of money to the Nazis and to manage their American interests. The profits from those investments came back to Bush allies on Wall Street. Thyssen is universally regarded as having been Hitler's private banker and ultimate owner of the Union Bank Corporation.

Early support for Hitler came from Prescott Bush through the Hamburg-Amerika line -- also funded by -- that funneled large sums of money and weapons to Hitler's storm troopers in the 1920s.

"In May 1933, just after the Hitler regime was consolidated, an agreement was reached in Berlin for the coordination of all Nazi commerce with the U.S.A. The Harriman International Company... was to head a syndicate of 150 firms and individuals, to conduct all exports from Hitler Germany to the United States."

According to Tarpley and Chaitkin a 1942 U.S. government investigative report that surfaced during 1945 Senate hearings found that the Union Bank, with Prescott Bush on the board, was an "interlocking concern" with the German Steel Trust that had produced:

- 50.8% of Nazi Germany's pig iron
- 41.4% of Nazi Germany's universal plate
- 36% of Nazi Germany's heavy plate
- 38.5% of Nazi Germany's galvanized sheet
- 45.5% of Nazi Germany's pipes and tubes
- 22.1% of Nazi Germany's wire
- 35% of Nazi Germany's explosives

The business relationships established by Bush in 1923 continued even after the war started until they became so offensive and overt as to warrant seizure by the U.S. government under the Trading with the Enemy Act in 1942.

No Big Deal?

ON EDIT:

More specifics on the Russell Trust:
http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc808.html

"As soon as Bush got into the White House, one of the first social gatherings he had was a reunion of his Skull & Bones members. Then almost immediately he started appointing other members of Skull & Bones into positions into the Justice Department and later the Office of Homeland Security."

Was Kerry there at the Russell Trust Reunion party when Bush took power?

"members of the Skull & Bones did indeed oversee the deployment of the atomic bomb. They did choreograph the Bay of Pigs invasion. They did fund Hitler when they could."

No Big Deal?

[blm]

1. Kerry's grandfather was Jewish. His mom's home was burned down by Nazis.

Do you REALLY want to post something so offensive to smear Kerry?

Try being honest and FAIR and KNOWLEDGEABLE about this.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

4. Then why hasn't he said something about Russell Trust?

I would think he'd be the frist to denouce it? Did he know about his Jewish ancestry before he joined Russell Trust? What does he think about it now?

"Try being honest and FAIR and KNOWLEDGEABLE about this"

Sure, when is Kerry going to say something? I would assume he would have quit by now. How can we complain about Trent Lott and the CCC when we have our own people in groups like this?

[sangha]

9. Your linked article says NOTHING about Russell Trust

Stop pretending that the Trust is an issue

[blm]

12. Listen to yourself.

You should delete your own post out of sheer decency.

You don't use Nazi references against someone whose own life was personally effected by the reality of Nazi stormtroopers.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

15. Ask Kerry why he's still a member with George W. Bush?

That's the question. I'm just a random internet poster - I'm not running for President.

[blm]

16. You have no responsibility towards decency because you're on the internet?

I expected better.

[blm]

54. No answer?

.

[sangha]

21. More deceit

In the first post, the question is why Kerry hasn't criticized the Russell Trust. Now it's " why he's still a member with George W. Bush?"

How many posts before the question changes again?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

25. hey sangha, why do you want to avoid the issue?

Why don't you just say, "It's no big deal that Kerry is a member of the Russell Trust, and organization with 100 year ties to most fascist movements, the atomic bomb, the Bay of Pigs, the Bush family, and Hilter's financiers".

I guess it's no big deal to *some* people.

[sangha]

27. OK

It's no big deal to WCTV if s/he changes it's arguments midstream while pretending that what was said from the very beginning. Nope, it's no big deal to *some* people

[sangha]

2. Very dishonest

Your link says nothing about Kerry or the Russell Trust

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

7. Averrill Harriman and Prescott Bush were both Russell Trust

Their children are now members with Kerry. Those facts are not in dispute are they?

[sangha]

11. Your link says nothing about Kerry or the Russell Trust

It's very dishonest to pretend that you have an issue here.

If you were sincerely concerned about RussellTrust, you would have noted that NONE of the candidates have said anything about it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

26. fixed, check the second link

!

[sangha]

29. More deceit

The link has nothing about Kerry and does not say that SnB members are officers of Russell Trust.

[deutsey]

3. I don't like Kerry

and I think S&B is a weird secret soceity, but I can't see how you can hold him accountable for what S&B did in the '30s.

Kerry joined in the '60s and, from what I understand, he helped open the all-male, all-white order to women.

I think if these Nazi ties are true, that says a lot about the guys who were active in S&B back then. However, in my mind, the above argument blaming Kerry is like saying people who work for NASA now should be held accountable for those who brought former Nazi rocket scientists into the space program.

[displacedtexan]

5. Isn't it interesting...

that this wasn't an issue 3 days ago?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

10. It's been an issue ever since Kerry announced

It's been posted on DU numerous times in the last few years. Kerry refuses to say or do anything about it, or to distance himself from it.

[sangha]

14. That's not true. Let's see a link

No one on DU has EVER made an issue of Dems not complaining about the Russell Trust.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

28. well, what you said is not true, what I said is true

Info about Kerry's Russell Trust association has been posted on DU many times over and over again for two years. Search the archives - there's at least 50 posts!

"No one on DU has EVER made an issue of Dems not complaining about the Russell Trust."

Who said anything about "Dems not complaining"? Whose claims are you arguing with? Not mine evidentally. Are you trying a strawman here?

[sangha]

32. Well, at least your deceit is consistent

Someone responded to your original post (which states the issue is why hasn't Kerry spoken out against the Russell Trust) saying it's never been an issue on DU. Your defense is that it someone on DU posted information about the Russell Trust before.

Kerry is NOT a "member" or officer of Russell Trust.

[The Magistrate]

35. Indeed, My Friend

This drivel has been put up before, but your not having noted it is pardonable: it would sink rapidly toward archive with few intervening hands, as the overwhelming majority of forum members are politically knowledgeable enough to know it for a loopy distraction. That seems to be the consensus of the commentary here now, and it has only drawn comment because Senator Kerry is much more in the news, and some are clutching at straws to stave off the reality of his recent success in Iowa. The general line of attack being that he cannot "really" be a Democrat, on some spurious ground or other, the sachems of Conspiracism seek to fish, too, in the troubled waters, in search of noteriety and recruits.

"If you don't vote for the right lizard, the wrong lizard might get in!"

[frank frankly]

65. gawd you and words, magistrate!

beautifully written! and right on!

[poopyjr]

6. LOL AND SO IT BEGINS

[NewHampster]

70. No it began Monday night

[Caution]

8. so let me get this straight...

Because Kerry belongs to the Russell Trust, and because some other guy who was a part of the Russell Trust 70 years ago was also associated with Prescott Bush and was a part of a firm that funded the nazi's, somehow this makes Kerry a part of some worlwide conspiracy (along with of course his notorious association with <ominous music>Skull & Bones</emd ominous music>.

By the same logic I'm sure I can associate Kerry with the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, The October Revolution and the Horde of Genghis Khan.

Please point to things on Kerry's political record that show him to be a part of some evil conspiracy whereby the ultimate goal is nefarious world domination or whatever it is you conspiracy people think they are all after.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

13. They had a hand in the Bay of Pigs too

That's about the time Kerry got involved, right?

"Please point to things on Kerry's political record that show him to be a part of some evil conspiracy whereby the ultimate goal is nefarious world domination or whatever it is you conspiracy people think they are all after."

YOU said evil conspiracy. I just pointed out that Kerry has no problems joining a corporations with long ties to some of the Nazi's biggest supporters.

What hypocrites - we trash Bush for what S&B did 70 years ago, but Kerry is above criticism?

[sangha]

19. More deceit

You claim that Kerry is a member of the Russell trust. Kerry is a member of SnB, but that doesn't make one a member of the Russell Trust, AFAIK

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

22. Ha ha - nice spin there, sanha - Russell Trust IS S&B

The Russell Trust is the official name, now called "RTA Corporation".

Yeah, talk about deceitful!

[sangha]

24. More deceit

Please document your assertion that RT *IS* SnB.

SnB is a club that has members. Corps don't have "members". They have officers. One can be a member of SnB without being an officer of the Russell Trust.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

30. yes, you are being particularly deceitful

RTA Corporation is the legal entity that owns S&B. You probably know that, but I can understand why you want to cloud the issue.

Sort of like how Clark fans say - "The School of the Americas was closed" when of course, it was renamed to WHISC.

Keep it up, you are doing a great job of clouding the issues. If only I had your talents...

[sangha]

33. RTA Corporation is the legal entity that owns S&B

Sam Walton owns Wal-Mart but he's not responsible for everything a Wal-Mart "member" (ie employee) does. Nor are the employees responsible for what the other employees do.

[AntiCoup2K4]

63. You're right. Sam Walton's not responsible

..because he's burning in Hell.

But his kids sure as Hell are responsible for the sickening policies their megastorechain uses to exploit cheap labor, illegal aliens, and the destruction of small town business all over America.

[Caution]

23. actually we trash Bush

for the actual corporations that Prescott Bush actually participated in which funded the nazis. There is a world of difference there.

Kerry being involved in S&B and his loose association with Bush as a result may or may not be an issue to some people, but Kerry's rise to power had very little to do with the influence of his family whereas Bush owes his entire fortune to the legacy of Prescott Bush, which is undeniably tainted with supporting hitler.

Personally, I am less concerned about Bush's ancestry than I am about his own actual policies. What his family may or may not have done should not be held against him. If Bush had turned out to be a Democrat, had been very liberal and had spent his time as a public servant actually serving the public as Kerry has rather than spending his time serving corporate interests would we hate Bush because his grandfather aided and abetted the nazis?

[paulk]

42. I believe John Kerry was seventeen at the time of the Bay of Pigs

While probably to young to participate, I have no doubt that he had a hand in the planning...

:crazy:

[aldian159]

55. Using WCTV logic about Russell Trust:

We can link Kerry to the death of Jesus. Surely it's Kerry's fault Jesus was killed!

Kerry is from Mass, the "state" the Pilgrims landed on.
The Pilgrims were from England, which was conquered by Julius Ceaser.
Ceaser was a Roman.
Roman was the nation that tried and sentenced Jesus.

Oh my! Time to brand Kerry for what he really is: the slayer of Jesus!

[yellowcanine]

17. No story here.

Dragging up Nazi connections between a Yale secret society in the 30's, even if true - which is certainly not a given, has no relevancy to today or the 60's for that matter. You don't need this junk to find plenty of reasons to attack Bush and why are you trying to sleaze bomb Kerry? If this is all ya got on Kerry I would say ya got nothing.

[JVS]

18. Would you say who you support for the candidacy?

There is so much acrimony here from people claiming that X supporters smear Y supporters that at least it would be nice for accounts to be straight.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

31. I'd vote for DK, Edwards, or Dean

easily at this point. For the most part I'm ABB.

[zulchzulu]

20. Run for your lives!!!!!

They are coming to get you.

[Caution]

34. from your own link

<snip>

I was actually surprised because there was a lot more basis to these theories than I had expected. For example, members of the Skull & Bones did indeed oversee the deployment of the atomic bomb. They did choreograph the Bay of Pigs invasion. They did fund Hitler when they could. But it wasn’t the organization pulling the strings. It was the individual members. There are cliques within Skull & Bones that tend to gather together and elevate each other to power and then exert their control and influence… It’s not that Skull & Bones as an entity is specifically and directly pulling the strings. It’s that individuals within the secret society are pushing each other to positions of authority and working their influence from there.
<snip>

Are you going to tell us that somehow Kerry and Bush belong to the same clique? That Bush is secretly trying to get Kerry into the White House?

That all members of the <ominous music>Skull & Bones</end ominous music> are a part of this "conspiracy" and that they all look out for one another no matter what? Vague generalizations and veiled attempts to smear someone don't actually constitute any type of proof that any of what you are trying to say is relevant. Hell I think that all NY Yankees fans are evil and that George Steinbrenner (yet another GEORGE!!!) is actually attempting to control all of baseball. So therefore anyone who would pay for a yankees ticket or who was drafted by the Yankees organization or anything of the sort must be a part of this conspiracy. How do you know if Kerry even has any remote connections to the <ominous music>Skull & Bones</end ominous music> anymore? You keep calling for him to repudiate it but if he were to even bother acknowledging the <ominous music>Skull & Bones</end ominous music> he would of course just pour fuel onto the fire of this ridiculous theory.

And let's say just for the sake of argument that all of the worst possible things they say about the <ominous music>Skull & Bones</end ominous music> are actually true. That they have been controlling the world for the past 200 years or so along with the Illuminati, the Masons, and the Pillsbury Dough Boy. Well guess what, if it is all true than we don't stand a rats chance in hell of putting a stop to it and political activism that isn't related to straight up revolution is a total waste of time.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

36. the second step is laughter

then comes the fighting, then we win. So mock all you want - Ha ha, Kerry voted for the Iraqi War for his frat brother Bush.

Kerry is no joke, and this is not a laughing matter.

[The Magistrate]

37. Congratulations, Mr. Caution!

You have, in your closing paragraph, put your finger precisely to the problem with this entertaining style of looking at the world around us. It is, at bottom, merely an appeal to wallow in helplessness and self-pity, however these may be disguised by protestations of energetic outrage. If things are really so controlled by Hidden Masters, who play both sides of every quarrel, then there is no point to any activism, to any attempt to improve the situation of the world; indeed, it can be pretty safely assumed that any apparent attempt to do so is actually just one more machination of the Hidden Masters, and you may rest assured that, were the preliminaries of revolution, even, to show in the offing, those clutched in this view of things would warn you that was just another of their devious plottings. Why they do not suppose the inneffectual "researchers" who bring them these exciting tit-bits are not mere agents of the Hidden Masters, charged with a sort of innoculatory function toward their deeper camouflage by exciting wide derision through their clumsy near-exposures, is beyond me....

"By compare to chaotic indifference, even sleepness malice wears a friendly face."

[bigtree]

38. Zeta Psi - Gov. Dean's Fraternity

Gov. Dean's fraternity; including Pete Wilson, Les Aspin, the entire Dean Witter family, and a number of wealthy businessmen. ...
http://www.psiofzetapsi.org/history.cfm

Should I post all of the sins of that fraternity?

Hazing deaths? More? Does any of it have to do with Gov.Dean?

The Psi Epsilon chapter of Zeta Psi fraternity has been permanently derecognized by Dartmouth College as punishment for publishing three internal newsletters with offensive sexual content.

Wellesley Woman Taken to Hospital After Intoxication at Zeta Psi Party. MIT dean suspends alcohol by all at Zeta Psi fraternity. State Officials Block Keg Sale at Zeta Psi.

The general headquarters Zeta Psi Fraternity indefinitely suspended their local chapter at the University following the discovery of alleged racially offensive pictures posted on the Web site partypics.com, according to Aaron Laushway, assistant dean of students and director of fraternity and sorority life.

The pictures, taken at an Oct. 31 Halloween party cosponsored by both fraternities at the Zeta Psi house, depicted several costumed students with their faces painted black. The photographs pictured one individual dressed as Uncle Sam with his face painted black. Two other students painted their faces brown and dressed as tennis stars Venus and Serena Williams.



Zeta Psi

A Place of Fun-Loving Debauchery
Or Is It
A Place of Fun, Loving, and Debauchery


"Be this our guide till life is ended, The spirit of Tau Kappa Phi. In faith and true devotion blended Our loyalty shall never die." - Israel C. Pierson, Phi, 1865 The Present Men of Zeta Psi ...

Famous Zetes From All Over the World
Lesley S. Aspin, Yale, Former US Secretary of Defense
John R. Brodie, Stanford, NFL Hall of Fame, Sr. PGA Golfer
William C. Buck, Lafayette, Exec VP of TDH Capital Corp, part owner of Philadelphia Phillies
Dean Cain, Princeton, Actor, Plays role of Superman in "Lois and Clark"
James Cantalupo, Illinois, President of McDonalds International
Admiral James J. Carey, = Northwestern, United States Navy Reserve
Joseph F. Cullman, Yale, Former Chairman of the Board of Phillip Morris Inc.
Dr. Howard B. Dean, Yale, Governor of Vermont
Biran Dickson, Manitoba, Retired Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada
Ken Dilger, Illinois, NFL's Indianapolis Colts
Albert R. Dowden, Middlebury, President & CEO of Volve of North America Corp.
John Gebhardt, NYU, Managing Director of PaineWebber Inc.
Richard H. Fould, Stanford, NCAA Championship Men's Tennis Coach
Harold "Red" Grange, = Illinois, NFL's Chicago Bears, one of ESPN's top 50 athletes of the century
Jon K. Grant, Western Ontario, Chairman of Quaker Oats of Canada
Ronald G. Greene, Calgary, Chairman of Renaissance Energy Ltd.
William Harrison Jr., North Carolina, Vice Chairman of Chemical Bank
Conrad Harrington, McGill, Former Chancellor of McGill University
Arden Haynes, Manitoba, Chairman and CEO of Imperial Oil Ltd.
Perry S. Herst, Brown, President and CEO of Tistman West
Paul B. Hicks Jr., Virginia, President Texaco Europe
Fred M. Kirby, Lafayette, Former Chairman of the Board of the Allegheny Corp.
Roy McMurtry, Toronto, Canadian High Commissioner to Great Britian
Shaun F. O'Mallery, Pennsylvania, Chairman and CEO of Price Waterhouse
Dr. Julius A. Stratton, = Washington, President Emeritus of MIT
Dr. Benjamin Spock, Yale, Noted author and Physician
Sir John Templeton, Yale, Owner of Templeton Mutual Funds
Eric P. Wente, Stanford, President of Wente Brothers Winery
Peter B. Wilson, Yale, Governor of California

more?


Don't like where this is going? How about if I take each member, investigate them and uncover horrible things. Would any of that relate to Gov. Dean?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

39. Hmm. Violent hazing vs. financing Hitler...

:eyes:

[bigtree]

40. Slick evasion

How about if I take each member, investigate them and uncover horrible things. How would any of that relate to Gov. Dean?

Let's see. Pete Wilson. Didn't he want to end affirmative action? Wasn't he in that fraternity that Howard Dean belonged to? So that's the way it is in that fraternity! Anti-affirmative action.

Black-face skits! Didn't Howard Dean belong to that racist fraternity?

[The Magistrate]

41. Chilling Evidence, Sir....

It is hard to see how anyone cannot draw from it the conclusion Gov. Dean is a corporate Republican stooge....

"On the whole, I'd rather be in Philadelphia."

[seventhson]

44. By excusing those who backed Hitler

when the attention is distracted towards the absurd notions about Deans bona fides, I believe people do us all a disservice.

Kerry is a member of a secret order of people whose members financed, bankrolled, coddled and strategized with Hitler. He JOINED this order AFTER they did these things and it was a metter of public record that they did so (Harriman, Walker and Bush, all shareholders and all skull members, were PUBLICLY identified in 1942 as being Hitler's bankers in New York on Wall Street. As a senior at Yale, Kerry cannot plead ignorance. NOR can he plead that now. Nor can YOU plead it now (the generic/collective you)).

We ALL know that the Bushes were in up to the crowns of their heads with Hitler. It is public record that Skull members did thisa and Kerry REFUSES to say one word about it. I say they are guilty of crimes.

If that does not concern anyone, then I feel sorry for you.

[The Magistrate]

45. It Does Not Concern Me In The Slightest, Sir

The establishment of the Reich was an especial study of mine some decades ago, and the only courteous comment that has left possible for me towards your assertions above is that they are mis-guided. As the matter has no actual relevance to the current primary election contests, it can be safely left at that, just as there is no real point debating theology with some fellow who lately substituted Christ for heroin.

[molly]

61. Think "My Fair Lady" and you've got it!

:yourock:

[The Magistrate]

67. Thank You, Ma'am

The original, Mr. Shaw's play "Pygmalion", is an excellent and enlightening entertainment: the old motion picture, with Leslie Howard, is well worth seeing.

"In Hartford, Hereford, and Hampshire, hurricanes hardly happen!"

[seventhson]

43. Kerry's Ancestors FOUNDED Skull and Bones with Opium money

Kerry is member of the Forbes family which financed the creation of the Russell Trust which is the Skull and Bones financial trustee (now RT). They made a lot of their fortune off the Turkey-Chinese opium trade in the 1830's, according to many sources.

(One SOURCE (or google Forbes, russell trust, opium):

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/quiz.html

Both the Kerry and Bush family are legacy members of Skull and Bones; Insiders whose families USE Skull to further their goals by recruiting the elites of the elites to enter the world of politics, finance, military, intelligence and any other useful field to promote global plutocracy of the wealthiest American Anglo-German familes.

Jews and women have been admitted, but this is predominantly a wasp ortganization based on the principles of Hegel, the philosophical parent of Naziism.

It is a secret order which embraces its "spooky" reputation in part in order to enhance its own mythic significance, but also to permit it to masquetade as ONLY a freaky death-obsessed "fraternity".


Loyalty and secrecy oaths are reuired. They are lifetime oaths and these are lifetime memberships.

Kerry's Jewish ancestors married into the Forbes family. The Skull members who financed Hitler were motivated not only by antisemitism but also by sheer grotesque greed.

Members of Skull and Bones have committed and been involved in covert operations to destabilize democracies and assassinate their political/economic opponents via their recruitment inot the intelligence community, CIA, NSC, 40 committee, and the shadow intelligence operations which are "off the shelf" and not official.

Most of the excesses of the CIA in murder and destabilization of democracies (and IMHO even the murder of JFK and RFK) were carried out by folks either recruited out of Skull or by members of Skull who ran these operations.

The Director of Personnel for the CIA in the 1950's was a Skull. His boss Allen Dulles, head of the CIA and brother of Sec. of State John Foster Dulles, worked for the Bank which financed Hitler, the law firm which represented IGFarben, which ran Auschwitz, and was the partnewr of the Bushes and Walkers and Harrimans (all Skull members) who bankrolled Hitler.

NOW - you can deny history totally and say this means NOTHING.

Or you can look, as I do, as Skull and Bones as ONE very significant component in a complex financial and political network of elites who use these organizations and our own government to achieve their own financila andf political goals (i.e. global domination of all governments and all markets and resources).

In other words they are motivated primarily by sheer greed and self-aggrandizement and IMHO, in perhaps a more significant way, they are motivated by MAINTAING their dominance by any means necessary so that they are never held accountable for their crimes against humanity.

In this way of perceiving the issue of John Kerry and his allegiance to the secret ORDER of Skull and Bones - his candidacy is PRIMARILY the defense mechanism of this secret order to protect the assets and necks of the criminals who are its members.

IT IS THE ELITE'S PERCEPTION OF THE DIVINE RIGHTS OF KINGS TO RULE.

But it is also to save their necks from the provernial guillotine if they are ever exposed.

Kerry will NOT turn on his brethren the Bushes if he is elected. He is sworn to protect them and the order.

Their crimes will remain unpunished and they will be free to carry on their global hegemony and dominance with his help.


THAT is what I believe.

YOU can believe whatever the hell you want to.

Only time will tell if I am right.

BUT can we afford to take the chance that I am even 10% acccurate in my assessment?

I have a LONG history of research in these issues.

My father was an intelligence operative who worked with the Jewish underground in Nazi-occupied territroy.

His BROTHER was member of Skull and Bones.

My father was betrayed by these bastards as were the Jews of Europe AND our own GI's who were killed on the battlefields of Europe by the HUNDRED's of thousands.

Just as our soldiers are being betrayed today by the Bushes and Carlyle and Halliburton in Iraq and Afghanistan.

YOU support Kerry - the man who voted to let Bush, his Skull brother, have his nasty little war tyhat has killed 500 americans and thousands of innocents and wounded countless more.

YOU say this does not matter and is trivial and stupid and paranoid.

YOU say that. Go right ahead. Be my guest.

But sure as hell not me.

Kerry and all the skulls can rot in hell for all I care if they were knowingly complicit in helping or covering up these crimes against humanity in ANY way.

If Kerry does win - I hope I am wrong about him.

But I do NOT believe we can take that chance.


VOTE DEAN. VOTE EDWARDS,

But do NOT vote for Kerry or Clark (whose ties to the BFEE via the Stephens Group is as bad as Kerry or worse)

Americans are naive and even stupid about history.

I hope this dialogue opens some eyes, but I doubt it will.

Believe what you want but do NOT EVER say you were ignorant of these historical facts.

Especially if Kerry wins.

WE'll see if he indicts Bush I or II. LOL

[The Magistrate]

46. The Turkey-China Opium Trade, Sir?

There was not much of that; it was not viewed as a very desireable article at Canton. Jardain and Mathesson were the principle suppliers of bottoms to the trade, and the article came from India. It is most unwise to teat "What Really Happened" as a source; they generally do not know there....

[seventhson]

48. What's YOUR source?

I just cited one and suggested folks google if they want more. There's plenty of sources. I LIKE what really happened.

[seventhson]

51. Turkish Opium Google to back me up (Jeez)

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22Turkish+Opium%22+China+%22Opium+wars%22&btnG=Google+Search

[The Magistrate]

57. Utterly Worthless, Sir

If you are at all interested in the facts of the opium trade in China, begin with Peter Ward Fay's "The Opium War, 1840-1842": it ought still to be readily available, and provides a reliable survey of source materials.

The random collection of juxtapositions of the words Turkey, China, and opium you have provided contains nothing of worth, and seems mostly to reference articles on the Boxers, a quite seperate phenomenon, in which some mention seems to be made in their introductory portions of opium. The Boxer outbreak is indeed a fascinating thing, and an excellent scholar's work on them is Joseph Esherick's "Origins of the Boxer Uprising": no work written since does not cite it extensively.

[curse10]

47. skulls and bones! skulls and bones! skulls and bones!

the sky is falling! the sky is falling!

[oasis]

60. Kerry's cousin's kindergarten playmate was Squeaky Fromm's prom date.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

64. let's take a moment to thank Kerry for his heroic stand defending Gary Web

When he reported about the same things that Kerry investigated about Bush. Oh wait, that's right, Kerry didn't say a word.

[oasis]

94. Not too many New Hampshire voters would be interested. Convince them.

After Kerry wins NH it's all over, then you can start digging up dirt on the chimp.

[jpgray]

49. WhoCountsTheVotes: I really want to get Kerry

Well, good luck, but if you only have this silly stuff, you aren't going to get anywhere.

Guess what? Plenty of Ivy League bankers funded Hitler in the thirties and even into the forties. Guess what? Many if not all of these were members of fraternities and secret societies.

When somebody shows me how S&B is ANY different from other Ivy League secret societies, I might give these threads an ounce of credence. Otherwise we see the same tired three links and a bunch of "ooh it's secret and they have a skull in there!" nonsense.

Books were written about this, covering everything from what goes on in the Tomb, to what GHWB said about his sex life in this "secret" atmosphere. It isn't secret, it's all over the internet. It isn't unique, dozens of Ivy League secret societies exist, and they all have ties to anti-Semites, Hitler-investing bankers, and powerful positions in government. If you don't have something intelligent to add, why are you posting?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

52. why isn't he saying anything about 911?

Why isn't Kerry saying anything about how the Bushes have been in business with the Binladens? How come Kerry isn't saying anything about BCCI, the financing from Pakistan, the Bush arrangments with Iran? He's supposed to be the expert, he's supposed to be the one that fought Bushes, supposed to be the one that investigated?

So? Is he just a miserable failure? He struck out three times?

I couldn't care less about whatever freaky fratboy rituals Skull & Bones do behing closed door. But hey, maybe the fact that Kerry and Bush are both brothers, from the elite, wealthy aristocratic familes - maybe that explains why Kerry just seems to cover Bush's tracks whenever push comes to shove - the war against Iraq, the Patriot Act, the hush-up of BCCI.

Did Kerry stand up for Gary Webb? NO. Kerry's a fake.

[jpgray]

53. Well, if you want to condemn him for this, it's your business

You are holding him to a standard you apparently don't hold the other candidates to. You know why nobody brings this up on a campaign trail? Because few members of the public knows about these things, and since the coverage is so soundbite-driven, everyone is obligated to come up with short and catchy stances on all issues. There isn't room for a longwinded reverie on BCCI and other convoluted scandals. People already complain Kerry puts them to sleep, you want him to delve into the intricacies of the banking scandal on the stump!?

No candidate is doing these things, why do you hold Kerry to such a standard and not the other candidates?

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

59. Yes, I hold Kerry to a higher standard

Kerry has the connections. Kerry is a member of the elite. Kerry is establishment. Kerry has more money than God. He's supposed to be the leader - he's supposed to be the one that fought the Bush clan. For my entire adult life, Kerry has done nothing but cloud the issues and give everyone false hope. Just around the corner, Kerry's going to do something ... sometime, in the glorious future.

If Kerry can't do it, what the hell good is he? He should put up or shut up. The fact he doesn't say a word speaks volumes.

Why didn't Kerry stand up for Gary Webb? That alone should prove that his whole investigation was a fake.

[seventhson]

56. Umm When you say this it means WHAT?

"...dozens of Ivy League secret societies exist, and they all have ties to anti-Semites, Hitler-investing bankers, and powerful positions in government. If you don't have something intelligent to add, why are you posting"


Ohh. It means "So What?"?

Yes there are also ties between the most elite secret societies and the extreme right at Harvard and Princeton and probably a handful of other places.

Their members go on to interlocking corporate directorships with the Skull bastards.

So WHAT?


THIS is exactly why America is so fucked up.

And those who try to excuse it inspire little respect from me.

The main reason any of us who care about history post about this stuff is to educate our fellow citizens because we as Americans are generally as dumb as a box of rocks. It shows.

[bigtree]

50. Here's one.

On the 20/20 interview they pointed out that as Bush and Gov. Dean went to Yale together. And that:

W's grandmother was bride's maid at Howard's grandmother's wedding.

Hmmm. :P

[The Magistrate]

58. Well, That Ties It, Mr. Tree

Our Hidden Masters have all their bases covered; Gov. Dean is just one more iron in their fires....

[Pax Argent]

62. Hey, all of the candidates have had the class to declare a truce,

any chance we can do the same? The enemy is sitting in Washington. He is not campaigning his ass off in NH for the honor of serving our ungrateful butts. He did not put up his house for the privilege. My favorite is still Dean, but you got to admit Kerry literally put his money where his mouth is. They all deserve a lot of respect.

[incapsulated]

66. A note to Kerry supporters..

Forget these Skull and Bonehead threads.

The amount of people that buy into this crap are so insignificant they literally don't matter.

It's just too stupid to be offended by.

[seventhson]

68. Skull and Bones IS the enemy

IMHO

Ignoring it, pretending it is insignificant or untrue, neglecting historical ties of the elites to illegal intelligence (sic) operations which benefit only wall street -- this is our enemy: neglect and ignorance.

Kerry should at the very least renounce his membership and sever his ties to the Bushes if he wants any of OUR votes.

YOU vote for Kerry. NOT ME.

[seventhson]

69. one last kick to let the Kerry campaign know we are still watching

nt

[The Magistrate]

71. And Another, For Any In Need Of A Good Chuckle....

[Dr Fate]

76. Hey Seventhson- tell us about Jimmy Carter's "evil connections" again

Is there ANY DEM you wont smear? Remember when you tried to say Jimmy Carter was a "stooge" of the Defense industry???

You crack me up!!!

[seventhson]

78. Trilateralist picked by David Rockefeller

Kissinger and Brzezinski when Nixon sank and Ford was tanking.

Shill for Lockheed Martin in Latin America.

Nuclear Engineer and Militarist.

Born Again Christian.


He was picked to be the Dem President by the Repugs from Wall Street and the CFR folks.

That's just history.

I like Gore. I like Dean. I like Kucinich and Edwards too.

I like Lieberman better than Kerry or Clark.

[Loren645]

72. For what it's worth, I saw Kevin Phillips on CSPAN booknotes

He's the author of American Dynasty, on four generations of the
Bush Klan. And he doesn't cut them any slack, as far as I can tell.
He stated that he thought the Prescott Nazi tie is unproven at best.

[seventhson]

82. Dubya's official biographer , Parmet, confirms the Prescott Bush-Nazi ties

here is the proof of THAT:


http://hnn.us/articles/1811.html

[RainDog]

89. Phillips' book says differently

I also saw him on C-span, and he said that people on the internet were (my paraphrase) going wild about Prescott Bush and the Nazi connection.

He also said that it is a subject which could warrant investigation, and the files should be available in the Library of Congress over some of these issues.

However, he also notes in his book that corporate regulation was so lax back early decades of the twentieth century that documentation wasn't exhaustive.

Phillips notes that Prescott Bush and George Herbert Walker were both involved with Harriman in various deals with Germany after ww1. Many patrician young men were involving in financial schemes to make money off the rebuilding of Europe after the war, but some of them avoided Germany because of their role in WW1. (btw, the Dulles brothers also looked to Germany to make money.) This money-making could also be seen as a "Marshall Plan" --privatized and for the profits of a few, fwiw.

Phillips notes that American investments in Germany in the 1920s were controversial for various reasons, including aiding previous or potential enemies. p37

Brown Brothers Harriman was an active investor "in a Germany rapidly rearming under Adolf Hitler." (this at a time when Germany was not supposed to rearm, btw.)

Prescott Bush handled much of the German work at Brown Brothers Harriman p38

The Justice Dept. was probing German-connected investors in '41. In March '42 a special Senate Committee held public hearings on cartel agreements b/t U.S. and German firms.

William S. Farish (whose son is George H.W. Bush's money handler...among other financial services), pleaded no contest to criminal conspiracy b/c of dealings b/t his company, Standard Oil, and I.G. Farben.

A Skull and Bones Sec. of War Stimson requested that FDR stop the investigations...ostensibly to make sure those companies would not be distracted while dealing with the war effort.

But inquiries went on via the Trading with the Enemy Act of Dec. 1941.

In 1938, Prescott had been collaterally involved in shipping tetraethyl lead needed by the Luftwaffe via the Ethyl Corp., again with Farish as director (and half-owned by Standard).

1941 headline in NY Herald Trib read: "Hitler's Angel Has $3 Million in U.S. Bank." The article noted that Thyssen had channeled the money into the Union Banking Corporation.

UBC was "nominally owned by a Dutch intermediary that Brown Brothers Harriman ran for the German Thyssen steel family. Prescott Bush was a director.

In Aug. 1942, property of the Harriman, Herbert Walker controlled American Ship and Commerce Corporation was seized under the trading with the enemy act.

On Oct 20, the alien property custodian seized the assets of the Union Banking Corporation.

In Nov. the govt seized the assets of the last major entity connected to Harriman, Walker, and Bush--the Silesian-American Corporation." p39

Phillips says that the outcome of these dealings is that no one said anything about them, much.

Phillips says, "it's almost as if these various German embroilments, depsite their potential for scandal, were regarded as unfortunate but in essence business as usual...A surprising number of the descendants of men who had dealt with Germany, William S. Farish III, William Draper III, Joseph Verner Reed Jr. (grandson of Remington chair) turned up as close personal advisors or high-level appointees in the George H.W. Bush administration." p40

Remington is interesting too-- a part of the structure of certain well-heeled financiers in the U.S. who had interlocking links. Remington was part of Thyssen's American "friends" --Samuel Remington was named an original director of the UBC.

The Merchants of Death hearings (special Senate Committee which investigated the Munitions industry) didn't get too far into the "major 1933-34 surge of U.S. military exports to Hitler's Germany." (and the state dept. leaned on the committee to make no reference to secret reports about German rearmament.)

fwiw- U.S. investment (ITT, GM, Ford, Standard Oil, GE) in Germany increased by 48.5% b/t 1929 and 1940, while it declined everywhere else on the continent.

..in other words, Phillips seems to say that Prescott and Herbert Walker were both financially entangled in Nazi Germany--along with lots of other corporations whose manufacturing investments in Germany were bedrock for the German warmongering.

Rather than single out Prescott, it's important to see that globalization in that era had very negative consequences because of the greed of a few wealthy individuals, and at the eventual expense of American lives, not to mention the extermination of the majority of the Jewish people on the European continent.

That's quite a high price to pay for rich people to compete among themselves to amass more money.

[seventhson]

92. This, RAINDOG, is VERY useful

I amazes me that folks try to minimize the significance of this and then use vague references to try and :debunk" easily provable facts about the Bushes or Skull or whatever.

The NAZIS with help from SKULL members were planning on attacking AMERICA, for God's sake!!!

Buyshesd were BEHIND this effort which was WELL known in 1942.

Skull members were behind it which became well known in 1942 with their prosecution under the trading with the enemies act.

KERRY's family were financiers of Skull and Bones.

To WHAT end? I guess we shall see.

Kerry joined the ORDER AFTER all these facts were well known.

Case closed.

[snoochie]

73. This is why people hold on to religion

Watching all the people here sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming "LA LA LA" so they don't have to think about this is really sad.

"The truth about the nature and power of the elite is not some secret which men of affairs know but will not tell. Such men hold quite various theories about their own roles in the sequence of event and decision. Often they are uncertain about their roles, and even more often they allow their fears and their hopes to affect their assessment of their own power. No matter how great their actual power, they tend to be less acutely aware of it than of the resistances of others to its use. Moreover, most American men of affairs have learned well the rhetoric of public relations, in some cases even to the point of using it when they are alone, and thus coming to believe it. The personal awareness of the actors is only one of the several sources one must examine in order to understand the higher circles. Yet many who believe that there is no elite, or at any rate none of any consequence, rest their argument upon what men of affairs believe about themselves, or at least assert in public.

There is, however, another view: those who feel, even if vaguely, that a compact and powerful elite of great importance does now prevail in America often base that feeling upon the historical trend of our time. They have felt, for example, the domination of the military event, and from this they infer that generals and admirals, as well as any other men of decision influenced by them, must be enormously powerful. They hear the Congress has again abdicated to a handful of men decisions clearly related to the issue of war or peace. They know that the bomb was dropped over Japan in the name of the United States of America, although they were at no time consulted about the matter. They feel that they live in a time of big decisions; they know that they are not making any. Accordingly, as they consider the present as history, they infer that at its center, making decisions or failing to make them, there must be an elite of power.

On the one hand, those that share this feeling about big historical events assume that there is an elite and that its power is great. On the other hand, those who listen carefully to the reports of men apparently involved in the great decisions often do not believe that there is an elite whose powers are of decisive consequence.

Both views must be taken into account, but neither is adequate. The way to understand the power of the American elite lies in neither solely in recognizing the historic scale of events nor in accepting the personal awareness reported by men of apparent decision. Behind such men and behind the events of history, linking the two, are major institutions of modern society. These hierarchies of state and corporation and army constitute the means of power; as such they are now of a consequence not before equaled in human history -- and at their summits, there are now those command posts of modern society which offer us the sociological key to an understanding of the role of the higher circles in America."

THE POWER ELITE -- C. Wright Mills

[seventhson]

74. Thanks for that Snoochie. This is Poli Sci 101

I worked on the Hill. I was a Poli Sci and investigative journalism major....


AND

I learned about these networks of elites in sociology and political science class. Machiavelli's "The Prince" extensively shows how power elites finance and handle the "opposition" by coopting them and actually recruiting them at an early age, via prep schools, the Social Register, and the Ivy League.

It is a revolting sickness in our society and , worse, it is ignored by those who are most manipulated by it - who do not want tyo believe that politics and finance can be so corrupt.

The BUSHES and other Bonesmen WERE Hitler's Chief money men. They got antisemitic and greedy rich corporations and indivduals to BACK Hitler to the hilt in the hopes he would win. Kerry joined skull AFTER bonesmen had done this and had been CAUGHT doing it - and he STILL joined. That is one thing that REALLY disturbs me. These deals were KNOWN to the skull families who backed Hitler.

The American people sacrificed and BEAT Hitler while the financial families got away with genocide/

The Skull connection is extremely disturbing because it is a PERFECT example of what C. Wright Mills describes.

Most folks are unaware of this knowledge.

Thanks for posting it.

It is PRECISELY MY point.

[Dr Fate]

75. I dont even see Kerry's name in the article?? Are you lying?

You are trying to say Kerry funded Hitler- but his name is not even in the article- sounds like you are lying to me.

[seventhson]

77. Kerry's family were founders of the Order of Skull and Bones originally

Members of that order financed Hitler.

JFKerry joined Skull AFTER it was publicly known that Skull members financed Hitler.

Both Bushes are still members.

So is Kerry.

[MilDem]

79. A couple reasons why.

Keep in mind, I'm not a big fan of Fraternal organizations, but there are a couple reasons why Kerry wouldn't make a point of making noise about this stuff.

1) He'd sound like a paranoid conspiracy guy, not exactly Presidential material (Think Lyndon LaRouche.)

2) You can't reasonably hold the current Bush responsible for the sins of his Grandfather. W. Bush has enough sins of his own to attack him on.

[seventhson]

80. No, no and no

Kerry is a Skull member. Criticizing it would harm him because of this NOT because it sounds paranoid.


The Busdh dynasty was funded with the Nazi fortune made from the Holocaust. Bush I and II were both beneficiaries of thast fortune and Nazis were recruited directly into the ranks of the Republican party and have helped with their political careers. In addition these ties extend to the Saudis, Bin Ladins and other terrorist Nazi-like groups who have been linked to the 9-11 attacks.

NeoNazis and Al Queda are linked to both World Trade Center attacks as well as Oklahoma City.

This is all well documented public record from intelligence sources cited in the media.

You may call the ideas crazy. I call them politics as usual in America.

[bigtree]

81. I don't call it crazy

I call it a dirty smear.

[seventhson]

83. The facts speak for themselves. So does history.

I believe what I believe and you can do the same.

If Kerry IS elected, I hope I am wrong about his motives and intentions. But I do not believe America can afford another Skull and Bones presidency.

THAT is why I say this whenever the subject comes up; for those who are unaware of it or unaware of its full implications.

We've had Bush I and Bush II. Both Bonesmen who are still active in Bones. So is Kerry.

Do we really need THREE Bonesmen in the white house within a 15 year period?

If this is such a nonstory WHY does Kerry REFUSE to even discuss it? WHY does the media refuse to bring it up?

A SECRET ORDER with LOYALTY OATHS and a DEATH MOTIF and members with HUGE financial ties to Hitler and which is based on Hegelian rationality of an oppressive state as the highest reason???


I think anyone who joins it smears themselves.

[MilDem]

84. I don't think the Frat makes the man

I think the Bush's legacy has more to do with their status at right-wing partisans than their participation in the Skull and Bones secret society.

Also, I believe the reason Kerry refuses to talk about S&B, and the reason the media doesn't cover S&B is the fact that it is a non-story. No media types are going to spend their time covering a story that doesn't go anywhere.

I think that secret societies are profoundly stupid, but I don't think S&B connections are a reason to discount a presidential candidate.

[seventhson]

85. Well

I think most americans are profoundly misinformed.

I urge you to read the interview I have posted repeatedly by a Yale grad who wrote a book on the subject, Alexandra Robbins who lays out all the reasons this very wealthy and notoriously CIA-related membership is NOT just another fraternity and why it is damngwerous to have their members running this country.

Here's the link

Read it and tell me if you STILL feel the same.



http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intelligence/doc808.html

I doubt anyone can read this and not be PROFOUNDLY disturbed by Kerry's refusal to address whether his sworn allegiance to Skull and Bones is NOT a matter which he should explain and renounce - and which is a matter which should DISQUALIFY him as a candidate.

[MilDem]

86. Finished reading

Well, it sounds to me just like a thought it was, a rich good old boys network. It fits with Kerry's image as a wealthy New England aristocrat, but I don't see how this makes him part of a sinister conspiracy. It really seems like politics as usual among the wealthy class of America.

I'm sorry, but any attempt to make S&B and issue in this election is simply going to make one look crazy. Kerry's voting record clearly puts him at odds ideologically with GWB. If S&Bs folks were so devoutly interested in ensuring that they all do well, why would Kerry even challenge Bush to an election?

[seventhson]

87. Because no matter which Bonesman wins

the ORDER wins!

Machiavelli's the Prince, a primer on politics, explains well how imperialists run both the party in power AND the opposition party in order to keep power.

OUTSIDERS - those who are not tied into the elites lock stock and barrell - are the ONLY ones we can trust.

In this race I say Dean, Kucinich and Edwards are the OUTSIDERS.

(Sharpton too, but he is not a real contender)

Kerry Clark and Lieberman are the INSIDER candidates and I cannot support them in the primaries.

[MilDem]

88. An argument about insiders and outsiders is different

I understand where you are coming from when it comes from insider and outsider arguments. Some folks prefer a candidate who is not part of the Washington establishment. That's different than a secret society controlling the actions of political leaders. That's an argument I don't buy, and think that Kerry's opponents are making a wise choice by not using it as an attacking point.

[seventhson]

90. A Minor distinction

I have never said that Skull and Bones controls its members per se.

I do NOT believe that the ORDER of Skull and Bones as an organization pulls the strings.

What happens from my perspective is that sociopolitical/financial networks (as explained by C. Wright Mills) are developed which create a superelite of Skull members who interlock with other networks - especially intelligence, military and academic/scientific networks - which arise at Princeton., Harvard and elsewhere, on Wall Street and in the military/intelligence wing of the government.

These networks depend on men who can keep dark secrets and who can be counted on to protect this network at all costs for two primary reasons: global profits and resource control through the manipulation of foreign and domestic governments and their economic policies/ and protection from indictment and arrest for treasonous and illegal activities which in many cases amount to violations of international law and crimes against humanity/genocide.

Chile, Guatemala, El Salvador, Argentina, Venezuela, the Congo, Southern Africa, many psrts of Asia and MANY other examples of the REACH of these networks exist where the principal operators were CIA operatives recruited out of Skull and like organizations mostly at Harvard and Princeton(but predominantly Skull/Yale) and who have maintained DEEP intelligence (sic) covers/ties for many years. They might be bankers, corporate executives, unofficial intelligence consultants etc.. THAT is how these things work.

Kerry MAY be another example of someone who has been groomed by this network from young adyulthood to assume the mantle of government by, in part, intrigue and "posing" as a progressive or liberal - when in fact I believe he is NOT sincere.

His candidacy, under this point of view, is, like Clark's, a defense mechanism to protect these covert and illegal network operations in the event Bush loses.

I have said it before and I will say it again. I hope I am wrong about them if they get elected. But I sincerely believe that neither Kerry nor Clark can be trusted to protect democracy from the very organizations and corporations who put them or helped put them into power.

They will NOT bite the hand that feeds them. They will NOT indict and imprison the Bushes if they are found to have committed treasonous acts. I think they will protect them.

But I believe the OUTSIDERS like Dean and Edwards will let the chips fall on the BFEE and will lead us to those chips, whereas Kerry or Clark would lead us away and astray.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

91. "politics as usual among the wealthy class of America"

That's exactly what Kerry represents, and I for one want no part of it. I couldn't care less about S&B's freaky frat boy rituals. It's what they do AFTER graduation that's the problem.

[seventhson]

93. Yeah . like what they are doing NOW!

2 of them are running for President and the other Bush is cutting oil deals with the Bin Ladens and the Saudis to finance his kids political career as dictator of the world.

Bonesman #2 is waiting in the wings if Bush II falters.

And if he fails we have a Stephens group lobbyist on board.

Unless we STOP these bastards in the primaries NOW NOTHING is going to change very much.