Clark's Air Conditioned Office in Bosnia

[Tom Rinaldo]

On a different thread discussing Clark and Kerry, someone posted the following comment:

"Clark is an out-of-touch elitist who's spent too many decades in an air-conditioned Pentagon office writing memos to remember what sacrifice on the battlefield meant. Truly "amusing"."

I don't know if many people have that impression of Clark, but if so, they might want to revise it.

I thought some might be interested in reading part of Holbrooke's account that covers something that happened while Clark was serving as a Three Star General in Bosnia. I'll leave a link to
pages 9 through 16 of Richard Holbrooke's book, "To End a War", below. It takes a while to download to Acrobat Reader, which you will need to open it.

The account describes, among other things, a tragic accident that happened in the Bosnian war zone when a Armored Personnel Vehicle carrying diplomats engaged in peace talks plunged off the side of a mountain road. The "we" referred to in the quote is Holbrooke and Clark.

"Wearing heavy flak jackets and helmets, we jumped off the edge of the road and walked down the steep incline. We were less than ten feet below the roadbed when enormous explosions went off. Small-arms fire broke out around us. From below and above people cried out in French, "Mines! Get back off the road!" Grasping roots to pull ourelves up, we scrambled back onto the road"...

I don't know how to copy this text, so I am retying some for you. There was further shooting. Clark and Holbrooke determined that the vehicle fell off the road further down. They met up with another vehicle with both French and American occupants. The accident scene lay below. Holbrooke continues:

"Since I was the only person on the mountain who spoke both French and English, I stayed on the road with the French while Wes descended. We anchored a rope around a tree stump so that he could rappel toward the vehicle, which French and Bosnian soldiers had already reached. Huge plumes of smoke rose from somewhere below us. We could hear Clark yelling through his walkie talkie that he needed a fire extinguisher urgently. I looked around frantically, there was none...

"Clark struggled up the hillside, using the ropes. He looked ten years older. "it's the worse thing you've ever seen down there," he said. By the time he reached the APC, he said, it was already on fire, apparently from the live ammunition that had "cooked off" and exploded".

Here is the link:

http://www.philadelphiaforclark.com/holbrooke.pdf

Is that anyone's idea of an "air conditioned office"? Clark and Kerry respect each other. Sometimes I wonder, do the people who try to twist the words and experiences of these men for their own political purpose, truly respect either one of them?


edited for a typo.

[Printer70]

1. What happened?

As far as I can tell, the car went off the side of the road and Clark called for a fire extinguisher?

[Joe the Revelator]

5. Did you even read the article?

if not, it comes down to the fact that you're so blinded for you hatred of one candidate that you can't look at thing objectively.

[Printer70]

11. I read it

Clark called for a fire extinguisher. Please let me know if I missed anything else.

[Shakespeare]

35. Yeah, you missed THIS.

And you're well aware of that. Quite a bit more than just calling for a fire extinguisher.

From the post below, excerpting from an Esquire article:

It is not until one reads Holbrooke's book, "To End a War", that one finds out that after the APC went off the road, Clark grabbed a rope, anchored it to a tree stump, and rappelled down the mountainside after it, despite the gunfire that the explosion of the APC set off, despite the warnings that the mountainside was heavily mined, despite the rain and the mud, and despite Holbrooke yelling that he couldn't go.

It is not until one brings the incident up to the general that one finds out that the burning APC had turned into a kiln, and that Clark stayed with it and aided in the extraction of the bodies; it is not until one meets Wesley Clark that one understands the degree to which he held Milosevic accountable.

[Bread and Circus]

8. Your post is going out of its way to marginalize Clark....

it's disingenuous.

Is that how one is supposed to represent their candidate?

:eyes:

[Printer70]

13. Please explain what I've missed

I must have missed it. What did Clark do here but walk down to the car and call for a fire extinguisher?

[returnable]

9. Clark, Clark, Clark

[Printer70]

12. Militarism, Militarism, Militarism

eom

[returnable]

16. Clark, Clark, Clark

Thanks for keeping this thread kicked :hi:

[Printer70]

21. No Momentum, No Experience, Empty Suit

love kicking this thread :)

[The Magistrate]

25. Others Do As Well, Sir

Are you sure you are not an operative of Gen. Clark's campaign, commissioned to convince on-lookers of the shallowness and foolish character of his opponents?

"It is a mistake to divide people into good and bad. People are either charming or tedious."

[TacticalPeek]

29. LOL!

Right on.

[BootinUp]

34. Sir, that was a classic

I had a good laugh.

[returnable]

30. Clark, Clark, Clark

Keep it kicked - folks will see Clark's accomplishments and *maybe* take note of the sour grapes of one disgruntled poster, but that won't really register on the opinion scale.

I'll take that trade off :hi:

[kiahzero]

10. Apparently, your blind hatred

caused you to miss the fact that they were being shot at by Serb machine-gunners.

Important fact, don't you think?

[Democrats unite]

2. The harder they try to paint Clark what he isn't

The funnier some people look.

[AP]

4. I agree. These attacks just tell you where the candidates' STRENGTHS are.

Why attack Clark for ANYTHING he did in Yugoslavia? Because what he did there is the best argument for his candidacy. Clark has nothing for which to apologize

[MIMStigator]

3. Clark was raised in poverty and low middle class most of adult life

nice try by anti Clarkers though

[jpgpenn]

6. Clark, unlike Kerry didn't need to let the world know about this

At this point perhaps its time. If we have a guy like Kerry willing to show the world what most consider a personal moment for political gain, it might be time for this country to know what a HERo and INTELLECT, Clark is!

[Printer70]

14. Clark = class act?

Could have fooled me the way Clark belittled the sacrifices of rank and file soldiers compared to his shiny four stars. The work of all the junior officers in the country doesn't stack up to those four stars, if you ask Clark.

[xultar]

18. Pitty me...I just cleared my Ignore list and here I go having to put

someone on it again.

:shrug:

[Jerseycoa]

24. I'm not doing mine

until after New Hampshire.

[in_cog_ni_to]

20. Guess what?

Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act!

Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act!

Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act!

Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act!

Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act!

Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act! Clark is a class act!

You can deny it all you want, WE know the truth.

Go, Wes!


Go, Wes!

Go, Wes!

[The Magistrate]

23. Once Again, Fellow

Your effort is nothing but an impudent distortion.

You know perfectly well, having put the quotation up in the forum on several occassions, that the word sacrifice appears nowhere in it, but rather the word experience. Even were one to accept for sake of argument your conceit that the comment was belittling, you are still left with the fact that experience and sacrifice are different concepts, represented in English by completely different and un-related words, that no one fluent in the tongue would dream of employing interchangeably, as one might, for instance, employ in some situations sacrifice and loss, or experience and practice. No one would say they experienced going to the movies to save for buying Christmas presents, but that they sacrificed going to the movies to do that; no one would say they gained sacrifice at house-painting each time they did it, but rather that they had gained experience at it. Your comedic stylings in this matter, fellow, are wearing thin....

"LET'S GO GET THOSE BUSH BASTARDS!"

[jpgpenn]

36. ?

:freak:

[jpgpenn]

really?

You sound like that FAUX news guy Clark slapped around when trying the same SMEAR tactic.

[snyttri]

27. Clark said he "respects" junior officers and Kerry. Your post is not

repectful of Clark or Kerry.

[windansea]

7. good post Tom

I'm sure someone will arrive any minute with a huge snip and paste post that proves Clark is evil incarnate

It's little anecdotes like this that give you a glimpse of a man's real character

[madrchsod]

15. well i`ll be the one!

but i have no idea how to cut and paste. but clark is satan,evil and corrupt in every way,that`s why i`m voting for him. he`s my guy -the guy who can suck up to those other evil bastards in the balkans and "trick" them into being arrested for war crimes..
clark-edwards? edwards-clark? either would be fine with me

[windansea]

17. LOL

:evilgrin:

[ConsAreLiars]

19. copying text from Adobe Acrobat Reader

There is a "T" on the toolbar (8th from left on my version).

Click it and then you can highlight and copy text in the usual way.

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. Thank You!

I never knew that! THAT is a great thing to know.....the things you learn on DU...:)

[averagesammy]

26. I can't get behind Clark or Kerry

I see them spin out of one comment into another. Clark and Kerry both have been on both sides of the Iraqi war debate. They change depending on what group they are talking to. I can't vote for someone that can't make up their mind where they stand.

Brokaw reamed Clark the other night and Dean made a fool of himself and his supporters.
Every time Michael Moore speaks we lose people. He is silly and foolish. Moore is not helping us. I feel the same way about Al Franken too. The Clintons pulled us down and Bush is stomping us flat.

I may vote for Al Sharpton. At least he gets it and it seems no one else in the party does.

Al said "Mr. Clinton was doing well. The party lost. Gingrich killed us in '94. '96, under Clinton, we didn't regain the Congress...in '98. We didn't regain it in 2000, we lost it all in 2002 when we were demolished. We lost everything as a party. Bill Clinton won the party, and Bill Clinton may not have won it had it not been for Perot. That is my point. Centrism killed this party. People are saying, well, Sharpton and progressives killed the party. The party is dead. I come to help start the resurrection."

I have to agree with brother Al on this one.

[windansea]

28. heh heh

good luck on that

[TacticalPeek]

32. I'm sure Sharpton would welcome your support.

http://www.republicansforsharpton.com/index.htm

[Tom Rinaldo]

33. Please visit this thread and use the link

Here it is:

Clark's war stance as early as 11/12/02

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=166901

If you have broadband it links you to a TV 10 minute interview with Clark regarding Iraq well over a year ago. I prefer you watch it for yourself rather than read me talk about it. But if you don't have broadband, here is what I posted on that thread after watching the video.:


A very clear presentation of Clark's views well over a year ago, well before the conflict started.

Too much to copy down and type for a slow typer like me. Here's a highlight:

"Everybody who's been in uniform, and everybody who has heard a shot fired in anger says, Don't rush into this, do it as a last resort only."

Clark also warned that the U.S. going militarily into a Middle Eastern country without International legitimacy, and the support of some other Arab nations, would breed resentment against the U.S. and provide recruitment opportunities to Al Quada. He also stressed that without detailed planning in advance, an invasion would result in major combat would go quickly and well, but a host of complex problems would emerge in the aftermath.

It does anger me when so many people blindly insist on seizing on a poorly handled interview to prove that Clark was "pro-war" invasion his entire record says otherwise. Especially if they will not even look at evidence like this. Howard Dean never said the U.S. should never send armed forces into Iraq under any circumstances. Neither did Clark. Yet both men, and Dennis Kucinich, were clearly strong voices in opposition to Bush's policy. They ALL deserve credit for that.

[Auntie Bush]

37. Go ahead ...who cares

Since you are really a Bush person in wolf's clothes'

[snippy]

39. Very astute.

Like Bush himself, a great many of Bush supporters, especially those known as "freepers", lack honor, truthfulness, and integrity.

[averagesammy]

40. I'm not for Bush

I don't know who to vote for and you people aren't helping. Should I just vote blind. I have questions and you are not helping with any answers. What did I say that was wrong. You turn on your own because I said something wrong ? Maybe the republicans will be more open to answer questions. I have never voted for a republican in my life. Maybe its time. In the short time I have been here I have read mean and hateful things and seen some Dem's turn on others and say horrible things. It that what our party is about now ? I'll not getting that warn feeling here that I thought would be here.

[OKNancy]

31. From Esquire about this incident

Clark and Holbrooke went in the Humvee, the rest in the APC. In his book, the general describes what happened this way: "At the end of the first week we had a tragic accident on Mount Igman, near Sarajevo. were killed when the French armored personnel carrier in which they were riding broke through the shoulder of the road and tumbled several hundred meters down a steep hillside."

It is not until one reads Holbrooke's book, "To End a War", that one finds out that after the APC went off the road, Clark grabbed a rope, anchored it to a tree stump, and rappelled down the mountainside after it, despite the gunfire that the explosion of the APC set off, despite the warnings that the mountainside was heavily mined, despite the rain and the mud, and despite Holbrooke yelling that he couldn't go.

It is not until one brings the incident up to the general that one finds out that the burning APC had turned into a kiln, and that Clark stayed with it and aided in the extraction of the bodies; it is not until one meets Wesley Clark that one understands the degree to which he held Milosevic accountable.

-Tom Joad
Esquire

[Auntie Bush]

38. Bravo...I was hoping someone wold post that article