What happens if Dean loses and goes third party?

[INTELBYTES]

Forgive me if this thread has already been done, but I haven't seen it yet.
I was just wondering about the true Dean supporters on the DU, if they would follow him to a third party or would they stay true to the democratic party.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

1. the Democrats would just have to close up shop

Of course he won't, but then again if you sell out your base, what do you have left?

[windansea]

2. nothing much n/t

[Rowdyboy]

3. Never happen....

Dean is a Democrat, not an independent.

[INTELBYTES]

10. I believe that he is a true democrat and will stick to the party...

but I'm just wondering if he will feels like he got shafted by the party would he decide to take matter into his own hands. I'm not suggesting such, I'm just not completely sure that he wouldn't.

[polpilot]

30. Go to the DLC website. They don't want Howard Dean and he needs to

pack and go. I wish he'd do it soon. Third Party with Dean leading the charge looks like a bet. I've long lost respect for the leadership in this party and it's time to change tactics.

Dean '04

[ozone_man]

34. He is a loyal Democrat.

But times change, people change, the Democratic party is merging with the Republican party. I doubt that he would run as an Independent, but if he did, I would be right there to support him.

[Nicholas_J]

18. There are lots of things

Dean has said he would do or not do, both as Governor, and as candidate, and has changed his mind. Early on he stated that he would unilaterally invade Iraq if the U.N. did not enforce its own resolutions, then he became the only candidate to oppose the war in Iraq from the beginning. He stated that universal health insurance was his greatest priority at the beginning of his campaign, and now he will not consider universal health until the budget is balanced ( and in his last debate in Iowa stated that this would take 7 years, meaning he told Iowans he was going to get rid of even the piddling amount they got from the Bush tax cuts, and pretty much give them nothing in return).

It is my belief that Dean will turn on this, and if he does not get the nomination, he will run third party. This has been hinted by his statements that if he is not nominated his supporters are not transferable (since they seem to be so loyal to him however, I do not see why they would not abide by his wishes if he was sincere in supporting any other nominee, and apply that passion and anger against Bush, to asking them to vote for anyone else to get Bush out of office, which is why I doubt the sincerity of his claim)

[HFishbine]

4. Dean has said repeatedly

As recently as today in Claremont NH, that he will support the eventual nominee.

See for yourself: rtsp://video.c-span.org/project/c04/c04012204_dean.rm

[PVnRT]

5. He's not going third party

He's said it many times. Nice try.

[HuckleB]

6. This isn't an option in Dean's mind, so why the question?

I would vote for the Dem nominee, under your hypothetical situation.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. Since Dean said he'd support the Democratic Candidate

whoever it is, I think your point is moot. (Source: NPR today-heard Dean say it, and he was very sincere) I remind you that he also asked all candidates if they would support the nominee, and all of them, including Dean, raised their hands.

[candy331]

12. What will happen happen

if the now front runner Kerry loses will he go 3rd party? Why throw out horse hockey? Dean is a Democrat and will support the Democrat as he says. Whether he will do anything other than vote for them remains to be seen.

[AntiCoup2K4]

8. Yes, it has already been done.

And your question is illogical. Because it is Dean and his supporters who are true to the Democratic Party, and the corporatist Republicans in Democratic clothing known as the DLC who are betraying us to the likes of PNAC.

[patricia92243]

9. I'd vote for Dean. He is the only chance the Dems have of even possibly

winning. So, if they don't have Dean and are not going to win, I might as well vote my heart and go for Dean.

[Carni]

11. We'd be screwed

It would be 2000 all over again.

[maxanne]

38. yup

and we'd deserve it, for sabotaging the only original political movement to come along in decades.

[lancdem]

13. Dean is a Democrat, always has been, always will be

That scenario will never happen.

[Andromeda]

14. Somebody asked Dean that question

already. I can't remember exactly who did so I don't have a direct quote.

Dean said that he is a Democrat and that he would not run as a third party candidate. I expect him to be true to his word as he has been consistent on this.

[freetempe]

15. Won't happen

Dean has already pledged to support the Dem nominee, but that won't stop me from writing in his name on the ballot.

[Walt Starr]

16. I'd follow him without missing a beat

and would never look back.

Of course I realize Dean is 100% committed to the Democratic Party and would never do this.

It matters not to me. Come Novemeber 3, I'm voting for Dean whether he's on the ballot or not.

[adamrsilva]

17. What if he only ran in states that Bush was guaranteed to win?

Like some have suggested for Greens.

[regnaD kciN]

19. It won't happen, but...

...I think little attention has been paid to what may happen if, as seems to be happening right now, the Dean campaign goes into total meltdown in record time, and he's a non-factor by this time next week.

I suggest that the main lessons that will be "learned" by the "conventional wisdom," as personified by party officials and the mainstream media, will be the following:

-- Iraq doesn't matter (and, by extension, neither does opposition to pre-emptive war and the PNAC's agenda). The main candidate that spoke out against Bush's Iraq adventure will have been shown to have far less support than previously assumed, and most Democrats will have no problem supporting a candidate who gave Bush his "blank check" IWR.

-- Anger against Bush doesn't matter. The one candidate who was steadfast in denouncing the administration will have been lapped by a series of candidates who helped put into place not only the Iraq resolution, but also the PATRIOT Act, Ashcroft's nomination, etc., etc. The Democrats will have demonstrated that "Bush-hating" is a dead-end among them as well.

-- The Internet doesn't matter. Dean was touted as the first "cyber-candidate" who drew supporters from outside the standard Democratic profiles. Now, it will be said, those supporters have been proven to be a mirage. The notion of the Internet as an organizing tool and a sounding board (and, yes, that also means the opinions of those of us at DU) will be seen as inconsequential, extremist, a minority of a minority, a special interest group best ignored in the future.

:-(

[DjTj]

20. It would be the beginning of the end...

...of the Democratic party.

[Cuban_Liberal]

21. he won't

So it's a non-issue.

[davidinalameda]

22. he'll be crucified as this year's Nader

and promptly ignored

[INTELBYTES]

23. What happens to his "war chest" of money if he loses?

[rockymountaindem]

24. Don't do it!

If Dean were to run as a third party candidate this time, it would rule out his running as a Democrat at a more favorable time in the future. Why would he commit political suicide like that?

Secondly, I hope you people who say you will still vote for Dean even if he is not the nominee don't live in states which will be in play. A vote for anyone besides the nominee is a vote for Bush.

[Monte Carlo]

25. Dean would be insane to break from the Democratic Party...

... and run as a 3rd candidate in the general election. Splitting the vote in THIS election would be near-certain disaster. If Dean is even half-way sincere about his intentions to remove Bush, he would not willingly damage the Democrats' chances in November. Besides, it would reflect on him very badly as a candidate in such a race. It wouldn't be a plus for the ousting-Bush plan.

[shance]

28. I think its the Democratic party that is suffering from temporary insanity

I dont think it would be that insane, especially after seeing the way in which he is being treated by the other "Democrats", which to me is insane, especially in considering the overall impact on the party.

I believe he is a real Democrat. He is the one that motivates and inspires me.

[Melinda]

26. Dr. Dean answered you in tonight's debate; He is a "D" - no 3rd party

He will fully support the Democratic nominee, end of story.

[mitchum]

27. He won't because he is smarter and has more honor than some...

of the faithful

[styersc]

29. Then it will be obvious that all of his detractors were right.

He pledged to support the candidate. If he lied then it was all about his ego and his own personal glory. If this happens I hope he has the decency to return all of the money- or I guess we could sue for fraud.

[John_H]

31. Dean may be unelectable, but he's not stupid.

First off, unlike some of his DU supporters apparently, I'm 100 percent sure Dr. Dean will support the nominee.

Second, he's way too smart to piss away his very bright future in the party.

[bitchkitty]

32. He won't run as an independent,

so the question makes no sense. If he did run as an indie, and I thought he could get enough votes to beat Bush, damned straight I'd vote for him. Unless some Democrats start acting like Democrats, I see no reason to be part of a party that has no interest in my welfare or in my point of view.

[jonnyblitz]

33. screw that.

I am voting for the Democrat. very simple. In the meantime I am gonna bring up things I don't like about the candidates but I will still vote for any one of them in the end. Call me a sell-out I don't care.

[RoeBear]

35. What if millions of meteors...

...struck the earth only killing Democrats?

In other words it ain't gonna happen.

[Zinnola]

36. no, no, no

Dean stated tonight in the debates and in other instances that he will support the nominee. He did stated that he could not guarantee that his supporters are easily transferrable. A very honest answer. As a Dean supporter, I am with him all the way. If he does not get the nomination, I will support the nominee with an absentee vote.

[INTELBYTES]

37. To those that say it's a stupid question....

Personally I don't think Dean would split from the party either. But it's not far fetched either. Dean knew he had the support. He should be in the lead right now. If it were not for the DLC, the media and the other candidates ganging up on him, he would probably still be ahead of the game. I can sense he has plenty of well placed bitterness about how he was treated. I think that alone would be the reason behind a split from the party. As for too much to lose? What does he have to lose? He's a governor, not a senator or congressman. So he doesn't have that much to lose, but the white house to gain if he did split. It's a hypothetical question, so don't get so defensive about someone asking it.

[Demo Gog]

39. I don't like Dean,

but I don't think he would do that. He's a Democrat, right? So that automatically entitles him to something called "honor" that Republicans have only heard about!

[WI_DEM]

40. I don't know if you saw the debate tonight, but

Dean again said he will strongly support whoever the Democratic nominee is. End of issue.

[arewethereyet]

41. Bush wins in a particularly large landslide

look, its going to be tight and thats IF we nominate a winner.

I'm sure people would go vote for him figuring that the party had screwed them or some such foolishness so he becomes Perot plus Nader rolled into one and takes only from the Dem totals.

These threads are coming in distrbing frequency.

[Kurovski]

42. I would be disappointed in Dean if he did that

and I would vote for the Democratic candidate.

[megaplayboy]

43. If Dean is the next to last man standing, then...

he will of course support the nominee, but if a DLC backed candidate goes down in flames, I think Dean will lead a purge of the From/McAuliffe leadership faction, and he will be a stronger candidate in 2008. Hillary will regret not running this year in either case.

[Forkboy]

44. What third party wants him?

[Eloriel]

45. Your far bigger worry should be

(or perhaps the DLC/DNC's):

What if he loses and DOESN'T.

[fujiyama]

46. He won't do it...

He's become the anti establishment, establishment candidate...

I know that sounds confusing, but the fact is that Dean may have made a few enemies, primarilly Terry McCaullife and the DLC insiders, but he's made a few powerful friends as well, namely Al Gore, Bill Bradley, and Tom Harkin...

Were he to run independent, he would lose the respect of most of these people, as well as the support and respect of the entire democratic party.

Dean may not be my first choice, but I know he has better judgment than that. Were to run independent though, he would definetely garner a greater support than Nader's paltry 2% or so. My guess is he would end up getting say 10-15% of the electorate, and most likely Vermont and maybe one or two other states.

But that's not going to happen, because Dean is democrat and whether or not he gets the nomination I think he's one of the party's stars. Ultimately, the party's insiders, whether they like him or not, will be forced to consult him with regards to energizing the base and raising a ton of cash, especially in post McCain Fiengold elections (after all, one lesson that Dean teaches is that dems can still raise a lot of money -- maybe not as much as Bush, which was never going to happen -- but maybe enough to get the attention needed to get the message out).

It's inevitable. While, I don't think Dean is the right messenger for the job, his message is pretty much on target.

[Th1onein]

47. I hope to God he doesn't do something that stupid

If he does, and it splits the vote, like in 2000, we are in deep trouble in this country. I think that all Dems need to get together this time, and vote Bush out of office. This country is doomed, if we don't.

[Loren645]

48. CSPAN aired a speech/Q&A where the poor sick Dr (could hardly talk

I felt bad for him) said clearly/definitively that he'd
support/work for the Dem nominee if it isn't him.
I much appreciate that.

(Afterward someone in the crowd told him he should see
a Dr for his cold and he said he'd look in the mirror. :))

[DannyRed]

49. I have been

getting really tired of that question.

He will not run third party.

Here is what I think Dean should do if he does not get the nomination....

Take that huge pile of money that his campaign is sitting on, and form a 527.

Use the money via that 527 to create a massive, well-funded, well run Think Tank, advocacy group or whatever, run ads, hire out to and support the eventual nominee, and leverage himself into the DNC chairmanship.

That's IF he does not get the nomination.

Which he will.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

50. Huh? ... which 3rd party?

Dean is pretty much a regular corporatist Democrat. Just that the has a unique campaign. Why would he leave the party that he does not differ from?

TWL

[GalleryGod]

51. He'll NEVER Eat Lunch in this Town Again !!

The Back-to-Brattleboro-Tour:crazy:

Political Suicide-you do Dean a disservice to annoint Him as a 3rd force.


GG:smoke:

[hlthe2b]

52. I don't think Dean would do that....

Nor the other candidates. Too much at stake....

[CTLawGuy]

53. If Kerry wins the nomination

I will change my registration to independent. I cannot stand him. he was the most negative of all the candidates yet won in IA, where they "don't like negative campaigning". WTF?

[Ficus]

57. negative

Judging by ads I saw and lit I got the most negative was, by far:

1. Gephardt
2. Dean
3. Kerry
4. Kucinich
5. Edwards

Most of Dean's hits came from the G man, the finest congressman that Anheiser-Busch ever owned.

[INTELBYTES]

54. kick

:kick:

[LuminousX]

55. He won't

He is loyal to the party and he knows he wouldn't be able to win.

[mrgorth]

56. He won't run 3rd party

but if he did I'd vote for him. F the DLC and F Fromm.