Gov Mark Warner of Virginia just signed a bill to deny benefits to

[Leilani]

illegal aliens, according to Lou Dobbs.

The bill would not apply to education or emergency medical care, however would cover all other state benefits.

Virginia becomes the second state to pass this type of legislation, joining Arizona.

The vote in the Va legislature was unanimous in 1 House, & overwhelming in the other house. (Not sure about Senate vs House)

Any opinions? And how will this play in a potential run for Prez?

[aquart]

1. Aliens have relatives.

[Leilani]

2. Could you please clarify?

[Still_Loves_John]

6. I'm pretty sure that he means

Illegal aliens have legal relatives, whose votes are strongly influenced by decisions like this.

[Leilani]

9. Thanks, that's what I thought he meant

but I wasn't sure.

[magnolia]

62. This may influence their vote...

...but not how you think. I'm a "legal" alien. My parents and many relatives came from Europe when I was a child, and became citizens through proper channels. Why would we want or support other relatives in coming over illegally??? It doesn't even make sense. What does it say about our hard work and doing things right, when others can just walk across the border and they're all set

I think as a wealthy country we have a responsibility to help people all over the world, but there are better ways of doing it. Since a lot of these people are willing to do work that most born Americans don't want to...then why not relax or change the laws. I wouldn't mind at all using my tax dollars to help poor countries have a better standard of living. Mexico, for example, is a beautiful place. Why not help them so that people can stay in the country and with the people they love.

What's the point of having laws if you are going to ignore them? If they don't work...change them.

BTW...Mark Warner is my governor. He is a very compassionate, highly intelligent person.

[Cobalt Violet]

3. I'm with Mark Warner on this one.

[KittyWampus]

4. I Kinda Agree. There SHOULD Be A System In Place So Migrant Labor

isn't considered "illegal" and so that they are registered.

[Radical Activist]

8. How does denying benefits to illegal aliens

lend support to legal migrant labor? This only feeds into anti-immigrant prejudices.

[KittyWampus]

76. The Point Is There Shouldn't BE "Illegal" Aliens. A System Should Be In

place that allows people from C & S America to work here registered.

And should such a system be put in place, it would be entirely reasonable to refuse benefits to those who don't comply.

[Leilani]

5. I think this will be an important issue in 2006 & 2008

& wondering how it will play politically.

Hillary Clinton has come out as opposed to illegal immigration.

[Radical Activist]

7. And this asshole wants to run for President?

No freaking way. A human being is still a human being even if they weren't born in America.

This idea that human life means less if it isn't American is what allows the Republicans to not care about the over 100,000 Iraqi dead. We need someone who will reject the most despicable conservative ideologies, not adopt them.

[babylonsister]

11. RA, your point is noted, but I need to share a quick story.

My brother is a huge repug and is totally against letting anyone over the borders who is not American, never mind migrant workers. I think their (his) mindset is that terrorists will infiltrate this way and he's astounded the shrub would even consider granting access to anyone other than Americans. The terror alerts ad nauseum apparently worked with a big part of the country.

Edited to add: doesn't quite explain Hillary's objections.

[Renew Deal]

35. It's not about treating people more humanely.

Illegals should get their three hot and a cot before they get shipped back to wherever they came from. They are not here legally. They should not be benefiting from our tax money for breaking the law.

[Hippo_Tron]

38. What about those who are trafficked in

And what about their children who don't have a choice.

[Renew Deal]

42. If they are breaking the law, they need to go.

If that means the kids are not citizens and can't stay here with someone legal, they have to go too. Illegal immigration is unacceptable IMHO.

[Hippo_Tron]

49. I don't have a problem with sending them back

But what we are doing is letting them stay and treating them like complete shit. BTW sending them back is kind of pointless until we secure our borders because they can just come back.

[Renew Deal]

52. I agree.

Immigration is a mess in this country. It meeds a major overhaul. I don't understand why it's not a bigger issue.

[montana500]

10. GOOD

use our benefits for our citizens, not illegal aliens. Kudos to Warner.

[Lindacooks]

18. "Our citizens"??????

You mean the 40 MILLION Americans who don't have health insurance? The benefits are only available to those who can afford to pay. This isn't 'giving' anybody else more benefits.

And cutting benefits for illegal aliens except for emergency medical care means we'll spend much more overall, since they won't get treatment or help until a situation is desperate.

[nickshepDEM]

19. Im with ya'. Warner is at the top of my list for 2008.

If he can make it through the Democratic primary he will be a force in the general election.

[montana500]

28. some Americans with college experience dont qualify

but illegal aliens who dont speak English with no college usually do.

That;s backwards.

[knight_of_the_star]

47. Yeah it is

Especially considering that illegals aren't even here legally. In any other country they would be thrown in the slammer and deported.

[Mass]

48. This proves how little you know of other countries...

[kerry-is-my-prez]

12. It may cost him in Florida and New Mexico......

a lot of hispanics there....

[Pithy Cherub]

14. And the wonderful state of California.

Wonder what my favorite Senator thinks of this - America's Senator, Ms. Boxer.

[DemocracyInaction]

13. I think there is another side that needs to be looked at

I know that corporate America adores these illegal aliens and wants scads more. I can see states doing everything they can to pull the plug UNLESS these people are guaranteed decent wages and benefits. We are not doing them a favor by letting them be used like this and we are not doing our citizens any favor whatsoever but just flushing everyone towards the bottom. It's time to make the "masters" pay decently for the help. Otherwise, we literally, as years go by cannot afford them because our workers will be making the wages of the countries they just left!!!!!!!!

[Leilani]

15. I think a big part of this is financial stress on the states

The businesses get their cheap labor, but taxpayers rather than businesses are forced to pay the cost.

And the states are not getting help from the Feds, but it is a Federal issue.

[Mist]

22. The states will have to tighten their belts in the next few years

As I understand it, virtually all states are in the red now. Something's got to give.

[JI7]

16. some of the strongest supporters of this are legal immigrants

i was kind of surprised at first but their reasons did kind of make sense. they view themselves as people who followed the law, put up with the long waits, and everything else needed to come here legally. and they want to know why those here illegally should get the same benefits. they do tend to make exceptions for things like education(especially where young kids are concerned as they are viewed as innocent) and emergency medical care which is the case with the bill Warner signed based on the original post.

this is why many were turned off by prop 187 in California some years ago. it denied education and medical care. but why they tend to support things like denying drivers licenses, or making learning English a requirement.

[Leilani]

17. I agree.

Biggest opponent of illegals is legal immigrants.

I've also been surprised to see polls where Hispanic Americans are opposed to illegal immigration.

[Mass]

46. It is not surprising

When you are an immigrant and that you have done everything legally, you dont like that people wonder whether you are legal or not, and some people think automatically that an Hispanic is an immigrant alien.

The only problem is that these measures have been proven useless in the past because they do not attack the root of the problem.

[nickshepDEM]

20. Great...

Like montana500 said, start providing benefits to our citizens not illegal aliens. Gov. Warner is gradually climbing to the top of my 2008 list.

[nickshepDEM]

88. This is a winning issue for Democrats if we use it to our advantage.

Stop worrying about losing Hispanic voters. Legal immigrants are some of the biggest supporters of this type of legislation.

WARNER, WARNER, WARNER, WARNER! 2008, 2008, 2008, 2008!

[napi21]

21. I agree with the Gov. He talked about the expense to the State of

Va for health care has increased 70% in the last 5 years, and the residents of Va. are very upset, as well they should be!

I have to believe the immegrants who took the time to become legal would be as, or more upset by the illegals as everyone else is.

I must tell you, when I worked for a company in Tx, we had a lot of legal Mexican immegrant workers. One was a very nice young firl who worked for us for about 5 years, and had 2 small children during that time. She announced one day that she was moving back to Mexico. We had a party for her, and wished her good luck. About a year later, she contacted us again to say that she wanted to come back to the States, and asked if we had a job for her. We asked her why she wanted to return to the US, and she said she decided she wanted another baby, and needed the US to pay for it!

I've never forgotten that story. I felt it was an abuse of the generosity of the US then, and still do!

[Dark]

23. For once, I'm on the repub side.

Don't reward illegal aliens for BREAKING our laws.

[Gin]

24. I appluad this one....I am for "legal "immigration...

We should not reward the illegal aliens who are breaking the law and robbing us blind.

You go Mark!

[Cobalt Violet]

29. It's not just a repub side. Many, many, many voiceless working class dems.

also feel this way. After all we are very often the ones who are left to compete for the same jobs and same low income housing. With housing; there is not enough to go around and we are force to pay over 50% of our income for housing. Higher earning dems are oblivious to what this feels like.

[Renew Deal]

36. Curbing illiegal immigration is not a repub issue.

The Dems support it too. Remember, Bush supports worker programs for illegals. It's bad policy.

[MrSlayer]

25. I support the action.

Good for Virginia.

[johnnyrocket]

26. uuuh, yeah! No pay taxes, no legal residence...no perks!!!

Common sense!

[Bridget Burke]

65. Most of them pay taxes....

At least, in states with a Sales Tax. Like Texas--no state income tax.

And though most of them don't own property--landlords DO pass on property tax costs to their tenants. Otherwise, all renters would be ineligible for state benefits, as well.

[autorank]

27. Education & emergency benefits, not a bad deal for illegals.

What do you want, endless benefits to subsidies manufacturing and construction's use of cheap labor (with no benefits) or a reasonable approach to state expenditures. This is smart (education) and compassionate (emergency care). Other than that, no state like Virginia with a large population of illegals (yes, Virginia) can afford this and maintain other benefits. If this is what he signed, you can be SURE that the first Republican legislature in modern Virginia history had much worse in mind.

Keep in mind, under Warner, Virginia is rated THE BEST GOVERNED STATE IN THE UNITED STATES. That's one of us, a Democrat, doing that.

Warner :yourock:

[spooky3]

30. There are many LEGAL immigrants in VA and many of them

feel resentful that they did all the work and endured hardships in order to come in legally, yet others who did not are given benefits.

Warner may have been sensitive to these issues in addition to the other points raised on this thread.

[IntravenousDemilo]

31. Well, there goes the expatriate Martian vote n/m

[OneTwentyoNine]

32. Works for me,glad he did it.....n/t

[Clarkie1]

33. That's a good bill. n/t

[Renew Deal]

34. Based only on your comments. Good

Illegals are illegal. They should not get licenses and taxpayer money. Just a flight back to wherever they came from.

[Mass]

39. And we can wait for the next flight

that will be subsidized by good American citizens who dont want to pay their workforce enough, I guess. Start by fighting the roots of illegal immigration, that will be more efficient.

[Renew Deal]

40. So we should keep the illegals as cheap labor?

[Mass]

45. No,

but we should sue whoever hire them so that they dont anymore. May be there would be less illegal immigrants if there was no companies that hire them. (Here in Boston, they arrested several people working in the airport - Do you really think that the company that hired them did not know they were illegal).

[Renew Deal]

51. I agree with you.

That's a big part of it. I do worry about what it means if these people go underground, but this is a good place to start.

[Mass]

54. I do too But this type of law does not help to solve the problem.

For me, this law is demagogery, nothing more.

[Mass]

37. Why do we call him a Democrat?

Same thing goes for some people on this board from the remarks I have read.

Sure, illegal workers should not be here, but who can reproach them to try to earn a living. Some of our GOOD Citizens (I loved this term, seems so xenophobic to me) (corporations or otherwise) who hire them at low price get large benefits of that though. But the only solution imagined by M, Warner to curb on illegal immigration is to strike the poor and helpless people

Historic studies throughout the world have proven that these measures, besides being heartless, are useless. Measures that would strike strongly people who hire illegal immigrants are a lot more efficient to fight against illegal immigration. But this would probably be hurtful for some of the people who finance Warner's campaign.

[QC]

70. So you're in charge of determining who's a Democrat now?

I must have missed that directive from the Central Committee.

[Mass]

84. Obviously, I dont even understand what a Democrat is

I fought fighting for the weakest was part of that. Apparently, I was wrong.

Now, if this type of measures is representative of the Party, I guess I should be an independant.

[Hippo_Tron]

41. I'd rather that we have REAL immigration reform

This shouldn't be an issue because we should be securing our borders so that illegal immigrants can't get in, in the first place.

[Renew Deal]

44. The feds aren't willing to do anything about it.

They can go so much farther to control and discourage illegal immigration, but they chose to ignore it and even in Bush's case, condone it. The states are forced to act.

[Clarkie1]

50. I agree.

There needs to be a guest worker program that works and is fair and respectful to all concerned. The situation we have now with illegal immigration is completely dysfunctional.

While I wish Warner's bill wasn't needed, it seems that it is only through this kind of political pressure that immigration reform will be dealt with in any meaningful way, unfortunately.

[Mass]

53. How much does illegal immigration (other than education and emergency

care) cost to the state of Virginia (as a % of the budget)?

How much does the state not get because of fiscal evasion by companies that hire those people?

I dont know the numbers, but I am sure that this will not solve the problem at all, except by increasing costs for hospitals.

[Mass]

43. What other benefit does an illegal immigrant get?

This is typically a demagogic bill if there are any.

It does nothing to solve the problem, but looks good on his resume for presidential candidate.

[w4rma]

68. drivers license. (nt)

[Mass]

69. You want illegals to drive without licenses and insurance??

This is all this would solve..

I am all against illegal immigration, but may be we can try to solve the problem rather than pander.

[spooky3]

74. unemployment compensation, worker compensation, Medicaid

welfare, kids' schooling, etc.

[ZootSuitGringo]

55. Does Virginia have an illegal immigration problem,

or is Warner playing politics?

I say, Big whoop-di-doo!

Since there is corporate welfare, why not illegal immigrant welfare?

Maybe when Warner goes after Corporate welfare issues of businesses in his state, I'll jump for joy.

Is he being Politically courageous or pandering? It's easy to propose a bill on Immigration while governor of Virginia. Why Am I not impressed?

[Leilani]

57. I don't know if he proposed it

or the Legislature proposed it & he signed the bill.

[spooky3]

73. Uh, yes. There are many, many recent immigrants here

particularly in the DC area but also elsewhere, drawn by the international nature of the city, by huge demand for service and construction employees, by the fact that many immigrants already have family members here. Some are legal; some are not.

Schools are bursting at the seams to accommodate population growth, partly driven by the immigration. Real estate taxes are skyrocketing and people are angry about it.

You might want to get more informed about the facts before drawing conclusions about Warner's motivations.

[Telly Savalas]

56. Can someone claify?

What's the standard operating procedure when a person is found to be an illegal alien? Aren't they deported? If this is the case then why is it necessary to have a law cutting off benefits? Are the checks being forwarded to Mexico or something?

[Leilani]

58. I think it varies a lot from state to state

But most times, people, when caught, are given a summons to appear in court...they have to have a hearing before being deported.

Unless accused of a crime, most places don't take illegals into custody.

[Telly Savalas]

60. So then the point is...

we'll let the illegals stay and remain as chear labour, but won't grant them the same benefits other residents get? Sounds great. Warner '08!!!!

[Mass]

63. Not even.

Given that the two services illegals use mostly are the two that are still accessible (education and emergency care).

This is pure pandering and solve no problem:

- will not stop illegal immigration that is driven by people hiring illegal workers.
- will not help the state budget as the two most important spendings remain.
- will do absolutely nothing concerning security issues linked to illegal immigration (does not even pretend to).

[spooky3]

80. Why don't you try reading about the bill before bashing a Dem?

Here's a start:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=edit&forum=132&topic_id=1693644&mesg_id=1694853

[Mass]

82. Because the bill solves nothing.

It creates scapegoats and will make access difficult for legal aliens and foreign-born citizens as well as they will have to document they are legal to have access to the services.

I read the bill where you posted it and it did not change my mind. I agree fully with the opponents of the bill.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1693644&mesg_id=1694853

It does not mean that illegal immigration should not be fought, just that the bill will do nothing for that.

[Mass]

59. Pandering?

[Telly Savalas]

61. That's what it sounded like and is why I asked.

[lynne]

64. GOOD FOR THE GOV !

I support this 100%. As a Virginian who has recently discovered that two homes in my neighborhood are housing members of the violent gang MS-13 - most of whom are illegal aliens - I'm all for this.

[w4rma]

66. Good. They're illegal. And the bill appears to leave the two services that

they *should* get available to them.

[Mass]

67. So it is useless.

Solves no problems and just makes you feel good.

[Mass]

71. An interesting perspective on immigration in the Boston Globe

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2005/03/30/wal_marts_cut_rate_labor/

GLOBE EDITORIAL
Wal-Mart's cut-rate labor

March 30, 2005

THE JANITORS were cleaning up in some 60 Wal-Mart stores in 21 states -- including Massachusetts and New Hampshire -- on Oct. 23, 2003, when federal immigration agents suddenly appeared. It was a series of raids. Agents arrested 245 illegal immigrants who had been hired to clean the stores by cleaning companies contracting with Wal-Mart. Lawyers representing the workers say their clients were locked inside stores and denied overtime pay. After the raids, Wal-Mart contacted federal authorities and promised to cooperate with the investigation.



It's a law enforcement victory. But it shows the flaws in national immigration policies. Market forces fuel the problem: Companies want workers, and undocumented immigrants want wages. Many companies take the risk -- hiring illegal workers, hoping they won't get caught, and leaving workers with little protection against abuse.


Another strategy is to penalize employers who hire illegal immigrants. But while the $11 million settlement with Wal-Mart is record-setting, it isn't a lot for a company that had $285.2 billion in sales for the year ending Jan. 31, 2005. In the future, sanctions should be tougher so fines don't seem like an acceptable cost of doing business.

Ultimately, it's immigrant families trying to make ends meet who suffer the most from weak immigration policies. Ali Noorani, head of the Massachusetts Immigrant and Refugee Advocacy Coalition, points to the workers who deal with unscrupulous employers and then get deported.

[raccoon]

79. Record-setting fine--Huh?

"the $11 million settlement with Wal-Mart is record-setting"

A $11 million fine to WalMart would be like a $10 fine to the average American working person.

[Mass]

83. That was their point

"it isn't a lot for a company that had $285.2 billion in sales for the year ending Jan. 31, 2005"

[Zynx]

72. Good. Why should our tax dollars go to them?

We have enough problems fixing our domestic poverty as it is and we have seen how the illegal problems are breaking California's back financially.

[spooky3]

75. here's a link with details

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A11104-2005Mar29.html

[Mass]

78. This certainly does not change my feeling that this is pandering.

This bill does not solve anything. It just makes illegal immigrants (and legal ones at the same time) scapegoats for real problems that exist in the state.

[paineinthearse]

77. I support this decision in two words

illegal aliens...with emphesis on the first.

There are processes to apply for political asylum and processes to apply for citizenship.

Illegal aliens deserve no benefits, other than emergency and humanitarian.

[Mass]

81. But the bill solves nothing!

Ask Romney. Is MassHealth in better shape since he terminated benefits to LEGAL aliens? I dont think so.

If they want to attack the real problems, they are welcome. Read the editorial in the Globe on the subject. For once, they are right!!

And for those who think that the process to get a visa is easy, I can tell first-hand it is not if you are honest with the immigration, except if you can help the corporate world, in which case it becomes more than easy.

Make immigration laws simpler (not easier, just simpler so that consulate agents are not swamped by cases that they say are not problematic but that still takes months to process while illegal aliens arrested by police get a walk), condemn people who hire illegal workers severely so that they dont try again, insure a better control at the border, and may be we can start to curb illegal immigration. But if people are here to enrich companies by being paid less, give them a break if you are not willing to attack the sources of the problem.

[Mr.Green93]

85. Can't this be stopped

in the World Court or U.N.?

[Zynx]

86. On what grounds?

Are we to become a provider to every illegal immigrant that wants to come here?

[Mr.Green93]

87. Yes

A down payment on reparations to the World.

[nickshepDEM]

89. This is a winning issue for Democrats if we use it to our advantage.

Stop worrying about losing Hispanic voters. Legal immigrants are some of the biggest supporters of this type of legislation.

WARNER, WARNER, WARNER, WARNER! 2008, 2008, 2008, 2008!