Bush's SocialSec plan is a disaster. Why do you think that's happening?

[jpgray]

Why this and not so many other similar nutso, right-wing schemes he's managed to push through successfully during his presidency?

[blm]

1. Because the media hasn't figured out a way to make the Dems out to be

the irresponsible bad guys on this issue. None of their earlier attempts rang true. Too many people understand how Social Security works, so their usual tactics won't work.

[Jacobin]

2. He still hasn't unveiled an actual plan with numbers

and regulations.

Everyone is just guessing at what it will do from the vague parameters put out by the junta.

I think everyone has a grandmother, mother, granfather, aunt, loved one, friend, etc. that without SS would be on the street, or close to it.

Hard to argue over the most successful program ever. Also, the cost goes UP with Smirk's half announced plan and not down.

[flpoljunkie]

13. Perhaps because even the uninformed understand the security of SS.

They also get it that the stock market bubble burst in 1999, and that an increasing number of corporate pension funds are in trouble and are trying to ditch their financial responsibilities to their workers.

Dubya and his rubber stamp GOP Congress runs around saying that "we have made promises that we can't keep."

No, you have made promises that you don't intend to keep. You are spending the Social Security surplus right now to pay for tax cuts for the rich. It was great to hear Barack Obama actually say this today while speaking in front of the National Press Club!

Dubya and his GOP minions have created a false crisis. Any projected shortfalls in the Social Security can be fixed by not making tax cuts for the rich permanent and passing a realisitic estate tax.

Too many are being taken for a ride by those whose real agenda is to make the rich, richer, while they distract folks, and fairly successfully, I might add, with "gay marriage" and "partial birth abortion" diatribes.

[BillZBubb]

3. Because Bush's screwball scheme would effect their pockets.

On all the other issues, Bush is either viewed as neutral (like an unpaid for war, red ink doesn't matter) or positive (tax cuts for the wealthy with a few peanuts for the rest).

Social Security to most is viewed as security. Bush's scheme totally removes the fundamental reason people like the system--the security.

[Vickers]

4. Because finally, FINALLY he attempts to dick with something that affects

EVERY-FUCKING-BODY.

Look, even his supporters know he is an idiot, especially when it comes to math and cipherin' and such :P, so while they MIGHT go along with his flag-waving and soldier-killing bullshit (as long as it ain't THEIR son), when it comes to taking REAL money away from folks, well, they get antsy.

[NightOwwl]

11. But he knows technical stuff like "actuarial arcana!" (gag alert ahead)

"He has become a master of actuarial arcana, such as the concept of a "bend point" — a feature of the complex formula for calculating benefits."

This quote was taken from the LA Times. I warned you. :puke:

[flamingyouth]

5. I don't know one person who thinks it's a good idea

Even the biggest RW nutjobs who shop in my store have come in denouncing it (most of these same people are also in the 62-and-older crowd).

Unlike Sec. 8 housing and other federal plans he's gutted, Social Security affects nearly everyone who has elderly relatives or plans on living into one's 60s and older.

[jpgray]

12. Right--I think you and Vickers are on the right track (nt)

[Field Of Dreams]

6. I think a lot of people...

dems and repubs alike are skittish about the notion of private accounts and the fact they would be dependent upon the stock market which is :hurts: for the immediate future. Even a sheep will bleet if you start poking at it's general sense of security! Bush has stumbled blindly into a pocketbook issue the likes of which he has never seen.

[underpants]

7. They got away from their playbook

The playbook goes like this

1-Don't let anyone know what you are actually proposing
2-Force Congress to vote before anyone finds out what they are voting on--SHUT UP AND VOTE!!! (remember the little thing they slipped in the budget to let the Repub committee heads get personal IRS info and release it to the public? That's just one example)

[jpgray]

10. I think this was engineered as a legacy item

An attempt to replace and supplant Social Security, identified with Democrats, with a Republican system that would at the same time richly reward the elite. Otherwise I don't doubt they would have passed it exactly as you described. It had the supposed perfect pandering system in place--young folks who have no concept of financial security would be allowed to gamble with their contribution, and oldsters wouldn't lose their checks. Everyone's selfish concerns were addressed--I don't think Bush & co counted on less than selfish concerns having any impact at all, and it seems they have.

[NightOwwl]

18. Jeebus! How many legacies does this guy want?

He's already left a legacy of death and corruption in Iraq, jingoism in America, a deficit that our children will be paying off for years...the list could go on and on.

And he wants to add the destruction of Social Security to his legacy? Does this guy think he's a dictator or something? Oh that's right...never mind.

[EVDebs]

8. Bush Family Motto = "Other People's Money" . Enough said. eom

[NightOwwl]

9. Latest Gallup poll shows...

50% believe Bush deliberately lied about WMDs in Iraq. Deliberately, on-purpose, out-and-out lied to them.

Once a liar, always a liar. People are waking up...probably wouldn't trust this guy to walk their dog, let alone "reform" Social Security.

[Disturbed]

17. The Bush Junta misoverestimated the.

stupidity of most Amerikans on this one.

The mention of the Stock Market got a red alert buzzer in even the most ignorant &/or stupid Amerikans.

[napi21]

14. Believe it or not, I think he could have succeeded in the 90's when

the stock market was gaining 200+ points a day!!!! People remember that, and they look now and almost all you see is RED! Everybody understands something about SS. Some more than others, but it's familiar to them, unlike a bankruptcy case, or extate tax that they know will NEVER affect them. Changes to SS affects every generation in every family, and when you know your grandparents got their checks each month, your parents are now getting them, a relative is on disability, it doesn't look good to see that RED DOWN ARROW almost every day!

I took the time to listen to each of the plans proposed to the finance committee today until around noon when cspan switched to something else. There were 5 presentations. One was nothing buy pie in the sky that realistically couldn't work, one was flat out screw the little guy, one was rational but very basic, and the last one really wasn't a plan as much as a critique on the others.

Me thinks it's going to be a very long battle!!!!

[ComerPerro]

15. They finally reached too far

[Pithy Cherub]

16. Actually it was fundamental hubris and a past (dubious) record

of being able to state something and have it adopted by all of the nodes in the network. The mantra of protection of the US was supported en masse by the system. The 9/11 tragedy leant credibility to the aims. The media was complicit. The Democrats compromised. The political system reacted to fear and legislation was born and privacy curtailed just to name a few. With all that "success" in the bush company's worldview there were no obstacles to implementing the agenda. It was a classic change management dynamic that permeates the failures in corporate Amercia. 1600 is run like a corporation.

Resistance has shown to be a force that can not be overcome with sheer will. Intellectually making a case for the change to social security was not even deemed necessary. Just accept what we say...hubris run amok!

[bklyncowgirl]

19. The powers that be got what they wanted from Shrub. Tinfoil alert.

Now they're letting him hang out too dry.

Big business wanted tort reform and bankruptcy protection. They'd like privatized Social Security but my guess is that Bush's deficits are making them nervous, Iraq is a mess and the last thing they need is a bunch of holy rollers getting upity. They can wait for Social Security reform for another administration. Maybe a conservative Democrat who could make it palatable rather like Clinton did with NAFTA.

Big business thrives on stability and with this idiot sounding like he wants to invade Iran, putting the hobbles on him is necessary. We're hearing more negative stuff about Dear Leader because at least the financial and entertainment sectors of the business community have decided he's toast.