Any other Kerry supporters disappointed with his Crossfire appearance?

[kentuck]

Kerry should be wise enough to know how the Repubs work. They were going to keep asking the Democratic candidates about Bush's AWOL issue until they could find one to discredit it or to minimize it. John Kerry did them that favor. He didn't have to answer it the way he did. They are going to stick his "medals over the fence" in a place where the sun don't shine and he will deserve just what he gets. When you are in a battle with Bush and the Repubs for the survival of this country, you do not let them escape with such a wimpy response as Kerry gave on Crossfire. Now, in their usual defense, they will use Kerry as the authority in the opposition that says it is not important. It was important as an issue, if nothing else. He had the media talking about this issue and John Kerry let them off the hook, in my opinion. And I am a Kerry supporter....at least, I have been. I may have to reconsider. It's important, damn it!

[AlinPA]

1. Please, what did he say about Bush being AWOL?

I missed it.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

40. probably another coverup for Bush by Kerry

Just like Kerry's famed "investigation" - even after they documented government collaboration with drug dealers - Kerry's report "concluded" they had no knowledge or involvement.

Just another case of Kerry covering for his frat-brother Bush.

[Skwmom]

2. It really helped reinforce the believe that

Democrats have no backbone.

[Toot]

3. This is why I support Dean. No matter what is said about him, you can't

say he's spineless.

[TheDonkey]

4. What happened to the Democrats need to focus on the issues push?

Bush is AWOL but if Kerry couldn't come up with a clear cut case for it (I can't) then why bother fumblibng over it.

He needs to focus on the facts and the issues. Education, Healtcare, Energy, etc, let the republicons try in vain to ask irrevelant questoins. Even if the people knew he was AWOL they wouldn't care... but if they had healthcare that was fair...

[HuckleB]

34. Why say "it was over the top" if you don't know that it is?

It might not be over the top. There's plenty of evidence to make one think that it's a legitimate claim.

As for issues, the Repubs want to make character an issue again. This is a huge matter in regard to that issue.

[blm]

5. But that's not the reality of the ground game.

Max Cleland is on the campaign trail with other vets and they bring it up all the time.

Let this brew. This is a GOOD thing and you don't want the candidate attacking Bush on this just yet.

[adadem]

24. You are absolutely correct

Now is not the time to be addressing it. It must be addressed by the nominee directly to bush.

[Sly Kal]

31. Disagree

The time to address the issue is when you are asked about it. As usual Kerry hems and haws and plays it safe.

[beaconess]

42. We have to fight smart

And it's much smarter to let this thing brew, let other people talk about it and start to stir it up. If we're the ones driving it, it can easily be written off as partisan attack politics. But if it starts to float around in the atmosphere, it will continue to grow and eventually will be a real issue that we can claim people care about.

The fact that it's even being asked shows that this strategy is working. Until now, the media has never touched it. Now they're talking about it and that's the important thing. Soon, they'll be asking the Republicans and Bush to respond.

As I said, we need to play smart - and that often means resisting the temptation to try to do a takedown prematurely.

[kerryistheanswer]

6. In the General Election, Kerry will fight back

It would be silly for Kerry to comment on Bush's AWOL right now. He's trying to win the Democratic nomination and hasn't directly been attacked about throwing the back the medals yet.

If Bush and his boys were to directly attack Kerry's patriotism, he will respond back with force. Believe me, Kerry won't take their shit. He didn't back down from calling for regime change in the U.S. and he won't back down to Delay and his boys.

It would be premature to do so now.

[Leilani]

19. But he chopped Clark off at the knees

Kerry did not have to make a case for Bush being AWOL, he just had to leave it open, like "I don't know."

Instead, he made it sound that Ckark was over the top for his debate statements. And that he was giving Bush a complete stamp of approval on the issue.

I was very disappointed.

[cthrumatrix]

21. why did he not stick up for clark...?

[blm]

25. No he didn't. It wasn't Clark's statement he was addressing.

He was talking about the charge.

[adadem]

27. I didn't see it that way

This is Clark and Moore's issue at this time. Kerry shouldn't get involved...yet.

[creativelcro]

37. Says who ? You HOPE he'll fight back, but he won't...

[wabeewoman]

72. I have to differ kerryistheanswer...

Why do you expect him to stand up when he is the candidate? I supported him orginally but he was silent the past 3 years. He has not spoken up. Why will he have a sudden change in character when he is the nominee? My desire for a dem to win is deeper than my commitment to any candidate and I don't understand why kerry people expect him to suddenly change. It flies in the face of evidence to the contrary. If he is the nominee I hope I'm wrong but I don't expect I am.

[Old and In the Way]

7. I missed it.

I have to wonder what's up with the AWOL/deserter issue, though. Frankly, I have no doubt that Bush decided he had better things to do than finish his commitment. But I certainly wouldn't put it past them to do a forgery of the missing records....who'd know?

Better for Kerry and Clark to note that Bush "hid out" during VietNam and other kids in Texas took his place, because his dad pulled strings to get him a cushy TANG position. That's a fact no one can dispute. Nothing particularly gallent in his "service", IMHO.

[mikehiggins]

10. Go to Mike Moore's site. He has some forty pages of

documentation there about this very issue.

There is no doubt what happened. A rich boy hid out in the Guard, thanks to Daddy's influence, and when drug testing was started he just disappeared for a year, knowing nobody was going to go after him for his actions.

How many dead in VietNam?

How many dead in Iraq?

[Loren645]

49. Let's all send every word to Jennings! One page at a time.

Over and over.

Plus the Daily Howler!

I assume Media Whores has something on this.

[Jerseycoa]

68. Michael Moore

"In last night's Democratic Presidential debate in New Hampshire, broadcast on the Fox News (Nuisance?) Channel and ABC's Nightline, Peter Jennings went after Wesley Clark -- and me -- because I said I want to see Clark debate Bush... "The General vs. The Deserter."

"Jennings, referring to me as "the controversial filmmaker," asked if Clark wanted to distance himself from me and my "reckless" remark. Clark would not back down, stating how "delighted" he was with my support, and that I was entitled to say what I wanted to say -- AND that I was not the only one who had made these charges against Bush.

"The pundits immediately went berserk after the debate. As well they should. Because they know that they -- and much of the mainstream media -- ignored this Bush AWOL story when it was first revealed by an investigation in the Boston Globe (in 2000). The Globe said it appeared George W. Bush skipped out in the middle of his Texas Air National Guard service -- and no charges were ever brought against him. It was a damning story, and Bush has never provided any documents or evidence to refute the Globe's charges.

"George W. Bush was missing for at least a 12 month period. That is an undisputed fact. If you or I did that, we would serve time.

"Senator Daniel Inouye, Democrat of Hawaii and a World War II veteran, joined with Vietnam vets Sen. Max Cleland and Sen. Bob Kerrey to challenge Bush on the gaps in his military record. "The question is, where were you, Governor Bush? What would you do as commander-in-chief if someone in the National Guard did the same thing? At the least, I would have been court-martialed. At the least, I would have been placed in prison," Inouye said.

Source: George W. Bush, A.W.O.L, 1/23/04

[mikehiggins]

8. Kerry said "they" agreed long ago not to attack people because of

what they did in the VietNam era. (A paraphrase--I was listening, not taking notes)

It sounded like a political decision made by a man who doesn't want to see pictures of him and Jane Fonda all over the landscape.

Well, guess what, asshole? They're going to use it against you anyway.

He also said calling Bush a deserter was over the top.

This is my problem with Kerry. He's the same kind of politician that got us into this hole in the first place with his compromises and accomodations and his strategic silences. He's the guy who won't even bring a knife to a gun fight.

Last night it was claimed two campaigns were hitting Clark over that exchange. I'd bet I can guess which ones they were now.

[Jerseycoa]

12. "calling Bush a deserter was over the top."

This is the telling point, right here.

Some things are better left unsaid, as my old mother used to tell me.

I would like to know if any of the other candidates have been asked this question today and what their responses were if anyone can tell me.

[isbister]

17. Re: "calling Bush a deserter was over the top."

I didn't see what you're talking about but the "calling Bush a deserter was over the top." is accurate.

If someone had caught bush while he was sipping... whatever on Panama City Beach, FL at the time, they may have been able to make the deserter charge... that bush didn't have the intent to return to his unit.

So, now, since he eventually did return to his unit, the charge could be AWOL at best.

I think maybe Kerry (and Clark last night) knew the difference. Proving intent is difficult in a court of law, nevermind doing it at the spare of the moment on national tv.

[Loren645]

63. That shows a serious lack of class.

What a boner...

[blm]

14. Why? Kerry and Clark's answers were both noncommittal about the charge.

As they should be.

Let the campaign subdivisions handle attacking Bush on that one. That's the proper role at this time.

[Jerseycoa]

18. Clark said

Michael Moore has a right to say what he believes.

Kerry said Michael Moore's statement was over the top.

Kerry permitted Robert Novak to do the RW dance on Moore's head and Clark's head.

[Jerseycoa]

20. I went looking for this, I hope Tom doesn't mind

Tom Rinaldo (998 posts) Fri Jan-23-04 11:42 AM
Response to Original message

23. Clark took a hit for all of us last night


I posted this on an earlier thread, but if fits well here, so I am reposting it:

The set up was to embarrass Clark into disavowing Moore, because at this stage the percentage of the voting public who have heard anything about Bush being a deserter is tiny, and the charge sounds really really radical. Most people think the charge is blatantly false. Everyone KNOWS Bush served in the National Guard, how could he be a deserter? "He's run for Governor, he's run for President, you can't hide something like that, can you?" It SOUNDS like a wild conspiracy theory, like "the Jews" having advance knowledge about 9/11 or something of that order.

By pointedly NOT disavowing the statement, Clark left it dangling out there, forcing the media to "look into it" for him. This is risky for Clark. During that same reply Clark said he was proud to have Moore's support along with that of other great Americans. He defended Moore's right to express that opinion. Clark did not throw cold water on "Bush as deserter", rather he praised the man making the claim.

The big picture is, Clark is on the ballot in 4 days. His chances to become President go up or down in a serious way sooner rather than later. Still he did not run for shelter. It is one thing to be Ralph Nader, or someone like that, with absolutely no chance to get into the oval office where the levers of power are, and someone can actually make an immediate HUGE difference. Nader can say whatever the fuck he wants, he has nothing to lose, only to gain, by being direct and controversial. Even Howard Dean conceeded, when he was raked over for bringing up a "conspiracy theory" against Bush, that "I don't believe it, it's just something I hear that is out" or words to that effect. I don't fault Dean for using cover in the slightest,he got a lot of shit even as it was. I am just pointing out the real risk Clark has taken now.

Clark refused to disavow it Moore's statement. Clark is being treated tonight by the media almsot exactly as if he made the claim himself, because he would NOT disavow it. The pressure on Clark for not caving during the debate, for not backing away from Moore, is going to be intense over the next few days. I hope we leftists don't go "holier than thou" on Clark now, and get all hung up about Clark not taking an even more radical stance than he did. Remember that currently Clark does NOT draw most of his Primary support from the left, some of us back him sure, but more are backing Dean or Kucinich. Clark needs votes from a lot of moderates to win. Yet it was Clark making the most damning case against Bush and 9/11. It was Clark still expressing admiration for Michael Moore while the right gears up to smear them both as left wing loonies over Moore's Bush went A.W.O.l claim. By not refuting Moore, Clark has given us an opening to make this into a National issue. By not backpeddling away from Moore, Clark stood his ground for all of us.

[cthrumatrix]

22. good move with that analysis....

[Loren645]

70. Great post. Thank you for finding and sharing it.

We're now seeing the backbone we hoped for.
Clark is not playing it safe.

Kerry is.

[blm]

23. No. I meant Clark's OWN opinion about Bush's deserter status.

He wouldn't commit to an opinion of Bush's status. Neither would Kerry and that is how it should be right now.

That';s a job for subdivisions of the campaigns. Not the candidate. Not yet.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

15. Kerry will take the high road and let surrogates attack on AWOL

And if the Republicans come at Kerry with the 'anti-Vietnam-war' attack ads -- that's when you will see the spigots open up on the ketchup money and 'issue ads' about AWOL and more.

Teresa has specifically said she would not spend any of that 'unless they attack first'.

Gee, what are the chances of the Republicans attacking? lol

[HFishbine]

28. Actually, I respected that

when I first heard it. I thought it was a mature acknowledgement of the diviciveness of that era and a recognition of the need not to open healing wounds.

Maybe Kerry is a better man than I, because I'd sure like to see somebody nail Bush on this.

[seaglass]

36. When I heard it my first thought was conscientious objectors

and those who went to Canada or who got deferrments.

I don't know Kerry's stance but I would think it would be difficult after coming back from Viet Nam and acknowledging that the war was wrong to question the motives of those who took another course of action.

[HuckleB]

30. Dammit. I can't believe he said that.

He let it go. Clark gave him the perfect answer last night. Why not stick with it?

This is not a good sign.

[IndianaGreen]

32. Who is "they"?

Skull and Bones?

[incapsulated]

39. Although I'm dissappointed with this..

It's a strategic move on Kerry's part. First, he doesn't want any part of this controversy, it will possibly effect his march to victory in NH with only days to go. Second, he want's Clark hung with this, he knows damn well that SC and the other Feb. 3 states are going to be a very tough road for him and Clark and Edwards are going to be his main rivals.

It's politics. It's rarely pretty.

[bearfartinthewoods]

46. please tell me there aren't pics of kerry and fonda...

this was just an example right?

[IndianaGreen]

73. Well, there is this picture of the cover of Kerry's book

The rightwing website Newsmax has this about the picture in the cover of the book:

The book he doesn’t want you to see: When Kerry ran for election to the U.S. House of Representative in 1972, “he found it necessary to suppress reproduction of the cover picture appearing on his own book, The New Soldier. His political opponent pointed out that it depicted several unkempt youths crudely handling an American flag to mock the famous photo of the U.S. Marines at Iwo Jima,” according to Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry.

“Suddenly, copies of the book became unavailable and even disappeared from libraries. But the Lowell (Mass.) Sun said of the type of person shown on its cover: ‘These people spit on the flag, they burn the flag, they carry the flag upside down, they all but wipe their noses with it in their efforts to show their contempt for everything it still stands for,’” the New American reported.

Even today it is hard to find this infamous photo and book.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/20/131219.shtml

We know that Newsmax is garbage, however, many veterans take Newsmax as Gospel truth, just as they do Faux.

BTW, you can find the book for sale in the out-of-print section of Barnes & Noble, no image shown, for $825.00 (eight hundred twent five dollars)

[NNN0LHI]

9. I think Kerry's answer was OK

He never said the charge was not true. He only said he was not going to involve himself in the mystery of Bush's whereabouts for that year. If his camp has concluded that it is better for someone else to expose Bush on this I respect their decision.

Don

[kentuck]

13. Did he say the charge was "over the top"?

What did he mean by that?

[NNN0LHI]

29. Listen kentuck. I ain't got no dog in this fight

I will be happy this November to vote for whoever the nominee is. If this response hurts Kerry in the long haul, so be it. It isn't no skin off my nose. I am just saying it will not be a big deal in the grand scheme of things when it comes time for me to vote.

Don

[Namvet04]

51. Kerry to me answer like a leader should

I am a nam vet and I wish everyone would forgive and forget about who fought and did not. The other side tried to use it on Clinton and it never worked. Forget the past and press on towards the future.

We have enough problems to fix and why worry about something many years ago that nothing will become of it.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

11. Bush has found Jesus and repented for the youthful indiscretions

That's one problem. Kerry does not need to get off message talking about Bush's fuck-ups BEFORE he became president. There's quite enough to talk about from the past 3 years.

...and leave the digging to others. This WILL come out.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

16. Good point.

[TexasSissy]

41. Cowardice isn't a youthful indiscretion.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

53. EXCELLENT response!

You good. That is a legitimate counter. Bravery is independent of maturity, and a window to character.
Damn. We can take this one into the arena.

[AP]

26. milquetoasty is what he's aiming for in NH - no slip-ups and he wins.

[kentuck]

33. I think he's playing it safe....

Maybe it will work?

[beaconess]

43. I don't think he's playing it safe, just smart

Why do any of the Dems need to muddy themselves trying to dirty up Bush with the AWOL claim when the issue is being talked about without them having to say a word. They're doing exactly the right thing. "I would NEVER accuse George Bush of being a deserter because he never showed up for National Guard duty and wouldn't THINK of suggesting that he is a draft dodger since I don't have all of the facts. I also can't accept or deny what Michael Moore is saying about Bush being a draft dodger who went AWOL because I don't know what he's basing that on."

And then the press reports that the candidates declined to accuse Bush of being a draft dodger who went AWOL.

The important thing is not who is making the accusation but that it's being talked about. The Dems are playing it just right.

[creativelcro]

35. That is my problem with Kerry.... he's a Gore rerun

Talks big, but when the time comes to stand up he wimps out...

[cthrumatrix]

38. people just want thier candidate to win...this is going to haunt us if we

don't start sticking up for this media ambush/slant with some facts

[texasmom]

44. I agree completely!

We have to wake up. It's not about just getting our guy nominated. It's bigger than that.

[TopesJunkie]

45. Yowza! That's a horrendous mistake --

I can't believe he let Bush off the hook. This freaks me out. If Kerry won't fight now, why should I think that he will ever fight?

[quaker bill]

47. What about his vote for the patriot act and IWR

made you think he was ever going to?

I rather expect a civil discussion of policy differences between him and Bush is the best we can hope for here.

[TopesJunkie]

48. One has to hope for the best --

Obviously, my hopes have been dashed by Kerry for good.

[zulchzulu]

50. Transcript please

I know there are people here who misquote candidates without a source for their own political expediency.

As for Kerry bringing up Bush's AWOL record now, that is silly. It's freaking January already...

[bicentennial_baby]

54. Here you go

NOVAK: Senator Kerry, at last night's debate, General Clark was asked about a statement made in his presence by Michael Moore that President Bush is a -- was a deserter.

In the absence -- and General Clark said he didn't know anything about that, but he didn't know one way or the other.

KERRY: Yes.

NOVAK: In the absence of any -- any allegations to that effect, what do you think of calling the president of the United States a deserter? Or do you have some information that that is accurate?

KERRY: No, obviously, I don't. I think it's over-the-top language, Bob. And I think that's not what my campaign is about.

My campaign is about the American people. It's about bringing our country together, not dividing it, and trying to find a way to make it more fair. We need to put people back to work. We need health care for all Americans. We've got an education system in crisis. And we've got a president who's giving tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, rather than investing in and facing up to those choices, as well as being fiscally responsible.

BEGALA: But you've talked a lot about your experiences in Vietnam, had a rally today with several Vietnam veterans. Why not raise the questions about George W. Bush's service?

In truth, your hometown paper, "The Boston Globe..."

KERRY: Well...

BEGALA: ... has reported in great detail that there's not a scrap of evidence that, for a year, that he ever showed up for his National Guard duty. He'd been transferred to the Alabama National Guard.

KERRY: Right.

BEGALA: He never showed up. It's certainly not desertion. But it's certainly not fulfillment of one's obligation. It was your hometown paper. I mean, you must be familiar with

(CROSSTALK)

KERRY: Paul, that's not -- that's not the ground I want to fight this campaign on.

And I'm very proud of my service. I'm glad that I got the experience I got. And I'm proud of the friendships I have from it. But a lot of us decided many years ago not to make the other choices people made an issue. It was a very complicated time. It was a very difficult time. What I want to talk about now is the future, how we bring the country together over a war that has been bum-rushed at the American people.


http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0401/23/cf.00.html

[TopesJunkie]

57. OK. That does it --

Kerry is refusing to fight. He needs to pull out now. We can't win with Kerry.

[Southsideirish]

59. No "fire in the belly".

That was why his campaign was such a flop in the beginning. The Iowa caucuses were a total Iowa fluke - he got tons of support from the Gephardt people which inflated his total numbers.

[Loren645]

64. Thank you BB.

My but Senator Kerry is one collegiate fellow.
Completely changes depending on who he's talking to.
Shape shifter.

[zulchzulu]

69. OK...so he didn't call Bush a little...

...pussy chickenshit girly man....yet...

He's being civil. He's not Howard Dean that runs off with his mouth and then has to retract crap tomorrow.

That's why he's ahead. Watch and learn.

[Moderator]

76. bicentennial_baby

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
news source.


Thank you


DU Moderator

[Jerseycoa]

55. Crossfire Transcript

NOVAK: Senator Kerry, at last night's debate, General Clark was asked about a statement made in his presence by Michael Moore that President Bush is a -- was a deserter.

In the absence -- and General Clark said he didn't know anything about that, but he didn't know one way or the other.

KERRY: Yes.

NOVAK: In the absence of any -- any allegations to that effect, what do you think of calling the president of the United States a deserter? Or do you have some information that that is accurate?

KERRY: No, obviously, I don't. I think it's over-the-top language, Bob. And I think that's not what my campaign is about.

My campaign is about the American people. It's about bringing our country together, not dividing it, and trying to find a way to make it more fair. We need to put people back to work. We need health care for all Americans. We've got an education system in crisis. And we've got a president who's giving tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, rather than investing in and facing up to those choices, as well as being fiscally responsible. BEGALA: But you've talked a lot about your experiences in Vietnam, had a rally today with several Vietnam veterans. Why not raise the questions about George W. Bush's service?

In truth, your hometown paper, "The Boston Globe..."

KERRY: Well...

BEGALA: ... has reported in great detail that there's not a scrap of evidence that, for a year, that he ever showed up for his National Guard duty. He'd been transferred to the Alabama National Guard.

KERRY: Right.

BEGALA: He never showed up. It's certainly not desertion. But it's certainly not fulfillment of one's obligation. It was your hometown paper. I mean, you must be familiar with

(CROSSTALK)

KERRY: Paul, that's not -- that's not the ground I want to fight this campaign on.

Source: Crossfire 1/23/04

[Jerseycoa]

56. This is what preceded: Begala/Novak

NOVAK: General Wesley Clark plowed new ground for presidential candidates in last night's New Hampshire debate. He kept sneaking peeks at crib notes when asked about abortion.

But he still could not say yes or no when asked about eighth- or, would you believe it, even nine-month abortions. Worse yet was his refusal to condemn leftist propagandist Michael Moore for libeling President Bush as a deserter. Maybe General Wes was auditioning as a replacement for Carville or Begala, not for George W. Bush.

BEGALA: Michael Moore apparently said Bush is a deserter. That's not true. A deserter is someone who leaves during combat. Bush was AWOL. He signed up for a National Guard tour of duty. And a year before it was finished, he stopped showing up. He was AWOL from the Guard for a year. It's a legitimate issue.

NOVAK: It's never been -- that's never been proved on the AWOL.

(CROSSTALK)

NOVAK: AWOL, of course, is a crime and could be brought before a court-martial. That's never been the case. But he is not a deserter. And for General Clark, who knows what a deserter is... (BELL RINGING)

NOVAK: ... to sit there and not say that's wrong is disgraceful.

BEGALA: Well, he was AWOL. And that's a bigger disgrace.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

52. I think it's great that Bush AWOL was in the news 2 nights running!

[TopesJunkie]

58. It won't be there again -- thanks to Kerry --

[LiberalBushFan]

60. Don't anyone think Kerry's answer is like Clark's

Clark not only left it out the open but indirectly supported it by saying "He's not the only one who's said this." Kerry says it's "over-the-top" and nearly puts it to rest. They're in fact opposites. Kerry is still the coward we thought he was.

He is a coward now and he will be one against Bush. He'll say "the war is wrong." Bush will say "You voted for it." And he'll say, "Well Saddam was an evil evil man and I'm glad he's gone but I could have done it better." And he'll be seen as one of them "Democrats with an agenda" that doesn't match his vote.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

61. Your analysis is off

Here's what Kerry said:

KERRY: Yes.

NOVAK: In the absence of any -- any allegations to that effect, what do you think of calling the president of the United States a deserter? Or do you have some information that that is accurate?

KERRY: No, obviously, I don't. I think it's over-the-top language, Bob. And I think that's not what my campaign is about.

My campaign is about the American people. It's about bringing our country together, not dividing it, and trying to find a way to make it more fair. We need to put people back to work. We need health care for all Americans. We've got an education system in crisis. And we've got a president who's giving tax cuts to the wealthiest Americans, rather than investing in and facing up to those choices, as well as being fiscally responsible. BEGALA: But you've talked a lot about your experiences in Vietnam, had a rally today with several Vietnam veterans. Why not raise the questions about George W. Bush's service?

In truth, your hometown paper, "The Boston Globe..."

KERRY: Well...

BEGALA: ... has reported in great detail that there's not a scrap of evidence that, for a year, that he ever showed up for his National Guard duty. He'd been transferred to the Alabama National Guard.

KERRY: Right.

BEGALA: He never showed up. It's certainly not desertion. But it's certainly not fulfillment of one's obligation. It was your hometown paper. I mean, you must be familiar with

(CROSSTALK)

KERRY: Paul, that's not -- that's not the ground I want to fight this campaign on.

And I'm very proud of my service. I'm glad that I got the experience I got. And I'm proud of the friendships I have from it. But a lot of us decided many years ago not to make the other choices people made an issue. It was a very complicated time. It was a very difficult time. What I want to talk about now is the future, how we bring the country together over a war that has been bum-rushed at the American people.

Their -- the president did not do, I think, the diplomacy that the United States of America deserves, that the world deserves, before you take a nation to war. There's no graver decision that a president makes. And when the international community is sending you every signal in the world, slow down, let's do this in a responsible way, a president ought to listen. This president didn't.

And now the American people are over $200 billion out of pocket. Our American soldiers are more exposed than they ought to be, because they are not sharing the risk. It's the wrong way to take a nation to war. It was the right thing to do to stand up to Saddam Hussein, but he's done it in the wrong way.
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0401/23/cf.00.html

Kerry criticized the rhetoric, and did not comment on the facts.

JENNINGS: At one point, Mr. Moore said, in front of you, that President Bush—he’s saying he’d like to see you, the general, and President Bush, who he called a “deserter.” Now, that’s a reckless charge not supported by the facts. And I was curious to know why you didn’t contradict him, and whether or not you think it would’ve been a better example of ethical behavior to have done so.

CLARK: Well, I think Michael Moore has the right to say whatever he feels about this. I don’t know whether this is supported by the facts or not. I’ve never looked at it. I’ve seen this charge bandied about a lot. But to me it wasn’t material. This election is going to be about the future, Peter. And what we have to do is pull this country together…

JENNINGS: Let me ask you something you mentioned, then, because since this question and answer in which you and Mr. Moore was involved in, you’ve had a chance to look at the facts. Do you still feel comfortable with the fact that someone should be standing up in your presence and calling the president of the United States a deserter?

CLARK: To be honest with you, I did not look at the facts, Peter. You know, that’s Michael Moore’s opinion. He’s entitled to say that. I’ve seen—he’s not the only person who’s said that. I’ve not followed up on those facts. And frankly, it’s not relevant to me and why I’m in this campaign.
(sorry I don't have a link for this, I lifted it from another thread that didn't give the link)

Clark, on the other hand, says: "To be honest with you, I did not look at the facts"

Well to be honest with you, gentle reader, I think Clark is as familiar with the facts about Bush being AWOL as we are.

[LiberalBushFan]

62. I don't think my analysis is off at all

I'm going to quote from your quote:

Begala: What do you think of calling the president of the United States a deserter? Or do you have some information that that is accurate?

Kerry: No, obviously, I don't.

That's not just criticizing the rhetoric. If BEGALA had not supported the AWOL charge, you would have thought the Bush's service record was just fine from Kerry's words alone. Kerry can't stand up to Begala, who SUPPORTS the AWOL charge, as well as Clark stood up to Jennings.

[Jerseycoa]

65. Clark also defended freedom of speech

And today Clark called out the debate host Fox as facilitating the Republican agenda.

Kerry could have done some fucking thing besides belittle Michael Moore and distance himself from the battle our party is facing. The RW is out after Democrats, all of us. Kerry had an opportunity to call it what it was and he passed. I hope he can make up for it real damn soon.

[Tom Rinaldo]

66. At the moment Kerry is too busy calling Clark a Republican

Pardon me but I'm pissed. I'll still vote for Kerry if... blah blah blah, but I'm pissed. His campaign is mailing out new Clark is a Republican flyers this weekend and he goes on Cross fire and sells out Clark and Moore?

By the way, jerseycoa, you certainly had my permission for reposting my post above.

[Jerseycoa]

67. I figured

;)

[Leilani]

75. This is just so Predictable

We really had a chance to shake things up, with Clark's answer from the debate. It's so obvious the Repugs & Fox were trying to take Clark down.

Kerry didn't have to martyr himself over this; he just had to leave it open. Instead he has turned on Clark, because winning is more important than the principles involved here.

Same old, same old. Nothing will change, & the GE will be Bush/Gore revisited.

[Loren645]

71. I'm not a Kerry supporter, and it's lookin' like I never will be.

Seriously disgusted with him.

[HuckleB]

74. I'm with him.