"The Media Took-Out Dean": It just doesn't add-up.

[Indiana Democrat]

I am Glad Senator Kerry has over-taken Govenor-Dean. I am glad Senator Edwards has over-taken Govenor Dean. I am glad General Clark is running neck-and-neck with Govenor Dean.

Now we have a chance to win!


The overwhelming opinion seems to be that "The Media" set-out to destroy Governor Dean...I disagree, it doesn't add-up...

If "The Media" was against him, why destroy him now? Why not wait until the general election when we wouldn't have a chance to nominate someone who CAN win?


I think Kerry can beat the Bush, I think Edwards can beat Bush, and I think Clark can beat Bush. I never thought Dean could beat Bush...Not even close...And he proved me right.

So...I see two clear choices here...

1) If "The Media" did do this to Dean, they're obviously on our side.

2) If "The Media" did NOT do this to Dean, Govenor Dean did it to himself.

Which is it?





On Edit...

I do like Govenor Dean...I respect Govenor Dean...I think he brought a LOT of issues to the forefront and will always be grateful to him...He was a net PLUS for the Democratic Primary.

I just never thought he could win the general election...Not even close.

(In other words...I'm not "Bashing" Govenor Dean.)

[David Zephyr]

1. Kerry Will Be Next After Clark.

But enjoy your moment of happiness regarding Dean.

The media will hit Kerry, only after Clark and Dean have been savaged by them, on drugs and women. It's coming. I hope you are prepared.

[Warpy]

9. You bet!!

Dean was the primary target because he'd done an end run around all the party hacks and built his own organization from the ground up. Unforgiveable! As soon as they had some footage they could take out of context--a pep rally for the faithful which was shown to prove he was a lunatic instead of a mannerly public speaker--they ran with it.

Trust me, they'll do the same to all the favorites listed above. You can like who you want to, but don't think this is going to be something that is only directed at the candidate you don't like. Try to remember who owns the media, and work from there.

[AP]

16. End-run around hacks? He got a lot of endorsements from those hacks.

[Warpy]

21. OH?

The only DLC insider to endorse him was Gore, hardly a landslide of support from within the party. McAuliffe and Clinton havee been the souls of discretion, probably both annoyed as hell with Gore.

[AP]

22. Million Dollar Bill wasn't DLC? Surprise there.

[liberalnurse]

20. Ditto......

make no mistake, Rove and the GOP have executed their plan with the help of all democrats and their hands remain clean.....

Dean was easy, because he is honest.

[Nicholas_J]

37. The Republicans have been trying to take Kerry out

For 35 years now, and if they controlled the media, they would have taken him out long ago, not now. If they wanted Dean, they could have easily gone back to his record as Governor, lookesd at his statements supporting Newt Gingrich and his record of having his own little secret energy group comprosed of mostly Republican Energy Executives, and brought out the fact that Dean had heavy Republican support during his campaigns for Governor, and all of the other stuff they brought out about his records as Governor long before he ever got a chance to do well in the polls at all,

They could have destroyed his chances before he ever got a start, rather than letting him get anywhere within striking distance of running against Bush if they were that worried about him. All this stuff was open and available to the public for the lasr 12 years. Vemront is a small state, no one outside of the state knows much or even cares much about what goes on inside of it, except when someone from the state is running for a national office. There is nothing more sinister to it than that. Deans record, both during his early campaign and during his tenure as governor has now been opened to more public scrutiny than it has been before, whle Kerry's entire record is pretty much an open book, as he is already a national figure, and his voting record on every issue is well known, and he has been attacked many times by Republican and other conservative groups like the Cato Institute for years.

The facts are that virtually all nomination campaigns have run this way, with the person who was the frontrunner for most of the months before a few weeks prior to the primaries ends up coming down a great deal during the early caucuses and the primaries. Bill Bradley had as much as a 39 point lead over Al Gore in November and December of 1999.
This is probably the most common occurance during the democratic and sometimes during the Republican nomination process. In December of 1999 and Early January of 2000, the media said that the nominations were all sewn up and that the opposing candidates would be Bill Bradley and John McCain.

There is a simpler answer, and that is there are only som many times that any candidate can say "What I meant was" before the public begins to question that candidates behavior, and it is the job of the media to cover the candidates, and look at their records, and look for inconsistant behavior and statements in their records and thie campaigns. WHich is why during Kerry's first meeting with Iowans set up by Harkin, Kerry simply stated that people should not listen to cnadidates campaign speeches alone, but look back at their entire record while in public service and base their decisions on that.

Kerry has had an impecable record as a Democrat for his entire eighteen years in the Senate, and that has been reflected in his ratings from various liberal and democratic organizations who keep track of the records of elected officials. There is little about Kerry that is not known, while in Deans case, there simply was a great deal more that was not known to the electorate and the media is obligatted to report it.

As the media makes that record available, most people put togetther an entire picture of the candidate and finally make a choice.

[sandnsea]

40. Drugs and women???

Where do people come up with this stuff?? Drugs and women. :eyes: When he was a kid? When he was a bachelor? If there were drugs and women problems with Kerry, Joe Trippi would have gladly savaged him.

[spooky3]

45. I hear Kerry once forgot to feed his pet goldfish in the morning.

Clark once failed military inspection because a button was missing from his uniform.

Sharpton once forgot his lines in the school play.

Kucinich once stole an apple off his 6th grade teacher's desk.

Edwards once failed to trim his nose hair before an important court appearance.

Dean once wore his Tuesday Day-of-the-week underwear on a Thursday.

Lieberman once dated a woman who was a former roommate of another woman he had dated only five years previously.

Shocking, shocking, I tell you!

I think that it is important that all of you know the full truth about these horrible Democrats! I just wanted to help out our overworked media who is trying hard to uncover these important stories for you!

[kayleybeth]

48. LOL spooky3!

you wrote:

I think that it is important that all of you know the full truth about these horrible Democrats! I just wanted to help out our overworked media who is trying hard to uncover these important stories for you!

Ain't it the truth! That is by far the funniest post of the day! Thank you for that! :-)

[beaconess]

50. There goes Edwards and that insincere hair again

It will be his downfall, I tell you!

[absyntheNsugar]

2. One theory

Is that the Dean promotion was done by Right-wingers in the media, hoping to give Bush an easy opponent. And that the taking out of Dean early was done by the remaining leftists in the media who want the Dem to have a fighting chance against Bush.

It's a theory - one I don't totally subscribe to.

Personally I think the media was just being what the media is - they look for anomolies and blow them bigger than they are - the rise in support initiated reporters to focus on it, which then got the snowball rolling. When the story got old, the reporters moved on, and the support for Dean shriveled up.

[AP]

6. The first part's probably right: the right wing wanted a patsy to go

up against Bush, but when it looked like he wasn't going to win (which must have begun to dawn on anyone with a good, accurate poll by midweek last week, but definitely no later than 20 minutes into CSPAN's caucus coverage) then the media had to make some other use of him.

They made him the poster boy for the campaign for 9 months. Deriding him publicly on Tuesday was a way to tar the whole field, and make them all contrast poorly to Bush's SOTU.

So, bottom line: they ignored his weaknesses when they wanted him to win. They exaggerated them when they wanted the rest to lose (and after Dean defeated himself).

[absyntheNsugar]

31. You can't discount pack journalism tho

Reporters work in packs - if a story leads it becomes the obsession.

I mean think about how many women go missing each year - why focus on Laci Peterson? Pure pack journalism. The same happened with Dean - he made interesting sound bites, but the story gets old.

BTW...Although I'm a Clark supporter...I would wager on your candidate. Quite honestly, I think he has the best chance to win the nomination.

[lurk_no_more]

43. Have you been reading my mail?

I've been saying this all week, what dean did was his demise while making the rest appear insignificant by using the meme that dean was the leader of the pack and now, after Monday night who can possibly take any of the others serious.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[w4rma]

3. If Kerry shared your attitude, he would lose the general election easily.

The media WILL do the same thing to any Democratic candidate that gets on their radar. Bet on it.

Also, this isn't over by a long shot.

[AP]

4. The media drove that car as far as it could and abandoned it in Iowa.

Split up on a dark sad night
Both agreeing it was futile.
Dean turned around to look at Fox
As they was walkin’ away
I heard Dean say over his shoulder,
"we’ll meet again someday on the avenue,"
Tangled up in blue.

[w4rma]

5. Edwards blew up that evening to some journalists who wanted to film

him getting on to his plane.

Think about this. Big media *could* have aired that over and over again. No candidate is "safe".

[AP]

7. Without a citation it sounds like a weak attempt at rumour-mongering.

If it was true, it would have been all over Drudge.

[w4rma]

17. citation

...
Everybody in the country saw it. What they didn't see later on, though, was Edwards barking at TV photographers as he and his wife waited to board their charter flight at about 11 p.m.

For some reason, Edwards didn't want the photogs filming him getting on the plane.

"I'm not walking out the door if you do," he said, according to an eyewitness.

Bringing the final debate of the caucus season to an end, the photogs promised to turn the cameras off once Edwards walked past them in the terminal.

"It was really rude," my eyewitness said. "He raised his voice and waved his arms."

Mr. Positive Campaigner? Mr. Happy Warrior? Hard to believe.

"Believe it. I decided then and there I'd never vote for him. I like better manners in my president."

I should have told the eyewitness not to be so judgmental. It's been a tough race. Everybody's entitled to a bad moment.

"Nobody could understand it. Maybe he didn't want everyone to see that Kerry had a bigger plane than he did."

Could be, though it isn't something you really want to analyze. Let them worry about it in New Hampshire.
http://desmoinesregister.com/opinion/stories/c5917686/23324305.html

[AP]

27. Perhaps this is why Edwards has been able to control his image and frame..

...the debate? I'd also like to cross-examine that unnamed witness and get a few corroborating witnesses (all those reporters there and all they have is one unnamed witness?).

Also probably worth quoting this from the article:



In fairness, it's surprising more candidates don't lose it after all that time on the campaign trail. They don't sleep. They barely have time to eat. They hop on and off airplanes the way the rest of us slide in and out of our cars. And these aren't college kids.

People are constantly tugging at them. Come here, go there. Somebody's always advising them to smile more or be more assertive.

[Southsideirish]

8. He got very "snarly" with Carol when she challenged him.

I wish there was a photo of the nasty sneer on his face when Carol challenged him about something at one of the debates in Iowa. He really lashed out at her and snapped like a snapping turtle.
I think he is very thin skinned and isn't used to being challenged - esp by a woman. I believe it was something about his record involving African-Americans in SC.

[AP]

11. Literally, laughing at that. And I don't me I'm typing LOL. I mean I am

actually laughing out loud at the implication.

I hope this is true. I thought it was some poor innocent hard-working journalist this rumour would be about.

If it's about Crowley, good.

But my question: did you hear about this from Crowley? Is this Crowley reporting on Crowley. Because if it is, then it's double-hearsay, and highly unreliable.

[KittyWampus]

13. His Voting Record Stacked Up Against Bush

Carol misrepresented Edwards record.

[AP]

14. Oops. might be deriding wrong reporter above. Carol who?

[Southsideirish]

38. Sorry, being from Illinois, I thought everyone knew "Carol" - Moseley

Braun.

[w13rd0]

10. Shees...

...that's some rather fascinating "logic"...

[Indiana Democrat]

12. Dispute it.

[AP]

15. 2000

That's enough evidence the media isn't on our side, so there goes number one.

Dean didn't do anything to himself. The media made him and the media took him apart. Just because they build you up doesn't mean the like you, and just because they take you apart doesn't mean they're trying to help other Democrats.

Everything the media does, they do it for Republicans.

So come up with a theory that works within that paradigm.

[Indiana Democrat]

18. "So come up with a theory that works within that paradigm."

No thanks. I'll stick with the two original theories I listed above.

[AP]

24. Why do you disagree with my arguments, then?

Curious. You really think the media likes Dems after 2000? You really think they're plan is to help? Why'd they wait so long with Dean? Why prop him up for so long if you think he's a danger to the viability of an electable Dem?

Why'd they ignore Edwards, and rip on Kerry and Clark (whom, anyone can tell, are the most likely winners)?

The media is not interested in helping the dems.

[Indiana Democrat]

32. It's pretty obvious...

...MY answer is number two.

I just didn't think I would have to point it out so many times.

[AP]

35. And I'm saying they're not helping the dems by piling on Dean.

It makes ALL dems look bad. Notice it stopped after SOTU. That's why they did it. Now we're in 'feel sorry for dean' mode, which is actually giving him a second chance.

[w13rd0]

34. Dispute it?

You mean dispute this:


1) If "The Media" did do this to Dean, they're obviously on our side.

2) If "The Media" did NOT do this to Dean, Govenor Dean did it to himself.

Which is it?


Wow, that's a positively Bushian choice, like "the media is either with Dean, or against him". Either/or with the setting crafted to produce desired results. Furthermore, your entire "choice" is predicated on Dean not being "electable", and the trinity you mention as being "electable".

pfft, why bother...

[kcwayne]

19. Its neither

If you think that a media that ridicules a candidate 24x7, constantly pressing the message that they are radical, mean spirited, volatile, unpatriotic, disconnected, unworthy, and a liar is on "our" side, I have to question what side are you on?

When the other candidates step in and echo these same comments of the right wing media, they further the right wings cause.

Dean has been marginalized unfairly. Gloat in it if you will, but recognize that your candidate is next. I take no joy in that, because it is utterly disastrous to the cause of getting that sorry SOB out of Washington to have Democrats stabbing each other in the back.

[Indiana Democrat]

23. The obvious answer is...

Dean did it to himself.

Personally, I just wish more would admit to it. I don't like the conspiracy theories...I don't like the excuses...They lead to self-fulilling prophecies...Prophecies of LOSING!!

[edzontar]

33. Can we PLEASE give it a rest? This is SO two days ago!

nt

[kcwayne]

36. Its not obvious at all

If you want to believe that any misstatement by Kerry, Edwards, or Clark will not be cannon fodder for Fox, CNN, CNBC, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, and NBC, not to mention all of the Reich wing radio and new papers in the country, then you are not paying attention.

They started in on Clark yesterday. If Kerry wins New Hampshire, they'll be all over him. Touch base after you are hurling lunch over the 200th version of Kerry the Viet Nam baby killer, unpatriotic drug addled Viet Nam Vet that disgraced his uniform, the spineless left wing waffler, blah, blah, blah played out daily on Rush, Hannity, Wolf, Jennings, et al.

No conspiracy theory, its out in the open for anyone that simply turns on the news.

[NewHampster]

25. Congratulations Karl Rove - You've already won.

It all comes down to divide and conquer and i'm finally figuring out that this board is full of seemingly intelligent people who just can't see it being done to them.

Sad but true.

I'll be sending in my credentials to the Hillary 2008 Campaign because thats the next chance we'll get. If we still have elections.

[Indiana Democrat]

29. You think I've been brainwashed by Karl Rove?

Rarely have I been so insulted.

I would reply to you in kind but it might get me banned. So, just imagine what I'm thinking.

[FreeperSlayer]

49. You're assuming Dean will be nominated

[sweetladybug]

26. Kerry is the next Democrat for the media to bitch about.

Once Kerry goes down, who ever is leading next will go down. It's SMEAR TIME they want the Appointed one for the next 4 years. Remember the Republicans own most of the news media. The everyday people had better wise up or this country is going straight to hell.
RE-ELECT A DEMOCRAT 2004!!!!

[frustrated_lefty]

28. I'll say again: I've given this thought

I'm coming to the conclusion that the rightwing pundits and media aren't attacking any of the candidates because they really fear any of them particularly much.

The rightwing seems to be confident Bush will win no matter who has the nomination. Jeb is still in Florida. Ahnold is in California. Texas has been re-districted. Investigation into 9/11 and the Plame affair has been effectively stonewalled. Saddam has been captured. I would not be surprised to learn Bin Laden is already being held in a "spider-hole" waiting to be pulled out as an October surprise.

It isn't a question to the extreme rightwing that they will win. I'm not saying the will, but the neoconservative wing has no doubt this election is locked up. What they're playing at now is determining how badly the democrats will lose.

And the best way to do that is leave the democrats entering the DNC with 3 or 4 viable candidates. They can simply say "look, all the democratic candidates suck so badly, the dems are struggling to figure out which one sucks the least."

In a situation like that, it doesn't matter which candidate we select, we'll have the lowest democratic turnout in a century or more in the general election.

We need to stop thinking of this as "they fear <my guy>," because they don't. We need to realize we're being set up for the worst defeat the party has ever experienced. Any of the top 4 can do the job, although the battle may be tight.

We all need to start replying to the media when they character-assassinate ANY of our candidates. WE need to remove the media from our decision making process, and WE need to consider our candidates on the basis of their merits.

If you doubt this, notice the heat on Dean has slowed to a simmer. He's clearly not dead yet, although may still be bleeding. Clark is getting hit, Edwards is getting jabs, and Kerry is getting light nips.

Aside from us political fruitcakes who track this stuff closely for hours a day, the average American spends maybe 30-60 minutes watching the news, gets a few impressions from Leno or Letterman. This media coverage has a profound effect on perception. We cannot tolerate media assassination of ANY of our candidates. WE have to shift the attention from soundbytes to issues.

[NashVegas]

52. That And More

What they fear the most is an anti-Bush message going out en masse, unfiltered and unstoppable.

[edzontar]

30. This is a most counter-productive post.

The Media have not "Taken out" Gov. Dean, bnecause the race is NOT OVER YET.

I would add that you seem to have a very naieve conception of the media.

The media are an especially dangerous and untrustworty beast.

They can turn at the slightest smell of blood.

As long as that blood belongs to a Democrat.

This is a coporate media with a coroporate agends.

They sense that Dean and Clark may not be able to be controlled.

When Kerry becomes a threat, they will turn, my friend, and ypou may have to rely on some of US to help defend him.

Hopefully we shall not be as petty and shortsighted as some of my firends were the other night.

[Indiana Democrat]

53. "Counter-Productive"??

Giving my opinion on a discussion forum is somehow counter-productive??

I'm curious...

Are you of the opinion that if Congressman Kucinich won the Democratic nomination, he could beat Bush in the general election?

[bitchkitty]

39. "unelectable"

that dog don't hunt. The race is far from over.

[edzontar]

42. I have to ask--how can anyone with a LIFe post these

Endless "electability" threads.

I think candidates should run on issues and principles.

Stick to your guns.

THAT will earn you some RESPECT.

And make you...."electable."

[Skwmom]

41. Go to moderateindependent.com

I think they are one of the few that even have a clue as to what is going on. The Repubs control the media. While the Dems were debating campaign finance the Carlye group was busy buying up more local stations and newspapers making campaign finance a mute issue.

[maddezmom]

47. Clark is going to call out the GOP/Faux every chance he can n/t

[dansolo]

44. I don't think Kerry can win the general election

If Dean can't beat Bush, there is no way that Kerry will.

[oasis]

46. If you register and vote for him, that will be enough.

[Parrcrow]

51. Mainstream media loves scandal

they were more than willing to grant credibility to lying rightwing hacks. They could not pace themselves. The problem is premature ejaculation.