Kerry attack material from NH (link to scans)

[magatte]

Some of you may have heard of Kerry's negative campaigning attack over the past few days in NH. Here are scans of the actual prospectuses.
Link goes to a discussion on Clark' official blog.


http://bmcw.forclark.com/story/2004/1/23/222022/594/

[slinkerwink]

1. we need to bring down Kerry

the only people who truly deserve a two-person race is Dean and Clark because of their anti-war position.

[xultar]

19. While I agree about the Anti-war thing I don't agree with the takedown

that isn't right.
(edit)
Negative campaigning and using lies will come back to haunt anyone who uses them to attack another Democrat.

I do believe Kerry's lies in his negative campaign ads will bite him in the ass. He'll take himself down with those gross and distorted flyers.

[JohnKleeb]

44. And you were criticizing Clark last week for SOA slink

:eyes:

[blm]

48. Yea...I thought SOA was a dealbreaker?

The consistency is.....um...well...there is no consistency, is there?

[JohnKleeb]

50. Its my problem with Clark frankly blm

Its ironic, it seems they dont like Kucinich working with a decent man Edwards, now they want to work together to stop Kerry. Interesting development I must say.

[JI7]

22. how about kucinich ?

?

[slinkerwink]

23. I think DK should be brought down also for throwing away his IWR position

to buddy-buddy with Edwards in Iowa.

[diamondsoul]

25. You know I'm so tired of comments like that.

I have a question for you. How much did you know about the Iowa Caucuses and how they work before last month? How much do you know about them now?

My response will depend on your answers to those questions.

[slinkerwink]

27. I know a lot about caucuses right now.....and what I've learned

doesn't paint a good picture of Kerry or Kucinich.

[blm]

84. That's absurd. Kerry and Kucinich are two of the best

in government. If YOU can't handle political reality and that YOUR guy and his team blew it all by themselves then you found the wrong hobby.

[THUNDER HANDS]

31. that's a rather unfair statement

We don't need to bring down anyone. And if Dean was the frontrunner now I'd be saying the same thing.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

36. Kerry, the Bob Dole of 2004, must be stopped from destroying the party

Kerry's the only candidate that can make Bush seems like less of the rich aristocrat than he is. That's going to play how in the south? Kerry's a disaster waiting to happen.

[Zomby Woof]

52. but but but

I thought Dean's anti-war position was only for Iraq, and that the MEDIA was running him as the anti-war candidate, and that DEAN is going back to "the issues"... :crazy:

As for DK "selling out", HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.... A complaint I have only heard from Dean supporters, most of who know NOTHING about the process. Bitterness over a 3rd place whipping in Iowa, no doubt.

[Walt Starr]

69. Kerry is probably taking himself down

After a unified debate where the real differences came out in a cordial atmosphere, Kerry has decided to go negaative.

It will probably have the ame effect on him that it did on Gephardt in Iowa.

With any luck, the corporatist will have to drop out.

[bigtree]

2. Inspiring

"We need to bring down Kerry"

:freak:

[w13rd0]

3. Please pardon me...

...while I try to fabricate a sense of surprise...

There's something happenin here...
The distortions aren't exactly clear...
Those at fault try to exploit fear...

[ringmastery]

4. What is offensive about this material?

It's quoting newspaper articles.

So it's not flattering to your candidate?

That's politics. Dean called Kerry and company in the washington establishment cockroaches. What goes around comes around.

[Renew Deal]

30. Some of those sources are banned on DU.

NY Post, Union Leader and the WaPo is a rag.

[mikehiggins]

95. If I print a quote from a newspaper that claims the holocaust

never happened, am I okay because I'm just printing something that was in the paper?

Of course, the only answer is its okay if the quote is honest and accurate.

This is the "old politics" that the "old politicians" excel at and that brought us to this precipice in the first place. There was a lot of negativity in Iowa and BAM! Kerry gets the lead.

Now, since that was clearly what should have been happening from the first, it's okay to fall back on the tried and true methods of the past dealing with New Hampshire. That's the way its done inside the Beltway. Nothing has changed.

[displacedtexan]

5. So, what's not true? The newspaper clips?

All candidates do this.

[mmonk]

6. It could be brought to

everyone's attention and made an issue on the campaign trail.

[Justice]

7. Kerry's Negative Campaigning Is Very Disappointing

So much for leadership.

Kerry was in Iowa saying you should campaign positively, while doing this.

Of course these are all quotes from public sources, but they are lifted out of articles which in some cases qualify or limit the statements.

[cthrumatrix]

9. didn' they say in Iowa they didn't like "negative".... let him blow it

if that's his mo...then that's the way he wants to be.

[jpgpenn]

74. Kerry will say anything

then do everything exactly opposite of what he preaches!

[OneTwentyoNine]

8. So what? Better buck up and get ready for the Repuks

If Kerry,Dean or anyone runs truthful ads showing why they should be the candidate over the other then who cares? Thats politics,if you can't stand the heat better really get out of the kitchen on this one.

Wait till the winner faces KKKarl Rover and his bag of shit tricks. The winner better be ready to take it and give it back at Bush in huge doses.

David

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. I can't speak for the Dean camp

But I bet they for the most part agree. I think the Clark camp has been well seasoned for the Fall, thank you, but the Republicans aren't the ones out there right now urging a positive campaign.

[For PaisAn]

16. Nonsense

Our candidates absolutely can run a positive campaign and still be ready for the shit Rove will attack with. This is should not and need not be a practice run where we end up damaging all our candidates and giving Rove plenty of material for free, material coming from one Democrat directed at another. It will be a bonanza for the repugs. Yes, they will use the same criticisms anyway but this is far, far worse. Let it come from their mouths, not ours. Imagine their ads going like this: "Even former Democratic candidate _________ said that Presidential Democratic candidate __________ is a __________ (here's where they provide a direct quote)". John Kerry should be able to run on his own record and platform and so should all the others.

[For PaisAn]

11. If true

Then wouldn't that make him and his campaign liars since he claims to be running a positive campaign? This really is beneath any of our candidates and I'm disgusted. This crap is what we've come to expect from the dark side.

[Democrats unite]

12. My choices have now changed...

1 Clark
2 Dean
3 Edwards
4 Lieberman
5 ...

[cthrumatrix]

13. clark has a right to be upset....the media / others are after him unfairly

[windansea]

14. pretty amatuerish flyers

remind me of high school prom king flyers

[Jerseycoa]

39. Tacky stuff

I was just reading this from the New Republic 1/23/04

ONE-TWO PUNCH: One backstory to the Kerry surge here in New Hampshire is that when he decamped to Iowa in December and placed all his chips on a strong showing there, he left behind in the Granite State a program of negative mail and attacks by surrogates, like ex-governor Jeanne Shaheen, to soften up Clark and Dean.

For example, here's a copy of one mail piece Kerry sent out recently. The message speaks for itself. Clark is a Republican and captive to special interests. Dean is unstable. None of this would have made much of a difference without the Iowa victory, but taken together it has proved to be an effective one-two punch.

[maddezmom]

15. unfortunately it's come down to politics as usual

anything to win. :(

[Kathleen04]

17. That type of campaigning is going

to backfire..

Wasn't Kerry paying attention to what Dean and Gephardt did to each other in Iowa?

The negative stuff turns people off..

[Jerseycoa]

80. I wonder now about that Osama ad

Gephardt took all the heat for.

[lastknowngood]

18. That's the least Kerry will do

you can bet he will be using negative push polls to spread disinformation about Dean and Clark in N.H. He is from the political school if you don't have what it takes destroy your opponent. That is what keeps many people from voting.

[cthrumatrix]

21. the politics of old.... people can make thier choice...

[KC21304]

32. I will take that bet. Show me the proof.

[TLM]

56. Kerry got caught push polling in Iowa...

remember... they had to blame it on one of their campaign staff and "fire" them?

[KC21304]

86. No I don't. Do you have a link ?

[mmonk]

20. Let him make his mistakes

[cthrumatrix]

26. why doesn't the media report on this for Gen Clark?

[Justice]

63. Because the Media Is Loving It

Much was made of Clark response to Dole and how insulting it was to Kerry.

The media is going to let Kerry win NH - and then bring these things out as if they didn't know.

Looks like they want the nominee to be weakened, no matter who it is.

[FreeperSlayer]

24. ABB!

[KC21304]

28. I suppose there is no chance these flyers are being distributed

by someone other than Kerry. I know that has NEVER happened before.

[KittyWampus]

29. NONE. Kerry Has An Entire Webpage Maligning Clark

and he and Edwards have been tagteaming the "Lobbyist" thing even though Kerry's biggest campaign contributors are Telecom Lobbyists even while he has voted against the Public Interest and FOR Telecom.

[For PaisAn]

41. link please

Went to his website but haven't been able to find the page where he maligns Clark. BTW, I'm a Clark supporter.

[bicentennial_baby]

49. Here you go!

http://www.johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0109c.html

[For PaisAn]

55. Thanks. As for Kerry

I just lost what little respect I had left for John Kerry. Clark has his financial and military records open on his website in his online reading room. I'd like to see Kerry do the same. Kerry's press realease about Clark doesn't include any backup links. Just trash and run, how lazy. I'll trust Clark's explanation on the lobbying issue over Kerry's, especially after this crap.

[Justice]

70. John Kerry Is My Senator But He Has Just Lost My Respect

[Zynx]

33. YEEEEEAAARRRGHHHH!!!! Dean and Clark supporters should unite against this.

This is disgusting. Shame on Kerry.

[bicentennial_baby]

34. Yep

Shame on my Senator :puke:

[Zynx]

38. Indeed. Puke on him.

This has to stop. Kerry is launching vicious attacks against two good men.

[meow mix]

35. i dont like kerry anymore

thats pretty lame stuff..
and so is anyone who would defend it ;p

[Jerseycoa]

40. We knew about the flyers

No major surprise there.

But this yesterday on Crossfire:

NOVAK: Senator Kerry, at last night's debate, General Clark was asked about a statement made in his presence by Michael Moore that President Bush is a -- was a deserter.

In the absence -- and General Clark said he didn't know anything about that, but he didn't know one way or the other.

KERRY: Yes.

NOVAK: In the absence of any -- any allegations to that effect, what do you think of calling the president of the United States a deserter? Or do you have some information that that is accurate?

KERRY: No, obviously, I don't. I think it's over-the-top language, Bob. And I think that's not what my campaign is about.

<snip>

BEGALA: He never showed up. It's certainly not desertion. But it's certainly not fulfillment of one's obligation. It was your hometown paper. I mean, you must be familiar with

(CROSSTALK)

KERRY: Paul, that's not -- that's not the ground I want to fight this campaign on.

Kerry is NOT going to stand against the barrage of right wing attacks on our party and our Democratic candidates. He caved yesterday and he'll cave tomorrow. Screw 'im.

[Rose Siding]

54. Isn't Kerry the one who brought this up in 2000?

Didn't he and Senator Inoye expose bush's Guard record a few weeks before the 2000 vote?

[Jerseycoa]

81. That was Bob Kerrey, not John Kerry

"The question is, where were you, Governor Bush?" said Senator Daniel Inouye, Democrat of Hawaii and a World War II veteran. "What would you do as commander-in-chief if someone in the National Guard did the same thing?" Inouye asked during a telephone address to supporters of Vice President Al Gore in Nashville yesterday.

Inouye joined several colleagues, Senators Bob Kerrey, Democrat of Nebraska, and Max Cleland, Democrat of Georgia, in raising harsh questions about Bush's role during the Vietnam War.

Source: The Washington Post, November 3, 2000

[Raya]

37. Comment Here Much Worse Than Kerry Flyers. What a Laugh!

[LittleDannySlowhorse]

42. Actually, in a funny turn of events

The quotes attributed to Dean in this one:



are all things he's said that are exactly why I'm voting for him.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

45. Look a lot like the Iowa flyers.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

43. This Really Pisses Me Off

Kerry came into this week on fire, he didn't need to go negative like this.

What bullshit. I hope his negative attacks get a lot of media coverage and lead to a backlash against him.

DTH

[Zomby Woof]

58. Stop and reflect for a moment, DTH

I doubt if these fliers were sanctioned by the campaign - they are too amateurish and cheesy. As we all know from DU, supporters can be overzealous and do things like this that reflect poorly on a campaign.

Remember last month that flap about Dean having negative fliers about Clark? Lots of Clark supporters (I don't recall your posts) were angry at Dean, and Dean supporters denied the campaign was behind them.

Much as I loathe Dean, I am willing to believe his campaign was undermined by overzeaous supporters (emboldened by Dean's then-frontrunning status) the same way the Kerry campaign (now the frontrunner) is being undermined by cheesy fliers like these.

Just some friendly advice, that comes from being a hardened veteran of this process. For now, judge each of the candidates by the actions and words of the actual candidates, and not due to the misguided ideas of a few overeager supporters.

It isn't easy, but give it some pause. :-)

[DoveTurnedHawk]

60. ZW, Dean's Campaign Admitted to Those Fliers Many Times

And yes, I was pissed off about those, too. Although that has receded a bit, god, it already feels like ancient history.

If they're being mass produced on a scale to be noticeable, I bet the fliers are Kerry's. I guess we'll see, but that's where my money's at.

I just don't think he needed to do this. Not at all.

DTH

[bicentennial_baby]

67. Well DTH, it sure looks that way (big pic)

"If they're being mass produced on a scale to be noticeable, I bet the fliers are Kerry's"



According to Kerry's website, that's his addy:

"New Hampshire Office
195 McGregor St., Center Entrance
Manchester, NH 03102"

http://www.johnkerry.com/contact/

[Zomby Woof]

72. the address is there

Because the campaign people want donations, and therefore, will provide the address.

I am not condoning the fliers, but cynically, accept it as part of the process.

I agree with DTH about them not being necessary. But the presence of the address does not make it official. I could print up my own negative fliers with DK's address, but that isn't my style, and not DK's either.

[David Zephyr]

88. Kerry & Edwards Both Running Underhanded Campaigns

The Party Establishment is working overtime to destroy Wes Clark and Howard Dean.

[Justice]

82. The Web Site Is John Kerry's

no pause needed.

He is responsible for his website.

[blm]

46. This is TYPICAL differentiation. Grow some skin if you want to be

part of the political arena.

Clark camp tweaks Kerry as a Washington insider, so Kerry tweaks back.

Hysterical reactions to normal differentiation techniques are just plain silly.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

51. And if they were Dean flyers?

Nevermind. Stupid question.

[blm]

75. Then I'd count the lies.

heh.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

91. Are you push-posting me?

heh

[incapsulated]

53. I disagree

"differentiation", as you put it, normally involves something along the lines of: "Mr. Opponent voted in favor of such-and-such, and I did not and here is why..." or more directly, "I'm this and he's not".

Putting photos of your opponents on a flyer with the "greatest hits against" underneath them is quite a different thing. It isn't straightfoward, it's not the candidate stating differences, it's taking a hit at your opponents without having a soundbite to own up to.

[blm]

76. And Clark's camp damns Kerry as a Washington insider. Big deal.

That's the way they play their cards. I don't get bent out of shape about it, and neither do Kerry or Clark. They expect this and so do their campaigns.

Anyone who doesn't should go somewhere other than a political board.

It's only lies that are of concern. No lies, no foul. Political arena. Love it or leave it.

[Zomby Woof]

59. true!

Thick skins are rarer than a Bush* press conference these days.

[incapsulated]

47. I think this will backlash on him

And you can thank Dean and his troubles for it.

Even people who hated Dean started to feel sorry for him last week. Democrats can only take so much of the media beating the daylights out of one of our own without eventually getting pissed off.

Kerry using this sort of tactic isn't going to play well with Dems right now, imho.

[TLM]

61. I hope you're right.... but Kerry was pulling this shit in Iowa too

and it seemed to help him there.

But Kerry can rest assured that he will not get my vote, even if he does manage to get the nomination.

I will now say that I will vote for Clark before I'll vote for Kerry.

I did not think that Kerry would drop below Clark on my "will not vote for him' list, but this pushed him over the edge.

[bicentennial_baby]

66. OMG!

I'm shocked TLM, seriously! :toast: May the best man win!

[Tatiana]

57. Well the flyer clearly shows Clark sucks as a lobbyist!

I mean, $90,000? Is that all??? We've got Cheney making millions off his relationship with Halliburton, and all Clark can manage to get is $90,000? What kind of Republican is he? He should be at the very least a millionaire by now.

That's it. I'm gonna have to vote for someone else.

Not.

Actually, I think the flyers will backfire. They only illustrate why supporters of Clark and Dean are voting for them.

[jpgpenn]

62. Kerry is a slimeball!!

Nothing else needs to be said! This creep will say and do anything for a vote!

[janx]

64. Didn't I read somewhere that Kerry was actually doing this

BEFORE Iowa--that these flyers were some that he left in NH before going to Iowa to campaign?

Also, did he use the flyers in Iowa as well?

I ask because that would mean that he has been up to some very negative campaigning, the kind of thing he supposedly decried, THE ENTIRE TIME!

Does anyone know the answers to my questions?

[bicentennial_baby]

65. That's what I heard

I've heard that these were circulating in NH during the run-up to Iowa.

[janx]

68. What a phoney! What a low-rent phoney!

If I knew of any legit media, I'd recommend sending these there--but right now, it's hard to trust any of them.

[jpgpenn]

71. so so true!

that is why people have to let as many others know as possible, be it word of mouth, write into newspapers etc.

[janx]

73. Check out messages #42 and #45!

He has been doing this tabloid, low-rent stuff THE WHOLE TIME!

Who can send this stuff to media? I think the Dean and Clark campaigns should make this known.

[Kipepeo]

97. Media

Send it to Buzzflash, Common Dreams, Alternet, American Politics Journal, and Morphizm.

Also to Pacific Radio

Kerry makes me sad.

[Jerseycoa]

78. OOps-Self-Deleted Dupe

[in_cog_ni_to]

77. Clark and Dean

need to take copies of...The Kerry anti-Dean flyers and anti-Clark flyers AND the John Edwards...backup plans for bashing the candidates...to the next debate. EXPOSE them. EXPOSE them ALL for what they really are. Embarrass the hell out of them on National TV and watch the poll #'s go down.

[For PaisAn]

79. They certainly should

take them to the next debate. "I'm running a positive campaign" my ass. They're liars.

[HuckleB]

83. So much for being "presidential."

Ugh. I can't believe how much respect I have lost for Kerry in the last 48 hours, er, really in the last 24. Dang.

[John_H]

85. If that's as good as the Kerry campaign can do, he's Rovey Tubby Toast

[magatte]

87. kick

:kick:

[AnnitaR]

89. I am not surprised at all by these flyers!

Kerry won Iowa by claiming he was running a clean campaign when the others weren't.

These kind of things happen in campaigns. However, Kerry is now trying to act like he has never engaged in these things and most people out there are buying into every word of it.

General Clark has NEVER engaged in anything remotely like what Kerry has done. That is what is so maddening about all of this!

[Loren645]

92. Well, Kerry certainly saved face in Iowa

Both of them.

[AnnitaR]

93. Ha! Thanks for the laugh!

I needed that tonight! :D

[oasis]

90. Run of the mill political campaign material. (n/t)

[DJcairo]

94. How about Dean's attacks???

Blaming Edwards and Kerry in teh debate for the deaths of US soldiers comes to mind.

[sleipnir]

96. Proving yet again that I will never vote for Kerry

Sorry, but he lost my vote long ago and continues to lose any support he might have gotten from me.