Kerry, "calling *Bush a deserter is over the top"

[jpgpenn]

You know it's funny how this guy will help defend *Bush but will not think twice about smearing a fellow Dem like Clark, mined you after calling Clark a friend. Kerry's message is that of a slimeball!

[BeatleBoot]

1. Ouch!

Slimeball?

How about, "President of the United States of America" or just, "44" will do.

:7


on edit: capitalization

[cavebat2000]

8. slimball

lol.. better say is MESSAGE is slimball. Wouldn't want to get the thread locked.

[jpgpenn]

17. edit done

Thanks

[FreeperSlayer]

2. HELLO! Being AWOL is not deserting.

Please, everyone, get the terms correct. AWOL and desertion are two entirely different things.

[sandnsea]

Thank you

I was having this argument with my husband last night. I remember somebody explaining the difference at some point and of course I forgot. Could you run through it please?

[baby_bear]

15. There is a difference

The definition of a deserter:
be absent without leave from the armed forces with no intention of returning.
(according to http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/80/d0158000.html)

Whereas absent without leave is:
Absent from one's assigned military post or duties without official permission
according to
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/60/a0026000.html

* did return for a couple of months before he went to business school. So I guess he was AWOL but not a deserter.

Let's call it what it is, but it appears to me that calling him AWOL is a legitimate claim.

s_m

[sandnsea]

19. Calling him a deserter is not

But at this point in his campaign, there's no reason to go there. He's smart enough to realize it. And he's smart enough to try to get Democrats to wake up and use the correct terms when they make statements against Bush. That's half our problem, we don't know how to argue the case on the facts, not wild unsubstantiated accusations that make us sound like crazed lunatics.

[Valjean]

28. Yes

Republicans have a big up on us in this category. They always use concrete facts to attack Democrats.

NOT!!!!!

I would agree that a candidate making a desertion accusation on Bush is a trap. Bush has a whole in his service record. He was credited with training he DID NOT do and finished up. He received an honorable discharge.

Bill Clinton was often accused on dancing on the head of a pin. He did not invent the art. The true masters are Republicans. We got burned on the whole "Bush never used the word 'imminent' thing". We will get burned on this as well.

The question must be phrased in the way of a challenge. The candidates must CHALLENGE Bush to reveal his hidden service record and account for his missing time to assure the public that he is an honorable man. He must come up with a reasonable explanation why he could not take a physical at a time when the military just started drug testing.

In this way, Republicans can't DENY anything. Because no accusation was made. Only a challenge to show Bush's "presumed" integrity and service to his country.

We already know that the press tried to sabotage Clark by getting him to either denounce or support Michael Moore's interpretation. It was a trap and very wisely dodged by Clark. Given this and their previous conduct, I don't think we can rely on the national news media to fully explore this story. Only 60 minutes seems to have the balls (or scandal mongering) to go after topics like this (windiness their Skull & Bones piece).

BTW, only someone who SERVED in the military can do this. It's hypocritical for someone WHO didn't serve to make demands of someone who DID (albeit in a deficient manner). So it has to be Clark or Kerry. I think I've made my view known about Kerry. so go Clark!!!!!

[windansea]

10. if you are AWOL over 30 days

you are considered a deserter...

[jpgpenn]

23. but WHY would Kerry defend the AWOL * and ...

then attack a fellow Dem with such underbelly slime?

[Pepperbelly]

It's merely a matter of how much ...

time and the intentions of the person who absents himself. Bonehead Bush was out for a year or better with no intention of fulfilling his service. Ordinarily it would be no skin off my nose but in this instance, Bush did indeed occupy a billet to elude the draft and possible SE Asian duty so he should have had the scruff to at least discharge THAT smaller committment.

[blm]

3. Isn't this a dupe?

.

[jpgpenn]

4. not that im aware of

I haven't seen 1 post showing Kerry defending Bush with this comment!:puke:

[Walt Starr]

5. To heck with Kerry

I wouldn't vote for that corporatist on a bet.

[poskonig]

9. Kerry is leading Bush 49%-46%.

Internet trash talking is meaningless. The good news is, SpaceShrub will be gone whether you like it or not.

:bounce:

[jpgpenn]

12. "trashtalking" is that what you call his own words?

[Walt Starr]

14. One corporatist is leading another corporatist 49% - 46%

The losers will be the American people as the Washingotn insider have their laughs at the expense of the people.

[poskonig]

21. If you think Kerry's policies = Bush's policies

you probably shouldn't be voting. :evilgrin:

[windansea]

22. seems like Kerry votes yes with Bush a lot

IWR
Patriot Act
NCLB

:evilgrin:

[poskonig]

30. I'm happy with Kerry's record.

He filibustered ANWR, hasn't voted for four Republican presidents, and is within the Democratic mainstream. All Democrats sans Feingold voted for the Patriot Act, and many voted for the IWR (which *Clark* supported) as well.

[windansea]

38. ok fine

but what's with the asteriks around Clark??

[NNN0LHI]

6. So what do you really think of Kerry? n/t

[Fleshdancer]

7. why is pointing out the obvious on Bush such a bad thing?

The man was nowhere to be found for an ENTIRE YEAR! Why can't we say this? What the hell? We can talk about Clinton's penis for 8 years, we can call Clinton a draft dodger for *gasp* going to school, and we can't call Bush on his crap?

And I can't be angry? Dean yelling at a pep rally is bad but to mention that someone did not show up for active duty for an ENTIRE YEAR is "over the top"???? I'm so close to just giving up. I'm living in some sort of twilight zone.

on edit: I don't give a crap about the technical meaning of "deserter" in military jargon. I'm a civilian therefore a deserter is someone who DOESN'T FUCKING SHOW UP in my book. We can split words all damn day but we all know what Bush did.

[cavebat2000]

11. I know its not looked well upon

But i sense a resurging of the term, "Bushlite"

[windansea]

13. gosh..didn't everyone here bash Clark

for not handling the MM question right??

at least he defended MM's freedon of speech and acknowledged the AWOL charge had been bandied about

guess Clark has a bigger set than JK

[Walt Starr]

16. Not me!

I sent a scathing email to Peter Jennings.

Kerry won't have my vote. I'll find a populist third party candidate if he gets the nomination because voting for one corporatist over another is no choice at all.

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

18. More leadership from Kerry!

I mean, leadership in defending and covering for his frat-brother Bush.

[windansea]

20. where are those Clark bashing debate threads

I wanna see who criticized or defended Clark response to MM question

[windansea]

39. anybody know?? n/t

[Valjean]

24. Smearing a Bonesman

Smearing a fellow Bonesman is apparently off limits. Can we really trust a Bonesman to attack another Bonesman on Bush's troubling deep personal hypocrisy and immorality?????

[Monte Carlo]

25. What are you talking about?

Are Kerry and Clark in a primary race for the Democratic nomination or not? They may respect each other, but that doesn't mean they're not going to take a few cheap shots at each other. It's really the way this game is played.

Prominently calling Bush a deserter is to invite a whole world of trouble, so it is not an action to be taken lightly. There is also a question of timing. So, what exactly is your point with this thread?

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. in_cog_ni_to, Kerry calling "Bush is a deserter"

"over the top"....is over the top! Kerry voted for the IWR and the Patriot Act. That is all I need to remember. For him to bash Clark shows NO character. None. Clark has been saying NOTHING but kind things about John Kerry and Kerry just turns around and slaps him in the face because he will say and do whatever it takes to win. Period. Kerry also thinks that taking on Saddam was "the right thing to do"...so what he says holds little merit with me.

Go Wes!

[PatrickS]

27. John Kerry = Joe Lieberman II

Sometimes I have a difficult time differentiating the two men.

[Monte Carlo]

31. Then you aren't paying enough attention.

If that's what you think, then you might need to broaded your horizons a bit.

[VirginiaIs4Lieberman]

32. John Kerry is no Joe Lieberman

Agree with him or not, stands up for what he believes. He does not flip flop and change positions for political gain. Kerry is a liar, Joe is not. The only honest candidates are Joe, Howard, and Dennis.

[dansolo]

40. I will agree with that

Joe is delusional, but he's honest. I still want him gone from the race as soon as possible.

[VirginiaIs4Lieberman]

46. Dean is my 2nd choice

If Joe is out by February 10 when Virginia votes, my support goes to Dean.

[Walt Starr]

33. They're both Corporatist Democrats, IMO

Both are sellouts, IMO.

Both vote in whatever way looks best for their political careers rather than what is best for the American people, IMO.

Little difference if you ask me.

[jpgpenn]

35. they are joined at the hip!

[Edge]

29. How is stating the obvious truth about Shrub

over the top? My gawd, he should be bashing Bush, not defending him. :grr:

[overground1]

34. "fellow Dem like Clark"?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. No surprise. That would be much "too liberal" and risky.

And, his DLC minders would be upset.

[dkf]

37. I was wondering why Drudge was going off on Kerry calling Bush a

deserter.

Must be because now he's flip flopped in order to attack Clark.

Pretty typical Kerry move.

Does the guy stand for anything?

[Walt Starr]

41. Move on, nothing to see here

Bush being a deserter is no big deal and saying anything about it is over the top.

Move on, no big deal that Bush stole the election.

Grrrrrr

:grr: :mad:
:grr: :mad:
:grr: :mad:
:grr: :mad:

No Kerry, no how, no way!

[w4rma]

42. Clark better watch his back. Kerry seems to have his daggers out. (n/t)

[bicentennial_baby]

44. Indeed he does

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=181828&mesg_id=181828

[quaker bill]

43. Like I have been saying, Kerry will keep the debate polite.

He will run a polite campaign, no shouting or anything that might seem "unPresidential". We will then vote. Then he will offer a polite concession speech.

Then things will go back to 'normal' and we will watch as Bush* runs the country into the ground and starts drafting our kids into military service.

[styersc]

45. Kerry should never sink himself to name calling and smears.

Thats up to others. He should soimply let his record be set against Bush's and let the voters choose the better man.

[edzontar]

47. I am ashamed of Kerry--again....

Bush was a deserter or AWOL at the very least, and it was CORRECT of Clark NOT to apologize for Moore's comments.

Kerry looks worse and worse every day.

It will be hard for me to pull the lever for him this fall--assuming he gets the nod--if he keeps slinging this sort of Repuke bullshit.

[newyawker99]

48. Locking....

2. Criticism of Democratic primary candidates, their policy positions, and their campaigns is permitted. However, extreme and inflammatory attacks against Democratic primary candidates are not permitted. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether an attack is extreme and inflammatory. Inappropriate attacks include, but are not limited to, the following: Attacks involving swear words, long strings of negative words, comparisons to Hitler or Bush, unflattering graphics, etc.



DU Moderator