I'm torn about maybe joining the Green party...

[phattyt]

The moment I turned 18 I registered as a Democrat. Today, I am only 21, and I still am a member of the Democratic party. Over the past three years, however, I have definitely gained some new perspective and strengthened many of my convictions. I no longer just generally know what I believe but rather I distinctly know. I still believe in much of what the Democratic party stands for, and in almost all likelihood will continue to vote for them since they have the best chance of beating the Repugs, but I almost feel obligated as a politically motivated person to at least join the group that best fits my particular beliefs. I am incredibly liberal on social issues and find myself leaning very liberal on most business issues (e.g. anti-NAFTA, anti-big corporation, etc). I guess I am just trying to figure out exactly where I stand in the grand scheme of political affiliation (although it ultimately probably doesn't matter what party I am in) but at the same time I am finding it difficult to leave the Democratic party (at least in affiliation), especially since I know they are the world's best chance at protecting us from the idiocy and hate-mongering of the neo-Repugs.

[FreedomAngel82]

1. Something I wonder

Can't you be a member of both parties and support both members?

[phattyt]

8. I understand...

and I did say that I would almost 100% of the time vote for the Democrat since they obviously have the best chance against the Repugs. Perhaps you guys are right...it is all well and good to want to niche yourself to exactly what you believe but you have to look at the grand scheme and my loyalties to the Democrats would most likely great further my personal line of beliefs than if I changed to a Green. Maybe I should do more to try and push my local Democratic community to the left. I live in Oregon and while the majority of the dems aren't conservative by any means they definitely run closer to the center/right than I think they should.

[Sub Atomic]

18. i'm currently registered as a democrat

but in my lifetime i've also been a registered republican and a registered independent.

it's rare that i vote along party lines. i vote for ideology more than anything.

personally, i'd like to see the libertarian party become a larger force in the american political system as well as the green party.

i think it would make it a much better place to live if a more diverse voice had their say in politics. the way it is now, both parties hands are in the cookie jar. their "base" :eyes: is whom they cater to, regardless of the party.

[genius]

21. The problem with the Green Party is that its too small to win a large race

A lot of us are trying to fix the Democratic Party but I'm beginning to believe it's hopeless. The only way an independent candidate could win (outside of Sanders, a Socialist in a small state) is if we obliterate the two-party structure. There are only two possibilities for doing this. One is through instant run-off voting. This would allow a Green , Peace & Freedom or other candidate to actually win. The other is to convince the masses they can revolt and win. We could do this by getting a popular Democrat to join with a popular Republican and calling for an open rebellion against the two-party system. If the later were to happen, I would recommend a Kucinich-Paul ticket. By telling the truth about the catering of the two parties to corporations and to the right wing religious nuts, Kucinich might be able to pull in most Democrats and Paul might be able to pull in the non-extremist Republicans. The reason I would suggest Kucinich (whose voting record if flawless) at the top of the ticket is that Paul is NOT good on social issues (health care, education, etc). However, Paul usually is one of the first persons to sound the alert on bills attacking our Constitional Rights and, because of this, he'll back Dennis in throwing out the Patriot Act. These two individuals are known for acting on conscience. Once the masses rebel, the parties will have to change or it will be popular to forget them.

[Erika]

2. Go with your conscience

and remember the Greens gave Bush the WH in 2000.

[halobeam]

37. I thought it was the supreme court who gave the WH to Bush in 2000?

[Radical Activist]

3. You can spend your time whining about how unfair the system is

for third parties, or you can win some elections. Your choice.

A liberal with the exact same views as Ralph Nader has a 1000 times better chance getting elected to office as a Democrat than as a Green. Moving your local Democratic Party to the left is also likely to be easier than building a strong Green party that could challenge the other two.

[norml]

4. Don't do it! You can be Green in your politics, while being pragmatic

in your voting, and loyal in your support of the Democratic Party. Don't throw your vote, or your support away. Use your voice to Green the Party instead.

[morgan2]

5. Do it, even if you vote democrat

the only reason for being a dem is to vote in democratic primaries. The more people registered as a Green, the more the Democratic party has to give their point of view weight.

[paulk]

19. I don't understand that reasoning

you've got a much better chance of influencing the Democratic Party if you're a member of it. Why would the Democrats pay attention to the Greens? The Green Party has cost the Democrats a presidential race and at least one Congressional race (CO7 in 2002). The Democrats are far more likely to write the Greens off and move toward the center.

[Tesha]

27. Nonsense. The only thing that influences the Democratic Party are cheques.

> You've got a much better chance of influencing the Democratic Party if you're a member of it.

Nonsense. The only thing that influences the Democratic Party
are cheques with lots of zeroes in the numbers. Without that,
the only time they want to hear from you is when you go to vote
on election day.

Tesha

[MaineDem]

36. I disagree

Cheques???

An individual is able to influence the Party from being involved in it. Maybe you haven't experienced that but working from within is a process that's worked for many many years. Not always well but it's having an impact.

I hope that the policies of the current Party officials will change your cynical attitude. I know they're working at it.

[snowbear]

6. Ah heck.. you don't want to leave us...

:grouphug: We're family!

But hey.. if you feel the need to change your affiliation :shrug: ..no one here would ever hold it against you.

Follow your heart! ~~ :hug: We'll still be here for you.

[jobycom]

7. My three thoughts on it, based on what you said.

First, if you feel you belong in the Green Party, maybe you do. I like that you said you would keep voting fo the candidate with the best chance to win, that being the Democrat (usually), but don't work for soemthing you don't believe in.

Two, the Democratic Party has a wide membership, including far lefties like Kucininch, Doggett, Jackson, etc. So if you stay in the party, there's no reason you couldn't help steer it, or maybe anchor it, to the far left. There are regional differences, too. I know the Democrats in Austin are very liberal, so the Green Party has little hold here. In other parts of Texas the Democrats are very moderate to right, and the Greens are stronger there.

Third, don't worry about labels. A lot of people pick a party based on a few beliefs, and then decide they have to align the rest of their beliefs--especially on issues they haven't really thought much about yet--with the party they associate with. Try to avoid that, try to figure out what you really believe on your own. I'm pretty left, but there are a couple of big issues I disagree with the left on (NAFTA being one) because of my education and experiences. Knowing that you believe what you do because you've worked it out, rather than simply accepted what someone else has told you, gives you more confidence in your beliefs, and makes you feel better about yourself.

That's my opinion on the matter. I'm 40. I've been where you are, I took my path. Good luck on yours.

[zulchzulu]

9. I was a Green in my early 20's...

It was fun. Then I had to grow up and realize that the Greens are never going anywhere in America as a viable third party.

Fun people though...

[eridani]

10. Former Green checking in

I joined the Dems formally in 2003 as a result of the Kucinich campaign, and decided to stay when I realized that the Dems have PCOs and the Greens don't.

[LittleClarkie]

15. D'oh?

What's a PCO, if you would be so kind?

[eridani]

23. Precinct Committee Officer

Smallest elected political office, usually uncontested. Responsible for canvassing precinct during election years.

[PassingFair]

11. Dear Phatty...

Take a gander up the threads and check out the speeches of the progressives today

www.ourFuture.org

If Howard Dean does not hit all the right notes, then go green.

I believe that he is steering our ship into the winds of change.

[fujiyama]

12. Stay

At times it will be frustrating, but remember there are other Dems (in fact many) that share your beliefs and concerns.

The green party is very unlikely to become a viable third party anytime soon and especially on the national level. They may win some local races here and there and I wish them success in that, but otherwise their influence on politics is negligible.

Also being registered as a Dem will allow you to vote in Dem party primaries, where your influence really is (though in some states you can be registered independant as well).

[burrowowl]

13. Go ahead!

Campaign at local level to get Greens into office, like: city council, school board, etc.
However, if your state doesn't have open primaries, you can switch to Dem and then back to vote in primaries. Think strategic and tactical,

[AP]

14. Just have the courage to vote for most liberal person who can win.

[FrenchieCat]

16. If you're torn....don't do it.

Wait till you are sure.

I think that once you participate in the 2006 election....that will most likely tell you all you need to know.

[welshTerrier2]

17. let's be honest here ...

the establishment currently in control of the Democratic Party doesn't give a damn about the Party's progressives ... if we want power we're going to have to take power ... until we're more organized, the Party elites don't care what you do ...

whether you remain a Democrat and try to change things from the inside, leave and try to change things from the outside, or do some of both is the million dollar question ... there is no one right answer ...

frankly, i think your party affiliation is far less important than fighting for the things you believe in ... pick your issues, get involved, and do what you can ...

i'm currently a Democrat; don't ask me why ...

[genius]

22. That pretty much about says it.

Though, the Republican Party can be counted on to always oppose freedom and everything that's good. Once in a while the Democrats do something good. People like Dennis give me faith that things can change for the better.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

20. I have been green since Clinton signed the welfare deform bill

You all can be as moderate as you want but until someone in high office actually starts representing the people of the United States instead of the corporations of the United States, I choose to abstain! If the Dems ever grow balls, call me.

[Disturbed]

24. Greens gave Bush the WH in 2000.

BULLSHIT!!!

Gore, the Dems that voted for Bush, the Rethugs in Fla. and the SC were responsible for Gore not being Pres.

Until Amerika changes the party system it will always be a choice between the lesser of two evils.

If all progressives in the Dem party that are unhappy with the Dem party joined the Green Pary then the Greens could obtain Congressional seats.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

31. Oh puleeeeeeeze!

If the Dems had any balls and knew how to run a campaign (I offer you a pathetic Kerry campaign) It should not take more than a few brain cells to defeat the chimpmonkey! If you can't even do that you deserve to lose! Don't try to blame the Greens, take some personal responsibility and accept the fact that you guys suck! If and when the dems ever develop a platform that rises above bush light, maybe you can get people to vote for your candidates. Until then, don't ask me to compromise because you have sold out to corporate Amerika.

Bud

[GRLMGC]

34. Uh, he didn't blame the Greens

try reading his post

[OffWithTheirHeads]

38. Oooops,

Sorry! So used to hearing that Greens Gave it to shitforbrains that I shot first, asked questions later. I humbly apologize

[Mark E. Smith]

25. Anything that divides the anti-NeoCon vote ...

... is morally wrong.

You can be Green in your actions but pragmatic with your vote. Remember, Bush won in 2000 because the anti-reactionary vote was divided. The effect this has had on Green issues since then can only be described as devastating.

[sendero]

26. I understand...

... how you feel. I'm a lot closer to a Green than to a typical Dem. But I'm not going to waste my vote on a candidate with no chance of winning, except to make a symbolic point in a case where the Dem could not possibly win.

I don't think there is anything wrong with belonging to the party you feel best represents you, if you are still careful with your votes.

For that matter, you can be a member of the Green party, and still offer the bulk of your financial support to Dems.

Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me :) If the Greens every reach a critical mass of membership, it will send a message.

[deutsey]

28. I recently registered as a Green

I like the grassroots activism of the Greens and the way they unabashedly espouse my values and interests. I'm very interested in participating in and building a movement, not a political machine. I know political party machines are important, but I think the Democrats as a party have lost connection with my progressive values and economic interests; and too often it seems that Democrats as party members put too much faith in the party machinary and not enough in their own power as citizens to organize and create our own power blocs.

Until the Greens have a viable national party, though, I will vote for progressive Democrats for the presidency and most probably Congress.

By the way, I registered as a Dem when I was old enough to vote in '84 and have volunteered in local and national Democratic politics. However, I'm an oldstyle progressive democrat (small d) who felt increasingly alienated from the Democratic Party, which is why I am now a Green. I know there is now the PDA, which is promising, but I still feel more at home now with the Greens

[blondeatlast]

29. My friend, it's entirely your decision. I won't attempt to sway you

either way.

The only time it may matter is the primaries, as you are already aware.

I find it curious that you want the input of others regarding your decision, but what do I know?

[randr]

30. Think and Act Green

Then encourage, by all possible means, your Democratic candidate to adopt your views.
You need a player on the team in order to play the game!

[cmd]

39. great advice

I concur.

[Czolgosz]

32. The Green Party platform is a beautiful thing

When I read the Green Party platform <http://www.gp.org/platform/2004/>, I ask "why aren't we ALL Green Party members?" My views are left of the Democratic Party's and, in some areas, left of the Green Party's. So why am I a Democrat? Because we don't have a parliamentary system of government. Instead, we have a system of government which virtually requires that we have only two party choices. You can vote Libertarian, Green, Natural Law, or whatever you want, but our system is rigged against a third party's success (regardless of whether the third party is left or right). Maybe some day another party will arise, but it would mean the death of either the Democratic or Republican party. Maybe it's time for a third party, and maybe it's time for the Democratic Party to die (sometimes when I see Democrats voting against my core values I start to wonder). But I don't think so. It's not time to leave the Democratic Party for another progressive party because there are too many people who need the Democratic Party. There are too many rapatious corporations who would disenfranchise and disempower American workers if not for the Democratic Party. There are too many children who would be taught creation science in an underfunded school if not for the Democratic Party. There are too many sick people who would die from the lack of adequate and attainable health care (not to mention the greater health risk from increased air and water pollutants) if not for the Democratic Party. There is too much poverty, too much war, too much greed, and too much intolerance to leave the Democratic Party now.

Please read the Green Party platform because it's a beautiful ideal. And, unfortunately, the Democratic Party will not deliver the entire Green Party platform, but they'll deliver a hell of a lot more of it than you'll ever get from Bush, or Frist, or DeLay, or Scalia. When you read the Green party platform, ask yourself "would the Democrats or the Republicans go along with this?" I think you'll find that the Green Party platform is completely consistent with the progressive end of the Democratic Party and, more significantly, the Green Party platform is a list of 1,000 reasonable ideas that Bush would reject out of hand with a derisive laugh. The Green Party is the anti-Republican Party. Most Democrats would like to see as much of Green Party platform passed as can be achieved in our current system which is rigged against a third party. We can't do it without your vote.

[carpetbagger]

33. What would you hope to accomplish with the Greens?

That is the important question. Do you really want to go door-to-door trying to convince people to vote Green for president? Do you want to try to convince them to vote Green in Gordon Smith's next race?

I would suggest two alternatives. One is to find some progressives to work for in the next state elections. A majority republican lower house should not be.

The other is to pick that which is closest to your heart. If it's global corporate issues, by all means go out and find some organization that works on bills and initiatives to limit the power of corporations.

My suggestion is to join Public Citizen. It's what Nader and the Greens used to do before they drank the Kool Aid.

[phattyt]

35. Thanks for the feedback...

I think it is important for people to recognize that even if I did join the Green Party (which I have decided against, now) I would have voted for whomever was the most liberal of all the candidates, whom I felt had a chance to win. 99% of the time that would have been the Democrat.

When I was thinking about switching to the Green Party it was because I thought it was important to at least affiliate myself with a party that very accurately represents my beliefs, as opposed to a party (like the Democrats) that represent many of my beliefs but differ a bit in other ways (not to mention I am a bit frustrated with the current Dem leadership). In the end, however, I decided that by sticking around as a Democrat not only could I vote in the primaries (I live in Oregon, which requires you to be either Repug or Dem to vote in the primaries) but I could also do some work inside the party to help sway how it operates, at least at the local level.

Some people I know were wondering why I chose to share my thoughts with you guys, which is understandable since party affiliation and its choice is a rather personal issue. My response to that is that I wanted some input from you guys to aid my decision, from a standpoint of either experience or ideas that I just plain didn't think of. Along the way I saw people talk about their personal perspective and also saw a few ways that I could stay a Democrat but help move the party in a fashion that I felt more closely associated with. Thanks for the input. I really appreciate your thoughts on the issue.

[Czolgosz]

42. Glad to hear it. If great Democrats like you leave, the party will only

drift rightward toward the Republicanlite version of the party that seems so gutless. We need you to anchor the party where it belongs: as the party of the people (not the corporations' party), the party of the whole earth (not just the party of the earth's oil, gas, and coal reserves), the party of religious tolerance (not the born-again-protestants-only party), the party of inclusion (not just the white heterosexual males and the stay-at-home mommies who love them party), and the individual rights party (not the party of the Patriot Act and the interminable detention of children at Gitmo without trial or charge).

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[welshTerrier2]

41. why not stop wasting our time with fake replies ???

and make a real response ...

also, you might want to consider the possibility that those who make the rules that make this a very well administered website might not appreciate your observation ... just a thought ...

[Czolgosz]

43. Also, I thought fake replies were traditionally launched in the lounge ...