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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:25 AM
Original message
PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THE OUT-OF-CONTEXT QUOTE.
I've mentioned this in the innards of various threads, but it's very important for people to pay attention to lazy mass media journalists who have no better way to play the "gotcha" game than to use a quote cited out of context.

It's a favorite ploy they like to use with our chairman now, since he uses such colorful language and expression. They'll cherry-pick part of something he said and present it as if it stood alone; if that isn't bad enough, they'll then present it *to other Dems* that way in order to corner them and get some kind of defensive reaction.

Also, please pay attention to sources--or more often, lack of--that journalists use. "Sources say" doesn't cut it. And if allegations are made and no sources are mentioned at all, please make note of it.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
1. EXCELLENT point to remember, janx - these people are playing psy-ops...
...games with us, and wayyy too many of us fall for their psychological traps. Pretty soon we're acting like little branch offices of the Republicon PR department.

Please think things through before passing on twaddle that divides our party!! If that's the message, then there's an excellent chance you're playing messenger for Karl Rove.

NGU.




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BleedingHeartPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
2. In the film "Outfoxed" the framing was"some people say"
Not even citing a source, just "some would say". That allows the introduction of opinion and spin, without any accountability. MKJ
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I have yet to see that and would like to.
Do you know if it's available on DVD yet?
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Right here:
http://www.outfoxed.org/

Buy two, and donate one to your public library.

NGU.


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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Thanks! n/t
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XemaSab Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Some people say
George Bush sucks goats.

Source? I saw it written on the seawall in Bolinas, CA back in 1992.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
3. NOMINATED!! This is a thread MANY more people need to see.
Excellent and very important point, Janx. We ought to populate this thread with as many examples as we can think of.

:toast:
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PsyOpsRunsOurCountry Donating Member (78 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. ENTIRE stories aren't put into context. Look at Ward Churchill>DeepThroat>
It's very important to the US government to hide the fact that it controls the corporate media and kills political opponents, especially while trying to maintain a permanent oil-war 'against terrorism.' Patsies, distractions, and cover stories by the Washington Post’s Bob Woodward are at the center of this ongoing crime with the body count skyrocketing in Iraq and Americans becoming unsettled by it all.


The public crucifixion of Ward Churchill is really using black propaganda against an anti-war activist and whistle-blower in order to:
1) Keep another anti-war movement from forming.
2) Protect Bob Woodward’s cover as an intelligence operative at the Washington Post.
3) Reinforce the CIA’s biggest cover story-‘the liberal media.’
4) Prevent revealing Deep Throat's role in the terrorism against the anti-war movement carried out by the FBI back in the 50s, 60s and 70s.
5) Prevent all of this from making people notice that Patriot Act II is about to quietly go ‘in to law’ to give the FBI search powers worse than the old COINTELPRO.
6) Keep the ‘Global War on Terror’ cover story going to hide permanent oil war.


And all with the help of WP editor Bob Woodward, a White House/CIA shill just like the infamous ‘Jeff Gannon’ discovered earlier this year.
THE SIXTIES MUST NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN AGAIN DESPITE THE INTERNET.
So truth tellers must be neutralized with chilling smears or 'driven to suicide' to prevent anti-war movements from coalescing into strong resistance by high school and college kids the Pentagon is desperate to get its hands on.
(Both Hunter Thompson and Gary Webb are gone? Damn. You have to wonder…)

To prevent people from looking at American political terrorism, they are smearing one of the most outspoken activists and authors who wrote about US law-enforcement's home-cooked terrorism against their own citizens which continues today with Patriot II about to sneak under the wire and give the FBI power to do anything it wants to the Ward Churchill’s among us.

Here's just one of Churchill's books on COINTELPRO:

http://www.southendpress.org/books/Cointelpro2.shtml

>snip<

"The COINTELPRO Papers, Updated Edition
Documents from the FBI's Secret Wars Against Dissent in the United States
by Ward Churchill and Jim Vander Wall

Readers anxious about the loss of civil liberties under George W. Bush will find ground for their fears-and suggestions for activism-in The COINTELPRO Papers. Ward Churchill and Jim Vander Wall's exposé of America's political police force, the FBI, reveals the iron fist hiding beneath the velvet glove of "compassionate conservatism."

Reproducing many original FBI memos, the authors provide extensive analysis of the agency's treatment of the left, from the Communist Party in the 1950s to the Central America solidarity movement in the 1980s. Ward Churchill's substantial new preface to this South End Press Classics edition updates the cases of several incarcerated Black Panthers and analyzes the events at Ruby Ridge and Waco, as well as the wars on drugs and terrorism. Churchill makes a compelling argument that U.S. law enforcement has become thoroughly militarized, with devastating consequences for all those who work for social justice."


http://www.alternativeradio.org/programs/CHUW001.shtml
Ward Churchill is one of the leading activists and whistle-blowers against US government abuse of its own citizens by the FBI called COINTELPRO, at its worst during the Vietnam War.

http://agitprop.org.au/stopnato/20000318mediaoverb.php
The CIA control of the media, called Operation Mockingbird, is being used at the Rocky Mountain News to DEFLECT ATTENTION away from FBI/CIA TERRORISM AGAINST THE AMERICAN LEFT in the 60s and 70s called COINTELPRO (counter-intelligence program) which Churchill was a victim of and wrote about at length.

http://www.class.uidaho.edu/mickelsen/Media%20Readings/Berstein%20-%20CIA%20and%20the%20Media.htm
(Here's some of Carl Bernstein's 1977 article on Operation Mockingbird picking up where the 1975 Church Committee hearings on CIA abuses left off. Interestingly, Bernstein steers attention away from his own Washington Post where he and Bob Woodward wrote about Watergate. This is long before Murdoch Faux News disinformation channel.)

http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm
91 year-old Mark Felt, the Watergate mystery source called Deep Throat revealed this week by his own family, was the #2 FBI official under J. Edgar Hoover when they were MURDERING and terrorizing the anti-Vietnam War activists and leaders like Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, Robert Kennedy, and dozens of Black Panthers. They murdered 21 year-old Fred Hampton IN HIS SLEEP and many innocent Black Panthers are still in jail 30 years later.

http://test.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/536364.html
The smear campaign against Churchill was renewed early in 2005 when the CIA was forced to release documents showing they collaborated with Nazi Adolph Eichmann's assistants after WWII. The CIA was formed in 1946 using many Nazi war criminals as intelligence assets along with Mafia

http://www.nhgazette.com/cgi-bin/NHGstore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=NN_Bush_Nazi_2
The internet knows that W's grandpa Prescott financed Hitler so hiding the Bush-Nazi link is harder than ever now.

http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB146/index.htm
So the CIA dug up a Ward Churchill essay on 9/11 with the key word 'Eichmann' in it and turned the dogs of Fox News loose on him as a pre-emptive distraction using all the emotional charge of 9/11 against 'leftists who hate America.'

This was also a propaganda preparation for this week's long-awaited announcement of Deep Throat's identity which was being arranged for several months by a SF lawyer's negotiations with Esquire Magazine and therefore known to the CIA. (They know everything including that I'm writing this and you are reading it. Thanks, Admiral Poindexter!)

http://www.webcom.com/ctka/pr196-woodward.html
WP Editor Bob Woodward of Watergate fame is also an intelligence operative so he would have known not just Deep Throat’s identity but that Deep Throat's involvement with COINTELPRO would surface soon, too.

(Read the bottom side-bar at that url about the problems of Woodward's account of how he would signal Deep Throat. Woodward's 6/2/05 article about how he met Deep Throat devotes lots of words to trying to explain exactly the inconsistencies outlined in this 1996 online article. Woodward knows his cover is thin. Both he and Felt screwed Americans with lies. Woodward still does at the Washington Post.)

Ward Churchill was prepared to be grilled like a marinated steak by the wolves of CIA propaganda to give the 'Mockingbird' press red meat to peck at. Native American red meat, that is. All to hide elimination of the Bill of Rights and hide American war crimes in a massive disinformation system called ‘corporate media.’

This all allows the Nazi-Bush Crime Family to wipe out Fallujah as if it were the Warsaw Jewish Ghetto and allow the Washington Post to cover it up to assist the Permanent Oil War campaign in progress.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #11
32. Great quote by Orwell and
thanks for your info on PsyOps!

Welcome to DU, PsyOpsRunsOurCountry!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
31. Thanks for reminding me..
I nominated, too~

:toast:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks--I see this all too often at DU and am always
surprised when DUers take the bait.
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Unfortunately, it's sometimes tempting to take the bait
if it fits into your narrow agenda. It's one of the faults of human nature. The media know that and know how to get people riled. It's almost as if the bulk of our national media have adopted Rush Limbaugh tactics for a gain in the market share.
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Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Lakoff on Washington Journal spoke to this...
Said the whole recent article in USA Today (?) was filled with stuff taken out of context. See the whole interview here...

http://www.dembloggers.com/main/2
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Thanks for that link, Viva_La_Revolution
I liked this comment by one of the bloggers..

"GOOD JOB HOWARD and keep on pissing off the righties it makes me laugh when he throws the truth at then and they cry like little babies..."
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kick
..to Biden's empty head :kick:
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JRob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
7. kick
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
12. so true.. but also pay attention to the "out of context" excuse...
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 12:56 PM by wyldwolf
When someone says something really stupid and is called on it, they will often say, "that was taken out of context." But when the quote is placed into it's context, the meaning of the quote still doesn't change. But declaring that it was "taken out of context" distracts enough people or provides the excuse needed to dilute what was said.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. That's easy to spot. It usually comes from the mouths of...
...the Bush** Administration.

NGU.


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. well.. I see it here all the time
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. All the time?
Then it should be easy for you to post some links, huh?

NGU.


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. yep
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 02:13 PM by wyldwolf
From one thread, for example:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1829484&mesg_id=1829498
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1829484&mesg_id=1829553
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1829484&mesg_id=1829673

then...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1828053&mesg_id=1828189

No matter if you just read the quote or in the full context, Dean said what he said.

He clarified it later, but he still said what he said no matter if the quote is in context or standing alone.

In fact, whenever there is a dust up between candidate supporters over what one has said, the tired old "taken out of context" pops up.

Maybe they mean "that wasn't what ______ meant." But that is totally different than claiming something is out of context. No one can be sure what ____________ meant until such a time it is clarified, and until that point the quote stands.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. How Clintonian of you.
<LOL>

NGU.


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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
35. nevertheless factually true
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 03:21 PM by wyldwolf
LOL!

You ask for links, I gave them. You give an ad hominem. If what I've done is "Clintonian," what you've done resembles the tactics of those who were out to hang Clinton.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. "You're ugly, and I like you "..
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:22 PM by SoCalDem
Take either part of the sentence or the whole....

No matter the "context", the meanings are the same.

Instead of context, they have tweaked us again. They are expert at "re-arranging" sentences to say what they want. They are 'anagramists':)
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cestpaspossible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. The clue is when someone complains that
they were 'quoted out of context' but doesn't follow up by showing the context.

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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
26. Exactly.
Unfortunately, by that time, it's a little late. There might be some attempt on the part of the Dems to refuse to answer questions like that if context is not provided.
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Proud_Lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. The question always nagging at me
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 01:20 PM by Proud_Lefty
Dean makes a speech and if you listen to it, it's real clear what he's saying. His mind is fast moving and sometimes his phrases come out a little awkward, but the intent is perfectly clear. Through the rightwing political machine, the media focuses in on those awkward phrases, edits them out by themselves, and asks him to explain himself, over and over and over again. Why doesn't the media understand the intent of a straight forward speech? Everyone who heard it understands. How many times does Dean have to go on these shows and explain the same thing before they get it? Why don't people ask the media why they're so dense? Are they that stupid that they have to hear it six times before it will become truth? Oh yeah, that's the way Bush's world works!
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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. They're not dense. They do it purposely.
Getting people riled hikes media ratings.
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Proud_Lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Of course it's on purpose
Not just for ratings, but mostly to deface someone who has the audacity to speak the truth, just like they did with Michael Moore. I'm asking why can't the Democrats respond to them with a hint of, "How many times till you get it, Tweety?" Throw it back at them and put them on the defensive for a change.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. Actually mostly to forward a corporate agenda.
NGU.


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janx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 02:44 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. Dean, after he was elected chair,answered a reporter
immediately with: "I don't respond to unsourced quotes."

Yes, people shouldn't let the media get away with cornering Dems in order to get them to respond to unsourced or cherry-picked quotes.

I don't understand it either.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 06:53 PM
Response to Original message
28. ...
:kick:
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
29. Thanks....Remember how they started this with Gore and then kept going
through the mid-terms with McKinney and others through the whole Dem Primaries where most candidates were taken "out of context" then went into "overdrive" with Kerry and haven't let up since.

It's hard to keep after them but we can't allow our own Dem's in Power to not check the quotes before they speak, either. If we have learned how the press deals with Dems then shoudn't seasoned Dems like Biden be wise to this?

I'll give a pass to Edwards only a four year Senator because he isn't seasoned but should know better coming off 04 slection, but Biden and others just follow the MSM it seems when it comes to quotes about others than themselves. They play right into the Media's hand and we are left to sort it all out for them.

Not the way it should be :shrug:
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:32 PM
Response to Original message
30. Dean knows this..
Remember when he told judy how he wouldn't respond to ..some people say quotes.. and he doesn't say in public what he should say privately to a Dem, i.e. if a reporter asks Dean about what he would tell Senator John Kerry to do in a certain situation..Dean says something like; I'll speak to Senator Kerry about that in private.

Why don't the dems who the reporters trapped learn to do that?

Senator Dodd mangaged..I don't have a link. A DUer heard Dodd say he didn't have a problem with what Dean said after the biden snarf.
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ultraist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
34.  It is the MSM that once again is trying to pit Dems against eachother
Let's not buy into their bogus spin. Great point janx!

Dean and Edwards will be appearing TOGETHER at a fundraiser next week or so. I wont be surprised if they take that opportunity to show the MSM that they do INDEED support one another.

We shouldn't let the MSM tear our party apart. We know that we can endure some disagreement without breaking, UNLIKE the lockstep brownshirt Republicans who have to refer to their talking points memos or be OSTRACIZED. We allow open dialog in our party!
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