Post here if you like Dean AND Edwards!

[Pushed To The Left]

Personally, I like them both! I think Edwards could have handled things better, and Dean may have said some inflammatory things. That doesn't mean we have to start disliking one of both of them! Didn't the 2004 primaries end quite some time ago? I suspect that the media is blowing this up to more than it is.

There is nothing wrong with criticizing Democrats who say or do something that you don't agree with. I've done it here many times. However, this Dean vs. Edwards DU battle reminds me of a "circular firing squad". I want everybody involved in the Dean vs. Edwards feud to imagine Karl Rove, Sean Hannity, George W. Bush, and Rush Limbaugh with their pants down pleasuring themselves to your posts. That is exactly the reaction they would have!

[Arkana]

1. Yes, people, it is possible to like *gasp* BOTH Dean and Edwards!

[katinmn]

2. I'd rather rage at the crappy reporting. what useful purpose did it

serve? Did you notice it ran without a byline? Some editor probably doctored an original report.

Taking quotes out of context and building a story around it. Creating controversy. That's more evidence of our sick media.

Why don't they write about REAL issues?

[UrbScotty]

3. Here!

:-)

[Clark2008]

4. In all honesty, the reason I posted the very first thread on this

"controversy" is because so many Dean supporters switched to Edwards after it was clear Dean wasn't going to win.

I'm not an Edwards fan, but I was curious as to what the supporters of both these men were saying.

[spooky3]

24. but didn't the OP ask for posts from people who LIKE BOTH?

[Clark2008]

38. And, it's an open board.

I can post where ever I want.

I was merely pointing out that I was flamed for asking the supporters of both these men what they thought of the situation since so many Dean supporters ended up supporting Edwards.

[PurityOfEssence]

45. No, you called people out and deliberately incited strife

The thrust of your thread that addressed Edwards and Dean supporters by name was basically "okay you schmucks who like these idiots, defend yourselves". The intent was deliberate and completely transparent. By the very action of "calling out" a group of people, the mods should have shut down the thread right then and there.

Yes, you, someone else or two someones used the moderators' time to get two of my posts deleted, and another flame-baiting thread was started on top of it. Since two goading anti-Edwards threads started by avowed Clark partisans wasn't enough, a third had to be started by someone of unknown affiliation.

Sure, post wherever you want, but don't play the victim when you deliberately barge into a thread directly defying the premise of the thread. You don't like Edwards, and it has a great deal to do with the fact that you like Clark and blame him for getting in your champion's way.

I like both Dean and Edwards. Recently, I've been very circumspect to retract many of the things I said about Dean during the primary season, and I think he's very well suited to his current job.

Although this thread was an obvious reaction to the derisiveness of the other two threads started by Clark supporters, and one deliberately slagging Edwards that was started by someone of whose affiliation I don't know, the general tenor of this thread was meant to be a refuge of camaraderie and joy. Thanks for helping to ruin it; yes, you have the "right" to rain on whatever parades you don't deem fit.

Mods, if I'm called out for deletion again, please read this; it's within board rules, and adhering to the spirit. It is also supportive of the board spirit by not suffering deliberate disruption. This rancor comes mostly from extreme Clark partisans and follows a very predictable pattern.

[spooky3]

67. well put, PoE.

[liberalnurse]

5. Me, Me, Me......

They need to bond.....yes they do......We need this team for 2008. Dean is th DNC Chair who will escort John Edward to the Presidency.

[Cha]

6. I'm glad you just said Dean and Edwards

and not biden.

I like them both. I just want Dems to stop falling into the media trap.

Dodd didn't have problem with what Dean said. No, I don't have a link..he was on the same program as biden was. But does Dodd's remarks get any air play or as many DU postings?

[snowbear]

7. Great post! :o)

Why on earth does there have to be umpteen posts on one stupid incident anyway? :wtf:

Someone please.. change the subject! :argh:

....... :grouphug:

[Todd B]

8. Me me!

Chalk me up as both a Dean and Edwards supporter.

Call me crazy, but I think Edwards would make a fantastic candidate for president, just because he strikes me as being an outside the beltway (not to mention he could probably do a hell of a lot more to better our lives then the Congress we have now).

I will admit that I'm not too familiar with the "Dean vs. Edwards" news story, I will have to seek it out. I'd still support them both though!

[Goldeneye]

9. I like them both. Biden...not so much,

but they are all democrats and I think they more or less agree where it counts...we need to take our country back.

[surfermaw]

10. I like DEan, Edwards Hillary

In fact any one that wears the Democrat Crown, however before the next presidential election, we should come together, instead of fighting. Iron the matters out, before campaign time, then stick together like glue no matter who the candidate is. We fought each other over Clark, Dean , Edwards, Kerry harder than we did the republicans, that is one reason we lost...Some of you are for Clark, Clark would be on the republican ticket if they would have him...He fought dirty, coming into the ring at the same time Edwards did, if he had stayed out, Edwards might have done much better...Dean is out there and I like to see and hear him kick ass, he is the bad cop Edwards the good Cop and it is good.

[Clark2008]

13. Oh that's crap about Clark

Please educate yourself.

We DRAFTED the man and Edwards had been running for a year prior to his "announcement." Big deal.

Clark was NEVER a Republican - he was an Independent - and so was I!

Please, if you want to flame Clark, start your own thread. Frenchie will see to it that you're better educated about the good General.

[ultraist]

37. Clark did vote for numerous Republicans like Bush Sr. and Reagan

Did he not? Didn't he also serve on Bush Sr admin in some capacity?

[Clark2008]

41. Hell, I've voted for Republicans, but that doesn't make me one.

Particularly not with them galloping off so far to the right.

Clark came to the conclusion and realization of this fact when Clinton ran and has voted Democratic ever since. Nothing wrong with a solid change of heart.

And, he served in the Ford Administration as a military-assigned representative to the Office of Budget and Management. He only served as a general under Bush the Smarter; so, technically, yes, he "served" in the Bush Administration, but he also "served" in the Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush and Clinton administrations in his capacity as a soldier, as well.

But, your boy took advice from a Republican general as recently as 2004. So... I wouldn't be pickin' a fight in this regard.

[FrenchieCat]

46. Yes....and he voted for numerous Democrats like Clinton, and Gore

and Kerry.

Clark has been serving since 1966. So he has served under a myriad of administrations since. period.

McGovern endorsed Wes Clark during the primaries. So if he was able to understand, respect and forgive Wes Clark for being an independent who voted against him way back then.....your current and out of date grudge need not apply.

[snowbear]

20. Someone rehearsed the GOP talking points..

I mean.. surfermah, word-for-word you have the GOP "anti-Clark" words down pat. :puke:

General Clark was N-E-V-E-R a ReTHUG and there's no way in Hell he would have ever joined their party! :mad:

He spoke at a PAID event for them once. He spoke at paid Democratic events during the same timeframe.

The entire "Clark Republican" b.s. came out when the GOP put it in their talking points in an attempt to take him down.

Would you want a 4-star General to face a flunkie who never served? If you're a member of the GOP, no way-- you'd want him OUT of the picture ASAP.

Your comments about General Clark were un-called for.

[Crunchy Frog]

31. Un fricken believable.

Use a positive thread about two Democrats to make a post attacking a third Democrat. What a way to help promote unity on this board.:eyes:

[FrenchieCat]

44. WTF?

Stop talking nonsense, surfermaw!

You don't even want to get me started on the long ago primaries...I am sure.

Edwards had been campaigning for over a year, when Clark announced!Edwards would have done better than what? Being VP on the ticket? I don't think that Clark announcing when Edwards was RE-announcing made any difference in Iowa....where Edwards was beaten by John Kerry and Clark did not contest. Nor do I think it make a hill of bean of a difference anywhere else that John Edwards was beaten by whomever.

I think it's wonderful you like both Dean and Edwards....but your little inserted Clark rant was not required!

and another thing, Democrats didn't lose because we supported different individual candidates during the primaries.....because most of us supported Kerry during the General election. Doh!

Get over the primaries, Aweright?

Democrats have only had one 4 star General on their team--ever! You should be embracing the concept! Doh!

[autorank]

11. Well, shee-att yeah! I love 'em. Want them to rise up and open a can of

whup ass...hit the streets and peel the bark off of every nearby Republican. Edwards is out of the Senate and he doesn't have to do that "my good friend blabla" crap anymore. It's about time for him to cut loose and turn the corner, if he wants a future in national politics. And if he does this, he will f'ing rule. For example, he's the one guy we've got who could go out tomorrow and raise election fraud, Ohio, etc. and be heard This guy just has it when he's hot and I'd like to see him get real hot!

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

Contact the DNC and Give 'em Hell About NOT Acting on Election Fraud

[ultraist]

14. I'd like to see Edwards get real hot too! woot!

And I like Dean. Dean said, "we will NOT concede the South!"

Fact is, Dean and Edwards like eachother and will be appearing together next week at a fundraiser for the DNC.

The MSM meme, that our party is broken is BS! We are ON FIRE and will take back the Senate in 06 and we WILL take back the WH in 08!

[autorank]

19. We shouldn't concede anything. We should get ready for an earthquake!

The Republicans had '94, we had '82, and we will have 2006. With Reid calling * a "liar" and Greenspan a "political hack" they're getting in form. They just need to really let loose, f'ing Huey Long style. It's all there ... except honest elections. Get the DNC out of lala land, leftovers from the "perpetual crew", e.g., Brazil, etc.

Oh, and Kerry...if he does what he said he'd do tomorrow, watch out. He's so damn cautious, if he moves, it means he has the goods.

:hi:

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

Contact the DNC and Give 'em Hell About NOT Acting on Election Fraud

[Rowdyboy]

12. I like Edwards and Dean.....And Clark and Kucinich and Clinton and

Kerry and Gore etc etc etc.....

Every politician says things he or she regrets. I wish Dean would be a tad more discrete and sometimes I think his judgement could be better but I'm not ready to call for his dismissal.

[ultraist]

16. Ya, and I l like Kuchinich too! Dennis rocks.

Add to that list:

Boxer
Conyers
Mel Watt
Rep Lewis

and MANY OTHER DEMOCRATS!

[oxbow]

15. They were both at the event where Dean said that

They are good friends and good public servants. We mujst remain united, because they still are.

[ultraist]

18. Dean and Edwards ARE good friends!

If they aren't letting one minor disagreement BREAK their support for eachother, why should we?

Fuck the MSM spin.

[MelissaB]

17. Holding hand up high

I love them both!

[blue neen]

21. Count me in.

They are both good Democrats and good representatives for our party.

Nominated.

[AmBlue]

22. Love 'em both!!!

Don't listen to the M$M crap........... that's all it is: CRAP.

[CalebHayes]

23. Yeah, I like Edwards better but I think they are both pretty nice guys.

[spooky3]

25. I like them both and want both to speak their minds.

[PopSixSquish]

26. How about Considering it this Way?

Every time the idiot media reports the story of "Democratic Infighting", don't they have to repeat Dean's original comment? Each time they repeat it, don't more people hear it?

This is just another case of the media creating a story rather than reporting on one.

I think both of these gentlemen are serious people who know exactly what's at stake. And I think we as a party and as a country will be lesser for it if either of them has to start censoring themselves.

[Ksec]

30. Bingo. We have a winner !

You nailed it.

[ultraist]

35. Good point! ALWAYS question the MSM

Particularly, when they are pushing their meme, "The Democratic party is broken."

[Yellow_Dog]

27. Dean is

like Kerry, unelectable because he doesn't appeal to the common man. His "yehaaaaw" branded him so, he comes across as a joke.

before everyone flames me, it is not about who Kerry or Dean is as a person, it is how they are perceived by the common man, and neither of them are like by "average joe".

[Ksec]

32. I disagree

I think Dean does appeal to average Joe. He doesnt play games with language . He tells you what he thinks and Joe likes that in a man. Im Joe so I know.

[Yellow_Dog]

39. maybe in Ohio

but not in the south.

[dave29]

73. oh, how wrong you are

one of the things John Edwards said during the primaries that made me realize he wasn't ready for prime time was his ridicule of "Northerner" Dean's confederate flag statement.

He said something to the effect that "you don't come to the south on a Sunday during Church and tell people how to vote".

Well, that's exactly what Karl Rove did, and it paid off in spades.

Southern Democrats (and I'm one of them) need to give Dean more credit - the man ran a rural state, speaks directly, and wants what's best for all Americans, not just Republicans.

[Yellow_Dog]

75. If so, then why

did Kerry/Edwards get their butt kicked so badly in the south?

You showed your bias by calling yourself a Southern Democrat, I consider myself an American and do not consider either party worthy of my support. I vote for the person, not the party.

I despise Bush and what he is doing to this country, yet I saw Dean as a very poor alternative (had he got the nomination). Had the dems presented one "normal" and "intelligent" alternative to dumbya, they would be in office today instead of Commander Cuckoo Bananas.

From what I read here (meaning all of the DU forums) nothing was learned in 00 or 04, and unless that changes, the repugs will have a cakewalk in 08.

[dave29]

83. Sir, your screen name is Yellow_Dog

which is just another way of saying "Southern Democrat" - so there's no need to lecture me about calling myself a Southern Democrat. I'm also a die-hard liberal, and unabashedly love America. I want what's best for the country, and my point, which you failed to grasp, was that Dean (not Kerry/Edwards) was right in his approach to the South.

That's about it.

[Yellow_Dog]

86. Nope, it is because

I use it on several forums because I own two wonderful YELLOW Labrador Retrievers. I think like an independent yet I am a registered republician, simply so that I can vote in primaries. The wife is registered as a democrat so she can vote in democratic primaries. That way our household has a voice in both.

Neither of us vote the party, but the candidate, and I believe the straight party button/lever should be removed from ballots. As of late it has been a vote "against" the greater of two evils. I hope I get to vote "for" someone in the near future.

Views I express here are as an American that is angry as hell to what happens to my country. Bush has a choke hold on this country and with his followers, Jeb Bush will continue unless someone can defeat him, and as the democratic party is squabbling like kids over a tri-cycle I don't see that happening.

[orpupilofnature57]

28. I like Dean, I'd vote for Edwards!

[Ksec]

29. I like them both but

I dont like apologists. "Edwards" showed little character IMO. He should just STFU.

But I still like him. Everyone screws up at one time or another.

Edited to change to edwards.

[Gyre]

33. Dean is more honest than Edwards.

Edwards has more appeal to the centrist-Dems who Dean scares. Boils down to how much courage do you have; just like the theory about the predominant state state of mind of repiglicans; ie, fearful. Fear scale continuum: 1st place: reptilicans (most fearful), 2nd place: centrist DLC dems, 3rd place: left-leaning dems and greens (least fearful). Pretty good generalization, no?

Gyre

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ksec]

36. I meant Edwards in my post above. Not Dean

Edwards is the apologist

[ultraist]

42. How RUDE!

Dean and Edwards are good friends. Get over it. They are both strong voices for our party.

Edwards "whole schtick" is NOT about Dean. Ridiculous.

NOT ONCE did he insult Dean during the primaries. And when Dean dropped he stated, "Edwards poses more of a challenge to Bush than does Kerry."

Might want to ask your guy Dean how he feels about Edwards.

[Ksec]

43. I did. He said Edwards was a dik.

No really. Honest. Seriously. yep..he said it...really

:)

[ultraist]

51. HaHa.

Are you saying Dean LIED about Edwards and was quoted in the Washington Post? :P

[AmericanDream]

58. Dean doesn't need Edwards to look out of the mainstream!

He already is out there.

[mzmolly]

40. .

[earth mom]

47. I like em both!

Conyers, Boxer and Kerry are my favorites, but Edwards and Dean are close behind.

What I especially like about Dean is that he's rejecting the Corporate bribery and putting the people first.

What I especially like about Edwards is that he cares about the little guy.

They both ROCK! :woohoo:

[Proud_Lefty]

48. I love both of them.

I met Jim Dean a few weeks ago and was asking him about some political strategy. He answered my question and started to walk away, after announcing to the group that he was leaving. I quickly stopped him again, told him how much I love his brother and appreciated the fact there was similarity in his appearance and his voice. He laughed at me and walked away making some comment about his mother's appreciation of Howard.

If you're not aware of the actual content that comments are being made, the media sure can convince you of something different happening than reality. I can't imagine Edwards ever bashing Dean. If these statements were presented to him by the press the way I've heard the media presenting it before, it sounds like someone out of control. They both made mistakes and minor ones at that. The only problem is that this media desperately wants to stop us and will blow the smallest thing out of proportion.

I don't understand Biden yet. Sometimes, his speeches are awesome. Other times, he seems totally bought off. Hopefully, he's pays off his debt soon and will permanently come to our side.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Adelante]

52. Welcome to DU, Paul05!!

:hi:

You seem like you will fit in here :freak:

[ultraist]

53. Paul05, are you lost? This is DEMOCRATIC Underground.

[Crunchy Frog]

55. Are you sure you're on the right thread?

Or the right board for that matter?:hi:

[ultraist]

61. LOL!

Looks to be a hit and run. I guess our friend from Texas found his way home. :rofl:

[AntiCoup2K4]

62. But he's not "stoned" yet

Guess the admins decided not to work on the Sabbath this week?

[Crunchy Frog]

63. They finally got him.

Just takes a little longer on Sunday nights.:)

[elshiva]

50. Yep!

:)

[ecstatic]

54. I did like Edwards... but not so sure now

His comments were traitorish. I'm not saying we should all be in lockstep--I disagree with many things going on in this party. The better approach would have been to bring those type of concerns up in a private room somewhere--not on TV! If Edwards/Biden TRULY were concerned, they would have met with Dean privately and voiced their concerns. When is the last time you saw a Republican publicly bash his/her party chairman? It's almost like going on Jerry Springer and turning your family into a sideshow.

[Eloriel]

60. Thank you -- you just reminded me of something nearly unforgiveable

that he did to Dean, during that one debate.

He climbed all over Dean for his "confederate flag" remark, and he did it in such a way as to appeal to the very racists that he was accusing Dean of appealing to. He did it in a DIVISIVE way. His appeal, FULLY INTENDED TO STIR UP SHIT, was about Yankees "coming down South" and "telling Southerners" what to do and how. I don't recall his EXACT phrasing, but this was most certainly the gist, and there's no doubt whatsoever that it was opportunistic, divisive (as I've said), and IMO just plain, flat WRONG of him to engage in that behavir. Clever, yes, but wrong. Flat wrong. Appallingly, shockingly wrong.

I know there are DUers who disagree, but I don't think winning is the only thing, and I don't want politics to be blood sport like this -- to say that it IS isn't good enough. I want it different. And there are 2 reasons I want it different: (1) the way it is now when even OUR side (the ones who should be the Good Guys) lie, cheat and steal, appalls and disgusts me; (2) it appalls millions of Americans who no longer participate in their civic duties to take care of our democracy because THEY are so turned off to all that and more.

[janx]

69. That was the only real disagreement I had with the Edwards

campaign during the primaries. That was foul. And I didn't appreciate the fact that he'd voted yes on the IWR.

But I still like him because I think he's capable of realizing when he has made a mistake.

[PeaceProgProsp]

56. I think they like each other, and I like them both. Dean practically...

...endorsed Edwards after he dropped out, and clearly his DNC strategy is very compatible with Edward's strategy for winning a national election.

I think their good cop-bad cop routine viz Republicans might even be intentional. Dean keeps the far left invigorated, and Edwards continues to carve his niche, which is an extremely progressive argument about building up people who work for a living (at the great cost of guaranteed wealth for the extremely wealthy) that even moderate Republicans and white men in the suburbs find appealing.

Dean might even be setting up Edwards to a degree so that the contrast is clear, but it obviously runs the risk of being exploited by the MSM (and by supporters of other Dem candidates) as division within the party. I think most Democrats are smart and won't fall for it.

[AmericanDream]

57. I like Dean ... and love Edwards!

[Eloriel]

59. Edwards has some work to do -- I COULD like him, but I'm not that

easy.

He's got to resolve his IWR vote, and quit saying what a GOOD thing his vote was (lie). I don't like lies. I don't like people lying to me and insulting me by thinking I'll buy it. It's patronizing.

That makes me think he's got a too slick side to him, for all his really wonderful populist rhetoric (which seems sincere enough on first blush). THen I begin to distrust him.

And that's the last thing I want in a politician: someone else to distrust, someone else who I fear will betray my allegiance and loyalty, my hopes and dreams.

[saracat]

64. THANK YOU .GREAT POST.

"There is nothing wrong with criticizing Democrats who say or do something that you don't agree with. I've done it here many times"

But some refuse to let even subtle criticism of Dean to be allowed. Interesting that those same people are free to bash Edwards. It should be wrong to bash either but permissible to criticize either. There should NOT be a double standard.This also applies to Kerry . The same people who will not tolerate Dean's criticism of himself are already bashing Kerry for a DSM speech he has yet to deliver! Go figure.

[Raiden]

65. I love Dean and Edwards - I like Hillary

Yellow Dog Democrat... checking in!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

66. The reported Dean/Edwards/Biden incident may be a LIE -see this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3794246

[janx]

68. I like them both, but like Eloriel, I think Edwards needs some

more work. I wish he would vary his speeches a little more. They sometimes come off as a bit on the melodramatic side. One thing that strikes me about Edwards, though, is that he just comes off as being so damned NICE! He just seems like a nice, dedicated guy.

So does Elizabeth Edwards. She seems so genuine and kind.

[janx]

70. WAIT--Who was fighting over Dean and Edwards? I didn't see it.

Do you have a link?

[blm]

71. They both could have handled it better but perfect isn't in the cards for

any human being, let alone any progressive, Democratic human being.

People are naturally flawed and it's difficult to grasp all the right words you want to use when under the pressure cooker of public speech making and policy making.

Anyone who thinks it's easy should jump in and prove it.

We should cut all these guys some amount slack because the media sure won't and uses everything they say to trip each other up, intentionally.

[Mass_Liberal]

72. here!

I don't think that they are actually in a spat, I think that it has just been blown up by a conservative media. I do think, however, that Dems need to give off an image of unity right now prior to the elections. Don't give the media any quotes that could be taken out of context and feature in a "Severe Dem Infighting" type article that the press is so eager to write.

[deadparrot]

74. Me.

I don't agree with either of them on every subject, but I think they're both good men with the best of intentions, despite their differing views on some issues.

[Dr Fate]

76. I like Dean and Edwards for the most part.

Good, solid DEMs for the most part.

[VOX]

77. Two good guys, two different styles.Both are Democrats, both are terrific.

These two gentlemen were my favorites on the 2004 trail. I supported Dean first, and when his candidacy folded, I supported Edwards.

I have nothing but good things to say about both of these fine Democrats.

[LSK]

78. i have no problem with either

I do have a problem with people trying to make an issue of it thou.

The enemy is the right, not Dean or Edwards.

[Hard_Work]

79. Love both these guys...

for different reasons. I was a Edwards supporter for a long time before the Dem primaries. I was a supporter right up to the infamous 'Dean scream'. On that night, I became a Dean supporter, because of his simple, raw passion. They say that good people don't go into politics, but Dean and Edwards convinced me otherwise.

Dean/Edwards Edwards/Dean was my dream ticket...

There was NO ONE who was more passionate than Al Sharpton, however. :)

[OzarkDem]

80. Love them both, trust them implicitly

[MoonRiver]

81. I really like Dean, and I kind of like Edwards.

Dean has pretty consistently supported issues that are of great importance to me. I prefer those who are more progressive like Kucinich, but in general Dean rocks. Edwards on the other hand seems to have sold out a few too many times.

[derby378]

82. Of course I love them both

Dean worked wonders as Vermont's governor, and Edwards stood up for the little guy in court.

[babsbunny]

84. I love them!

I thought Dean would finally be the Dem with backbone that we need so bad!!

[emulatorloo]

85. I do! EOM