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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:37 PM
Original message
John Conyers Posts to Huffington's Blog: Mens Rea and WMD
http://www.conyersblog.us/

Post your replies on JC's blog.

Sunday, June 5th, 2005

Mens Rea and WMD
New Blog at Huffington Post

I just posted a new entry at the Huffington Post. Check it out and let me know what you think.



Blogged by JC on 06.05.05 @ 02:11 PM ET


&/or on Huffington's

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/theblog/archive/john-conyers/mens-rea-and-wmd_2145.html

06.05.2005 Rep. John Conyers



Mens Rea and WMD
We have reached a point where all but the most delusional enthusiasts of the Iraq war have now acknowledged that Iraq did not possess weapons of mass destruction at the time of the U.S. invasion and likely for over a decade preceding the war. Fox News and the President were slow to acknowledge this fact, but now have.

Unfortunately, it seems this rare consensus has lulled many into failing to ask the follow-up question: why were the President and other high-ranking administration officials so definitive in their statements that Iraq possessed WMD? This question is not of a merely historical significance: we deserve to know whether these statements were the result of a "massive intelligence failure" as some have contended or a deliberate deception of the Congress and the American people.

Essentially, the question boils down to what lawyers call "mens rea". Before a defendant can be convicted of a crime the judge or jury must find not only that the defendant committed the wrongful act but also did so with a state of mind indicating culpability. In the case of a fraud, the jury must find that there was intent to deceive. In the case of Iraq, the weight of evidence continues to accumulate indicating that the American people and Congress may well have been the victims of a deliberate deception.

On page A26 of the Sunday, May 22 edition of the Washington Post, under the headline "Prewar Findings Worried Analysts," we learned that four days before the President made the now retracted claim that Iraq was trying to buy "significant quantities" of uranium from Africa, the National Security Council thought this case was so weak that it put out a frantic call for new intelligence.

In the same article, we learned that before an Oct. 7, 2002 Presidential speech in which the President claimed there was a potential threat to the U.S. by Iraq through unmanned aircraft "that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons," and a contemporaneous claim to Congress by Vice President Cheney and then-CIA Director George Tenet that this was the "smoking gun" justifying the war, " the CIA was still uncertain whether the was lying."

On page A1 of the Saturday, May 28 edition of the Washington Post, under the headline "Analysts Behind Iraq Intelligence Were Rewarded", we learned that the analysts who pushed the now discredited claim that Iraq's purchase of aluminum tubes was for the purpose of furthering a nuclear weapons program, have been richly rewarded for this conspicuous failure, receiving job performance rewards in each of the three years since this grave error.

The same article quotes "some current and former officials" as generally stating "the episode shows how the administration has failed to hold people accountable for mistakes on prewar intelligence."

Early this morning on the Associated Press wire, under the headline "Bolton Said to Orchestrate Unlawful Firing," we learn that the President's nominee to be Ambassador to the United Nations once again exercised his unique diplomatic talents, flying "to Europe in 2002 to confront the head of a global arms-control agency and demand he resign, then orchestrated the firing of the unwilling diplomat in a move a U.N. tribunal has since judged unlawful, according to officials involved." The diplomat’s sin? He was "trying to send chemical weapons inspectors to Baghdad. That might have helped defuse the crisis over alleged Iraqi weapons and undermined a U.S. rationale for war."

Thus, absent any contradictory evidence, in the past two weeks alone (leaving out the reports of the last three years), we have a pretty clear pattern. This Administration had a cover story, namely that a clear and present danger to the United States was posed by Iraq's WMD, for something they knew they wanted to do: go to war with Iraq. Those who brought forward the weight of evidence disputing these claims were first ignored and later punished. Those who assisted in the cover story were rewarded.

Sounds like the intelligence and facts were being "fixed" around the policy, as the Downing Street Minutes claim. That sounds like deliberate deception to me.


Posted at 02:00 PM

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pilgrimsoul Donating Member (266 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hell, yes!!!!
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 09:56 PM by pilgrimsoul
This is exactly what everyone needs to know. Once again, John Conyers connects the dots and plainly states the truth of the situation. I hope with all my heart that John Kerry will talk about all of this when he addresses the Senate tomorrow. It's time to take our country back from these neocon war criminals and give them a taste of justice!

Recommended - thanks!
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 10:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. Thanks for posting.. :o)
I was reading through the comments in Conyers blog.. What a great blog!

Well.. except for one guy who signs in as "Steven Walsh of Charlotte, NC") Whoa- that guy is completely out of it!! :o

Too bad people like him have to track down the websites of the good guys.. Other than him though, really nice site!! :headbang:
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. More people are finding out about JC's blog every day
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 10:08 PM by paineinthearse
Tell your friends about it.
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
4. We need more people like this
We need more people like Conyers who aren't afraid to criticize the administration and bring forth information.
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. KingFlorez
Welcome to DU

:hi:
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KingFlorez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Thanks
For the Welcome
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 10:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. he got quite the response
here
http://constantpated.blogspot.com/2005/06/impeachment-questions-highlighting.html

any DU legal eagles want to comment upon the comments?

dp
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. ...and I hear the petition has >200,000 signtures
not too shabby.
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dweller Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:11 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. i've seen the blogpost with 133,000
and i suspect some beancounter is furiously trying to keep up.

i hope you are correct.
dp
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ngGale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:08 AM
Response to Original message
10. Bolton's trip in 2002 confirms...
the Downing Street minutes are true. Connect all the dots, Bolton is another key.
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baron j Donating Member (434 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
11. kick
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tsuki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 05:18 AM
Response to Original message
12. Kick.
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MelissaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:20 AM
Response to Original message
13. Thanks!
:kick:
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
14. Wouldn't it have been nice..
To have had SOMEONE in Congress who had the balls to stand up to * and friends BEFORE this whole fucking mess started? Two plus years later, three plus counting the run-up to war, and only now is ANYTHING happening? It's 8:30 in the morning, but actually thinking about that makes me need a drink.

MojoXN
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. Mopaul says it best
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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. OUCH!!!!
Let's all send Gov.Dean a letter saying we want him to hear us and be our voice, to back him so it dosen't just "die" like all the other stories do.
Let's write "Newsweak" and let them know we are behind their efforts to bring out the truth.

Tell Conyers and Kerry to SPEAK LOUDER in the Senate!!!

Com'on Dems, we need to let the people in the Red States know that they are still free to voice an opinion other than the ones they are told to believe.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #15
24. OMG.....dreadful. Sad... MoPaul often get's to the heart of it....
even if it's a shocker. :-(
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. Great post, but I have one question
There is much evidence that Bush and PNAC had been plnning on invding Iraq as early as before he was in office. What was their justification or reasoning then? Where did they get their 'good intelligence' from then? Who the hell are they trying to kid?
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MojoXN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. "Who the hell are they trying to kid?"
The entire world.

They could give a flying fuck about intelligence. The crazy assholes think that they can impose democracy on the Muslim world at the barrel of a gun. They honestly don't understand WHY Iraqis get so pissed off at the fact that we've ravaged and conquered their nation. The whole Bushite junta thought that they'd go down in history as American heroes for placating our 'enemies' and setting up puppet states. They should have opened a fucking history book before they started their grand misadventure. Could have saved the lot of us a whole heap of trouble.

MojoXN
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Tesla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I know this is just NOT RIGHT!!!
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. except for one thing; the misadventurists are getting
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 09:49 AM by ooglymoogly
fabulously wealthy....wealth = power to hell with the country as far as they are concerned. let murkin citizens pay for the turmoil they have caused while they rake off billions in the confusion and fog of war.
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Amonester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #17
25. With all due respect, I agree with you, and more.
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 09:43 AM by Amonester
Yes. They could have saved the lot of us a whole heap of trouble, except that in reality, they think they are so above everybody else who might disagree with them, that they "rely" on their false sense of invincibility (because they can't really be 'invincible' if the People do not let them be 'invincible'), yeah, they rely on that false sense to the point they don't really give a rat's ass about what they could have saved the lot of us at all.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1826665

These criminals of the highest degree a few Germans never even approached some 60 years ago don't and won't save the lot of anybody standing in their way to absolute domination through deception and blatant lies to their country (anybody out there really believe they even care after all the deaths of all the innocents they already murdered, murder, and will murder if they are not stopped and brought to Justice as soon as possible?), and to the world.

ALL they're really interested in is the final establishment of their new 'invincible monarchy' and the absolute power for greed, tax free offshore heavens, and all this at the expense of the lower income workers's mandatory income tax revenue declarations, as well as the (they hope) never ending enlistments of the poorest youngsters in their MIC's 'orwelian' supremacy goals.

The time to stand up and tell these ultimate war criminals that "we now see them through, clearly" has finally "arrived." Take your dear country back from their bloodied hands first, restore her civilized image and the civilized world will always be on your honest side, all the way through your hardship, until the day you'll win her back.

Recommended and kicked.
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MadisonProgressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #17
30. Of course, I agree 100%
What I'm really getting at tho, is why are we concentrating solely on the buildup to the war deceit when the answers to the questions I just asked would give us all the 'intent' we need to impeach the whole lot of PNAC'ers?
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
20. My thoughts
My first response was to wonder if it was smart for him to broadcast his evidence far and wide this way. I think it would be better if this were brought up to a grand jury. But then I realized the Rep. Conyers is in pretty much the same fix that Mark Felt AKA Deep Throat was in with one glaring difference. See, Mark Felt leaked his information to Woodward and Bernstein because he had no other way to get the information out. He couldn't go to the Attorney General because he was bought and paid for. Same for the heads of the FBI and CIA. He certainly couldn't have gone to the administration. He definitely wouldn't have lived to be ninety doing that. Now, we look at Conyers situation. He can't go to the current Attorney General, Alberto "Geneva conventions are quaint" Gonzales, nor to the head of the CIA, Porter Goss, a WH stooge if ever there was one. I can't speak to him going to the head of the FBI but their role would be pretty inconsequential. He will never be able to get a grand jury convened - his Republican fellow congresscritters won't allow that to happen. So, it's off to the media then, eh? No, it isn't. Alas, that's the big difference here. If there are any journalists outside of the internet (I have begun to question that one), they won't be allowed to do what Woodward and Bernstein did, not inside the corporate controlled media machine. So Rep. Conyers is doing an end run around all of them, coming straight to the people.

I truly hope there are enough people listening to make a difference.

And I hope he stays off of small planes.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. tavalon! . Thanks for that perspective. He has to take it to the People
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 09:34 AM by KoKo01
Isn't it a disgrace that "the people" are all he has left to go to. We here on the "internets" have to have broad shoulders to carry the weight of all this.,and very fast "clicking" fingers to keep getting the word out and the pressure on.


As fast as the Bushies & Co. work to dismantle our Constitution and Courts we "the people" have to be working furiously to try to thwart him by getting the information out.



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nightfox02 Donating Member (95 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:35 AM
Response to Original message
21. Conyers is ON MESSAGE
All our Dem leadership should be taking this up...Why aren't they. I am creating a shit list as I speak....

Conyers is dead on here. The evidence piles up to create mens rea. From the office of special plans, to numerous cia officials, the uranium incident, to the downing street memo. We have a case folks. The repubs will fold under the pressure from the public if we do our job and present the evidence...

As stated before we couldnt have been given much of an easier softball... Only thing easier would be to have complete control of the Congress...

However, I would argue that that is not a factor given the mountain of evidence we can put forth and its impact on the 2006 elections...or the asses of the GOP as a whole exposed to public backlash.

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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
26. YES! beautifully written!
Edited on Mon Jun-06-05 09:55 AM by johnaries
Rep Conyers is the BEST JOURNALIST IN AMERICA!
:applause:

Edit: Oops! Sorry, Will Pitt. OK, Conyers is the SECOND greatest journalist in America. :hi:
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
27. John Conyers...
...is a great American.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
28. Rec'd and kicked. Mr. Conyers, I salute you.

:patriot:

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LunaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
29. Culpability?
I just posted PNAC 101 over there. Let's see what he does with THAT!

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Fire Walk With Me Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
31. "the jury must find that there was intent to deceive."
So they become experts at smokescreens, the better to deceive. It's not torture if we say it isn't, so put those damning photos down.. Old news...

Our society is breeding monsters.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
32. Conyers on npr this morning-
Conyers-"Good morning!,,,(Question-"We've spent a lot of time talking about the Downing Street Memo and the revelation of that crucial phrase about the intelligence being fixed to shape a reason to go to war in Iraq.Tell me what your reaction is to what's happening out there now in the American public,the reaction to this memo and the feeling on the part of many that the administration lied to the American people.")

Well,there's an unusual thing happening in two respects.One,is that,excluding you and a few others,there's a great reluctance on the media to want to inquire to inquire into a matter as serious as this.

This abuse can be a constitutional one that could have grave ramifications.But,among the American people,and our polls show it,nationally and in my state of Michigan,most people would like us to resolve this war as quickly as possible and get the folks out,our folks out.

And this question revealing that there may have been secret plans for a war while the president and his cabinet were assuring us that they were looking for every other means to get into war,rather,than to get out of war,is pretty serious if it's accurate and there's no desire to want to go there,and I think it's very important.

It reminds me of the Vietnam episode of how citizen power finally forced our government to leave Vietnam.Reminds me of how things built up around the impeachment of President Nixon which was considered out of the question in view of the fact that he had been reelected by a far more substantial margin than one state.

And so what we're trying to figure out is why is there is such a lack of opposition among those who feel that this should go further.And on the other side of it ,Dianne, is the very serious problem of a president who refuses to honestly communicate with not just one member of Congress;a lot of us have sent letters to get people in the White House to respond.

And then we have in addition 89 members of Congress,and you get these reactions-"Uh,this is old stuff."Well it isn't old stuff,we never had a declassified British intelligence memo before the the Sunday London Times released it.

We knew that former Secretary of Treasury O'Neil and security officers and weapons inspectors have all said that there was a war being planned much earlier than the president received Congressional support for increased military action.But it's slow coming and I think it tells us a not very happy part of our political process in here in this country.

(Question-"Have you and your colleagues asked the White House for information specifically about this Downing Street Memo and have you received specific answers?")

Yes we have asked for a meeting and a response and we've been brushed off,we don't have anything yet.

(Question-"How serious do you believe this information to be?")

Well the first thing is that by them not responding to it and dismissing it gives it ,to me, a credibility that nobody can give it but president Bush and the White House itself.And so I think the fact that there may have been and likely was,as many have written before but we couldn't do this with O'Neil or weapons inspectors or security people in the United States.

Here was declassified notes with the prime minister who is here in Washington today to meet with the president and both of them are together and you would think that somebody would say "Well let's just tell them what happened."

That's all we're looking for.And I can't put the fullest weight on this matter until I finnd out what it is they tell me."

Host-"Congressman John Conyers,Democrat of Michigan,thank you so much for joining us sir and good luck to you."

Conyers-"And thank you so much for dealing with this difficult subject."

Host-"Thank you so much,Martin Walker,last word,quickly."

Walker-"Congressman Conyers on his website has got a ,the chance to sign up to a petition saying you want to join him in this concern,so far the last count,over 90,000 signatures.That's the kind of pressure that might be needed now."(end)



http://www.wamu.org/programs/dr/05/06/06.php
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. .
evening :kick:
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dalloway Donating Member (744 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-06-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
34. kickin' it for JC
:kick:
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