Kerry Calls Swift Boat Liars Bluff, Will They Come Clean?

[kerrygoddess]

John Kerry’s newly released Form 180 records revealed yesterday that there were no deep, dark secrets hiding in Kerry’s previously unreleased military records as the Swift Boat Liars had claimed. The Boston Globe noted that these newly released records prove what the Kerry campaign ascertained all along, that all of Kerry’s records were made available in April 2004. It does appear that the conspiracy theories have been disproved, yet again.

Now we’ll watch the spin on the right and the left once again and see where this story leads us. Sadly, along with the right-wing blogs spinning this story yesterday, there were left-wing blogs blowing it out of proportion as well. Evidently some on the left enjoy helping the right-wing, as I mentioned here Tuesday. The Leftcoaster is claiming “vanity” as the answer to why Kerry did not previously release his Form 180 records, noting that the news generated from this story yesterday is the spin on Kerry’s grades at Yale as opposed to his military record.

And of course, the vitriol from the right-wing continues in wake of the release of Kerry’s records, including a call from one blog for the Boston Globe to release all the records on their website as a PDF and another who has written the Globe’s ombudsman asking for verification of what is in the records. What we have not seen from the right-wing or the Swift Boat Liars is any sort of acknowledgement that they were wrong. Not that we expected that we would.

The right-wing Disinformation Society is hard at work spinning more spew over this issue. Aside from the media’s attention yesterday on the “grades” story further examples of the right-wing spin can be found here (including a statement from Kerry nemesis John O’Neill), here, here, here and here. So tight is the Republican hold on the spin that the reality is, as Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. said in his Vanity Fair article in May – The Disinformation Society, “No matter who the Democratic nominee was, this machinery had the capacity to discredit and destroy him.”

The Swift Boat Liars have never had anything solid on John Kerry, nor has the right-wing for that matter. In lieu of real dirt, the next best alternative of course is to sling synthetic mud. And when that does not stick, sling more synthetic mud. Now they are slipping and sliding in their own nasty mess, like a bunch of sorry mud wrestlers and they cannot come clean on this with out a whole mess of lye soap. Not even lye soap will wash away the fact that a few men saw fit to besmirch the military record of American war hero, a candidate for president, a seated senator of the United States. It is the Swift Boat Liars, who are covered in dirt here, not John Kerry.

As a Kerry spokesperson pointed out yesterday morning, off the record, now Kerry has “called the Swift Boat Liars' bluff and let's see if they will come clean about THEIR records.”

And, for that matter, when will Bush be releasing all of his records?

LINKS on LUTD - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1035

[ebayfool]

1. But please don't hold your breath, kerrygoddess -

you know these slugs aren't about to show their underwear to anybody ... they only want to look in everyone else's drawers!

I'd sure like a peek at their records, though! Should be a requirement, you demand someone's records ... open up your own as well!

[reformedrepub]

63. Swift Boat Liars

The swift boat liars knew there was nothing on Kerry DD-214 that would diminish his military record. They simply used it as a smokescreen to hide Bush's record (or lack thereof)He should have signed the damn thin during the campaign and challenged Bush to do the same.

[kerrygoddess]

74. He did challenge Bush to do so during the campaign

And he withheld that he would sign his when Bush did.

[Jensen]

2. I want to see * records made public!

I bet Dan Rather's report is on the mark and little boots did NOT put in his time, while he sends young people to die in his stupid illegal war!

[BikeWriter]

3. Of course he did not. He swore to FLY for five years.

[blm]

10. Don't blame Bush. Poor guy was too scared of landing planes to finish his

training. Could have been the excessive drugs and alcohol in his system that led to his panicking over learning to land, or it just could have been a crystal clear example of his true character - he can't accomplish anything on his own.

[BikeWriter]

13. Yep, without Poppy's billions he's a loser. At one point he knew it...

"You know, I could run for governor but I'm basically a media creation. I've never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business. But that's not the kind of profile you have to have to get elected to public office."
George W. Bush, 1989

[Spectral]

48. Absolutely. He was a loser until he ran for governor of Texas

ANd for some reason, got voted in.

[FreedomAngel82]

49. With W's records

Both Alex Jones and Greg Palast have copies. You can hear them talk about them in their films. If anybody knows their Bush family 101 they know Bush was AWOL. He was more then likely still partying and doing drugs and alcohol back then. Bush will never have to answer for his records while slamming real soliders like Kerry and Cleland.

[Imagevision]

55. no need to, swiftboatee's are lughing their asses off

They served their purpose end of story.

[still_one]

4. John Kerry why didn't you do this when we needed it

now who gives a damn

[Mass]

5. If you read the papers, you will see that this would have been a pointless

exercise.

The Swift Boats will never stop. They are claiming that he should release his personal records as well, that the records released are not enough, and that they will continue to ask for more.

Right now, this will go nowhere because the campaign is finished, but during the campaign, it would have prolonged the crisis, because their real beef was not with his military records (they could not care less), it was with his anti-war leadership in the 70s.

Except if you expect Hannity, Matthews, and the FOX Channel to become fair all of a sudden.

[still_one]

33. never leave a charge unanswer, or it will assumed to be true

[Botany]

6. Egg Zact Lee

You (Kerry) had this info during the campaign ...... why now?

You could have turned the lights on them when they were outside the
DNC and put 'em up on the big screen and called them out then and
there on national t.v., but you didn't.

You could have shown the relationship between them, Perry,
Rove, and Creative Response Concepts during the debate
w/ * and show he was involved too, but you didn't.

Go be a good senator and hold *'s feet to the fire but I will
ALWAYS remember OSU campus late Oct., 2004. A tear on my
face as "The Boss" sang "No retreat, no surrender ......."

[LittleClarkie]

29. He does for one

the only thing about releasing it then is that the truth didn't seem to matter much. I think he could have stripped and shown his scars and it wouldn't have made much difference. The truth seemed to be no defense.

The freepers couldn't even handle the stuff that WAS out there. A typo on his DD214 became a major scandal to them.

Not to mention that the Globe said there was almost nothing in the released records that was different from what was up on Kerry's site. The only thing that might have helped was the earlier commendations from the Smear vets.

But remember we had that in the 1996 Senate race where some of the same smear vets came out and praised him to high heaven. Did it matter? Not a bit.

[ngGale]

7. I remember seeing the Swifties calling for...

Kerry's records and pretending they would comply. I'm no holding my breath - the Swifties have the media on their side.

[Mass]

8. We dont care. All we want is more Kerry bashing.

:sarcasm:

[Vinca]

9. The Swifties and the people who support them don't care about the truth.

If they did, Kerry would be president.

[rfkrfk]

11. who was allowed to read the newly released documents? n/t

[Mass]

12. For all those who thinks that Kerry releasing his records earlier would

have stopped the controversy, here is a particularly enlightening piece in the latimes. I think it should be now clear that the release of the records last year would have changed nothing. Everything had pretty much de debunked anyway, and those people who did not believe Kerry are those who would not have believed him anyway.

We can debate whether Kerry reacted quickly enough to the attacks, but clearly, signing the form was not the solution.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-kerry8jun08,0,3048402.story?coll=la-home-nation

But a former Swift boat officer who led the Navy veterans' bitter public campaign against Kerry demanded more Tuesday, saying that the file was incomplete.

"We asked him to universally release his entire file, and what we've seen instead is a parceling out of incomplete records," said John O'Neill, a Houston lawyer who was a founder of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The group last year mounted a well-bankrolled advertising campaign to undermine Kerry's wartime pedigree.

O'Neill expressed doubt that Kerry's latest document release included material from the National Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. But David Wade, a Kerry spokesman, said that the request to Navy Personnel Command to release documents extended to all government record repositories.

In a phone interview from Houston, O'Neill said the Swift boat group was pressing for information about three unresolved controversies from the 2004 race: Kerry's disputed contention that his Swift boat had entered Cambodian waters about December 1968; wording discrepancies among several versions of Kerry's medal commendations; and a perceived lag between Kerry's discharge from the Navy in 1970 and a later departure date in 1978.

"If he made a true universal release of his records and not through selective journalists, maybe we could get to the records that would answer some of these questions," O'Neill said. "If there were orders, for example, that sent him to Cambodia, they should be in his file."

Navy archives are sometimes incomplete, and Kerry's latest document release contained no new information on any of those controversies. But it did include the missing first page of a two-page evaluation from 1969. That document indicated that Kerry would have been selected for "accelerated promotion" and described him as "one of the top few" in his officer group — the highest rank available.

[flpoljunkie]

16. Nothing would have mattered with a media who seeks conflict, and which

gives equal weight to both sides-never bothering to point out what is the truth of the matter, and that one side are lying dirtbags, the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," in this case.

Our media must evidently be shamed into doing their jobs. Let's continue to remind them daily of their responsibility to speak truth to power.

[FreedomAngel82]

50. O'Neil was created by Nixon

and has been going after him ever sense. He's going to die going after Kerry. O'Neil needs a life. Maybe he needs to get laid or something. He's been doing this shit for thirty something years. Anybody who has heard the Nixon tapes can hear him talking about Kerry and creating O'Neil.

[ima_sinnic]

14. and Kerry didn't release all his records during the election

AND demand that Bush do the same THEN, because--??

[Mass]

15. And that would have made a difference ????

[ima_sinnic]

17. in making the point that Bush was hiding something? yes.

in my opinion of Kerry? yes.

principle of the thing.

[Mass]

18. delete

[bobbieinok]

64. and you think media would have let us know Kerry had done this????

how many speeches did they cover??? how often did he get a chance to finish a comment TV??

the whole media was and is rigged against any democrat who says anything other than the RNC talking points

[kerrygoddess]

31. He did do both actually

The newly released records proved that there was nothing more than what had been made public by April 04. Kerry called on Bush to release his records numerous times.

[FreedomAngel82]

51. And also

the navy okay'd his records as well and said he was telling the truth. Hmm I don't remember the national guard coming out and okaying Bush's. Nobody has claimed that $10,000 reward either.

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theboss]

19. In other news....Phil Hellmuth just called a bet from the 2003 WSOP

It's a little late to be calling bluffs, isn't it?

[wakeme2008]

20. Whoever the 2008 Dem runner is, they better be ready to fight and fight

hard against the SB repugs......

[Mass]

21. take on the issue by Atrios (could not agree more with him)

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2005_06_05_atrios_archive.html#111819607885198316

Kerry

One can debate whether Kerry should've released his military records during the campaign. It may have helped. It may have not. But, it's certainly wrong to be sure of this opinion. As August writes:

If Kerry bowed to right-wing pressure last year and given them the records because he actually felt he had something to prove to them, what would be next? Accepting their challenge to debate them in that god-awful Sinclair Media propoganda "Stolen Honor" event? Allowing them to examine his scars live on television the night before the election? Each ridiculous demand would top the next, and each would be backed by the warbloggers with the proud standby that "if he doesn't say yes, he's hiding something."



The point is that as long as our liberal media is willing to run unsubstantiated bullshit and accusations from the right nonstop, it's silly to imagine that anything can innoculate us against it. That isn't to say there's good strategy and bad strategy in the face of it, but in this particular case I think Kerry's actions may have been correct. At least, I think it's wrong to believe that had he signed the release previously it would have had any noticeable effect on the Chris Matthews election narrative.

[kerrygoddess]

23. That pretty much what we have said

On LUTD, just a different spin.

[Mass]

24. I agree totally

[FreedomAngel82]

52. Of course

They would've come up with something else. It's really quite pathetic. Kerry is a hero and Bush is a turd.

[bunny planet]

22. Kerry needs to openly, publicly and loudly SUE the Swift Boat Liars for

Bush for defamation of character and libel. Period. NOW.

I thought I heard somewhere that he was going to do that.
They have to be legally held accountable for their lies, prove their case against Kerry in court. They can't. Winning that case will dismiss them for good.

Why won't he do it?
I love John Kerry. It is unfortunate that an honest and decent man should have to go to these lengths but that is just the way it is.

I wish he could go after the disgusting human beings that wore the purple heart bandaids at the Republican convention. They were a disgrace.

[Toots]

26. Yes he does and not ask for a single dime (except court costs) but an

APOLOGY. A public Apology to all America that they defamed Kerry and told LIES. Kerry needs to do this or forget about another run.

[bunny planet]

30. Oh of course, forgot to mention, he should not seek monetary redress.

The public apology on Broadcast news and in every paper that printed the lies without question would be exactly what should be required.

[Hello_Kitty]

61. A public retraction, that's all that's necessary.

Of course, he could also ask for a nominal sum of monetary damages and then publicly donate them to a Veteran's fund.

[BagEnd]

80. That would be a big mistake

This isn't England, libel is incredibly difficult for a public figure to win ( a presidential candidate worst of all)...

...and losing the case would only leave the impression that they were telling the truth.

[jsw_81]

25. Why is Kerry doing this months after the election?

You should have done this a year ago, Senator.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Ksec]

27. It was nice seeing media holding SBV accountable ;)

I mean they pushed the SBV for weeks and now that they get beaten down nothing from the republican corporate run Red Media.

[LittleClarkie]

28. The answer from the head Smear vet

Is it just me, or is he pretzelling himself up pretty badly to try and say that this is nothing and the truth is still out there.

""We called for Kerry to execute a form which would permit anyone to examine his full and unexpulgated military records at the Navy Department and the National Personnel Records Center. Instead he executed a form permitting his hometown paper to obtain the records currently at the Navy Department. The Navy Department previously indicated its records did not include various materials. This is hardly what we called for. If he did execute a complete release of all records we could then answer questions such as (1)Did he ever receive orders to Cambodia or file any report of such a mission (whether at Christmas or otherwise); (2) What was his discharge status between 1970 and 1978 (when he received a discharge) and was it affected by his meetings in 1970 and 1971 with the North Vietnamese? (3)why did he receive much later citations for medals purportedly signed by Secretary Lehman who said he did not know of them; (4) Are there Hostile Fire and Personnel Injured by Hostile Fire Reports for Kerry's Dec. 1968 Purple Heart (when the officer in charge of the boat Admiral Schacte, the treating Surgeon Louis Letson, and Kerry's Division Commander deny there was hostile fire causing a scratch) awarded three months later under unknown circumstances."

I mean honestly, what IS that.

[Sparkly]

34. Where's that from?

Sorry if I'm slow on the uptake here -- I've been so busy, I can't keep up.

To #1, the government was lying, routinely. If there were orders to go into Cambodia (while the government was saying it wasn't happening), would they be in Kerry's records?

I think #2 is just an excuse to say the phrase "his meetings with with the North Vietnamese." As IF, after what he'd been through, he was suddenly against his fellow soldiers. (Like the Swifties are today, in fact.)

I'm sure there's an answer to #3.

#4 is bogus. Iirc, Letson was NOT the "treating surgeon." I've forgotten the details of that FOURTH purple heart (do these people even hear themselves saying those words?!) but even if not inflicted BY hostile fire, if there was injury during engagement the award is deserved.

"Support the troops" my ASS is all I can say. These jerks truly piss me off. Where are they getting these statements out? Jealous fuckwads is all they are.

[LittleClarkie]

35. Blogs for Bush

I think I got the link from Freeperville.

[Sparkly]

36. There are blogs for Bush?!

I'm totally out of the loop. :dunce:

[kerrygoddess]

38. Um yes...

Might be good to read what they say once in while. There's links to the right wing blog's spin on this here - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1035

[lojasmo]

32. And only 9 months after the attack.

Perhaps Kerry's actions have a gestation period.

[mitchum]

37. LOL!!!

[sandnsea]

39. Maybe in another 9 months

the lightbulb will go off in your head and you'll realize the swift boat liars are still attacking and that's exactly what they would have done last year. If you're not outraged yet, what's your gestation period on that?

[LittleClarkie]

40. Indeed

see my post here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1837784&mesg_id=1838719&page=

Imagine if you will, Kerry signs the 180 during the campaign. The media ignores it just as they did the rest of the evidence, or dumps it on Friday, as CNN did when the Navy cleared Kerry's medals. Hannity has O'Neill on again so he can explain how he's still not satisfied and this changes nothing, just as he does in my post in the link, and how he's getting such a raw deal because after 2 hours of talking, no one is letting him speak (sob!)

And the Repub echo chamber proceeds as before. Bleck.

The truth didn't matter before. It still doesn't matter. The only thing they're missing is their funding and help from the Repub p.r. firm. But they'll get that again if ever needed.

[lojasmo]

41. I was outraged at the "vets" before Kerry ever said BOO about it.

You're pointing fingers at the wrong fella.

[sandnsea]

46. When was that?

I'm betting you don't know when Kerry first said BOO about it.

[lojasmo]

53. Kerry chose not to address it during the campaign. EOM

[sandnsea]

62. Here's the truth

It was addressed, first in May. And instantly when the August ad was released as well.

The Truth.

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1055

[lojasmo]

65. Not nearly enough...here's the most salient quote....

'"But the most important thing that was missing was gut level righteous indignation. What I should have seen was “We have sunk so low in this country that we are willing to denigrate a man’s war service, simply because he is a Democrat. Anybody who would do that isn’t worth the shrapnel in John Kerry’s ass.”
That’s all we should have heard then'

one ad, one speech, one internet ad, and john McCain?

Yep, that was stellar work. :eyes:

[sandnsea]

67. Thank you

Then I would guess we agree. If you think that was the appropriate response, then what's your gripe with the campaign?

And just for the record, it wasn't ONE of each, those were examples of what the campaign was doing and when. It takes an echo chamber for it to matter. We didn't have one, that's my point. Well, we did. Except our echo chamber echoed the right wing talking points, Kerry can't respond because it's true and sign the 180. Go back and read what liberal bloggers said. We didn't have an echo chamber, we had a whining chamber.

And YES, John McCain. Most people aren't so partisan that they would dismiss a Republican's words just because he's a Republican.

[lojasmo]

68. Don't thank me....

We don't agree. The response was pathetic, as was the article you provided.

[sandnsea]

71. read this thread

This is exactly what was going on last August. You tell me how all of this handwringing and snarkiness, instead of righteous indignation, helped. Why is it that somebody says "I disagree" to Howard, and the entire left is up in arms. But a bunch of smarmy liars malign our Presidential candidate's war service, and those same people attacked our candidate instead of opposing the liars.

That was and is the most pathetic thing. And it happened repeatedly.

[lojasmo]

82. I never attacked Kerry during the campaign.

Nor will attack our next candidate during the campaign. Just because I think Kerry and MBC ran a crappy campaign wouldn't give me free reign to attack the leader of the democratic party.

I don't think people should be attacking Dean now, either (at least not for some statements he made to rouse the democratic base) If somebody wants to criticize his plan for the party, that is, perhaps, a different case.....but that's not what's going on.

[sandnsea]

83. Apparently, nobody did

It's just my imagination that I read the same crap that's in this thread during the campaign. :eyes: This is just so typical. The "attack" on Dean was completely imaginary, now it's turned into a shit storm. The attacks on the Kerry campaign all last year were real, and now everybody denies it. If this is the way the Democratic Party has been operating for the last 20 years, no wonder we lose.

[lojasmo]

84. No, we lost because it was a poor campaign

I predicted 9 months before the democratic convention that if Kerry got the nod we'd lose the general.

I worked my ass off for Kerry/Edwards, and all the state house candidates in our district. (who both won, BTW, even though Kerry lost in our city)

Like I said before, I didn't attack Kerry during his entire campaign. I even got lots of people to vote for the tragic fella.

[paineinthearse]

42. ?Kerry Calls Swift Boat Liars Bluff, Will They Come Clean?

I'm confused about the subject line. Is this a Kerry statement, or indirect statement through his press officer. Any links to a direct satement?

[kerrygoddess]

44. Off the record

"As a Kerry spokesperson pointed out yesterday morning, off the record, now Kerry has “called the Swift Boat Liars' bluff and let's see if they will come clean about THEIR records.”

No link to any direct statement, that statement was in an email I received from a Kerry spokesperson.

[Goldeneye]

43. No chance. They're going to keep this thing alive. That's what they do.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=44667

Next they'll want to perform a complete medical exam to be sure there really is shrapnel in his leg.

[Igel]

45. The main problem with the records released isn't what they show;

it's what they don't show.

The records are incomplete. I impute no culpability to anybody, just repeat the claims that reports that should be there aren't. 30+ year-old records are frequently incomplete; heck, I had trouble finding my birth certificate when I needed it in February, and I had it out just last summer.

There's Swiftie claim X. There's Navy paperwork Y. They talk past each other.

The missing first page of a report that was "fully released" catches Kerry in a small falsehood; there's no evidence this was a lie.

The form SF (?) 180 *should* have been signed two years ago. Kerry kept saying he would, or that he'd look into it ... over, and over, and over. Kerry supporters from time to time claimed he had signed it, one DU thread, if I recall right, even had a poster who claimed s/he saw it on Kerry's website.

What would signing it have done? It wouldn't have stopped the Swiftie's claims. But then Kerry couldn't have been caught saying, I have released all the records, when he hadn't released absolutely every single one. Furthermore, when the record was incomplete, Kerry would have just turned to the press and said, If there are records missing, why don't you ask the current Commander in Chief to look into it ... it's out of my hands.

[karynnj]

47. Kerry said he released everything he had

that there was a page missing - which incidentaly gave him the highest possible rating and recommended accelerated promotion- does not constitute a "small falsehood", unless YOU KNOW Kerry had it and decided not to include it. Given the content, it's more likely that Kerry was not given it by the Navy. Kerry said he had all the military records (except medical which he showed to a few newspapers.) he was given on the web site - and after getting the files it appears he did.

As to signing it 2 years ago, Kerry and his staff did put together a reasonable summary of his service. Did Dole, McCain, Gore or Bush sign this form? - NO. This was a demand put on Kerry as part of an effort to make it seem there was something wrong with his service - even though he was highly decorated and had excellent fitness reports. You don't get it - this was a smear campaign.

You say now the records are incomplete - but what is missing. From what was on the web since last April, his fitness reports span the time he was there. These alone show that his superiors never wrote anything negative. The problem for O'Neil is that he probably hoped either something embarrassing would be found or that Kerry would never sign. O'Neil lied about his own record. I have yet to see anything that says Kerry lied on anything.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

54. "Kerry locks barn door 8 months after horses stolen" nt.

[RetroLounge]

56. Who gives a shit

He could have done this last year, but didn't.

So who really cares now?

RL

[quaker bill]

57. Exactly

Isn't all this far too late to matter?

To the extent Kerry and the DLC did not know the swifties were coming, they were blind and ignorant. The swifties had been anti-Kerry since the 60's.

By the way, just in case you missed it, they knew these guys were coming for them. This is why Kerry was surrounded by his swift boat buddies and the convention was filled with allusions to war heroism.

The fact that it has taken this long to get down to brass tacks with these guys just shows what a lame campaign it was.

[NVMojo]

58. people who didn't even walk in the man's shoes know the absolute

right thing for him to do? How many of the naysayers have ever been through a Rove spin cycle? Democrats, quit eating your own.

[LuPeRcALiO]

60. yep

and at least he came out of it alive and kicking.

[ailsagirl]

70. Hear, hear NVMojo!!

[kerrygoddess]

75. Aptly put my friend. N/T

[LuPeRcALiO]

59. they'll never come clean because they sold their integrity to Karl Rove

and they don't have anything left, just a pack of lies that they'll carry to their shameful graves.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

66. With all due respect to Senator Kerry who I campaigned for for months...

He let the swift boys do this to him. And it registered as a weakness to a lot of voters. And I don't know that he can get past this in 2008, unless he goes after them with full guns blazing. Still may be too little too late.

[wisteria]

72. Actually, it was the media that keep the lies alive!

The Kerry campaign had dealt with this group of jerks in May of 2004 and they were successful. When the group resurfaced in August, they were originally Delft with in the same way, only this time the Swift's had the assistance of the media to support their efforts. Even when the media was discrediting the SBV claims they would play the ads over and over again. People didn't listen they just watched the ads. Once it was realized the media was aiding and abetting the SBV and indirectly the Bush camp, Kerry came out fighting. I feel we give these jerks way to much credit for Kerry's loss. I do however, think they need to be discredited one way or another. I think they should be challenged to provide document ion for all their lies -which we know they can't-then Kerry should demand a public apology and a written reiteration from everyone of them.
As far as this being an issue in 2008, I just don't think it will carry that much weight. With Kerry's records all released it takes the air out of their balloon.
The SBV are given way to much credit for Kerry's loss here at DU. I really think it was the war and security issues that were most on people's minds and people feared change.

[kerrygoddess]

77. He let? Excuse me?

As Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. said in his Vanity Fair article in May – The Disinformation Society, “No matter who the Democratic nominee was, this machinery had the capacity to discredit and destroy him.”

http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1035

Maybe some righteous indignation from the LEFT might have helped instead of the constant handwringing we got from the left!

"But the most important thing that was missing was gut level righteous indignation. What I should have seen was “We have sunk so low in this country that we are willing to denigrate a man’s war service, simply because he is a Democrat. Anybody who would do that isn’t worth the shrapnel in John Kerry’s ass.”

That’s all we should have heard then, that’s all we ought to hear now. Some things are sacred and a soldier’s honorable war service to our country is one of them." - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1055

[kskiska]

69. With regard to incidents in Vietnam

Ted Koppel traveled to the area where various incidents occurred and spoke to the locals who witnessed such events, and they backed up Kerry's version of his Vietnam history. Koppel said he went there intending to air whatever he found, regardless of which candidate it helped or hurt. It got no coverage other than the airing of the program.

[kerrygoddess]

73. Thanks, I remember that news piece

I do believe it got a quip or two in the print media, but not much.

[baron j]

76. I still can't believe his Vietnam record was ever an issue...

Hypothetically, if all he had ever done over there was bask in the sun on a beach, at least Kerry went, yet everybody got their knickers in a twist when AWOL and or deserter dumbya's record was mildly prodded. Yikes! Are we living on Bizarro World?

A poster on another message board whose screen name I can't recall summed it up best: "When Kerry was smelling cordite and getting shot at, bush was sniffing cocaine and doing shots."

[kerrygoddess]

78. Thank you! I could not agree more.

Yes we are living in a Bizarro World!