Let's drum Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska out of the party!

[jswordy]

From the "LA Times":

The only Democrat to vote for Brown was Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska, a conservative who often votes with Republicans.

[Richardo]

1. Look - I don't care if it's Ben Nelson, Lieberman or even Zell Miller

Dems need headcount. Everybody with a 'D' next to their name counts. We've got 6 seats to take to get committee heads and control of the agenda in the Senate.

Why make it 7, 8 or 9 seats by making these idiots Republicans?

[jswordy]

2. Tell ya what, look at Nelson's overall voting record then...

...run on back here and tell me how he helps us in yer head count scenario.

[Richardo]

6. If it gets Kerry, Schumer, Clinton, etc committee chairs, it's worth it

Hell, if Trent Lott had a D next to his name, I'd be OK.

Control first, ideological purity later.

[Jack Rabbit]

18. Answer

Senator Nelson, before he starts casting all those offensive votes, casts his vote with the Democrats on the continuing resolution when Congress begins a new session. Now, if he is one of 51 Democrats (instead of 45), it allows the Democrats to determine who is on which committee and who chairs that committee.

I don't know if that is enough for you, but that is the answer. It was the one and only thing for which Zell Miller was any good.

[Capn Sunshine]

5. WTF is the difference if they vote like a republican?

What possible good is a headcount without the attendant solidarity you are implying?

[Richardo]

7. I'm not talking vote totals, I'm talking control of the agenda...

Judicial filibuster would not have even been necessary if the Dems were the majority party. The names would never have even come out of committee.

You can put the ideologically questionable ones where they can't do as much damage.

[Yupster]

16. You're right Richardo

It's not who has the votes -- it's who decides what gets brought up for a vote.

[DrGonzoLives]

10. If we are in the majority

we control committees, which is where the real legislative work is.

I'm not saying that the Democrats shouldn't, say, direct money elsewhere that would have gone to his campaign, or run someone against him in the primary, but right now, we need the numbers. We're five senators away from making any filibuster irrelevant, at which point, it's all over.

[Skidmore]

13. Kinda pointless to have a head count when it cannot

be actualized in meaningful votes.

[Hippo_Tron]

26. I'll agree with that sentiment, except for Zell Miller

We can't have our Senators being the keynote speaker at the GOP convention.

[kittenpants]

3. Isn't he the one that bush likes to call "benator" n/t

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jsw_81]

8. Yes, let's toss all moderate or conservative Dems out ASAP

Then our minority status will last even longer! Cool! Not.

[Constitution]

21. You are clearly unfamiliar with the definitions of moderate & coservative

Bem Nelson is a neo-con who somehow registered with the wrong party.

[jsw_81]

33. And you're clearly unfamiliar with Nebraska

Every single county save one went for Bush last fall and you expect its moderate Democratic senator to vote like Paul Wellstone? Not gonna happen.

[paulk]

9. Do you have a Nebraska Democrat waiting in the wings

to take his place? Who'll vote the way you want?

Have you ever been to Nebraska?

[DrGonzoLives]

11. I hear William Jennings Bryan has some ambitions

Something about cross of gold and free silver or something or other.

[paulk]

12. times have sure changed...

"The youthful Attorney General Stewart, desperately trying to bring the performance within legal bounds, asked, "What is the meaning of this harangue?" "To show up fundamentalism," shouted Mr. Darrow, lifting his voice in one of the few moments of anger he showed, "to prevent bigots and ignoramuses from controlling the educational system of the United States."

Mr. Bryan sprang to his feet, his face purple, and shook his fist in the lowering, gnarled face of Mr. Darrow, while he cried: "To protect the word of God from the greatest atheist and agnostic in the United States." "

-from an H.L. Mencken column

[Hippo_Tron]

23. If you could bring him back from the dead, I'd vote for him over Nelson

But unfortunately, that isn't an option. Nelson is what we're stuck with.

[annabanana]

14. thank you for a "teaching" opportunity. . . . n/t

[brentspeak]

15. Nelson would have voted "NO" if the Dems had the votes

He's just doing what he thinks is politically expedient. If his would have been a deciding vote, he would have voted against her.

[The Blue Knight]

17. Why drive Nelson out? So the R's can have a bigger majority?

Ben Nelson isn't from California. Ben Nelson isn't from Vermont, Oregon, or Wisconsin. Ben Nelson is from NEBRASKA, a state that's very much red.

Nebraska isn't going to elect a Barbra Boxer. Sorry, but that's just how it is. Nelson is a conservative Democrat. I'd rather have a Conservative Democrat than a Republican in office any day of the week. Especially considering this Senate is going to determine a new SC justice here soon. We need every Democrat we can get, conservative or liberal. I thought the Democrats were supposed to be a big tent party?

Ben Nelson is playing smart politics to hold onto his seat. You can bet your sweet ass next time he is up for re-election, the Republicans will come at him with all they've got. They'll try to pick apart his voting record to try to paint him as too liberal for the people of Nebraska. Votes like this (which, didn't change the outcome anyway) make it that much harder. Once again, it's smart politics.

But,I seriously want to know--why in the fuck would we want to "drum out" Senator Ben Nelson?

[Constitution]

22. And who's going to give them a bigger majority?

Are you saying that if we nominate someone who supports the Democratic point of view, the Democrats in Nebraska won't vote for him or her? I'm placing my money on the Democrat, should we decide to run one.

[Hippo_Tron]

25. There aren't enough Democrats in Nebraska to win a Senate seat

To win a Senate seat. Nebraska voted 67% for Bush and 33% for Kerry. Ben Nelson has to appeal to some Republican voters or he will lose his Senate seat in a landslide. That being said, I think that there are better ways to win over voters than voting like a Republican. I think the best way is to be realistic about social issues, but vote for and campaign on economically populist issues. But Ben Nelson has obviously has chosen not to do this and there's little that I can do about that. The point he was making however, is that Nelson can't win a Senate seat by appealing to just Democrats. He needs Republican votes to win and he can't do that by voting like and being labled as a liberal democrat.

[Vadem]

27. Yes, we need every Democrat! So is Nelson a Democrat when

he votes for George Bush's right wing nominees? NO, he isn't voting with the Dems! So what good is he? It totally pisses me off when so-called Dems have a D after their name, yet consistently vote R! I feel the urge to purge!

[Hippo_Tron]

29. He means the vote to give the Democrats control of the Senate

Which I'll admit is the ONLY thing that Nelson is useful for.

[Constitution]

20. Is that wishful thinking?

This guy and Zell Miller were like twins and Nelson continues to hold up Miller's point of view in the Senate.

[Hippo_Tron]

30. That's where you're dead wrong

Nelson has had many opportunities to vote with us when it would've mattered and he chose not to. ANWR and the 2003 tax cuts to name two of many instances. ANWR I don't care about, the tax cuts I do because I think that economic populism is something that he could and should actually campaign on.

That being said, find me another Democrat who can win in Nebraska and I'll support him. Until that day comes, Nelson it is.

[Constitution]

19. "often" is an understatement. "Almost always" is more like it.

It doesn't make sense to run Republicans in our primaries. Aren't there ANY Democrats in Nebraska who would be willing to run?

[Vadem]

24. I'm with you on drumming Ben Nelson out of the Dem Party!...

Harry Reid should ban him from the Dem Caucus; why can't the Dems vote in lockstep like the Pubs?? What in the world does Ben Nelson get out of voting with the Pubs? I say that we should run a Democrat against Nelson in the next election! A real Democrat! What is the good of having a DINO in office? They certainly don't vote with the Dems! Let's get rid of all of them!

[Hippo_Tron]

28. Chaffee doesn't vote in lockstep with the pubs

Chaffee is our equivalent of Ben Nelson, both of which would lose their Senate seats in a heartbeat if they voted in lockstep with their respective parties. The reason the pubs vote more in lockstep is that one, there are simply more red states than blue states and thus more senators in states where the GOP national ticket won a majority. Two, the Democrats don't have a pulpit to promote a national agenda, or if they do, they either aren't using it or aren't being heard. We can't expect the red state dems to vote with us on many issues when all their constituents know is that the Bush agenda is good for them and that the Democratic party is the evil Washington establishment liburls who are trying to ruin America. I admit that it would help if people like Nelson would help promote our agend a little bit more as well, but as a national party we need to make our message heard in more places.

Oh yea, the third reason that the pub Senators vote in lockstep is that half of them can't think for themselves.

[ISUGRADIA]

31. yeah, the bench is so wide in NE for Dems to run for higher office

The Repub leadership lets Senators like Snowe, Collins, Chafee, to name a few get away with a lot of "liberal" votes because they know they could not get reelected as wingers in their state. Dems should do the same. Run a liberal Dem in CT and watch him win. Run one in NE and watch him get creamed.

[last_texas_dem]

32. I think Nelson could afford to be a bit more liberal

On issues like judicial nominations, your average voter pays little to no attention. Certainly, the 'pugs would spin not supporting *'s right-wing judicial nominations as not "supporting the President", but that only does much for a President with long coattails- and it's disputable that Shrub is going to have much in the way of coattails in the '06 election.

So, yes, I would like Nelson to be a bit more of a liberal (I think he really is more of one in his heart than his voting record indicates; not that that counts for much.) At the same time, I can see why he's scared of sticking out too much. NE is * country, even more than states like TX and AL, and, generally, a moderate to conservative Dem coming from a red state is much, much preferable to the typical wingut Repugs that come out of red states. (Especially the Plains states; think Coburn and Inhofe from OK, Brownback from KS, Thune from SD= a scary bunch.)

So Nelson running a little to the right as he nears reelection is understandable and justifiable to a point. I just don't think it can be unnecessarily taken to an extreme. Remember Landrieu in '02? She ran to the right throughout the campaign and only managed 46-percent of the vote in the General Election. She secured a better but still close 52-percent in her runoff (LA does this if in a General Election race a candidate fails to garner 50-percent+ of the vote) and many said this was because during the tail-end of the campaign she started backing away from her past support of Shrub and running as her own person. From a couple articles I've read, it sounds like Nelson may have enough of a support group and enough popularity in NE to run on his own and on what he has done for the state, rather than having to cozy up to *. ND is about as conservative as NE and has two Dem Senators who seem to be reasonably popular and don't vote nearly as conservatively as Nelson. Perhaps there are some special circumstances in the states I'm not taking into consideration, though.

As long as conservative Dems don't start using all or most of their clout to attack the Democratic party, like Zell Miller and that old nutty Congressman James Traficant, they are better off in the party than out of it in my book. What Zell did was indefensible, what Nelson is doing could mean the difference between having a D or an R Senator from NE. It is hard to draw the line between what is necessary for one's political survival and what is unnecessarily selling-out, though.