Everyone who is dissing or not supporting Dean, questions:

[Carolab]

What possible good do you think this does?

What happens if you continue to criticize him?

Do you want him to leave his post?

Do you want him to start LYING like Ken Mehlman?

Do you want him to stifle and be more "Republican lite" like the "party leaders"?

When he said that "a lot of them never made an honest living", did you read the full context of the remark? Do you understand the reason for it? (Remember the way David Brooks distorted Democrats and basically implied they were a bunch of lazy people who want the government to help them because they don't think they can make it on their own?)

When he said that the Republicans are "white Christians", have you looked at the demographics of that party? (Remember how hard the Republicans have worked to gain the black and Latino vote? Mostly through churches, and by talking about same sex marriage, etc.?)

Don't you realize "they" are just distracting from everything else with this? Let's focus on the real issues here and STOP criticizing Dean for telling the truth, okay?

[Psephos]

1. Is it patriotic to criticize America?

Just a thought. We can't have it both ways.

I think constructive criticism is good. You might say that it's "patriotic" to the Democratic Party. Some of us think Dean needs to say more, some think he needs to say less. Although I have some concerns, I'm willing to judge the man by his results, and that will take a little time.

Meanwhile, attempting to suppress discussion or criticism of him seems dangerously close to fundie-style absolutism. There are many other skills needed to be a successful DNC chair beyond being a teller of truth. We have to be able to discuss our own truth, too - and that includes feeling free to express our thoughts about what those running our party are doing.

These are my opinions.

Peace.

[Carolab]

2. There is a right way and a wrong way to do it.

If you want Dean to hear your comments, send them to him.


www.democrats.org

[Psephos]

4. I say this with friendly intentions, but I can't agree with you

It's either a good thing to feel free to express concerns, or it's not. I'm talking about Dems now.

If Dean makes one of us nervous, I think there's little benefit in pretending otherwise. Emailing Dean with concerns is good. Discussion among all party members is also good, and healthy.

There IS a big difference between "patriotic" or constructive criticism, and destructive criticism. I think we can both agree about that. I don't blanket endorse the methods used by all of Dean's critics. But what's the alternative? Follow someone else's rules about what we can and can't say? Shiverrrrrrr.

Bottom line is, we will soon enough to be able to judge him by his results. I'm willing to wait. (Personally, I love Howie and his mouth, and was big on him right from the beginning - as a candidate.)

Peace.

[Avalux]

6. Yes it is patriotic to criticize America - what a question!

"There are many other skills needed to be a successful DNC chair beyond being a teller of truth".

I don't agree with you. Right now, the most important thing Dean can do is tell the truth because NO ONE ELSE IS DOING IT. He's also raising cash and I predict now that he's speaking out, more will come in.

[Psephos]

10. I think you misunderstood me there

My view is that if it's patriotic to criticize America (which I adamantly believe), then it's patriotic to the Democratic Party to criticize Dean - provided it's constructive criticism. No one gets a free ride.

I am, however, quite willing to judge him by his results, and it will take a while before we can do that.

As far as the skill set required for being chair of a national political party is concerned, I wish that being honest and brash was all it takes, but history is not on your side.

So, I keep my fingers crossed. I still like Howie waaaaaaay better than Terry McAwful.

Peace.

[Avalux]

11. OK - thanks

and one thing to remember, anyone with a brash style like Dean will have detractors, that's a given.

At least Howard IS different that Terry - I remember getting so angry because Terry was such a wimp. We shall see....:hi:

[hfojvt]

3. Begala said Repblicans are 82% white Christians

trouble is, I just looked at the statistics. Surprisingly, the USA is 82.2% white. I think it is probably about 80% Christian as well. So maybe 70% of Democrats are white Christians. The point is that registered Democrats can and do vote Republican, and registered Republicans can and do vote Democratic. We want to encourage more people to vote the right way, regardless of party affiliation or "race" - not to feel that one party, through the voice of its leader, is against their "race" or religion. I always try to distinguish, when I am bashing Republicans, between elected Republicans and voting Republicans.

[LoZoccolo]

5. In response...

What possible good do you think this does?

It emphasizes an important skill in politics: getting your message understood the first time it's spoken.

What happens if you continue to criticize him?

People will learn much about the skill I talk about in response to question number one.

Do you want him to leave his post?

No.

Do you want him to start LYING like Ken Mehlman?

No.

Do you want him to stifle and be more "Republican lite" like the "party leaders"?

I reject the premise of the question. Anyone can accuse anyone of being "Republican lite", and not everything they do is "stifling" in the sense you may mean it.

[sendero]

7. That's about as hypocritical..

... as the average Republican.

"It emphasizes an important skill in politics: getting your message understood the first time it's spoken."

This coming from a univision Kerry supporter. Let me know when mr nuanced handwringing "I voted for it before I voted against it" Kerry accomplishes this for the first time.

Also let me know when Kerry stops crying in his teacup because Dean is getting more quality air time in a week than he has since Nov 2004.

If a politician yaps his ass off but nobody hears him, does it matter?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LoZoccolo]

14. I have not posted one single anti-Dean thread.

You just have a paranoid and authoritarian approach to him, that's all.

You should check that place out, though. It's like a women-in-prison film or something. All sorts of beligerent people tearing each other up with domineering rhetoric, some of which have been banned from here, and others who like, are the less people-skilled ones you see in GD and GDP.

[sendero]

15. I speak the way I want to..

... and when people who've made a career Kerry-boosting here, it does piss me off when they spout some ridiculous bullshit about being "on message". Oh really. Well at least someone is listening to Dean.

Really, you have a lot of gall. And I'm not remotely interested in visiting any site that you'd find interesting.

[LoZoccolo]

17. And I ignore the way I want to.

Just like anyone else can when they deal with someone who's choosing not to display basic people skills.

Hey, at least I didn't alert your post. :cry:

Your loss regarding the site, anyways. What's the matter, afraid to go somewhere where like four other people are playing the same games you are?

[sendero]

18. Get one thing clear..

... I don't alert posts. Not anyone's.

[LoZoccolo]

16. Waaaah! Waaaah!

:cry:

[theboss]

8. I don't want him as chairman

There....I said it. I think he is a poor politician. It's not his issues or ideas I object to. It's his tactics. He does not think things through (which is remarkable for a doctor) and is going to do us long-term harm.

[ClarkUSA]

13. See what Dean said after meeting with Reid today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1842221