Why do working people vote against their own interests?

[demosincebirth]

I want to get some issues and ideas to answer a winger in the LTTE section of our paper.
I know some, but hearing from another source will expand my answer

[LaurenG]

1. Brainwashed

Into believing that who they are voting for has their best interest at heart. Like that will ever be true.:dilemma:

[Imagevision]

41. Define - "their own interests" ??

[demosincebirth]

46. Example: union men and women voting for republicans, who in turn,

will weaken labor laws in favor of their corporate cronies.

This is the example that keeps me scratching may head.
Also, poor whites who vote republican.

[BlueEyedSon]

2. Christ, fags, terraterraTERRA!

[TomClash]

3. This is easy

They don't think the Democratic Party really represents or cares about their economic interests. The Dems have no proposals to stop outsourcing, save pensions, create well-paying jobs, get health care, increase wages in dead end jobs. The Dems are so beholden to corporate interests and the upper class that they allow "social issues" to take center stage.

If you're a working class Christian - the kind of people who voted for FDR in droves - why should you vote for the heathen Dems when the Repukes speak your language? The only reason is economics and we don't talk about that enough.

[OneTwentyoNine]

4. Kansas--Vote yourself into serfdom

Boeing Wichita just shit canned 1200 employees,some with as many as 30+ years in an attempt to rig up a union vote.All union stewards at the plant were given their walking papers,most fired had around 15-30 years with the company.

Onyx is going to buy the place but the machinists union had to approve the contract for the sale to go through.Well...being here in good old Kansas that means that around 780 of those 1200 always vote Republican. It always comes back to bite you in the ass one way or another when you vote for those fucks.

[Ikonoklast]

7. Great object lesson!

I will use this the next time I tell my three kids to be loyal only to your education and skill set in the labor marketplace. Loyalty to ones' employer and a life-time of hard work will always be rewarded with a stab in the back.

[sam sarrha]

13. I worked for Boeing.. a black supervisor harassed me so bad that the KKK

tried to recruit me in the parking lot after work one day.. Their management system is really belligerent

[Dinger]

28. Thomas Frank: "What's The Matter With Kansas" Nuff Said (nt)

[TheFarseer]

39. So what? That was Boeing not Republicans

I'm just making the point that I'm not sure people make that connection between big business and repukes. It seems obvious to you and me, but I think alot of people are not making that connection.

[terrya]

40. Thomas Frank's book explains it perfectly.

[Ikonoklast]

5. They want to be like those in power

They can emulate the life-style of the rich and powerful by voting for them. The powers that be are holding out for the underclass that yes, you too may have all this one day, just vote us in and you too can date Paris Hilton, party all night and never work or have a worry in the world. They sell fantasy like the purveyors of lottery tickets; even though the suckers lose they still come back for more. To me it seems like some sort of mass psychosis.

[OKNancy]

15. Exactly

It's the American myth - some day you too will be rich. They are just protecting their future ( in their mind)

[HughBeaumont]

20. Unfortunately, Horatio Alger is DEAD.

Morte.

As a doornail.

Once manufacturing is completely 86'd from America and the high-tech, good paying jobs in R&D, medicine and others are offshored, effectively devaluing college degrees, bargaining power and salaries, what's going to be your next skillset? Genome research? Biophysics? Superconductivity? Sure, EVERY American has the potential to learn those easy professions. It only takes, what, 4-8 years, excluding on-the-job experience of course? That's not a long time to put life and bills on hold, is it?

Folks, hate to be the bearer of bad tidings, but even those careers aren't location-bound.

It gets even worse when you think that last year's hot careers took DECADES to come to fruition. Someone better come up with not one but SEVERAL silver bullets and FAST. That is, unless you LIKE zero mobility and moving backwards as you get older . . .

[punpirate]

6. Even the people who have thought about it...

... a lot and have written on it (such as Thomas Franks in his What's the Matter with Kansas) don't have definitive answers, except, perhaps, to suggest that average people are fed up with what they perceive as the dissolution of order in society and are therefore susceptible to the appeals of cynical and manipulative politicians.

My own perspective is that from the early `70s, the right has tried to (and lately succeeded in) dominating the public discourse, setting the agenda and providing the buzz words which have some resonance with such disgruntled people. Those average workers are convinced that such manipulative politicians are working hard to overcome, principally, the liberal bias in society and to undo Roe v. Wade, where, in fact, those politicians have no intention of actually overturning such law and, instead, work to further the corporate agendas of their campaign contributors.

It's a classic bait-and-switch routine in which the average voter is caught up thoroughly. The rhetoric is more powerfully affecting to them than the results of the politicians they support.

They don't know they're being conned--the messages they're getting are both subtle and persuasive and reinforce their own views about the culture--views that have been, in turn, shaped by more than thirty years of right-wing propaganda from many different angles and venues.

You might look at:

http://www.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=21

Then go to the document mentioned in the link above:

http://www.mediatransparency.org/story.php?storyID=22

Powell, in this, was talking about preserving the reputation of business, but the methods he outlines were adopted almost in lock-step by the neo-conservatives and the religious right to accomplish their aims. It's effectively the outline of a comprehensive propaganda plan and a collection of propaganda techniques which have been highly effective.

Cheers.

[oscar111]

9. RACISM: they see the cause of all ills as a race

so to make everything better, clobber that race.. keep em down and out.

compare the Confederacy with the red states... gop votes come from racists.

race is a popular CAUSE THEORY

our dem cause theory is ECONOMICS.

our economic points fall on deaf ears because they are thinking about race as the big cause of all that is wrong.

clobber that race... and "economics will get better... redneks will get jobs with no X taking the jobs first.. et et et"

[DrRang]

14. They have a deep suspicion that liberals . . .

are talking about stuff that they wouldn't agree with even if they could understand it.

They would rather think that the problems in their lives happen because some blue "they" is giving what they deserve to others who don't deserve it than think that some red "they" is playing them for suckers.

[punpirate]

18. I don't think it can be as simply defined as motivated...

... by racism. Racism is a component, in some places, but it's not the sole and dominant theme.

In the case of Kansas, had you read Tom Franks' book, you would have seen that the state's history is violently anti-racist--proponents of slavery from Missouri had at one time overtaken the territorial government of Kansas with the intention of making it a slavery state and there were bloody wars undertaken by Kansas abolitionists to evict those usurpers. Later, Kansas was the cultural and political seat of the anti-trust Populists.

Something more complicated is at work in this than just simple racism.

Cheers.

[beaconess]

24. It's not motivated by racism - it's motivated by fear. Racism is the tool

used to underpin that fear.

[Yupster]

38. Agree punpirate

In some of the reddest areas, there are no minorities to be against.

I don't think racism is the reason.

[leftofthedial]

8. stupidity, ignorance, religious insanity, delusion,

bigotry, misguided zealotry


brainwashing by relentless RW lies that appeal to the above.

[Vickers]

10. Kuz keepin' kweers from kissin' is more important than a job

:eyes:

[gratuitous]

42. Belted, deeeep to left center, way back, way back . . .

GONE! Home run for Vickers!

The GOP has done an astonishingly good job of persuading a lot of people that their interests are better served by such sideshows as gay marriage or Democratic Bible banning than in whether or not they have a job next month, or if they can afford to take their kid to the doctor when she gets sick.

Dean seems to be doing a good job of taking the focus off the fluff, which angers the media whores and their overlords no end.

[rogerashton]

11. The Marxist term is "false consciousness."

Odd not to see it even mentioned on a "left" message board.

[rogerashton]

30. False consciousness --

A personal message asked me to elaborate.

I'm not really an expert on these aspects of Marxism -- I know Marxist economics reasonably well, although the teacher who taught me what I was taught of it was a left-Austrian Green! (Herman Daly by name).

In a Marxist framework, the main explanatory framework is class struggle, and under capitalism there are just two historically relevant classes: the capitalist (I prefer to say "billionaire") and working classes. (Other classes, such as peasants and yeoman farmers, may be numercally important at a given time and place but are fossils of earlier systems). The word "ideology," which I believe comes from Marx' early work The German Ideology, refers to discourses that serve the interests of the ruling class. A "left ideology" is something of an oxymoron.

The working class, both because it is newly emerged (in Marx' time) and because it is subject to capitalist ideology, initially does not perceive its class interest. Thus although it is a "class in itself" it is not a "class for itself." In the common ideas of the working class, then, a "false consciousness" is initially the counterpart (and product) of the capitalists' ideology. The job of Marxists then is to develop and extend to the working class, not a working class ideology, but a "scientific" consciousness of working class interests and status, which will make the working class a "class for itself," and coupled with the increasing numbers and militancy of the working class pave the way for the working class to take power and abolish the capitalist class qua class, creating a classless society.

Now, clearly, there are some things wrong with this picture. (Small wonder: it is a view from about 1850 and very optimistic in its own terms). One thing that is hard to understand is how false consciousness seems to have become far more widespread and entrenched in the last 50 years (here in the USA especially) after the working class had developed some self-consciousness in the first half of the 20th. Looked at otherwise, what is hard for a Marxist to understand is the remarkable, recurrent and persistent success of capitalist ideology in generating false consciousness in the working class. The major mechanisms seem clear enough -- promotion of the resurgence of antihumanist "traditional" ideas, such as portrayal of some groups as natural masters over others (Japanese over Chinese, Germans over non-Aryans, men over women), militarism, religion, and racism -- appeal to the emotions of some workers and are very effective in dividing the working class against itself. What is extraordinary is that these strategems still work, and work so very well, after their disastrous failures in the 20th century and the millions of lives they have cost.

Anyway: it is no mystery that the medial, educational institutions and other information-providers encourage and create false consciousness on the part of workers. That is the job they are paid to do in the interests of the billionaire class.

[Upfront]

12. Guns, Gays, and God

Any one of these issues or all three. Never doubt the NRA effect on people who should vote Democratic but don't. I am not gay bashing just stating what I have seen and heard. I was the polital action chairman in a 600 man local union for many years and the biggest fight that never went away was the Democrats want to take my guns. Still is today. This is in the Central Michigan area.

[orpupilofnature57]

17. Yes, in other words" Kkkarl's Theocracy "

[Sgt. Baker]

16. have to admit

I have done it. My whole life I put my needs aside for others. Suffer hardships to be sure someone else didn't have to. I put myself second to what I think would be the best for others. To think of only what I want is selfish. I'm a single person in this country and know that some of my beliefs are not necessarily the best thing for the people.

[kentuck]

19. "Morality" issues....

trump starvation.

[kodi]

21. you sure they are? your value system may not be theirs

someone may vote for a person whose actions in the legislature may hurt their interests as you define them, but the fact that they do so vote that way is evidence that what you call their intersts is not what the voter calls his/her interests.

if you wish to argue about interests, you better start with what values motivate voters. it is not always economic values that trump others in the mind of voters.

the right has done an admirable job of articulating values other than economic and those values are what cause voters to return again and again to the polls and vote republican.

one need not agree with those values, nor be blind to the manipulation of the articulation of these values in the voters mind to uinderstand that people are quite willing to bear economic sacrifices for what they consider is a higher purpose.

[beaconess]

22. Depends on what interests you're talking about

America's dirty little secret is that, in order to obtain the support of the masses, the power structure has always provided to poor whites a sense of cultural superiority, regardless of how economically deprived they are, by enabling them to always have someone to look down on.

The Republicans have continued to manipulate and take advantage of this by assuring poor and middle income whites - often with a wink, a nod, and coded language ("reverse discrimination," "welfare queens," etc.) - that they will maintain this social structure.

Many working class and poor whites - often more out of fear and insecurity than outright racial hostility - buy into this promise of social superiority, even when it conflicts with their own interests.

Historian Roger Wilkins writes very eloquently about this in his book, "Jefferson's Pillow."

[demosincebirth]

45. I think you hit it right on the nose.

[TreasonousBastard]

23. Because they don't think they are voting against their interests...

and they often don't know just what their interests really are.

I haven't looked at this stuff in years, but there's a lot in the psychological literature about this sort of disconnect, and it's crossed over into economic and sociological literature.

Several small things to ponder...

During the campaign last year, the NYT went to the bible belt and did a bunch of interviews. One of them was someone who was out of work and had his benefits cut, both the unemployment and the benefit cut directly atrributable to Shrub policies. When asked why he supported Shrub, he sort of compared himself to Job and said his personal economic suffering was secondary to the more important cause of bringing morality back to the country.

In a number of surveys, over 50% of the respondants believed they were in the top 10% of income.

Hardly anyone wants to be identified as "working class" any more. It's become an epithet, and fighting for your rights as a worker just proves that you are the underdog, which you don't want to admit. On top of that, some unions have been so successful that many members have lost all connection to their roots or other workers. Ask a longshoreman making $200,000 a year just what seolidarity he feels with a hotel maid or Wal-Mart associate. While you'r at it, ask anyone in a labor battle just how they feel about their personal risk/benefit analysis of maybe getting better pay and benefits vs. losing what little they now have.

I keep thinking about an episode of DS9 that pretty well sums up a lot of what's going on. Quark was screwing his casino employees royally, and they were trying to form a union. Rom kept getting in the way and when asked why, since he was getting screwed the worst, said "You don't understand. We Ferengi don't want to stop the screwing. Our goal is to get to the point where we can do the screwing."

[abluelady]

25. The Republican Reality

has changed but the average American doesn't realize it. Many people vote Republican because their parents did. So even though the party is no longer their parents' party, they still vote it. Somebody needs to "get real" with these people.

I do believe the gays, guns and god folks are fewer than the others, just louder.

[PaDem]

26. Most people believe that they will be wealthy......

in a matter of years. Also, many folks think that being wealthy is moral and upright. If your rich you are doing something "right". I think many folks don't resent the wealthy and policies that benefit them, instead they want to join them as beneficiaries of favorable policy. The way to do that in their eyes is to "work harder" or work more.

[oscar111]

27. HATE RADIO is the second large reason

RR came to power because racists were frothing over the sixties integration.

Later, hate radio arrived.. about '9O, and added much strenhth to the GOP.

Now, we see the two factors together making most of the GOP strength.

working americans hear the GOP views on the wedge culture issues, and not our views. Working Americans dont even hear our views on the economy in any detail. Just sound bites during rare campaigns.

So.. racism is the hidden virulent strength of the GOP,

and HATE RADIO adds to it by filling up the voter's mind to the exclusion of dem ideas.

Hope? offer racists Jobs for All.. see my sig.. so no competition for scarce jobs with minorities.

and guarantee house values so no fear of blockbusting.

finally, build AAR. fliers... Yahoo Group.. free... for AAR supporters to get a station in your town... buy one line ads for AAR in weeklies... urge aflcio and DNC to give grants to AAR, ETC.

[liberaliraqvet26]

29. The poor souls don't know any better...

and Murdoch, Limpballs , Rove and their friendly neighborhood preacher do a helluva job on them. Did I also mention that we can't get our shit together.

[xchrom]

31. fighting the imagined ''cold war'' at home.

liberals are ''unamerican'' and therefore the enemy.

[The2ndWheel]

32. It's tough

to rally around economics when you're competing against billions of other people around the world.

[kerrygoddess]

33. Because they have been grossly misinformed!

Robert Kennedy Jr - " I get the same response as I do from blue-state residents, except for this: red-state voters are always asking, “How come I haven’t heard this before?” The reason is that they’re getting their news from Rush Limbaugh, Fox News, and the Sinclair network, which are not telling them the truth." - http://www.lightupthedarkness.org/blog/default.asp?view=plink&id=1063

[QC]

34. Economic interests aren't the only ones. n/t

[AirAmFan]

35. Exposure to thousands of repetitions of carefully-crafted propaganda

/ advertising messages, the same reason most people waste well over 100 percent of their income on other useless overpriced and harmful corporate products . It pays to advertise. Think of the American people as always watching TV with the sound off, and always hearing from Limbaugh and other hate radio shows only those three second sound bytes that are repeated at least twenty times an hour: "family values", "culture of life", "leave no child behind", "limited government", "special interests". "national security", "war against terror"

Rove gave the new Homeland Security Department one mission that was far more important than actual counterterrorism: "two homeland security photo-ops a month" for Dubya. Dubya is so stupid and so inarticulate that special blue backdrops must be constructed for every speaking engagement or photo, emblazoned with the same catchphrases repeated over the radio as "talking points" of the day.

Historians give Michael Deaver, David Gergen and other Reagan image-makers 25 years ago credit for masterminding the Republican PR media control strategy that has led us to this moment:

From http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ronald_Reagan/On_Bended_Knee.html :

"Deaver, Gergen and their colleagues effectively rewrote the rules of presidential image-making. On the basis of a sophisticated analysis of the American news media--how it worked, which buttons to push when, what techniques had and had not worked for previous administrations--they introduced a new model for packaging the nation's top politician and using the press to sell him to the American public. Their objective was not simply to tame the press but to transform it into an unwitting mouthpiece of the government; it was one of Gergen's guiding assumptions that the administration simply could not govern effectively unless it could "get the right story out" through the "filter" of the press.

The extensive public relations apparatus assembled within the Reagan White House did most of its work out of sight-in private White House meetings each morning to set the "line of the day" that would later be fed to the press; in regular phone calls to the television networks intended to influence coverage of Reagan on the evening news; in quiet executive orders imposing extraordinary new government secrecy measures, including granting the FBI and CIA permission to infiltrate the press. It was Mike Deaver's special responsibility to provide a constant supply of visually attractive, prepackaged news stories-the kind that network television journalists in particular found irresistible....

What made relations with the press especially vital to the success of Reagan's presidency was the fact that much of his agenda was at odds with popular sentiment.... Reagan's 1981 economic recovery program (for example) combined significant cuts in social spending and federal regulations with fantastic tax reductions aimed overwhelmingly at the very wealthiest Americans. In the name of free enterprise, the administration advocated a massive subsidy program for America's corporations and rich citizens--not an easy thing to sell to average working- and middle-class Americans. Yet Reagan emerged from his first presidential summer gloriously triumphant, with Capitol Hill Democrats and Washington reporters alike convinced--falsely, as it happened--that he was the most popular President in decades.

The Reagan model worked so well that the relationship between the White House and the press will never be the same again. Long after Ronald Reagan has left the White House, the model of news management introduced during his tenure will remain behind, shaping press coverage and therefore public perception...."

--From "On Bended Knee: The Press and the Reagan Presidency", by Mark Hertsgaard.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

36. Most working people did vote their interests.

Kerry won the $50,000 and under vote and lost every other category, I believe. It was the white middle and upper class that put Bush in office.

[demosincebirth]

37. Thanks to everyone for their input.

Now, I can put up a helluva defense. Blow 'em right out of the water.

[Jade Fox]

43. Read this....

http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/03/12/int03326.html

[beyurslf]

44. As long as they have their guns, women have no rights, and gays can't

marry, then jobs, health care, and education can take care of themselves.