Does someone have a list of the nationalities of 911 hijackers?

[HeeBGBz]

I need to refute something someone said, but I need to recheck facts.

[Deep13]

1. My understanding is that they were all Saudis.

I don't have a source for that information, unfortunately.

[HockeyMom]

2. Atta was Egyptian

[unblock]

15 of the 19 were supposedly saudis

though i don't trust the identification of the attackers. it all happened WAY too quickly and without any second guessing.

why on earth no one suspects they might have used fake ids, i have no idea....

[dajoki]

10. just saw another fact about saudis

62% of suicide bombers in iraq, to this point, are saudis.

[Joacheme Misrahe]

11. What's your point?

So should we invade the Saudis?

[dajoki]

18. why did we invade iraq?

and i was just stating a fact i saw the other day is that a problem?

[Joacheme Misrahe]

23. We invaded Iraq

because fools wanted to pass statements around like "X perecent of Iraqis want to kill us".

I highly doubt your "62% of saudis are suicide bombers" claim (sounds like racist BS to me). The problem is MOST saudis don't wake up everyday thinking "gee, who shall I bomb today?"

MOST Saudis - like MOST people in every nation - just want to live there lives. They don't want to blow people up, contrary to what the local klan group may like to think.

Blaming all saudis for the hijacking or demonizing them as suicide bombers is as ignorant and racist as saying "I got robbed by a black guy therefore everyone who is black must be a criminal"

[unblock]

26. 62% of suicide bombers are saudis, NOT 62% of saudis are suicide bombers

BIG difference.

[Joacheme Misrahe]

30. Still the same thing

demonizing a nationality.

It's like saying the majority of inmates are not white. So what? All that means is the system is racist.

So so what even IF his figure is accurate. Although "62% of suicide bombers" MAY be Saudi - I'd wager 98-99%% of saudis would like to live their life with OUT suicide bombing being a part of it.

His figure is intended to demonize saudis. Period.

[dajoki]

32. no it's not

15 of 19 hijackers are saudis, that's how this started.

[Joacheme Misrahe]

37. So what?

Does that mean 15 out of 19 saudis everywhere are hijackers?

It didn't start with that. It started with the claim "62% of suicide bombers in iraq are saudis". You know full well what that figure is framed to do.

It would be more accurate and less racist to say ".2% of saudis are suicide bombers and of that .2% a majority of suicide bombings in iraq are carried out by them" Assuming that majority figure is correct.

[dajoki]

42. no, that's not what it means

and i never claimed that. go back and check this thread and you will see where it started. btw, this ridiculous so i give up. if i can find a site where it's posted i'll post the link. ok?

[unblock]

35. if anything, it's more to point out the idiocy of demonizing iraqis

i SERIOUSLY doubt an attack on saudi arabia is in anyone's calculus, with the possible exception of the VERY LAST stage of the pnac plan to conquer ALL of the middle east.

it is also helpful in understanding some of the cultural/religious/economic determinants of terrorism, which is key in ACTUALLY fighting it (not that that's what the shrubies are even trying to actually accomplish).

i agree that such statistics COULD be used to demonize a nationality or for similarly disasteful purposes, but that doesn't mean they automatically are.

you mentioned that the majority of inmate are not white, then drew a useful conclusion, to wit, that the system is racist. was your statistic indended to demonize non-whites? of course not, it could have been used as such, but you used it in a more useful and insightful fashion.

[uppityperson]

38. Not the same

62% of dogs are hairy vs 62% hairy creatures are dogs is not the same. I am not arguing whether or not this fact is right, that goes directly to that poster. However, for you, it is not the same. That's all. And welcome to DU.

[Joacheme Misrahe]

56. You have to look at it from a Rove perspective

Again, going back to prisons. If you listen to a right wing racist he will tell you that since the majority in prison are non-white then inherently anyone who is not white is criminal in nature. However, what that actually indicates is that the system is racist. However, for your casual FOX/CNN news viewer they may not come to that conclusion unless they are told. Rove knows this.

When CNN/FOX/etc come up with these numbers saying that make it sound like the majority of a minority is bad they are *only* giving you that number in order to make you believe that minority is mostly bad with out actually saying it.

It's the same way the media may not directly say Iraq was behind 9/11, but at the same time after the masses are done watching they actually believe Iraq was behind 9/11.

It's all about how things are presented. Take the past election and the medias "Bush now has a mandate" BS. You saw a map of most of the country being solid red, right? Well if you don't know the numbers behind that red you could easily come off thinking bush "won" by a great majority in all those solid red states. Of course what media didn't tell you was that he barely got over 50% in most places, and all of those solid "red" states should be at least half blue. Instead the whole state is colored red, and bush has a "mandate".

[dajoki]

33. i didn't say that

62% of the bombers not the whole country

[Doodlesweaver]

14. where?

where did you see that 62% of the suicide attacks in Iraq are Saudis?

[dajoki]

22. cnn

or msnbc, wasn't fux(don't watch it). they had a list of %'s of where they where from.

[Joacheme Misrahe]

24. Well then

if CNN says it then it MUST be true.

[dajoki]

29. just reporting what i saw

don't kill the messenger, please.

[uppityperson]

36. Numbers quoted without sources are suspect

It is nothing personal, it is that too many messengers are out to disrupt by giving false information. If you could find a source to directly quote, it would give you much better reception here.

[uppityperson]

20. Where did you get this "fact" from?

You need to give a link, or say where it is from, etc. Otherwise, sorry, it is just a number. 2.5423 is another number that might mean something somewhere, but would be inaccurate quoting as fact of my height.

[dajoki]

25. refer above

don't remember exactly, but DEFINATELY saw it. cnn or msnbc. could have been blitzer or inside politics, i just don't remember ok?

[Joacheme Misrahe]

28. Blitzer...

certainly the most reliable source for information. Convenient you "don't remember".

[dajoki]

31. what does that mean?

do you remember everything you see or hear in a day? i saw it and that's that. whether it's true or not i don't know, but it WAS definitely reported that way. now i know you can't believe everything you hear, so i'll get my team of investigaters and producers on the case right now.

[Joacheme Misrahe]

34. No I don't remember everything I hear

But if you want to make such claims on a public message board you should be willing to put up the evidence. "Oh gee I heard it some place but don't remember exactly where" doesn't cut it. If you can't find the source then don't make the claim.

I HIGHLY doubt CNN reported any such thing. CNN (like the vast majority of the media) has been in the "demonize iraq/syria/iran" at all costs mode for at least the past three years. Bushco wants the public to believe iraq/iran/syria were behind 9/11 and all other terrorism/bombings so he can invade them. Therefore the media has been leading people to believe that and has certainly NOT been leading them to believe anything else.

[dajoki]

39. why on eart would i make this up

please stop calling me a liar. this whole thing started with the hijackers and i only posted something i saw on tv.

[VLC98]

43. I know you're not making it up!

I heard the same thing on Lou Dobbs either on Thursday or Friday last week. In fact my husband e-mailed a comment about it to Lou hoping to get it read on air. (Didn't happen). Now whether the info was true or not is another story, but I definitely heard it!

[Joacheme Misrahe]

44. Then the poster is not making it up

CNN is. No doubt they've decided it's time to move on to the next PNAC targets.

[VLC98]

45. Link to transcript if you're interested. (Hope it works).

http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0506/10/ldt.01.html

[VLC98]

46. Meant to add....the claim was 61%. n/t

[dajoki]

49. yes i was off 1%, sorry

[VLC98]

52. I didn't mean it in a snotty way...

I just thought readers might search for the number 62 in the article and come up empty.

[dajoki]

53. that wasn't meant for you

i want to thank you for reminding me it was lou dobbs. i also found it in the wp. i posted it on here somewhere, so you can check it out. iknow i wasn't making it up, i am thankful someone else saw it also, thanks.:hi:

[dajoki]

50. no i'm not making it up

i told maybe blitzer but it could have been dobbs.btw, the wp is making it up also. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401270.html

[dajoki]

48. here is a link please read

btw, thank you. from wp. not where i first saw story but same facts http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401270.html

[uppityperson]

40. as above, Numbers quoted without sources are suspect

It is nothing personal, it is that too many messengers are out to disrupt by giving false information. If you could find a source to directly quote, it would give you much better reception here.

[HeeBGBz]

41. Always good to have links

Because someone will ALWAYS ask. As well they should. Just a good idea. Especially here on DU where we are all extremely suspect of any media anyway.

[dajoki]

47. HERE IS A LINK FROM WP PLEASE READ

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/14/AR2005051401270.html

[dajoki]

51. no responses?

[uppityperson]

54. patience grasshopper. Thanks for the link

I was involved elsewhere and sometimes take a while to get back to any particular conversation. Thanks for the link, I'll read it more in depth. Again, it is nothing personal against you but posting links to back up stories is always advised here. There are people who want to disrupt and cause problems and the best way to get the consideration you deserve is to post links. And be patient which can be difficult as people also tend to get into hot and heavy discussions. Again, thank you for the link.

[dajoki]

55. i was

my impatience was not with you, i was called a liar by someone else. that's the response i was waiting for. btw, it was on lou dobbs, transcript posted aboye by someone other than me.;-)

[uppityperson]

57. I read it more, thanks, missed this information before.

I find it interesting that the 911 hijackers and now bombers are from Mr.bush's friend's country, saudi Arabia. Is this one of those things where the people want to fight the other's administration and not destroy their own countries? The Arab world is a very interesting place, and political/geographical divisions do not always align.

[leesa]

16. 5 or 6 of them were found to be alive and well shortly after 9-11

It's all BS.

[calimary]

3. Oh brother - I had to look this up once, myself.

I forget the exact government site where I found it, but it was in (Republican) Christopher Shays' House subcommittee on national security or terrorism or some such thing. It cited the hijackers' passports - at least whatever was on record.

15 were Saudis, one from Egypt, two from the UAE, and one from Lebanon. But I'd check this myself if I were you. It's been awhile since I used this one (had to speak to my kid's then-sixth-grade class, and he's just finishing seventh grade this week) in a classroom discussion about news versus opinion. And YES, when I asked the class how many thought there were Iraqis among the hijackers, EVERYONE but my son raised his/her hand.

On edit - checked the link - it's a good one to verify this. I remember now. Thanks for posting that, dhinojosa! It's a KEEPER! I'm gonna put it in the Five-Star thread, too...

[dhinojosa]

4. Found this...

http://www.fairus.org/news/NewsPrint.cfm?ID=1205&c=14

[formerrepuke]

5. That's worth hanging on to.. in view of the fact there are a few too

may people who still believe the hijackers were from Iraq.

[HeeBGBz]

6. Someone on another board claiming they were Syrian

I had to knock down that little bit of propaganda.

[Just Me]

7. Sometimes, I wonder if we REALLY know who hijacked those planes.

:shrug: 'can't help myself.

[leesa]

19. It's never been investigated, why would we know?

Google Dov Zackheim and his amazing remote control apparatus he sells in his company that allows automatic piloting of passenger jets. Perhaps there were no hijackers at all.

[viperf117a]

8. Facts, 9/11 and Our Petrograds

They were Egyptian American collegiate hybrids and classified I am thinking. Political corruption has historically worked thru religious colligates and their institutions for centuries. Go figure Asama Bin Laden was the accused chief terrorist and mastermind of 9-11 then mysteriously disappears while Saddam Hussein winds up having Weapons of Mass Destruction so then we all go on a roundup. We knew all right see US involvement in the Iran-Iraq war and then read about the life of Mohammed Bin Laden and the “Saudi Binladin Group". However, in the real world the UN never finds creditable evidence to support this claim. Has anyone else researched the Ronald Regan administration and the contras? C’mon people follow the money trail here it is truly the pot of gold at the end of every rainbow. There are Seven Sisters to every pot of gold and that pot goes back to 1933 where we mostly find Petrograd’s.


Donald Rumsfeld meeting Saddam on December 19, 1983

Not everyone has been sleeping as I grew up with this stuff…
I have never forgotten The Tower Commission of November 1986.

Egypt historically has been and Arab Republic and political allies with al-Bakr (General Ahmed Hassan al-Bakr) a coup leader and just one of Saddam’s past political buddies.

So why did 9/11 happen after all?
It seems two bin Laden tycoons (Mohammed and Salem) have died
in aircraft accidents outside San Antonio, Texas.

I am thinking of double crossed business deals here...


The Seer

References:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_bin_Laden (Died in 1968)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_bin_Laden (Arbusto Investor)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asama_Bin_Laden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khalid_bin_Mahfouz ($Terrorist Banker$)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Hassan_al-Bakr
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Rahman_Arif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronald_Regan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Tower
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran-Iraq_War#US_involvement_in_the_Iran-Iraq_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_contra#Funding_the_Contras
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARAMCO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Aramco#Associated_companies.2Fsubsidiaries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halliburton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfield#Reagan_Administration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Rumsfield#Ford_Administration
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoover_Institution
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARCO
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbusto_Energy
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/196605/terminal.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein#2003_invasion_of_Iraq
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Survey_Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kay
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Terrorism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Gulf_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_R._Crane
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dresser_Industries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prescott_Bush
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_R._Bath

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averell_Harriman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John_Philby
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan_American_Airlines
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1973_energy_crisis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Petersburg (Petrograd)
http://english.pravda.ru/usa/2001/04/18/3730.html

[Liberal Dose]

27. A certain James Bath was grounded at the same time as the Shrub

Coincidence? I think not. Both in the same unit. Maybe coke pals?

http://users.cis.net/coldfeet/document.htm

#7 is James R. Bath:

[Joacheme Misrahe]

9. I don't see why it matters

This is the same as asking what race they were.

[HeeBGBz]

12. It matters because someone is claiming they were all Syrians

I felt the need to give them a smackdown.

[Joacheme Misrahe]

13. Why claim they were all syrians?

That doesn't make any sense.

[HeeBGBz]

15. Exactly. That is why I asked for the stats

My feeling is its just someone who is listening to some new branch of propaganda staged to promote a hatred of Syria so it will be easier to swallow any future war with that country.

[Chemical Bill]

17. Most had Saudi passports

I've read that some were veterans of the Serbian-Bosnian fighting. Since the passenger lists were never released, and some people named as hijackers are alive to this day, it's hard to say where they were from.

Bill

[Doodlesweaver]

21. that's new

I've never heard some of them were Serbian-Bosnian veterans.