Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Putting some context to the DSM: Cheney's March 2001 Iraq Oil Maps

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:43 AM
Original message
Putting some context to the DSM: Cheney's March 2001 Iraq Oil Maps
I know this is old news to a lot of people, but I wanted to repost it because of the DSM hearings today. On July 17, 2003, Judicial Watch obtained some of Dick Cheney's energy task force documents, which included maps of Iraq's oil fields.

Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, said today that documents turned over by the Commerce Department, under court order as a result of Judicial Watch's Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) lawsuit concerning the activities of the Cheney Energy Task Force, contain a map of Iraqi oilfields, pipelines, refineries and terminals, as well as 2 charts detailing Iraqi oil and gas projects, and "Foreign Suitors for Iraqi Oilfield Contracts." The documents, which are dated March 2001, are available on the Internet at: www.JudicialWatch.org.

The Saudi Arabian and United Arab Emirates (UAE) documents likewise feature a map of each country’s oilfields, pipelines, refineries and tanker terminals. There are supporting charts with details of the major oil and gas development projects in each country that provide information on the projects, costs, capacity, oil company and status or completion date.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/071703.b_pr.shtml


Here's one of the documents:



So in MARCH 2001, six months before September 11, Dick Cheney was hawking maps of Iraq's oil fields as part of an American energy policy. One year later, using the September 11 terrorist attacks as a catalyst, the Bush administration was rushing headlong into an Iraq invasion. But the American people would never accept the idea that Iraq should be invaded so their oil fields could be divided up among energy companies, so therefore "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." And thanks to the numb-nuts media, more than 50% of Bush voters still believe that Saddam Hussein was responsible for the September 11 attacks.

The documents Judicial Watch uncovered from March 2001 give some useful context as to WHY Bush was rushing to war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. And that's why Cheney's fighting to the death not to release more docs
Edited on Thu Jun-16-05 08:47 AM by Stephanie
That's why he is battling all the way to the Supreme Court to keep the documents from his secret energy panel meetings secret. They were divvying up Iraqi oil fields. Months before 9/11. They had a list of "suitors." All they needed was a pretext for war. Such as a New Pearl Harbor.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. One of the very first dots to connect!
There are so many dots that connect all by themselves.
Excellent repost EarlG! Thank you.

:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
3. Yup, carving up Iraq for US oil co's was job #1 for Bushco.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. I would argue massive tax cuts for the most affluent as job # 1 followed
by the carving. Destruction of SS (raiding of the lock box) and Medicare along with all other entitlements and welfare except corporate welfare and welfare for the most affluent would be # 3. With such astounding accomplishments, let's repeal the 22nd Amendment so W can be president for life.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. OK, you win. 8^)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
4. Here's a New Yorker article that didn't get enough attention >
Discussion at this old DU thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1125619

====================================================

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040216fa_fact

CONTRACT SPORT
by JANE MAYER
What did the Vice-President do for Halliburton?
Issue of 2004-02-16 and 23
Posted 2004-02-09

<snip>

For months there has been a debate in Washington about when the Bush Administration decided to go to war against Saddam. In Ron Suskind’s recent book “The Price of Loyalty,” former Treasury Secretary Paul O’Neill charges that Cheney agitated for U.S. intervention well before the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001. Additional evidence that Cheney played an early planning role is contained in a previously undisclosed National Security Council document, dated February 3, 2001. The top-secret document, written by a high-level N.S.C. official, concerned Cheney’s newly formed Energy Task Force. It directed the N.S.C. staff to coöperate fully with the Energy Task Force as it considered the “melding” of two seemingly unrelated areas of policy: “the review of operational policies towards rogue states,” such as Iraq, and “actions regarding the capture of new and existing oil and gas fields.”

A source who worked at the N.S.C. at the time doubted that there were links between Cheney’s Energy Task Force and the overthrow of Saddam. But Mark Medish, who served as senior director for Russian, Ukrainian, and Eurasian affairs at the N.S.C. during the Clinton Administration, told me that he regards the document as potentially “huge.” He said, “People think Cheney’s Energy Task Force has been secretive about domestic issues,” referring to the fact that the Vice-President has been unwilling to reveal information about private task-force meetings that took place in 2001, when information was being gathered to help develop President Bush’s energy policy. “But if this little group was discussing geostrategic plans for oil, it puts the issue of war in the context of the captains of the oil industry sitting down with Cheney and laying grand, global plans.”

<snip>

After months spent trying to obtain more information about the classified Halliburton deals, Representative Waxman’s staff discovered that the original oil-well-fire contract entrusted Halliburton with a full restoration of the Iraqi oil industry. “We thought it was supposed to be a short-term, small contract, but now it turns out Halliburton is restoring the entire oil infrastructure in Iraq,” Waxman said. The Defense Department’s only public acknowledgments of this wide-ranging deal had been two press releases announcing that it had asked Halliburton to prepare to help put out oil-well fires. The most recent budget request provided by the Coalition Provisional Authority in Iraq mentions the building of a new oil refinery and the drilling of new wells. “They said originally they were just going to bring it up to prewar levels. Now they’re getting money to dramatically improve it,” Waxman complained. Who is going to own these upgrades, after the United States government has finished paying Halliburton to build them? “Who knows?” Waxman said. “Nobody is saying.”

<snip>

It is not surprising that Cheney, after five years of running Halliburton, a company that considers war as providing “growth opportunities,” regards winning the peace in Iraq as a challenge for private enterprise as well as for government. Yet it is reasonable to ask if Cheney’s faith in companies like Halliburton contributed to his conviction that the occupation of Iraq would be a tidy, easily managed affair. Now that Cheney’s vision has been shown to be overly optimistic, and Iraqis and American soldiers are still getting killed ten months after Saddam’s overthrow, critics are questioning the propriety of a reconstruction effort that is fuelled by the profit motive. “I’m appalled that the war is being used by people close to the Bush Administration to make money for themselves,” Waxman said. “At a time when we’re asking young men and women to make perhaps the ultimate sacrifice, it’s just unseemly.” Many of those involved, however, see themselves as part of a democratic vanguard. Jack Kemp’s spokesman, P. J. Johnson, told me, “We’re doing good by doing well.” Joe Allbaugh, Bush’s former campaign manager, who has established New Bridge Strategies, a firm aimed specifically at setting up for-profit ventures in Iraq, makes no apologies. “We are proud of the leadership the American private sector is taking in the reconstruction of Iraq,” he said.

<more>
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stephanie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #4
16. It directed the N.S.C. staff to coöperate fully with the Energy Task Force
Edited on Thu Jun-16-05 10:42 AM by Stephanie
quote from above article - sorry ran out of room for quote marks
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Twist_U_Up Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. Great Catch recommended
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
6. "Do not destroy oil wells"
"And all Iraqi military and civilian personnel should listen carefully to this warning: In any conflict, your fate will depend on your actions. Do not destroy oil wells, a source of wealth that belongs to the Iraqi people. Do not obey any command to use weapons of mass destruction against anyone, including the Iraqi people. War crimes will be prosecuted, war criminals will be punished and it will be no defense to say, "I was just following orders." "
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/onpolitics/transcripts/bushtext_031703.html

re-reading the entire speech is... :cry:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dinocrat Donating Member (23 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:59 AM
Response to Original message
9. 9/11 was such a farce...........
It makes connecting these dots much easier. I had my suspicions that BushCo was behind 9/11 as soon as I heard those terrorists were Saudis. This is a great piece of the puzzle, hopefully we can get those energy policy documents released! I wonder if we'll see representatives from India at some these meetings and similar resource maps of Indonesia and Thailand. I've heard that since the "earthquake-caused" tsunami there have been American oil/gas prospectors imbedded with some of the Red Cross personnel. We'll see if history repeats itself.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
10. Good find...will Conyers discuss...
this, it certainly adds to the drive to illegal war.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. I hope so
anyone know if this is part of his press package for today?

On another note - the Downing Street hearings were the opening blather on the news from Imus this morning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
12. Nominated -- and thanks for bringing it back again -- there's so much
it's hard to keep a handle on all the evidence. Hopefully, once there's a real investigation (oh please let there be one) we can all empty out our coffers and backup files to one source. And won't they be overwhelmed by what we know?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CantGetFooledAgain Donating Member (635 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
13. Recommended. To me, THIS is the smoking gun.
The DSM points to the "what" and the "how": Bush and Blair fixed the facts to justify invading Iraq. What's missing from the DSM is the "why": to steal Iraq's oil (among other reasons, but that by itself is enough).

What is needed is solid proof that this was the plan all along. And that proof, I'm convinced, is somehere in the unreleased Cheney energy policy documents. Were any agreements made on how to divvy up the oil under the ground of a sovereign nation? Were any promises made that an invasion would take place? These are high crimes.

And most importantly: how does 9/11 tie into all of this?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
holboz Donating Member (641 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
14. Operation Iraqi Liberation! (OIL)
Edited on Thu Jun-16-05 10:20 AM by holboz
I remember seeing this map last year during a late, late night session in Congress...part of a presentation by some Democratic members. I can't remember if it was in the House or Senate or even who the presnters were. But they called it "Operation Iraqi Liberation" and my jaw dropped, as did my husband's. We both predicted that MSM would not bring this up at all.

On Edit: spelling
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. *blivet 'splains
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kitkat65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Brilliant n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
15. BUT...BUT...BUT...this is OLD NEWS
Corporate media did not cover it then, it's too old to be brought up today. Nothing to see here, move along!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Ausweiss Bitte
lol
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
17. Cheney is a real-life Mr. Burns


Can't wait to see him behind bars!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
radfringe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
18. it's what I've been saying since bush inc. was selected
with Nixon and his plumbers it was FOLLOW THE MONEY

with the bushies it's FOLLOW THE OIL SLICK!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
19. Hot Stuff!
THANKS for posting this.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
21. And remember- Executive Order 13303.
This gave the oil companies imunity. It paved the way for virtually "anything goes", in my limited knowledge of it.

http://www.earthrights.org/news/eo13303.shtml
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Al-CIAda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
22. Yes sir -good post. Rec'd & kick.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Maddy McCall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
23. If you look at the plat above, it's easy to see that the oil fields were..
the main consideration in the entry of US forces. We entered from the south, and secured oil fields along the way. How anyone can say that this war is not about oil is beyond me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joanski0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Well, way back when, I heard Rummy
testify before a Senate Committee that we didn't want anybody's oil and we didn't want anybody's territory. Another crime! Lying to Congress -- again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. We secured every oil field first thing but never did secure nuclear facili
Now there is radiation problems all over Iraq "from plundered radio-active material" they say. And I thought nuclear material was the purpose for the invasion and occupation, silly me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wiggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
26. More early 2001 Iraq oil stuff
Two notes I have from a while ago regarding capturing Iraqi oil:

Paraphrase from New Yorker Magazine: Cheney apparently advocated intervention in Iraq well before 9/11. A recently unearthed memo (from early 2001) reflects direction from Cheney for the National Security Commission to coordinate with his new Energy Task Force (the one that was secret and that he refuses to discuss) in the effort to MELD TWO PREVIOUSLY DIFFERENT POLICY AREAS: 1) DEALING WITH ROGUE STATES AND 2) CAPTURE OF NEW AND EXISTING OIL AND GAS FIELDS.

Price of Loyalty, Suskind (p 96): By early 2000, Rumsfeld already mapped Iraq’s oil fields and developed a list of potentially interested companies and countries in sharing oil production, Iraq planning was underway within a month of election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 12:52 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thank you, Earl
Any plans to invade Iraq prior to September 11 have to be considered nebulous, but just exactly why Mr. Cheney pulled out this map at a meeting of his energy task force, which comprised of energy corporation executives, is an intriguing question.

The neoconservative agenda, which is detailed on the website for the Prohect for the New American Century (PNAC), involves US total dominance in three spheres: economic, military and political. Such a bold agenda presumes that the mission of the military goes somewhere beyond national defense: it must be able to defend American control of economic resources beyond the borders of the United States; keep friendly regimes propped up, even at the expense of the welfare of the people whom the regime governs; and, if necessary, seize resources by force when all else fails.

I, for one, believe Osama bin Laden is responsible for the coordinated attack on two US targets on September 11, 2001; however, I also believe that the neoconservatives would like to send him a dozen roses for the service he inadvertently provided them. A PNAC document stated that it would take a "catastrophic and cataclysmic event--like a new Pearl Harbor" (in this PDF document at page 63) to galvanize Americans into retooling the military according to their vision. No one can dispute that the September 11 attack was that event.

On the other hand, the goals put forth in the PNAC document to which I linked don't present any good solutions to the problem of preventing a repeat of the kind of catastrophic and cataclysmic event that took place three and a half years ago. A spiffy new missile defense system isn't going to stop a small band of fanatics armed with box cutters from hijacking a passenger jet and plunging it into an office building. It may, however, be useful to threaten a potential economic or military rival into submission.

Consequently, it was necessary to morph Osama into something else. He had to become Saddam, a brutal dictator sitting on the world's third largest reserve of oil. Saddam may not have had a hand in the September 11 attack, but he was a villain out of central casting.

There is ample evidence to show that the Bush regime never really wanted to go after Osama, but respond to the attacks of September 11 by going directly after Saddam. Prime Minister Blair may have performed one good service to the world in his otherwise unfortunate alliance with the tyrant Bush by persuading Bush to attack Afghanistan before Iraq. Why on earth did Bush need persuaded? Osama, the criminal we needed to bring to justice, was in Afghanistan.

The terrorist attack of September 11 was a flimsy excuse for invading Iraq. Ousting Saddam from power was a goal not even remotely related to the war on terror. It was also a betrayal of the American people and of US national security; we are still at risk from Osama, but were never at risk from Saddam.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. Kick
:bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
29. And they refused to read the HartRudman Report on Global Terror handed to
them on Jan 30, 2001.

They ALLOWED the murder of 3000 American cirizens so they could have the excuse to invade Iraq and take its oil for their robber baron oil cronies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
31. looking at this listening to the witnesses at the DSM hearing
I need to have a primal scream or something .
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
32. Cheney was MORE Interested in the OIL then WMD! They're ya go.
What more do people need. This backs-up the "DSM" documents. No wonder they "fixed around the policy..."

How much more of our troops deaths do we allow to get the MSN to get this stuff on the air!?! Because what you state is absolutely correct: Our numb-nut media stations "know" more then 50% watch Faux/MSNBC/ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN and believe still Saddam is connected to 9/11.

Note: C-SPAN 2 will re-air the radio conference from today's "DSM" meeting Friday night, 8:00 pm EST.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1554832
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AuntiBush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
33. That Explains This Today: House Might Take Away Whistleblower Protection
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
34. Thank you for promoting this link
I've been saying all along that Cheney and Bush decided to invade Iraq illegally before they were even sworn into office. The Iraq division maps and now the DSM memos prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
realFedUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
35. Maybe we need a new forum
that connects all the dots on the pre-planning
of the invasion...timeline etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
37. Evening bump
:bounce:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Blue_Roses Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
38. kick
:kick:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Scout1071 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
39. March 2001? I've had enough. IMPEACH NOW.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-16-05 11:37 PM
Response to Original message
40. I think Palast connected the dots
Edited on Thu Jun-16-05 11:47 PM by Synnical
Edit for detail

February 2001 - Only one month after the first Bush-Cheney inauguration, the State Department's Pam Quanrud organizes a secret confab in California to make plans for the invasion of Iraq and removal of Saddam. US oil industry advisor Falah Aljibury and others are asked to interview would-be replacements for a new US-installed dictator.

On BBC Television's Newsnight, Aljibury himself explained,

"It is an invasion, but it will act like a coup. The original plan was to liberate Iraq from the Saddamists and from the regime."

March 2001 - Vice-President Dick Cheney meets with oil company executives and reviews oil field maps of Iraq. Cheney refuses to release the names of those attending or their purpose. Harper's has since learned their plan and purpose -- see below.

http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=437&row=0
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EarlG ADMIN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. Yup - I saw that
It's what prompted me to go dig up the documents again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Nothing Without Hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-17-05 01:43 AM
Response to Original message
41. thank you. Bookmarking. Will recommend if still time. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC