A non-DSM-related "high crime or misdemeanor"? See this NYT article:

[Nothing Without Hope]

There has been so much DSM/Conyers hearing attention today that this development has been almost completely overlooked. It needs to be added to the list of Bush administration crimes crying for investigation. And as an encouraging sign, the NY Times article does point a finger at Bush himself. I don't think they would have done that 6 months ago.

Please come look at this - I believe it's important but so far it has been ignored. It's been in the news for a while, but the new thing is that there is now an exposed internal memo that shows that the Bushies have been lying about it not being politically motivated. And there have been ties to Big Tobacco going 'way back. Please come and join the discussion, then spread the word. And add it to the list of crimes crying for investigation and exposure:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3871928
Thread title: NYT: Bush pal overrode Justice Dept lawyers in huge tobacco industry break

[Nothing Without Hope]

1. kick n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

2. kick- this needs attention, not to be swept under a rug and forgotten. n/t

[cally]

3. I think this will resonate more with the middle than

lying to go to war. Handing money to big business and donors pisses off almost everyone. This story needs to get out. It's inexcusable.

[Nothing Without Hope]

4. I agree. This is massive corruption, pure and simple. And look at the

first reply to the main thread. The poster quickly outlines a past history in which the Bush crime family and Cheney have been in the pockets of Big Tobacco for a long time. This was just one $120 billion payoff, you know there have been other tit-for-tats over the years. The released documents make it clear that the administration is LYING about it not being politically motivated, and the lead crook is a personal friend and political appointee of George W. Bush.

I wish more people would look at this. It's an important part of the story showing the total corruption of these people and their being bought by corporations, even if it is to the detriment of citizens. This needs to be publicized BIG TIME.

[AirAmFan]

5. 'Bribery' IS specifically mentioned in Article II, Section 4

From http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/18.html :

"U.S. Constitution : Article II Section 4. Impeachment

The President, Vice President and all Civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors."

[Nothing Without Hope]

6. Excellent point. Would you please repost it in the main thread on this?

I'm trying to gather important info on this there:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3871928

[AirAmFan]

8. Done, but my kick won't save that thread

I'd suggest reposting here in GP (definitely not the fast moving "General" or LBN) with a much more indicative title. The title is the only thing more than a handful of DUers will see, and it should indicate vividly exactly what's inside the thread. I'd suggest something like,

'$120B worth of Big Tobacco bribes: Grounds for IMPEACHMENT?

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. oooh - I like that. When I repost, I'll PM you with a headsup if I may.

This topic has not been getting the attention it needs. I do believe your title would bring more attention - thank you for that.

[AirAmFan]

10. Explicit comparison of the tobacco payoff with the Watergate breakin

in Nixon's impeachment also would be useful.

Your "non-DSM" characterization of this tobacco bribery scandal is important. One of the points I made in an archived thread at http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=1820923 is that Congress VOTED DOWN the foreign policy impeachment article against Nixon.

Any President probably has enough dominance over foreign policy to avoid successful impeachment when the only charge iinvolves warmongering.

IMHO, only the criminal court discovery process has any real prospect of allowing enough investigation to be able to ask the key question: "What did the President know, and when did he know it?"

The Plame outing might allow criminal prosecution to get started with WH staff for the criminal offense of Treason, and this new scandal might allow criminal prosecution to start with WH political appointees at Justice.

[Nothing Without Hope]

11. Makes sense to me. Let's use the reposted thread to collect more

information on the Bush/Cheney cartel and their past history with Big Tobacco. Plus, one of the people at the main thread have said that R J Reynolds was money-laundering in Iraq. Have you heard about that? It's supposed to be part of the Oil-for-Food scandal. Might there be another Bush dot-to-dot there? I know nothing about it.

I agree with you - it's going to be hard to rely entirely on DSM-related matters to impeach this crowd. Although I have to mention here that one piece of the DSM that has NOT gotten enough attention and has some possibilities is this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3847225
Thread title; This May 1 EXPOSÉ ABOUT THE U.K. ATT'Y GENERAL complements the DSM:
I really don't think this has gotten the attention it deserves. Five top Bush admin lawyers - inlcuding Gonzales and Ashcroft and representatives from other Depts - bullied Lord Goldsmith into changing his stance on the legality of the Iraq invasion. These "gruelling" meetings took place in Feb 2003, the same month as Colin Powell's fraudulent UN speech.

I think we need all the articles of iimpeachment we can get, as tightly documented as they can be.

[ClassWarrior]

7. kick

:hi: Hope...

NGU.

[Nothing Without Hope]

12. Hi CW! Good to see you!

:hi:

And you're right - NGU! :patriot:

[Nothing Without Hope]

13. I WILL REPOST THE MAIN TREAD IN GD-P TOMORROW AFTERNOON

Let's use that thread to collect links and info on possible NON-DSM grounds for impeachment and also more info on the past and present duet of the Bush/Cheney crime family and Big Tobacco.

We need to weave this together. The DSMs alone will not be enough - but bribery and corruption could be. At worst they would be excellent material to disabuse the US public of their already eroding trust in the goodness and patriotism of the Bush cartel.

When I repost, I will give a link to the new thread here. I hope you will come and add to the discussion. We need documentation to bring these monsters down.

[wiggs]

14. Lying to Congress regarding Medicare is impeachable. nt

[Karenina]

15. Kick!

:kick:

[Nothing Without Hope]

17. Let's collect these potential impeachable non-DSM issues in the new

thread when I post it later today (Friday).

With all the emphasis on the DSMs, I fear that other potentially more easily provable and easily understood (by average Americans) crimes are not getting the attention they need. If we pin everything on the DSMs, I'm afraid the impeachment won't happen, or if it does, not all the criminals will be removed from the administration.

We need a fully documented list of crimes.

[wiggs]

19. Good point and agree. A few starting points

Using 700 million for purposes other than what concress authorized (Afganistan) is unconstitutional.

I'd also pick someone from the administration and pin Plame on them. Outing a CIA agent is a criminal offense.

Harken insider trading by Bush has always been there, waiting for an investigation.

Showing the Iraq war plan to Bandar Bush is wrong. That information was marked as no foreign eyes

Skewing science and cherry picking research in order to give polluting corporations a break at the expense of public health MUST be investigated and pursued. This is the same type of lying that DSM is talking about, only the lying in this case results not in invasion of another country, but our own....by profiteering, amoral corporations. The list of environmental piracy is long and obscene. Lots of grist for the mill there.

I'd like to know who authorized Saudis leaving the country 3 days after 9/11.

As I remember, John Dean's book lists several issues that could result in administration downfall....gave book away so I can't check it out. Also, DSM is well supported by lots and lots of other sources...DSM doesn't need to stand alone as the sole document pointing to misdeeds on WMD and intelligence. The issue is not DSM, it is the whole picture based on hundreds of pieces of evidence and, actually, the picture is quite clear.

[woodsprite]

24. After all, wasn't it tax evasion that brought down Al Capone. n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. That's right - it's what's PROVABLE that counts. And in the current

era of suppressed Poodle Press, it's also what can be explained easily to the public. Corruption, especially on this scale, will convince many that don't understand or believe in the importance of the DSMs. We need ALL the lines of evidence against the criminals.

[Coexist]

16. kick

[Nothing Without Hope]

18. kick n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

20. I WILL REPOST ON THIS AND RELATED TOPICS TOMORROW (Sat)

I planned to do it today, but I am ill and am forced to pay attention to something other than my computer tonight.

I'll post here again with a link to the new thread. I hope you will come participate. These non-DSM Bush administration scandals need more attention than they're getting - we need the strongest impeachment case we can get and the DSMs may well not be enough.

[AirAmFan]

21. My advice: Keep your lead post short and simple, sticking to the tobacco

bribery as grounds for impeachment, or this could get very confusing. If you want, you can add replies later to bring up other issues.

[Nothing Without Hope]

23. Yes, you're right. Important but not closely related points brought up

in replies can be subjects of other threads if they seem needed.

[Just Me]

22. Yup. They violate the rule of law to profit their fellow corporacrats.

They do not not NOT "serve" our people,...they serve profiteering corporacrats. They do not not NOT operate within the realm of our constitution, the balance of power, the best interests of the people or democracy.

THEY ARE CORPORACRATIC TYRANTS.

They exploit others on behalf of themselves.

[Nothing Without Hope]

26. kick n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

27. kick - still planning to repost n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

28. Will try to repost tomorrow including new findings

still ill but feeling better - think I can do it

[Nothing Without Hope]

29. Will try to repost Tuesday including new findings n/t

[Nothing Without Hope]

30. kick n/t