Clark at Fox news is an analogy of my life.

[yebrent]

IMO, all this arguing about Clark w/ Fox News comes down to two different views on how we can create positive change in this world.

1. Some believe that participating in or working for any institution that you do not agree with is a betrayal. Attacking a damaging institution from the outside is the only way to effectively cause positive change in the institution.

2. Others believe that to change certain institutions, you need to have positive voices working on the inside for change. That from the inside, you can have a more positive effect on the direction of the institution.

I understand this dichotomy more than most. I am a progressive bay area, Californian who works for a large bank. I am sometimes dismissed by supposedly open minded progressives after they learn that I help approve multi million dollar lines of credit for large corporations. They expect that I must be unhappy in my job and wonder why I haven't quit for some more honorable profession. Even after I explain it to them they usually still are not convinced.

What I tell them is this:

I have been with this bank for 6 years and over that time, I have seen the effect I have had on my coworkers. I can tell that my priority of strong ethics has rubbed off on them. I can tell that my concerns about certain companies environmental practices has impacted how my bank does business with them. I can tell that I am making more of a difference fighting in the belly of the beast than I would be from the outside. I tell them that the longer I am with the bank, the more power I will have to make positive change in the institution.

Also, I explain that how you make your money is only one half of the equation. How you spend your money is as equally important. I buy organic, use public transportation as much as possible, eat at independent restaurants, visit independent theaters, and shop as blue as I can. I attend a lot of concerts often giving tickets to friends, which supports a vibrant musical scene here in the Bay Area. I give away more to charity and politics than I can afford.

This often isn't enough. I shrug my shoulders and write this off as the close minded progressives thinking they have all the answers and know best what all of us should be doing to save our country and the world.

Sometimes it is sad, but over time I have found like minded people who do understand that effective change happens from BOTH pressure from the outside and people fighting for change from the inside.

[Rowdyboy]

1. Well reasoned and beautifully stated.....

Thank you for an excellent piece

[NMDemDist2]

2. excellent post, thanks for your experiences and view "from the inside"

kicked and nominated :applause:

[Jacobin]

3. I just am having trouble, notwithstanding your excellent post,

understanding how anyone thinks that they can have any impact at all on Faux News.

The reports are legion of talking heads who strayed from the company line being warned once and then fired.

If that's what Clark does, that's fine. The problem is he's going to have to hedge what he says sooooo far toward the extreme RW line, it has the probability of turning him into another mediawhore.

[yebrent]

9. Why would Clark have to hedge what he says?

IMO, this is more of a sign that Fox is changing due to their decreasing ratings, not a sign of Clark changing. His ratings are not decreasing. But I really don't want to get into this, as it has been hashed and rehashed in numerous other threads.

My post was more about how there are progressives who take a different approach in creating positive change, by fighting from the inside the flawed system. This exactly Clark's MO. When the military leaders let him and his friends down in the Vietnam war, he didn't quit the damaging institution. He stuck around and helped change the army into something he could be proud of (until recently.) It was important that there were people on the outside criticizing the army, but it was also important that people like Clark stuck around and created reform from the inside.

[Jacobin]

11. I hope you are right

Dean was my candidate back in the primaries, but I would have been happy to see Clark get the nomination.....I would have much preferred Clark over Kerry.

[Cha]

4. Brilliant insight!

Thanks..I think it will be interesting to see how Clark does on faux.

[wyldwolf]

5. I've never been about withholding my business from companies...

..whose politics I disagree with until recently. If I searched hard enough, I could fine something offensive to someone with any corporation.

I do draw the line with Wal Mart.

I once worked for a company as a web designer where I had to help build libertarian sites and other rightwing sites. I felt icky and hid easter eggs in a lot of them. Fortunately, the contract expired.

I did tell a new Sub Sandwich place in town who invited me to dine in their restaurant instead of taking it to go that I would never eat in their dining room with FOX News on the TV. They immediately switched it.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. I admire your integrity.

What's an "easter egg" in this context?

[wyldwolf]

7. "easter eggs" are hidden messages, image map pop-up windows, etc.

on websites.

CDs have hidden songs.
DVDs have hidden menus and features.

http://www.eeggs.com/

[newswolf56]

8. Fine post and interesting thread. I too have often been...

...denounced by self-righteous "progressives" for my work within the establishment, this with establishment media (never mind the fact I've endured years of dreadful poverty writing for alternative media too). My justification for working inside the establishment is simple: the sometimes-breathtaking ripple effect of a single impertinent question asked by one bold reporter. Indeed I have sometimes been that reporter myself -- and my career has suffered accordingly. But I do not regret anything I have done professionally. And the opportunity for asking such pointed questions is among the greatest of the many intangible rewards that have kept me at this sorely underpaid work for more than 40 years.

(Except on the major magazines and the very few remaining Guild newspapers, print reporters are among the most chronically under-compensated workers in the United States. As to the Alternative Press of the 1970s, I speak from sad experience when I say that economic reality eventually made it the domain of trust-fund "radicals" only: no one else could afford to live indefinitely on its sub-starvation wages. Hence the anti-working-class bias that so often envenomed its pages.)

[KittyWampus]

10. Well, We Can't Exterminate The Right Leaning Americans & Those Stupified

by the media, so we'd better start trying to reach those who will listen.

[ClarkUSA]

12. Why can't more DU threads be like this one? Thanks OP and everyone.

:headbang:

[Stan Davis]

13. I don't have any qualms...

...about taking money from an organization whose politics I don't like, 'caue then I can use some of their own money to combat their agenda.

Stan Davis
Lakewood, CO

[yebrent]

14. modern day Robin-hoods.

Make money off the rich and spend it in ways that help the less advantaged.

[BlueStateGirl]

17. Welcome to DU, Stan.

[Massacure]

15. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer.

Strike only when it serves you best. When you do, strike first, strike fast, strike fatally.

That's my philosophy anyways.

[yebrent]

16. Is that your quote?

Or did someone say that before you? Just curious, because I think it is great.

[Massacure]

18. The first part is King Louis the something or other from France.

The second part I don't remember where when or why it came into my head.

[Dora]

19. You can't fight the current

without getting in the water.

:toast:

[ClarkUSA]

21. Excellent.

Can I quote you? :)

[roguevalley]

20. LBJ: Its better to be inside the tent piss out than outside the tent

pissing in.

[Politicub]

22. Wonderful post

I have a job that would probably offend many here. But I can see the positive impact I've had on my coworkers as well.

At least I am able to interject another POV than the dominant conservative one. Each and every one of us can make a difference in our own way.

[snowbear]

23. Sounds like Mr. Insanity hates the General already, huh?

(Newshound -> they watch that crap, so you don't HAVE to! ;) )

http://www.newshounds.us/2005/06/17/wesley_clark_surprises_hannity.php

Awwww.. poor norml.. :cry:

:rofl: Rock on General Clark! :headbang:

[AX10]

24. Well reasoned. Though what will change Fox is ratings.

That's all.

Though, it is good that Clark's voice will be heard on Fox.

[Just Me]

25. Thank you. All of us live IN such dichotomies at some time or other.

It's truly a tragedy when we refuse to acknowledge our capacity to not only adapt to conflicting situations but also our ability contribute to human interests as we cope with such conflicting conditions.

I don't know. Maybe I am weird but I NEVER treat others like they are my enemy based upon some conjured up difference of the day whether it be nationality or color or religion or political orientation or whatever. Only those who appear to be emotionally manipulative or TREAT ME LIKE AN ENEMY receive my retaliation and recalcitrant opposition.

In my experience, only the extreme egos ever compel my wrath,...and they are few. Unfortunately, those few extremists are compelling my wrath a LOT, lately, because they have climbed the backs of humanity and are wreaking havoc. I loathe them with every ounce of my being.