children raped at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has videos

[donsu]

http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh_children_raped.html

Hersh: children raped at Abu Ghraib, Pentagon has videos
From Daily Kos' partial transcript of a video (link to REAL stream) of Seymour Hersh speaking at an ACLU event. He says the US government has videotapes of children being raped at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq.
" Some of the worst things that happened you don't know about, okay? Videos, um, there are women there. Some of you may have read that they were passing letters out, communications out to their men. This is at Abu Ghraib ... The women were passing messages out saying 'Please come and kill me, because of what's happened' and basically what happened is that those women who were arrested with young boys, children in cases that have been recorded. The boys were sodomized with the cameras rolling. And the worst above all of that is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking that your government has. They are in total terror. It's going to come out." Link (via Warren). There's also a piece worth reading in this week's Newsweek about new allegations of rape and sexual torture at Abu Ghraib. Feature includes details on the identities of the Iraqi prisoners shown in those widely-circulated photographs -- including Satar Jabar (charged with carjacking, not terrorism), whose iconic hooded figure with wires attached is derisively described by many Iraqis as the "Statue of Liberty." Link
-snip-
------------------------------


america, the country that tortures

[Pacifist Patriot]

1. I wonder if Durbin has seen this.

Makes Gitmo seem like Club Med, doesn't it?

[katinmn]

54. I just wrote him and Sen. Dayton. I hope we all do outreach on this!

Dear Sen. Durbin,

Thank you for taking the lead on exposing prisoner abuse. Today I became aware of some very disturbing reports regarding Abu Ghriab. It has to do with the photo and video evidence that has been ordered released. Here is the information from a Democratic discussion board. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1862749#1862760

Americans cannot stand by and allow these atrocities to happen in our name. I don't care if it is in the recent past or as the Bush clan says "It's old news." Those responsible MUST be held accountable. Rumsfeld should be fired immediately and this should be added to the list of Bush's transgressions against Iraqi and American citizens.

I take this very seriously.

Thanks for all you do.

xxxxxx

[katinmn]

59. Sent a revised letter to Coleman

and I'm writing my rep now, too.

[kitkat65]

72. But are the one doing these things our soldiers or the private security

contractors that have been sent over there that our tax dollars are paying for?

There was a question raised at the DSM hearing that alluded to these contractors and the fact that we don't know who they are, how many there are or what their function is.

The soldiers charged for the Abu Ghraib also alluded to private contract security people telling them how to do things.

I want to know who the fuck these contractors are.

[Pacifist Patriot]

79. Either way it warrants an investigation.

A complete and thorough investigation. Yes, i would like to know who the contractors are too. This whole situation is like a fucking Ludlum novel short a Jason Bourne.

[Beam Me Up]

115. Many if not most of these "private contractors" ARE *TERRORISTS*

They TERRORIZE people. That's what they get PAID to do. Apparently they ENJOY it. Many of them are private "security" firms doing business with the Feds through contractors such as Carlyle. This should absolutely be illegal. These private "security" forces are actually becoming ARMED MERCENARIES IN THE EMPLOY OF CORPORATIONS.

[Cronus Protagonist]

108. or this?

http://bushspeaks.com/home.asp?did=167


http://brainbuttons.com/home.asp?stashid=13
Buttons for brainy people - educate your local freepers today!

[Ravenseye]

2. If you had asked me before the war what I thought the worst....

...thing that our troops would do to the iraqi's during the occupation....I never would have imagined any of this.

Not the torture, the pictures, the sodomizing of children...If those pictures hadn't come out I don't know if I would have REALLY believed that it had happened at all.

Now...I just shake my head in disgust. I blame Bush, as he's the one responsible for the whole mess.

[DearAbby]

7. Oh God...

:::sobbing and ashamed:::

And Durbin gets bombarded because he used the term Nazi to describe this?

[glitch]

70. That's what nazis do. Commit atrocities and then shout down (or worse)

anyone who objects, or even notices.

Doesn't this explain why DC is all "I know nothing" and very few back up the brave who do speak up?

They all know who, or what, they are dealing with. Unfortunately so many of them choose collaboration to deal with the threat.
:puke:

[katinmn]

3. NOOOO!!

I can't take anymore of this.

Put Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice -- the whole lot of them -- in chains.

Please, please, please let the media do their jobs and get hold of these videos. Let Americans know that our country is being led by vile animals. :cry:

[Jacobin]

4. Guess we need to get a Support the Storm Troopers ribbon

[lala_rawraw]

5. MOTHER FUCKING BASTARDS... DOBSON VISITING????

WHO IS RAPING THESE CHILDREN? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[noonwitch]

61. Is it our soldiers raping them, or other inmates?

Not that that matters in a liability sense, but it does make it worse if it is our soldiers doing it.

[in_cog_ni_to]

64. The soldiers were raping the babies in front of their parent...

to torture them. Make them sing. They raped the wives of the prisoners too. :cry:

BASTARDS! :grr::nuke:

[truebrit71]

78. Isn't that behaviour EXACTLY what LT Awol used to enrage the 'Muurican

..population...

Didn't that lying motherfucker also say that the rape rooms have been shut down...

Apparently not...

The sign on the front door of Abu Ghraib should read "Under New Management"....

MOTHERFUCKING BASTARDS!!!! :grr:

[Desertrose]

6. It breaks my heart to know how low we have sunk....

and it sickens me to know how much cruelty is everywhere in this world...and how much the USA has added to it, meanwhile all the holier than thou right wing fundies keep trying to delude themeselves and everyone else that whatever has been done is justified by some strange concept of their so called "christian" god.

The world is out of control completely nuts.

"KOYAANISQATSI"
Hopi for Life out of Balance

[burythehatchet]

46. koyaaaaaaaaanisqatsiiiiiiii (in deep voice)

love that film

[Desertrose]

67. Awesome film...isn't it?

Need to watch it again...wonder if it'll ever come out on DVD?

ON EDIT: It's on video!! but sounds like the formatting isn't too great. I still have the VHS copy.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000068OCS/102-3063017-7948104?v=glance#product-details

[kitkat65]

71. OT - sorry

But I got to see Phillip Glass perform this with his orchestra live while the film played. Absolutely amazing. I get goosebumps thinking about it.

But what overwhelmed me was all the footage of the abandoned buildings coming down and knowing that every single person in that theatre was thinking about the twin towers.

[burythehatchet]

73. WOW - what was the venue?

sounds amazing.

[kitkat65]

77. The Palace Theatre in Columbus, Ohio of all places

The film was projected from a booth constructed in the middle of the theater made, I assume, just for this performance. At first, I was kind of irritated by the projector noise, but then it somehow seemed to be very appropriate for reasons that I can't adequately explain. Like, technology and our dependence on it and how it seems to tear us away from nature yet still bring us things of beauty. Something like that....

[Desertrose]

95. that sounds like quite an experience....

to hear the live score while the movie was playing.....

Was this recently? Its great to know the movie is still having an impact...of course once you see it you won't really ever forget it.

[IChing]

8. Norwegian Papers reported this allegation last summer

But of course we had other issues for this nation to distract itself

[Stand and Fight]

9. Good God...

Our country is in the hands of beasts. Demons.

[lala_rawraw]

10. Send to every Christian wing nut and every Senate/House member...

They are supporting the rape of women and children.

[katinmn]

33. Yes, let's see how they spin it and justify the rape of children

sick MFers!

[The_Casual_Observer]

11. Some cracker senator claimed that everybody in "Cell Block A"

was a terrorist. You just knew he was full of shit, but as usual what the hell could you do about it.

[iamjoy]

12. I'll Believe It When I See Edited Clips/Pictures

the children part, I mean.

The raping of women is a tragic (but sadly, not uncommon) circumstance of war. We also know that in domestic prisons, women are often raped by COs (and in some states that isn't even a crime). We know that men in prison sometimes rape fellow inmates.

We know there were other abuses in our prisons, but everything pales in comparison to this latest allegation. To believe that we have a significant number of deranged pedophiles in our military...

[smoogatz]

23. See my post below.

Hersh claims that Iraqi guards raped these kids while American troops stood by--and videotaped the whole thing. He's been saying exactly the same thing for over a year. His sources are senior defense department officials who've been talking to him for years. This is the real deal. The United States of America operated "rape rooms" in Iraq. Way to win the hearts and minds, guys.

[Kraklen]

26. You've seen pictures of U.S. troops raping men...

of U.S. troops attaching electrodes to mens genitals, of U.S. troops using attack dogs to kill human beings, and then pose with the corpse for pictures.

It's no stretch of the imagination to believe they'd be equally capable of raping children.

This is personal bias, you think there's no way U.S. troops would rape children because they're from the same country that you are.

[iamjoy]

97. Yes, To An Extent, It Is Bias

I mean, I haven't seen the pictures of U.S. troops raping. I know there were supposedly pics of soldiers raping women, but those turned out to be fake.

The pictures from Abu Ghraib of the elctrodes, using dogs, etc were all horrible enough, but raping children is so far beyond the pale

Yes, I know that is what I believe because that is what I want to believe. But also, I can't see any reason for it. Why would the Pentagon have such videos? If such events occurred and were recorded, woudln't the Pentagon destroy all evidence of such heinous crimes? Or quietly prosecute the perpetrators?

[opusprime]

13. "And we know that Saddam had Rape Rooms..."

Wont be long and we will have killed more Iraqi's in three years, than Saddam killed in 30.

Feeling proud?

[DemoTex]

14. What about the additional photos the courts ordered released?

That was several weeks ago. Where are they? WTF?

[cyberpj]

32. Here is some release info from the ACLU site.

Federal Court Orders Government to Turn Over Videos and Photos Showing Detainee Abuse
June 2, 2005
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: [e-mail]

NEW YORK -- A federal judge has ordered the Defense Department to turn over dozens of photographs and four movies depicting detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq as part of an ongoing lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union.

(snip)

The court order filed late yesterday requires the government by June 30 to reprocess and redact 144 detainee abuse photographs provided by Sergeant Joseph Darby to the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command. The order also requires the government to provide the court with an estimate of the length of time it will take to reprocess and redact four movies included as part of the Darby collection by June 10. The decision comes after the court privately viewed eight of the images from the Darby collection to determine whether the photographs should be released under the FOIA. The ACLU expects redacted versions of the photographs to be released within the next six weeks.

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18393&c=206

[katinmn]

35. Thank God for the ACLU.

Now it's up to the rest of us to make the media report it and to make other Americans look in the mirror and see what we have become.

[cyberpj]

37. I know. I've started donating a little each month this year. nt.

[CWebster]

36. the argument the military used in the initial investigation was

release of the evidence would further inflame the "insurgency" and endanger the troops.

They played the "support the troops" card.

[cyberpj]

38. According to ACLU site info, they also used Geneva Convention card!

"It is indeed ironic that the government invoked the Geneva Conventions as a basis for withholding these photographs," said Amrit Singh, a staff attorney at the ACLU. "Had the government genuinely adhered to its obligations under these Conventions, it could have prevented the widespread abuse of detainees held in its custody in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantánamo Bay."

[bobbieinok]

101. 'redacted'?????? means 'cleaned up so US looks good'???????

[Demrock6]

15. How do we know if this is for real?

I dont want to belive this crap.

[smoogatz]

17. Sy Hersh is never wrong.

Look at his track record. His sources are impeccable--they're senior people in the Defense and State departments who've been talking to Hersh for twenty or thirty years. It's for real.

[progressoid]

30. That his track record is impeccable is what worries me

I would love for Hersh to be wrong on this but chances are he's not.

Sad.

[smoogatz]

41. American troops have raped women and (doubtless) boys in every war

they've fought. Soldiers are soldiers, no matter where they're from. Rape was endemic in Germany after the Nazis fell; Korea and Vietnam both had to deal with thousands of mixed-race "orphans" after those wars ended. I think the myth that any war can be fought honorably is incredibly destructive. Americans in particular seem determined to romanticize soldiers and war--very convenient for our Fearless Leaders.

[Kraklen]

43. If U.S. troops can throw babies in ditches and shoot them...

I don't see why raping children is a stretch of the imagination.

[CWebster]

47. Meanwhile...support the troops.

Nice ruse.

People like to tell themselves it is just a couple of bad apples while they wave that flag of god and country, when the very nature of war is always barbarism. It is essential to indoctrinate the illusion of heroism otherwise there would be no willing participants.

[Hapameli]

53. The same ones who "Support The Troops" now will spit on & blame them later

All they care about is winning. When they figure out that there's no way to win, they'll just blame the troops and call them druggies, hippies, etc.

[smoogatz]

57. I do think the great majority do their best in a terrible situation

I think also that those who commit atrocities ought to answer for their crimes. But the ultimate responsibility clearly lies, in this case, within the power structure. Who trained these people? Who was responsible for supervising them? And who were those supervisors accountable to? I think much of what happened at Abu Ghraib started at the policy level--and that places the ultimate responsibility squarely at Rumsfeld's door. He truly is a war criminal. The fact that he's not sitting in a prison cell is a gross insult, in my view, to both the American and the Iraqi people.

[XemaSab]

66. You sound a lot like

Chris Hedges

"war is a force that gives us meaning."

[Zhade]

76. Amazing book.

NT!

[Roland99]

62. Read this...a review of a speech Hersh gave back in March.

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/03/04/an-audience-with-seymour-hersh/

[earth mom]

84. I didn't want to believe it either, but when I saw it was from Sy Hersh...

I felt sick to my stomach.
There's no way I can watch whatever's on that tape. :cry:

[wtmusic]

22. We don't...yet

beyond the fact that Sy Hersch has been around for a long, long time and is widely respected for his professionalism.

Not the type to shoot his mouth off irresponsibly.

[smoogatz]

16. Hersh has been talking about these videos since he first broke the story

last year. Apparently American troops stand by (and shoot videotape) while Iraqi guards rape women and children. Hey--God told Our Fearless Leader to bring freedom and democracy to the poor, oppressed peoples of the middle east. It's hard work, watching children getting raped.

I wonder if the rape videos will be included in the materials the ACLU's going after in their FOIA case against the government. It's all supposed to be released pretty soon, if I remember right.

[Inland]

18. But the Nazis were much worse. And the raped boys were fed fruit.

And what about 9/11, what about them?

Oh, an earthquake! Was Jacko hurt?

[wtmusic]

24. Afterwards, they got honey-glazed chicken, ferchrissakes

:grr:

[lumpy]

19. Impeachment

of the Bush administration might rectify the inhumane agressive hitlerian image of the US that this administration has presented to the world. Somehow as American citizens we have to show the world that we will not tolerate this sort of barbaric action by the corrupt leaders of this country.

[Oversea Visitor]

114. Still WAITING

:hide:

[wiggs]

20. Sidebar thoughts

1) When this is all done, we will owe the Iraqis the mother of all apologies

2) Discussions this week: raping of children, napalm used in Iraq, administration lied his way into invading a country illegally. Beautiful.

3) These images and videos have not just surfaced...they've been around a while. The pentagon has seen them. The administration has seen them, and many from congress previewed them, as I remember, several months ago. WHY IN GODS NAME DID our leaders allow the Abu Ghraib issue to go dormant? Why have dems and pugs alike stifled their outrage since then? We haven't heard anything from them, have we? Why did they allow the administration to get all huffy about Amnesty International's description of Iraqi prisons being bad places?

4) I don't like being the world's bad guys. I had trips in the planning stages to Italy and Bali this upcoming year...glad I didn't decide on those. Who knows really how angry the world is going to be later this summer. I've heard people from other countries say that they don't like American policy but they love Americans. How long can this go on as long as the public allows these monsters to stay in office?

5) This administration cannot fix the damage by itself. A changing of administrations now would, I think, go a long way in telling the world that they didn't represent us.

Pitchforks and torches.

[wtmusic]

25. Far beyond apologies

Reparations. Reparations that our grandchildren will be paying for.

[wtmusic]

74. kick nt

[cyberpj]

40. The photos w/be out soon, videos to follow...

Federal Court Orders Government to Turn Over Videos and Photos Showing Detainee Abuse

June 2, 2005
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: [e-mail]

NEW YORK -- A federal judge has ordered the Defense Department to turn over dozens of photographs and four movies depicting detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq as part of an ongoing lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union.
(snip)

The court order filed late yesterday requires the government by June 30 to reprocess and redact 144 detainee abuse photographs provided by Sergeant Joseph Darby to the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command. The order also requires the government to provide the court with an estimate of the length of time it will take to reprocess and redact four movies included as part of the Darby collection by June 10. The decision comes after the court privately viewed eight of the images from the Darby collection to determine whether the photographs should be released under the FOIA. The ACLU expects redacted versions of the photographs to be released within the next six weeks.

http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18393&c=206

[malmapus]

45. I seriously don't know if we, as a country, could ever atone for this

WTF have the NEO-CONS and Bush** turned us into. I only see things like this getting worse since the Army has lowered its fucking recruiting standards to almost the bottom of the barrel.

[CWebster]

21. Think about this

members of congress were privy to a catalogue of photos that were so condemning and so repelling that they thought it better to shield the public eyes from viewing.

That would be like hiding the concentration camps.
The only outrage I heard expressed concerning this disgraceful testimonial was from Senator Boxer. And still Kerry blew his horn about military strength and Clinton gave her thumbs up to the invasion. Have they no shame?

[donkeyotay]

58. National security

So much of what has happened to us has happened because national security has justified secrecy.

I think it's turned out that our real security depends upon a whole lot more transparency. Secrecy always breeds corruption. The policy of terrorism justifying torture, among other things, wouldn't have stood the light of day - if we had such a thing in this country.

[Oversea Visitor]

116. Get real

When the people start putting blinkers in front of their eyes this is what happen. National security my ass. More like aaargh if the people find out we lose our job so you all look here for self preservation this cannot be release. Nice law make to protect themself.

[Beam Me Up]

117. The "National Security State" infrastructure is our biggest threat

It is all tied together folks. 9/11 was an inside job; a black-op perpetrated from within the highest ranks of the National Security State apparatus. Only certain individuals knew what was going on--certainly Cheney and Rumsfeld. They wanted their 'catalyzing Pearl Harbor event' and they got it. Mohammad Atta, Al Qaida and all that are nothing but patsies. The anthrax to certain journalists and Democrats put the message out--'you are either with us or against us'. I'll throw the Wellstone crash in here as well.

There are unelected men making decisions that effect all our lives. This country has been rotting from the inside out since before the Kennedy assassination but certainly since. We need a purge, a real purge. Getting rid of Bush and the neocons who rode in on his back would ONLY be a start. Until we--the people and their fairly elected representatives--have control of the NSS, until information can flow independent of either government or corporate control, our nation will be imperil from an enemy that is now and has always been INSIDE THE GATES.

edit typo

[louis-t]

27. Yes, but we feed them soooo well

after we rape them. :grr:

[orion9941]

28. Dear God

I never thought that I would see the day that I would be ashamed to be an American.

[understandinglife]

29. Russ quotes Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "... rape and murder"

Update 2: BB guestbar alum Russ Kick of Memory Hole reminds us of a post he made in May about the type of as-yet-unreleased evidence Hersh is presumably discussing. Here, Russ quotes Republican Senator Lindsay Graham: "The American public needs to understand, we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience. We're talking about rape and murder and some very serious charges."

Links:
http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh_children_raped.html
http://www.thememoryblog.org/archives/000155.html
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/headline/world/2557175

Update 3: BoingBoing reader Lars has an update from Germany -- some European media perspective on the allegations:

"Report Mainz" reported already on 5th July 2004 about the potential abuse of children in Abu Ghraib. ..... You can see interviews with persons who testify that they have seen children arrested in Abu Ghraib and who have seen and have heard of a boy and a 12 year old girl terrified (cold water and mud were spilled over them) by guards or military personal. The boy and the girl were then used to terrify their also arrested parents who were willing to cooperate after seeing their children terrified by the guards/military personnel.

More at:
http://www.boingboing.net/2004/07/15/hersh_children_raped.html

TO THE HAGUE WITH ALL THESE CRIMINALS


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4173.htm


WE THE PEOPLE .... WILL NEVER FORGET

"... we sent our young people into harm's way without leveling with the American people." - Congresswoman Pelosi before Congress, 16 June 2005

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - Impeachment of Bush and Cheney; indictment and prosecution of all members of the Bush regime who participated in the deception, should be campaign promises of any candidate worthy of our vote in the 2006 Congressional elections.

[KingFlorez]

31. I'm sick to my stomach

How can we allow this kind of thing to happen? Bush has allowed America to committ the same atrocities that Saddam Hussein did and it makes me sick. It's a disgrace and Senator Durbin was right.

[cyberpj]

34. ACLU site has info on court ordered release of abuse photos and video

Note: DONATE TO ACLU if you can - they are doing some great work on our behalf and can use the help!

Federal Court Orders Government to Turn Over Videos and Photos Showing Detainee Abuse

June 2, 2005
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: [e-mail]

NEW YORK -- A federal judge has ordered the Defense Department to turn over dozens of photographs and four movies depicting detainee abuse at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq as part of an ongoing lawsuit brought by the American Civil Liberties Union.

(snip)

The court order filed late yesterday requires the government by June 30 to reprocess and redact 144 detainee abuse photographs provided by Sergeant Joseph Darby to the Army’s Criminal Investigation Command. The order also requires the government to provide the court with an estimate of the length of time it will take to reprocess and redact four movies included as part of the Darby collection by June 10. The decision comes after the court privately viewed eight of the images from the Darby collection to determine whether the photographs should be released under the FOIA. The ACLU expects redacted versions of the photographs to be released within the next six weeks.



http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=18393&c=206

[Kraklen]

42. Assuming that release date doesn't get stalled...

(which it could, but I sure hope not), it's going to blow the doors open on everything. It will probably be the most important scandal an American President has ever faced. I think people are underestimating the potential.

[berni_mccoy]

39. IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON

IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...
IMPEACH, INCARCERATE, IMPRISON...

[LuPeRcALiO]

44. completely repulsive

Great, now we're the United States of Pedophelia, and will be for the rest of time.

Karl, you're a genius.

[IChing]

48. German TV had a documentary on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1862817

[Love Bug]

49. Is there anything Saddam did that we haven't done?

We haven't gassed the Kurds yet, but I guess that is coming. :sarcasm:

[CWebster]

50. we provided the gas. nt

[Kraklen]

51. He did that while a U.S. ally, with U.S. gas...

so we're equally responsible.

[Hissyspit]

86. We don't really know he did that. Much of it is demonization...

Iran may have done that deed during the Iran/Iraq War. Saddam was/is a sociopath, and did many terrible things, but it is very difficult to separate the facts from the mythology.

[BigBearJohn]

52. When a friend of mine serving in the Gulf War came back he told me stories

of Older Iraq men sodomizing younger Iraq men.

Seemingly it was "ok" - but rape a woman and you were in trouble.
(his words, not mine).

[CWebster]

55. Foreigners are always perverts

especially "the enemy". it is essential to demonize them in order to wage aggression. The home team are always squeaky clean heros.

[Boo Boo]

105. Yes. I've read this in more than one place.

It is quite possible that Iraqi policemen were doing the raping, I've read other reports from Iraq to that effect. In many cases Iraqi policemen were the arresting officers, often using arrest and fear of being handed over to the Americans to extort money---If you don't pay, you end up in Abu Ghraib. If it is true that Iraqis were committing this crime it doesn't absolve the US, because it is our prison and what happens inside of it is ultimately GW's responsibility. It could not have happened without Americans being complicit to some degree, spectators if you will, and judging by the behavior of men like Grainer it could certainly be more than that.

[NYdemocrat089]

56. That is disgusting!

I hope these allegations are false (although I have a bad feeling they arn't)!

[IChing]

63. Norway protests child abuse in Iraq (July 6 2004)

Norway protests child abuse in Iraq (July 6 2004)

Norwegian authorities reacted with shock and disgust Tuesday to a documentary on German TV that American soldiers allegedly have been holding children in prisons in Iraq, and abusing them as well. The Norwegians joined the Red Cross and Amnesty International in calling for an immediate end to the abuse, and release of the underage prisoners, some of whom are as young as 12 years.
In one case, a girl around age 15 was said to have been shoved up against a wall by a group of male soldiers who proceeded to manhandle her. They then started ripping off her clothes, and she was half-naked before military police broke in.

In another case, a boy aged 15 or 16 was stripped naked and sprayed with water before being placed in an open truck and driven around in the cold night air last winter. He then was covered with mud.

"These types of attacks are absolutely unacceptable," said a spokesman for Norwegian Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik. "They violate international law and are morally indefensible."

Odd Jostein Sæter of the prime minister's office told Norwegian Broadcasting (NRK) Tuesday that Norwegian officials will react "both politically and diplomatically" to their US counterparts.

>>>>snip http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article823183.e...

[NVMojo]

107. I hope they come out with the truth and it gets spread far and wide.

We will be hard to forgive in the world once that happens. Of course, Bush Family evil empire wants WWWIII.

[Roland99]

60. From "An Audience With Seymour Hersh"

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/03/04/an-audience-with-seymour-hersh/

...The American intelligence had no solid information as to the true size of the Iraqi resistance. Some thought a couple thousand while others said as many as 20,000. At one point, several thousand detainees were held in Abu Ghraib alone. That would have been half the resistance if everyone detained were part of the resistance. That was, sadly, very far from the truth.

The Pentagon began inventing facts to cover for the attacks and the massive roundup of “insurgents” that made their way to prisons, such as Abu Ghraib. Hersh pointed out that the U.S. was incapable of obtaining decent intelligence on the Iraqi resistance but is apparently very adept at picking up on “sensitive communications” between bin Laden and Zarqawi that happen to make it to FOX News broadcasts.

The Iraqi resistance has the government wired. They have people in various key areas of the government. Hersh made a point of emphasizing that. In the meantime, American intelligence about the resistance remains at about the same level as it did eighteen months ago, scattered and incomplete. This lack of intelligence is what led to wholesale roundups of suspected members of the resistance (for a prime example of how house-to-house searches were conducted, see the Extra Features on the Fahrenheit 9/11 DVD. Specifically, the interview with the Swedish journalist who went along with American troops on house-to-house searches in Samarra.) Most of the detainees were kept in Abu Ghraib. Abu Ghraib has a notorious reputation amongst Iraqis. It is the site of the most heinous acts against prisoners by Saddam Hussein and his supporters during his reign. The Americans at Abu Ghraib, however, took things even further. Aside from the heinous actions involving beatings, using dogs trained to bite the groin areas, and even outright murder, one aspect that has raised the ire amongst Iraqis, Muslims, and others around the world, is the sexual abuse levied against the prisoners. Hersh prefaced this segment of his speech by stating that those involved in the actual application of abuse and torture in Abu Ghraib were not just acting out of ignorance or out of being victims of circumstance (understaffing an over-crowded prison.) On the contrary, the specific actions taken had to only be at the behest of people in charge of the intelligence gathering in Iraq. This goes all the way to the White House.

Hersh went into a bit of detail in the drafting of the so-called Torture Memo by Jay Bybee approved by now-Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and consulted by now-Secretary of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff. This Torture Memo was written with one goal in mind, creating a narrowly defined term of torture that would allow the Bush administration a great amount of latitude in its techniques for obtaining information. This all began with abuse and torture of prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Some of the detainees at Guantanamo were elderly men, as old as being in their 80s, who were in no way a part of Al Qaeda or the Taliban in Afghanistan. When these innocent people were finally released, some released more than two years after being captured, Hersh opined, if they were not enemies of America before, they were now. U.S. techniques were creating more enemies and were resulting in useless information as detainees were confessing to anything in order to stop the torture and abuse.

At Abu Ghraib, the Bush administration orchestrated policies that were focused on humiliating detainees through sexual means. In the Muslim world, sex is an incredibly taboo subject. Men are not allowed to touch women in certain situations, being seen naked or forced to perform certain sexual acts brings shame upon a family that, in Muslim society, is a sentence worse than death. This was surely known by members of the Bush administration that recruited people to setup and train officers and interrogators at the prisons. We now know that five key men all had severe human rights abuses in their past careers in running prisons here in America. This was surely known by Ashcroft, despite the statements otherwise by the DOJ Inspector General. Hersh was also made aware of first-hand stories from former detainees of Abu Ghraib. He found that some woman at Abu Ghraib were so ashamed of the sexual abuse to which they were submitted that they sent messages to their family and friends to kill them when they came to visit them in the prison or when they were released. They were so ashamed of what was done to them or what they saw that they preferred to be killed than to live with the shame. Other prisoners were intimidated by the taking of photos of them in various sexual positions. These photos were used as carrots to get the prisoners to join the resistance report back to the officers with intelligence on the resistance. Failure to do so meant that the photos would be disseminated around their village and they would forever be shamed. The actual group in charge of Abu Ghraib was previously involved in traffic control and could not have known of the extreme taboo surrounding Muslims and sexual abuses. These orders had to have come from above.

The abuses at Abu Ghraib are also leaving an indelible mark in the psyche of the “worker-bee” soldiers ordered to take the photos and carry out some of the abuses. An example is the case of a female soldier who returned to the States, Indiana, specifically, from Iraq. Her mother noticed a marked change in her daughter’s attitude. The soldier’s condition worsened and wouldn’t even talk or meet with her mother. The mother, however, did come across a CD during a visit to her daughter’s home. On that CD was a folder named “Iraq” and it contained many photos of the abuses that occurred in Abu Ghraib. As a reaction to the stress, this female soldier had been consistently going to a tattoo parlor and had been having her body covered in black tattoos....

[paula777]

65. It states "It's going to come out" WHEN?? When will this come out so

people will be OUTRAGED. Someone has to leak this to the media. Will the media play it if it's leaked? We need a modern day 'deep throat' to leak the actual video of this to someone in the media that will actually air it so we can put an end to this horrid behavior. This is just unacceptable.

[killbotfactory]

68. We are not acting like nazi's, so stop saying that!

:puke:

[kitkat65]

69. But afterward they got a lovely fajita dinner with a fresh sprig o parsley

That congress would knowingly turn their backs on such atrocities is disgusting and evil.

[burythehatchet]

75. and 2 types of fruit

[katinmn]

83. and ceegars after

:sarcasm: :grr:

[zann725]

102. And rice PILAF. It's the 'pilaf,' ya know,that puts "lipstick" on the PIG

called Abu Gharib.

[Mabus]

80. Does anyone else get a sudden change in the video at 1:20:00 point?

It suddenly cuts out to the introduction of the comedian, Greg Propps(?). Seymour's above-referenced comments have been edited out of the ACLU video. That's freaky. I guess they don't want this information out there.

[FreedomAngel82]

81. It's so heartbreaking and disgusting

*sigh* :(

[Catherine Vincent]

82. We here at DU have heard about this.

When this gets out, look out. You know it will, because something like this doesn't stay hidden for long. Whether these were contractors or our servicemen, it was done in the name of the US. Our fearless leader started this war and whatever atrocity that happens during this war is his responsibility.

[okieinpain]

85. well given the previous reports that had to be retracted I'll wait until

the pictures come out. don't get me wrong, I believe it's possible especially when you put private soldiers in charge of our soldiers anything can happen. I'm just not going to spread the story until they show the pics.

[Hissyspit]

87. Nothing wrong with prudence, but. members of Congress have been...

quoted as saying that the unreleased pictures they saw were WORSE than what was seen it what got out.

[katinmn]

98. agreed. But I think asking our congressional reps to look into it

is the thing to do, otherwise it will just get tossed under the rug with all the other dirt.

[applegrove]

88. Is this from Saddam's time? Cause lots went on there that did involve

rape when Saddam was in power.

[IChing]

90. Please read this and the thread.

Norway protests child abuse in Iraq (July 6 2004)

Norwegian authorities reacted with shock and disgust Tuesday to a documentary on German TV that American soldiers allegedly have been holding children in prisons in Iraq, and abusing them as well. The Norwegians joined the Red Cross and Amnesty International in calling for an immediate end to the abuse, and release of the underage prisoners, some of whom are as young as 12 years.
In one case, a girl around age 15 was said to have been shoved up against a wall by a group of male soldiers who proceeded to manhandle her. They then started ripping off her clothes, and she was half-naked before military police broke in.

In another case, a boy aged 15 or 16 was stripped naked and sprayed with water before being placed in an open truck and driven around in the cold night air last winter. He then was covered with mud.

"These types of attacks are absolutely unacceptable," said a spokesman for Norwegian Prime Minister Kjell Magne Bondevik. "They violate international law and are morally indefensible."

Odd Jostein Sæter of the prime minister's office told Norwegian Broadcasting (NRK) Tuesday that Norwegian officials will react "both politically and diplomatically" to their US counterparts.

>>>>snip http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article823183.e...

[lady lib]

89. Yesterday I read about napalm use...and now this.

I weep for my country and I weep for the innocent Iraqis caught up in this neocon nightmare. Is there a level of hell deep enough for these monsters?

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

[many a good man]

91. Get the facts straight

Sy Hersh was careful to say IRAQIS raped the minors under the supervision of American guards. Americans only raped adults.

Repukes will be correct in saying "American troops did not rape children." Let's not go there. The truth is horrible enough.

[LuPeRcALiO]

92. Useful distinction but you know what?

I don't think it makes the least bit of difference. Whether they did it themeselves or coerced Iraqis to do it is equally reprehensible. In fact it might be worse.

[Spectral]

96. Good point.

We have sunk very low as a nation.

[Frederik]

104. But the Americans filmed

the Iraqi soldiers while they did it. Not much of a difference.

[librechik]

93. 13 percent

that's my guess about Shrub's approval rating after the American Public sees those videos and pics--within days!

[d_b]

94. Holy....

If Sy is correct I hope justice is served.

What the hell have we turned into?

[Coexist]

99. this is too horrid to even think about

I am dreading the release of those pictures. It will be very painful.

[LiberalEsto]

100. This is sickening.

The Bush cabal have become monsters, creating more monsters, who in turn are creating more monsters. Monsters who sexually assault children.

Didn't Michael Jackson just go through a trial for allegedly doing that?
Why isn't there a star-studded media extravaganza covering a trial of those responsible for these crimes by Americans? Why isn't there an international tribunal investigating this?

Everyone responsible for this must be brought to justice and punished.

[wishlist]

103. Our Senators have seen the pics, but are afraid of more beheadings, etc

Shortly after the first pics were made public, the extreme retaliation and beheadings began occurring in Iraq. Senators who initially favored releasing the full details of the most inflammatory pics to get everything out in the open changed their tune preferring to hush up the most shocking info for fear of inciting even more violence against Americans.

[NVMojo]

106. I am sickened! Send it to Senator Reid! All of us!!

[Nikki Stone 1]

109. God this is just awful. Maybe this is why some Repubs are calling for

withdrawal from Iraq.

This is evil, folks. When Dubya starts talking about evil, he should looking in the frigging mirror.

[The Backlash Cometh]

110. I'll say it again, before too long, we'll all be apologizing to Michael

Jackson for calling him a freak and pervert. Jeez.

[realcountrymusic]

111. Hardly news, alas

This has been out there for more than a year. It amazes me that no reporter has had the cojones to ask His Chimpiness *directly* "do you know if it is true that the pentagon has videos documenting the sexual abuse of minors at Abu Ghraib?" Get HIM on the record about it.

IF this is not true, we have been mightily set up. Despite what some say in this thread, Sy Hersh (whom I love) does NOT have a perfect track record. He relies on anonymous sources, and he is capable of reporting incorrect information. He's said as much himself. It concerns me that no Democrat senator who saw these materials has gone on record with a detailed description. We will look like liars -- crying wolf -- if the eventual release does not live up to the full horror that circulates as rumor, innuendo, and anonymous tips. This may be the mother of all Rovian tricks to discredit the opposition, as in "these antiwar nuts will even accuse America of raping kids."

Don't get me wrong. I think this stuff has gone on, I think we've already seen enough evidence to start the war crimes trials, etc. But this could be the MOAB of the summer, and could truly be gasoline on the building fire of disgust with this war in this country. We owe it to our cause to be cautious, judicious, NOT to take even the slightes schadenfreude pleasure in the shame it will cause our government and military, and not to speculate wildly about what the unreleased materials might document. We simply need to ask "what evidence is there, and what are they going to do about it?"

The ACLU has played this carefully and right. Let's keep it that way. We are going to see what they have locked up in the pentagon shortly unless a higher court intervenes soon.

RCM

[opihimoimoi]

112. Its stories like this that makes our success extremely Difficult....

Its Presidents like Bush who make it almost impossible....

[Independent_Liberal]

113. This is horrible...

How could we sink this low?

[kittenpants]

118. the American people need to know what * is doing in our name

spreading freedom my ass

[Igel]

119. MIchael Jackson was presumed innocent until

proven guilty; guilt wasn't proven, so he's still presumed innocent.

Hersh says he was told that somebody saw videos confirming various reports made to the newspapers. Who needs a trial, or actual evidence? Hang the bastards. We need a good lynching ... it's the American way.

[mistertrickster]

120. WAIT, CHECK THE DATE--JULY OF 04

This is an old accusation--not that it isn't true, I believe it probably is.

But Hersch made this accusation quite awhile ago and so far nothing has come of it.

Maybe it was just one tangetial hired bastard who did it . . . we don't know.

Anyway, my point is that I've already been holding my breath on this and I'm getting tired of waiting. Hirsch should put up the evidence or shut up about it, and it looks as though he's chosen the latter.

[NVMojo]

121. Hersch can do no more than any MSM will let him. It takes the public and

our supposed "leaders" to fulfill the outrage required to give this some steam. There will be no "one hero." It has to be all of us or the cries of those tortured fall on silent slob ears.