Clark on CNN: Dean offered VP slot as much as it could be offered.

[Karmadillo]

Maybe someone will post a transcript when one becomes available (interview with Judy Woodruff). Clark noted he had agreed to keep the conversation private, but the Dean campaign has been attempting to bolster its foreign policy credentials by suggesting Clark would be the VP. He did use the word "dangle", but it was clear he thought the offer had been made as specifically as such an offer could be under the circumstances.

[in_cog_ni_to]

1. Right,

so in essence, Dean is lying. All he's doing is parsing words. Of course he couldn't come right out and ask him to be VP because HE AIN'T THE PRESIDENT! He no doubt dangled it and Dean doesn't want people to know that he WANTS Clark to be his VP, his campaign is using Clark as VP hopeful to get people to vote for Dean and Dean NEEDS someone like Clark in order to win.

ALSO....Dean should be PROUD, again, because Bay Buchanan just now defended DEAN in this argument. :eyes: I know, I know...the republicans don't REALLY want Dean to win....they're "ascared." :scared:.....:eyes:

Once again, a RW, ass kissing WH talking head defends Dean. I'm sorry! That is not NORMAL POLITICS PEOPLE! Republicans DO NOT defend Democrats...it just isn't done. :(

[Patriot_Spear]

7. Your interpretation is not the only one available.

It's not how I see it.

[helleborient]

21. Normally, Republicans don't switch parties and run for Pres. as Dems

Either...but Wesley Clark has turned that upside down.

[lurk_no_more]

83. If you could

would you be kind enough to produce a link that shows Clark was a Republican.

Thank You!

[eileen from OH]

2. I'm sorry but this is so stoopid. . .

I'd like to see one instance where the Dean campaign (not Dean supporters) suggested that Clark would be the VP.

And, to reiterate what I said before, the General ain't exactly inspiring people to speak confidentially with him. They outta be real careful what they say in private with him, cuz evidently that doesn't mean very much to him.

I'm guessing that this kind of fishing expedition, complete with hypotheticals, and what ifs goes on all the time in the background and in private conversations.

And, again, it's soooo stoopid. What does it gain Clark? How does it hurt Dean? They both should shut up about it.

eileen from OH

[Padraig18]

4. I agree, eileen.

Dean said what he said, and Clark heard what he heard. No one wins in a tie. :shrug:

[jpgpenn]

25. wrong!

Dean is showing his true colors more and more everyday. He is a slow deflating balloon.

[jonnyblitz]

26. and you know for sure because you were there right?

that's as dumb as me saying CLark was the one lying. How in hell does ANYBODY know?

[Padraig18]

27. Huh?

'True colors'? What does that mean, exactly?

[jpgpenn]

36. you ask folks to explain things..

over and over again to you ...alot.

[Padraig18]

39. Do I?

I don't, actually. What I do ask for is factual explanations, and not platitudes.

[CatWoman]

6. thank you Eileen

I was about to post myself just how petty and dumb this entire issue is.

Who the fuck cares?? :shrug:

[Bread and Circus]

8. So it's ok for Dean to lie? Again?

What's with this party anymore?< > Recom

[eileen from OH]

13. See, that's what pisses me off

why do you and others insist that every contradiction of any Dem by another Dem or by a pundit or by a campaign manager or because it's contrary to something they said 15 years ago is a fucking LIE?

You don't know what happened at a one-on-one meeting.
I don't know what happened at a one-on-one meeting.
WE WEREN'T THERE.
NOBODY ELSE WAS THERE.

It was (supposedly, ha!) a private conversation.

Why don't we save our use of the word LIAR for Bush, Cheney, Ashcroft, Powell, Rice, DeLay, Rove, Blair and all the other dickheads who are the REAL BLOODY LIARS.

It diminishes ALL our candidates and leaves us nothing worse to call the people that are REALLY screwing this country.

eileen from OH

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eileen from OH]

88. Well, actually,

before I interpret and synthesize with my tiny little effing brain, I actually try to get the effing FACTS, rather than twisting the effing punditocracy's rumor mill to make it fit the way I want it to.

And since no one except the two people who were in that room know the effing FACTS, I tend to think the honorable man is the one who respected what was acknowledged by both to be a private conversation.

Just as I think it's entirely possible to have a discussion, even a heated one, without talking down to and questioning the intelligence of my opponent.

Too bad you don't effing think so.

eileen from OH

[Padraig18]

14. You don't and *can't* 'know' thaty it was a lie, doc.

You weren't there. Logic 101.

[Bread and Circus]

68. Logic 101 says that either Clark or Dean is lying...

my money is on Dean being the liar.

I like you Padraig, you are a straight-up DU'er whom I
respect....

But dammit, I just know Dean dangled the VP slot in front of
Clark and now he is denying it. That means Dean is lying. Unless
Clark made it up. Why the F would he do that? It doesn't fit his
style.

[Padraig18]

71. Think of it this way:

Have you ever had a discussion with someone, and thought you understood them to say one thing, only to find out later in conversation that the other person did not understand the same thing you understood at all? Serious question--- miscommunication.

BTW, thanks for the compliment. doc; I feel the same way about you.

[Bread and Circus]

77. Argh, I can't argue w/ Padraig!

I have to admit, I can't spar with you because there is just
something so fair about your approach.

But I deal w/ people everyday in an intimate way (about 30+ people/day) as a doctor and I have come very sensitive to what
people say and what people mean. It doesn't take a rocket scientist
to know what was implied in the meetings between Dean and Clark.
Be honest w/ yourself Padraig. Both men are inferring something
diametrically opposed and it is not because they "misunderstood
each other". There were too many meetings, it was too close to
Clark's announcement, and it fits too closely w/ Dean's (self-admitted)hole on national defense for it not to be the way Clark portrays it. That's what makes sense.

Why the fuck would they have met if it wasn't for
those sorts of reasons? The only other reason would be Dean seeking advice from Clark and why would he need to do that so much?

This is just like the "it came from around the White House" statement. Clark can't "out" his sources to prove it, but you know it fits. We know the White House did and is trying to tie SH to OBL and 911. The same logic can be applied here. It's the most likely scenario. If neither guy was suggesting it, I wouldn't go here, but
Clark is and he is for a reason. It happened.

[Bread and Circus]

78. Oh, and the reason I am going ballistic lately is that above all..

I want to be led by an honorable President, whether or
not it is Clark.

That's also why I changed my sig and avatar.

[White Mountain]

87. Sabbotage

As a Dean supporter, I don't trust Clark. This makes it harder. Not wise to hitch our wagon to his stars. To self focused.

Dean deserves better. Loyalty might be a start.

Clark gives me heart burn!

[Larkspur]

3. Clark starting to sound desperate.

He must see his poll numbers diving and had to do something to stop the bleeding and maybe salvage a shot at #2 position.

The only name I heard in contention for Dean's VP slot is Sen. Graham, who bowed out earlier. Dean said in public that Graham was on his VP short list. He never said anything about Clark. Graham would bolster Dean's foreign policy platform more so than Clark and Graham would give Dean something that Clark doesn't have -- experience working in Congress.

[dave29]

10. No

Dean has always said Clark would be on the VP short list, but it was too early to speculate. In fact he said Clark would be on anyone's shortlist. Just like he says all of the other candidates would be better than Bush, and would support them if they were the nominee. The same can not be said of the other candidates re: Dean.

I wonder if he still feels the same way now that Clark seems to be trying to gain political advantage with this.

Probably Clark just worried about GA and SC numbers.

[in_cog_ni_to]

12. Dean is the desperate one.

His campaign is the one sending out letters telling "prospective supporters" that Clark WILL be his VP. That is a flat out lie. Now, who's desperate?

[dave29]

16. umm

I didn't get any email about Clark being the VP, nor did anyone else I know, what are you talking about here?

[beyurslf]

17. I didn't get that letter and I know of no one who did.

I co-host the meet-ups here and I am sure someone would have said something to me if they had received this.

[helleborient]

23. Got a copy of one of those letters to back up your accusation?

[in_cog_ni_to]

33. It was posted by

Frenchie4Clark that this has been going on. That's where the info comes from. Maybe the next time you see Frenchie4Clark post, you can ask about it.

[maxanne]

38. bwaaaahahahaha

There's a reliable source.

IF there were letters going out that said such a thing, I'd have gotten one. I'd have gotten one at each of my email addresses, in fact.

This is a stupid, petty waste of everyone's time.

[in_cog_ni_to]

80. See if post 56 is funny, n/t

[maxanne]

85. that's a pretty vague

story, dude. I don't see where the offer was definitely made, or refused. I don't see going steady, or getting married there, either.

Has it occured to you that maybe CLARK is exaggerating this, to puff himelf up, since he isn't doing so well?

[Jerseycoa]

76. Have you seen this letter?

I would like to see it if you ever come across one. I heard flyers, too, as well as telephone scripts. This is something, if true, would indicate to me that Clark had to say what he said. I know it was his given reason that he is finally speaking to the point and I have no personal doubt he had to do it. But, this Dean campaign material would prove to others that Clark had to put an end to use of his reputation by an opponent's campaign.

Rumors about use of a Dean/Clark pairing in obtaining labor endorsements, as far as I know, have never been confirmed. It might be said that Lara Bergthold's statement is biased, which is why I would like to see the above campaign pieces if they exist.

Politics NH 12/22/03

Clark spokesman Matt Bennett maintained that Dean discussed the ticket with Clark, citing an account by former Dean campaign member Lara Bergthold.

Bergthold, who in September served on Dean's National Finance Committee but is now Clark's political director, recalled talking with Dean after he and Clark had met privately and that Dean told her that the vice presidency was discussed.

[in_cog_ni_to]

79. Excellent post, Jerseycoa

straight from a Dean supporters mouth. Of course that's just hearsay.
:eyes:

[jpgpenn]

19. LOL

ok if u say so.

[ibegurpard]

5. That sounds a little like backpedalling to me

If Clark is smart he'll let this die real fast...otherwise he looks really petty.

[Bread and Circus]

11. Why, because no one should stand up to Dean when he lies?

[Padraig18]

15. You don't and *can't* know that Dean lied, doc.

You weren't there. Logic 101.

[sandnsea]

29. Lies are beautiful things

You can't prove a lie. You can't argue a lie. That's how the Republicans win, if you think about it.

[Padraig18]

31. Maybe no one was lying.

Dean said what he said, and Clark heard what he heard. It's not a unique situation unheard of in human history. :)

[sandnsea]

37. yeah, I'm dillusional again

I don't remember that half this board was freaking about "what if they find the WMD"; the same people who now KNEW there weren't any.

And I don't remember the Dean supporters totally ecstatic about Dean's meetings with Clark and Dean wanting Clark as V.P.

It's just my imagination.

[Padraig18]

41. The point is:

Neither you, nor I, know what was said. Only the two people who were present do, and they disagree.

[sandnsea]

45. I'll trust the one who hasn't lied repeatedly n/t

[Padraig18]

47. LOL!

That's certainly a reasoned, substantive reply! :P

[jpgpenn]

22. yea pretty bad for Dean that is!

everyday that goes by Dean's true colors are showing. He will say anything to be elected . this is no different.

[helleborient]

24. Switching parties to get elected seems rather extreme, no?? (n/t)

[robbedvoter]

30. Which party was that? 99% Arkansas do not list party affiliation

Dean was repeating this lie just as he was pushing the VP thingy (he said it on a talk show in November as well - someone - remind me please). VP + lying about Clark simultaneously, just as Clark refused to be baited by the press into attacking HD and kept it on W the whole time. Of course the 2 candidates have different notions on the ethical value of lying, so that explains the whole thing.

[Padraig18]

28. Do you *know* what was said in that meeting?

Answer: No.

[robbedvoter]

32. This was started by Snaffi & Trippi - and it illuminates you all that you

that you have holes that need plugging.
http://Blog.forclark.com/story/2003/12/22/13729/055
And stealing Clark's good name stops now!

[Padraig18]

35. "...stealing Clark's good name ...."

That's a bit over the top, don't you think? :eyes:

[Upfront]

9. Who Cares

Seems to me if this is what Clark is running on, "Dean said I could be VP", then he has bigger problems then he said, no I said. . All any of the anti-Dean candidates have to do is win some primarys and then someone may care what they think. I know it is silly to inply that Clark is running just to be VP, but no more silly then this phony issue.

[robbedvoter]

20. Better than the need to plug holes, non? If you missed this:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_07.html#001940
(September 11, 2003 -- 11:39 PM EDT // link // print)
This piece by Dan Balz is Friday's Washington Post strikes me as a very accurate assessment of the swirl currently whipping around Wes Clark and the pressure on him to get off the dime.

-- Josh Marshall

(September 11, 2003 -- 03:57 PM EDT // link // print)
Aha! More news about Dean Campaign Manager Joe Trippi's 'he's-begging-to-be-our-VP' dirty tricks campaign against Wes Clark. This from the just-posted edition of USNews' Washington Whispers ...

And forget about that talk that all the retired four-star general and former NATO boss wants is the veep nomination. Supporters say that's a dirty-tricks campaign pushed by rival Howard Dean who's scared of a Clark candidacy. Says Frisby: "Wes Clark firmly believes that he is the best choice to be president, not be vice president or hold any other government post."
Leave it to TPM to bring you the scoop first.
****

[beyurslf]

18. Who cares who asked whom what?

We can never know what was really said. Why is this an issue?

[Bread and Circus]

70. Is that what all the Dean supporters want us to do, look the other way...

everytime a man lies, a piece of the world dies.

[BootinUp]

34. Check this NH poll data - VP choices

I think it explains why Clark wants the fact he will not accept VP slot out in the open:

http://www.suffolk.edu/opa/news/12_08_03poll.html

polled on 12-5-03 thru 12-7-03

In other findings from the 7NEWS-Suffolk University poll, Wesley Clark (19%) was New Hampshire’s Democratic top choice for Vice President, followed by Joe Lieberman (13%). In fact, among Dean voters in New Hampshire, Clark was clearly the VP pick with 29%, followed by Kerry with 13%.

A bunch of Dean supporters think they can have Dean/Clark on the ticket, but it ain't the case.

[robbedvoter]

40. Here's HD confirming he told Blitzer about the VP thingy:

Newsnight November 12 with Wolf Blitzer substituting for Aaron Brown
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0311/12/asb.00.html
.
BLITZER: You told me a few months ago that you would seriously consider him as your running mate.
DEAN: I think that's true. He would be, certainly, on anybody's short list. He certainly has the ability to do that.

[Padraig18]

42. That doesn't confirm anything but the obvious:

Clark is on any sane person's 'short list' for VP. :eyes:

[ibegurpard]

43. And I am heartened by the continuing effort to make an issue out of this

It looks like nothing but Clark whining about whether or not he was offered a VP slot. Keep it up, guys! :thumbsup:

[Padraig18]

44. It's a silly tempest in a teapot.

"Marsha! Marhsa! Marsha!" :P

[0rganism]

46. I'm trying to decide if this is an important issue

(With apologies to South Park...)

Economy is diving
Bombs are flying
Children are dying
Bushco is lying

Media whores are shilling
Pollution is killing
The whole world's gone to hell
But how are you?

I'm super
Thanks for asking
All things considered
I couldn't be better I must say

I'm feeling super
No, nothing bugs me
Everything is super when you're
Don't you think I look cute in this hat

I'm so sorry
Mr. Cripple
But I just can't feel too bad for you right now.
Because I'm feeling
So insanely super
That even the fact that you can't walk
Can't bring me down

Background singers:
He's super
Thanks for asking
All things considered
He couldn't be better he must say

[Bread and Circus]

72. Honesty is more important than issues...because good...

decisions follow from good hearts.

[batman]

48. "as much as it could be offered" interesting how the talking points change

from day to day.

[Cheswick2.0]

49. this is an unbelievably petty non issue

I am starting to think Clark is a loose cannon.

[Padraig18]

51. "Nero fiddles while Rome Burns"

I don't mean that as a dig at Clark, but I could hardly agree more, Cheswick; this whole 'issue' is laughable. :P

[FrenchieCat]

52. Dean lies....

that's what is important about this issue. I thought Dean said he would only lie if it was in reference to National Security matters....well this doesn't qualify:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/24/dean/
Dean launches 'Sleepless Summer Tour'
Would consider Wesley Clark as running mate
Monday, August 25, 2003 Posted: 11:28 AM EDT (1528 GMT)

Dean-Clark in 2004?
On Sunday, Dean told CNN's "Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer" that -- if nominated by his party -- he would consider tapping retired U.S. Army Gen. Wesley Clark as a vice presidential running mate.

"Yes," Dean said when asked whether he would consider asking the former NATO supreme commander to join his ticket.

"There would be a great many people, of course, that would be considered as a potential running mate. And I must say, I think it's much too early to discuss potential running mates. I mean, we're five months from the time the first official vote and delegate selection takes place.

"So I find it very premature. But I think Wes Clark, he's somebody I keep in close touch with. He's a terrific person, very bright, very capable, very thoughtful. Our views coincide on a number of matters, and he is -- I certainly can't say enough good things about him. It would be tough to run against him."

Clark, a former CNN military analyst, said Sunday on CBS' "Face the Nation" he would make a decision on whether to run for president "in the next week or two."

CNN's Heather Riley contributed to this report.

[FrenchieCat]

54. and Trippi Lies...

washingtonpost.com http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A57770-2003Sep10?language=printer
Gen. Clark Reportedly Is Asked to Join Dean


By Jim VandeHei and Dan Balz
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, September 11, 2003; Page A01

Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean has asked retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark to join his campaign, if the former NATO commander does not jump into the race himself next week, and the two men discussed the vice presidency at a weekend meeting in California, sources familiar with the discussions said.

Clark, in a telephone interview yesterday, said he did not want to comment about the private meeting. Asked about reports that the two men had discussed a wide range of issues, including endorsing Dean, joining the campaign, possible roles in a Dean administration and the vice presidency, he said only, "It was a complete tour of the horizon."

Later, an adviser quoted Clark as saying, "I have only one decision to make: Will I seek the presidency?"

It was the fourth time Dean and Clark have met face-to-face to discuss the campaign. No decisions were made at the California meeting because Clark is still considering a run for president. Clark is scheduled to make a speech Sept.19 at the University of Iowa, when many political insiders expect him to announce his intentions.

"Most of our conversations have been around my getting advice on defense, and sometime he asks me about domestic issues," Dean said in an interview yesterday. "This is a guy I like a lot. I think he's certainly going to be on everybody's list if he's not the presidential nominee himself." Dean declined to discuss their private conversations.

Dean has increasingly talked up Clark as a possible running mate or as a presidential candidate, pointing to the general's 33-year military record, which included a victory in Kosovo as commander of NATO forces in Europe. Dean's laudatory comments have fueled speculation among top Democrats that the two men might join forces soon on a Dean-Clark 2004 campaign.

[Padraig18]

"...sources familiar with the discussions said."

Come on, Frenchie4Clark, which one was it: were the alone when this 'VP offer' was allegedly made, or were there others present? your man says they were alone, so who are the "sources familiar with the discussions"? You can't have it both ways, you know?

[FrenchieCat]

60. Keep reading my posts...

go all the way down.

For you to think that Clark is not telling the truth about what was said is bizarre. Dean and Trippi both said that Clark was not asked....that is a lie....

Gee wiz, Dean told about everybody who would listen that he was considering Clark as VP. You think that he didn't actually discuss it with Clark.

Man, oh man....... This is Bizzaro World!

[Padraig18]

63. You fail to point out the lie.

A lie is a contradiction. No where in any of your, or any other Clark supporter's posts, has anyone shown where HD offered the VP slot to Clark--- nowhere.

[Padraig18]

55. Show me the 'lie'.

"There would be a great many people, of course, that would be considered as a potential running mate. And I must say, I think it's much too early to discuss potential running mates. I mean, we're five months from the time the first official vote and delegate selection takes place. "

There IS no lie, my friend.

[FrenchieCat]

57. Honey Child...

You are in Deanial!

[Padraig18]

59. Nope.

Just being logical.

[Patriot_Spear]

50. Smart move by Clark...

Hedging his bets.

[stickdog]

53. Clark on CNN: Rove offered me a job as much as it could be offered. (nt)

[FrenchieCat]

56. Actually what Dean said about Clark.....

Yahoo News
"Dean asked Clark in late summer of 2003 to join his campaign.

Democratic presidential front-runner candidate Howard Dean has asked retired Army general, NATO commander and SOUTHERNER (which we
absolutely NEED on the ticket!) from Arkansas, Wesley Clark to join
his campaign, sources familiar with the discussions said.

General Clark said he did not want to comment about the private
meeting. Asked about reports that the two men had discussed a wide
range of issues, including his endorsing Governor Dean, joining the
campaign, possible roles in a Dean administration and the vice
presidency, he said only, "It was a complete tour of the horizon."

It was only one in a string of times Dean and Clark have met face-to-
face to discuss the campaign. "Most of our conversations have been
around my getting advice on defense, and sometime he asks me about
domestic issues," Dean said in an interview. "This is a guy I like a lot. I think he's certainly going to be on everybody's list if he's not the presidential nominee himself." Dean would not however discuss their private conversations.

Ever since the Kennedy-Johnson 1960 ticket (and the birth of the
civil rights movement in the south) we have seen that no Democrat has won the White House without a SOUTHERNER on the ticket, who has clear presidential qualifications & ambitions himself. Dean and Clark have two things in common that if combined could prove formidable among Democratic voters: They both opposed the war in Iraq, and both are generating excitement on the Internet and with grass-roots activists.

Dean has increasingly talked up Clark as a possible running mate or as a presidential candidate, pointing to the general's 33-year
military record, which included a victory in Kosovo as commander of
NATO forces in Europe. Dean's laudatory comments have fueled
speculation among top Democrats that the two men might join forces
soon on a Dean-Clark 2004 campaign."
----------------------
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0309/11/lol.13.html

LIVE FROM...

Dean-Clark Ticket in '04?

Aired September 11, 2003 - 14:50 ET
TRANSCRIPT.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: A ticket featuring Dean and Clark in 2004?
Well, don't go printing those bumper stickers just yet. Aides to
Howard Dean confirm the apparent front-runner in the Democratic race
for president does want Wesley Clark's support. But the former NATO
commander is considering entering the race himself.
Our Jonathan Karl is watching the maneuvers from Capitol Hill -- Jon,
hello.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Daryn, some
fascinating maneuvers here on the Democratic front here.

Wesley Clark, the retired general, the former supreme allied
commander of NATO, has talked to Howard Dean several times about a
potential run for president. And officials close to both men say that Dean has asked for his support, should he decide not to run. One person familiar with those discussions also says thatDean floated or at least talked to him about the idea of the vice presidency, about eventually being Dean's vice presidential candidate.

But despite all of that, what I'm hearing from people close to Wesley Clark is that he is strongly leaning towards running for president. In fact, many people that I've spoken to close to Clark expect that he will announce next week that he is becoming a candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination. I know that Clark has spoken to several people about campaign staff, that he's begun putting together a campaign organization.

He's talked to Democratic strategists about potentially becoming
campaign manager. So there's a lot in the works here. I'm told by
people close to Clark that Clark has not made a final decision on
this. One person, a very senior Democrat who served in the Clinton
White House in a senior role, tells me that Clark is 90/10 in favor
of running for president, but that he hasn't yet pulled the trigger
in his own mind.

As for the former general, he's going tomorrow to Arkansas, where he
lives, to discuss this with his family. We know that, in the past, he has said that his wife, Gertrude, is very reluctant about a possible run. So that may be one very important person that he has to convince -- Daryn.

KAGAN: A couple of timing questions for you here, Jonathan.

First of all, to get back to the idea of his being a vice
presidential candidate, aren't we almost a year ahead of when those
kinds of announcements are made? Isn't that what the convention is
for?

(LAUGHTER)

KARL: That's exactly right. And, in fact, the Dean campaign says it
is way too premature to talk about this, about potential vice
presidential candidates.

But we know that the two of them, at least according to one person
familiar with the conversation, did talk about the vice presidency.
But you are right. It is way early. First, you need to become the
presidential nominee before you can get around to deciding who your
vice president is going to be.

KAGAN: And then another timing question on the general. He certainly
does like to think about stuff for a long time. We only recently
found out that he's even a Democrat. What does he gain by dragging
things out so long like this?

KARL: Well, the conventional wisdom for some time is that he had
waited too long.

But now there's a situation where there doesn't appear to be a clear
front-runner in the Democratic field. You could argue it's Howard
Dean, because he momentum in the key states of Iowa and New
Hampshire. But he is not very well-known nationally. A lot of
Democrats fear that Howard Dean does not have the experience, that he may be too far to the left.

So there is a sense that there needs to be something to shake up the
Democratic field among some Democrats. And, at this point, Wesley
Clark may be coming in at just the right time. He's coming in at a
time when there's a lot of unhappiness with the field.

KAGAN: Timing can be everything.

Jonathan Karl on Capitol Hill, thank you for that.

KARL: Sure.

[batman]

58. where does he say the position was offered.

i didnt see that part.

[Padraig18]

61. One slight problem there, Frenchie4Clark:

There was no offer of the VP slot in ANY of that voluminous post--not one word.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Padraig18]

74. The problem with your scenario is this:

you don't know, and can't know what was said in that room. My common sense is as good as yours, sweetie.

[jpgpenn]

82. Great Post!

:yourock:

[RetroLounge]

62. Well, I guess the Clark Campaign shows their Military

Acumen by shooting themselves in the foot.

When Dean does win the Nomination, and IMHO he will, why on earth should he even bother with Clark now?

"But you asked me, you did. Come on, ask me again, please!"

[BootinUp]

64. No problems with feet :)

A large number of Dean supporters think Clark could/would be on the ticket as Deans VP. This is letting them feel safer with Dean. When it becomes more clear this isn't going to happen, Clark will have an easier time taking some support from Dean in my opinion.

[Padraig18]

65. I would still like him on the ticket.

It has nothing to do with my being insecure about Gov. Dean. I happen to think that Gen. Clark is a superior individual, as do most Dean supporters, which is why this sudden influx of virulently anti-Dean Clark 'supporters' makes me wonder what's going on.

[BootinUp]

66. welcome to the final battle I guess

Its coming down to the wire, its going to get heated. but I see similar emotions on both sides. It'll be over before long.

[Padraig18]

75. We need to get away from "Marsha! Marsha!" stuff like this

There are so many HUGELY important issues out there that it just boggles my mind that this got more than 2 sentences on Page 45 of the local paper. :shrug:

[FrenchieCat]

73. Well then,

Support the "Superior" individual! Damn, we're supposed to be in this to win...not to be super loyal!

This is about 4 more years.....it ain't about anything else really.

This is what I say about the VP problem Dean has!
Dean has everything to gain from the rumor as many are questioning Dean's Foreign policy experience and his regional appeal. There are many in New Hampshire currently talking about how Dean operatives are telling them that Clark will be the VP on the Dean ticket. Of course this serves two purposes; plugs the giant gaping hole in Dean's resume, and disuades voters from having to choose between Clark and Dean. Many news sources are available supporting the fact that this rumor was making headlines back in mid August and early September. I am sure you all remember, because it was such a short time ago.

I believe that General Wes Clark does not need Howard Dean to "plug a hole in his resume". It appears that Clark could select anyone of a large number of "qualified" individuals to run as VP on a ticket. He might look for someone with Washington insider ties who is well versed in domestic policies. That would be just about any of a multitude of congressional and former congressional member. Clark as a degree in economics, has taught economics at West Point and has had administrative experience as a Base Commander and as SACEUR. In my opinion CIC (Commander in Chief) experience is nontransferable.

On the other hand, Howard Dean has everything to gain only if he has the correct VP pick. Even then it is questionable if attaching someone to your side would make a compelling case. Unfortunately Dean is only 1/2 of a candidate. He lacks Foreign policy experience, appeal to the military, a regional moderate image, Coattails in the South, has a bad tax policy to run on in a campaign, and personally is not very appealing (the anger factor).

I don't believe that Howard Dean could find a VP that would somehow neutralize all of his liabilities.

Thereby we must pick the better man to go up against Bush. That is what we have all be working for and wanting for too long....to blow it now, based on an initial pick.......

MINDS WERE MADE TO BE CHANGED, AND NOT TO TURN INTO STONE....just because.

[mikehiggins]

81. Do we have to keep doing this?

Don't all you people have somewhere to go, or something to do?

Isn't the Simpsons on or something?

Is Dean lying?

Is Clark lying?

Are civilians and soldiers still dying in Iraq?

Guess which question matters?

[Bread and Circus]

84. all 3 boss, and I think people dying stems from politicians lying

[madfloridian]

86. Here is the TPM entry, referring to the original WP article.

It is interesting, but there is no "there" there, really. It links to the article. This is from September 11, and it is interesting. But it is supposition by a well-known and well-respected blog.

I am not being critical. I think TPM is quite fair. I just read it over again two or 3 times to be sure I understood.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2003_09_07.html#001941

SNIP...."Is the Dean camp trying to set up Wes Clark? (Yep, I'm talkin' about you, Joe!) This Piece in today's Post says Dean and Clark "discussed the vice presidency at a weekend meeting in California." Read down into the article and there doesn't seem to be that much there there. But the story got picked up on CNN too. And now the story of the day is not those very active discussions Clark is having about his own presidential run, but the potential 'Dean/Clark alliance'. And if Clark decides to get into the race after all, doesn't that mean that he wobbled, that as recently as this week he was thinking of taking the number two slot from Dean, or endorsing Dean? (His opponents want to play to the 'indecision' meme, remember.) I think that's what some people would like us to think. The Post calls those people "sources familiar with the discussions." But I think we can imagine who those folks might be. ....."

There is a lot of implications but nothing in the way of proof.

[LandOLincoln]

89. So you're holding out for affidavits? n/t