DU's reactions to the DSMinutes are pretty much on track

[Stinky The Clown]

Screaming at every Dem who fails to say anything and canonizing those who do. Sanctify those who speak out and vilify those who don't.

I, for one, prefer to take a more ...... reasoned? ....... patient? .... yeah, that's a good word ..... a more patient view.

The DSM needs to grow its own legs on its own merit. All we can do is nurture it along. The fact is, DU's denizens (and denizens of other internet discussion sites) are way more informed and way more ahead of the curve than the average person on Main Street. And we're damned sick and tired of outrageous but true stories being ignored, ridiculed, or simply flushed away. We fear that the longer it takes, the less chance it will take root and grow.

While I understand these feelings, and, indeed, have had them myself, I honestly think slow and steady will win out in the end.

Further, while this is surely the smokingest smoking gun we've had in the last four and a half years, it is not the only story out there. Gitmo is bubbling up. Bolton is still an issue. So much more.

We need our leaders talking about all of them. I'm happy to allow this story stay with (the unbelievably strong and determined) John Conyers and the House for a bit longer. And while I'd like a mention or three from other Dem notables, I'm happy enough, just as an example, having Durban doing what he's doing and Dean doing what he's doing.

Consider, too, that we have NO POWER. If all we did was talk DSM 24/7, wall-to-wall, it would be child's play to paint it as partisan grandstanding. Right now, given our out-of-power status, the only way we can move this forward is with some support by at least a few on the other side. And that will take time .... and more sinking poll numbers and more outcry from Main Street and more poximity to the midterm elections and more bad news on other fronts and more ..... talking to the other side. I honestly thnk there will be at least a few repubs who will be ready to at least mention the DSM as being worthy of a more thorough hearing and airing. Sensenbrenner is not the only one who can exercise his control.

To be absolutely clear about this, I am in no way espousing a benign handling of the DSM. Quite the opposite. We need to keep it kicked and on page 1. I'm just saying we need to be other than outrageously 'in your face' about it. We need to work carefully and strategically all sides of the story.

And perhaps most important, we need to smack down fast and hard any Dem who speaks counter to the raising of the issue. Silence is acceptable. Self-interested grandstanding should NOT be tolerated. And to any Dem who dare do that, I would be more than happy to lead the pitchfork and torch brigade.

No, I'd rather see us allow DSM to grow naturally and to have our choir singing a full repertoire, not just one chorus of one song .... over and over and over.

I'm by no means an expert. But I'm a thinking person. And these are my views. But I'd like to hear your thoughts, too. I can be convinced by reasoned argument to change my views.

[Last Lemming]

1. Re:

The DSM needs to grow its own legs on its own merit. All we can do is nurture it along.

DU and other like minded organization shoved this issue down the media's throat--nothing seems to be growing on its own merit---what happened to the election fraud in Ohio--and we do have some power--we would have gotten nowhere if we hadn't--it's the power of saying "NO"

[Stinky The Clown]

3. There were no source documents in the BBV issues

There was/is only circumstantial evidence and (incredibly strong) statistical evidence. But no source documents. No smoking gun.

[Last Lemming]

6. You are right in a way

--if a political movement needs something pithy--and you can't get much pithier than "facts fixed around policies" then DSM are ideal

but isn't closing down a voting precinct for some "Terrorist Alert" pretty much prima faca (and I don't know how to spell that) evidence that something bad was going down?

[brindis_desala]

2. Amen, Amen, Amen. The truth is the stakes at play are so

high that we need every red stater (a misnomer I concede) to be persuaded to join the struggle and help win back Congress. This particular cabal that is running the US government plays for keeps. If they achieve their goals it will generations to undo them and frankly I don't think the planet can afford the time. They are corrupting everything they touch because they're STEALING! The minutes should be
expounded upon by pointing to their plan which was clearly not merely to appease Big OIL but illegal profiteering. I'm tired of pleading to hear these talking points from elected democrats:
Maybe they need to hear from a larger chorus...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1866833&mesg_id=1866833

[NMDemDist2]

4. Agreed H2S. As I stated in another thread....

I think the DSM is a topic where we want the wheels to grind slowly. The largest landslide starts with a few small pebbles. I'd hate to see the DSM peak too soon. The closer to the '06 elections the better IMO

[MichiganVote]

5. Time, slow growth isn't the issue. Repub spin is the issue.

The longer it takes Dem's to address any issue, the more fanatical the repub's spin it into no man's land. And anyway,its all out of DU's hands, its the blogs that are pushing this particular affair. Frankly, for the lives of 1700 known combat deaths, for the disputed others who died en route to Germany or in any other way, and for the innocent Iraqi's----this IS an in your face issue for me.

I have not noted any grandstanding on the part of Dem's on this board or any other in regard to DSM. You can't "nice" your way into securing an improved reputation or opinion from republican spinmeisters. It won't come about that way. And there is no losing a "vote" to the republican spin, that too is a story of their own creation.

People want the truth, they always want the truth. They also want to be in control of how much truth they can stomach. Well, sadly, there is a lot of truth that we all have to swallow, republican and democratic voters alike.

[kentuck]

8. they cannot spin and would not want to spin what has not yet come out

and there is more information to come, imo. That is why it is not going to die anytime soon.

[MichiganVote]

10. Looking forward to it. As the man said, 'bring it on'

[stillcool]

7. I have all but given up....

on the 'leaders' of the Democratic Party, the corporate media, and the institutions of government. Nothing yet, and there has been no lack of shit hitting the fan, has had any impact at all. So, where my hope lies is outside the structure of government and to the victims of our governments brutality, arrogance, and greed.

[Robin Hood]

9. COnsidering that the dogs of war continue to bury this flower.

I'd say that we are doing as much nurturing of this as we can.

[peacetalksforall]

11. I think slow and steady is OK because it allows time to not allow them to

get away with more lies. Just this morning Frank Gaffney is on C-Span telling the world (in effect) that Clinton authorized action against Iraq. If we can dig in on the details of their deflective lies and refute them to every one we talk to and bring them up as an example of what is being pulled down over their eyes and ears, we will help those who have the authority to keep pushing. (For the benefit of those who don't know, Clinton only signed an HR that allowed funds and support for Iraqis to pursue the overthrow of Hussein on their own. He never signed for bombing.)

The problem of stories dying lies with the stalling that takes place every time this Administration has to answer a letter or has to answer some written questions. Knowing that the corporate propaganda networks are not going to pursue anything and knowing that Rove will push rovian themes for his radio talking mouths.

Another problem is the right wing majority.

We must help our brothers and sisters learn - since we are gifted with the knowledge that comes from diggers, thinkers, leakers, and other concerned souls and who are passionate about not losing our country to these destroyers.