Guts, Balls, Cojones...

[Totally Committed]

Backbone.... Whatever you call it, it's what I expect from a leader. It's what I look for first. I'll save you the search, and tell you up front, it's why I support Wes Clark (which, in and of itself, is not what this post is about.)

But, it's also why I support others in the Democratic Party, too: Barbara Boxer, John Conyers (the Congressional Black Congress, almost en masse, actually), Mario Cuomo, Barney Frank, Ted Kennedy, and lately, Howard Dean.

The Democratic Party has become, with the exception of those I just named, the most disappointing conglomeration of appeasers, apologists, and middle of the road, lily-livered corporate/special interest whores on the face of the earth.

No one dislikes the neo-cons more than I do -- I disagree with everything they do, stand-for, say, believe, and feel. But, one thing I have to say about them: They know what they want, and they go, lock-step if necessary, after it like a group of pit-bulls. There are no wimpy apologists, no appeasers, no renegades. You are either with them or they're against you... even if you are a fellow Republican. It's the Neo-Con way or the highway. They don't tolerate dissent. They don't allow an alternate view. It's the Bush Doctrine of World Domination or the risk of being "targeted" the next time you run.

Ken Melhman, the "leader" of their Party, is responsible for the repetition of the most egregiously false "spin" ever heard on the airwaves. He says the most outrageous, false, and (sometimes, imo) libelous things about us and the Democratic Party ever heard in the media. Does his Party come out and attack him for being too rough? Do you think there's a Freeper Board where they are discussing what he needs to "tone down"? Do you think they ever wonder if his attack-attack-attack style will be the down-fall of their Party? If you said, "No, no, and NO", you are absolutely correct. So, with all due respect... get off Howard Dean's back! I can't tell you how refreshing it is to hear a Democrat saying anything the least bit gutsy, fercryingoutloud! Give the guy a break and let him loose!

Then there is this business of attacking other Democrats because you support another candidate or viewpoint. I dislike, with the intensity of a thousand suns, several "leaders" in the Democratic Party. I feel they have sold out to corporate interests, sacrificed their integrity, or hidden behind a record of no-show votes; They have disingenuously moved to the Right; They have never disavowed their Iraq votes, even in light of no WMD found, or proof like the DSM -- all for the cynical sake of their own "viability". They have voted against laws to protect our right to declare bankruptcy. They have voted to give the neo-cons the right to drill for oil in the arctic. They are making noises about nuancing their views on Choice. They vote with Bush, and speak against fellow Democrats. I am sick of it and them. But, most of the time, I manage to refrain from going after them by name here, because we are always going to lose as long as we are as fractured as we are now. One of these losers could end up being our candidate in 2008 (and, if the past is any indication, will be. I don't see us as having learned the lessons of 2004 yet, but there is still time... so we could actually end up nominating a winner yet.)

Wes Clark has not only spoken about backing up his fellow candidates, but has actually done just that on several occasions already. And yet, when he does exactly what he says he'll do and goes right into the den of the enemy to deliver OUR message to the sheeple who know no other news source exists, he is savaged. Are you all barking-at-the-moon crazy, or are you just so invested in your own candidate's "viability" that you cannot acknowlege that, even if you disagree with the move, it is a damned gutsy one to make? Why can't you just give credit where credit is due? Wes tells the truth, and he has the guts it takes to say it right to their faces. What is so wrong about that??????

I am begging each of you to consider what the Democratic Party has become, and if you don't like what you see, start to change it now. If you want guts, leadership, truth, justice, and don't want to be ashamed every time you hear a Democrat open their mouth and try to equivocate and nuance every position into Silly Putty, please support those who deliver the goods! Support the truth-tellers. Support the defenders. Support those Democrats who give a voice to true Democratic (capital D) principles and ideals. And, support those who do all those things without apology, nuance, or one thought of their own "viability". They are now, and will be in the future the salvation of this Party. And, if you can't say something positive about one of them, at least don't make it a pointless pot-shot just for the sake of your own self-interest, will you?

I say this all the time, and will repeat it here: We cannot govern if cannot win. Add to that, we cannot win unless we get up off our knees, and go for the groin more times than not. Support those who will do that unapologetically.

Please.

TC

[bunkerbuster1]

1. Great rant. Nominated!

[Captain Hilts]

2. One doesn't need male genitalia to have moral fortitude

But, yes, I agree with you. The Dems in politics and in the press are too often spineless wimps that just roll over after the first conservative punch. The presidential press conferences are a joke.

And I also support Clark.

[lukasahero]

3. Welcome to DU!

And good points all around. :hi:

[Sparkly]

5. "Brass Ovaries" is a term I like. n/t

[FrenchieCat]

13. Hey!

I got some of those!

Pretty damn "handy", I might add.

[Rene]

15. How about a Wes Clark/John Edwards ticket in 2008??

[Captain Hilts]

23. Clark - Richardson (nt)

[Totally Committed]

50. Thanks, Mookie, and...

welcome to DU!

TC

[Sparkly]

4. Good points, TC!!

:thumbsup:

[Burried News]

6. Both parties are afraid of the masses -they have seen the enemy

And it is us.

[omega minimo]

7. I got yer balls right here

BTW; how is this imagery consistent with the point you are trying to make?

"We cannot win unless we get up off our knees, and go for the groin more times than not. Support those who will do that unapologetically."

That shit loses eyeballs and segregates the support. As a final line to an eloquent and passionate appeal, why degrade your own words?


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Future of Iraq Should be decided by Iraqis
06/05/2005 Bill Moyer
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[Adelante]

8. Thanks, TC

Very well said :yourock:

[geniph]

9. It's backbone all the way for me

and, while I believe the Republicans have shown the correct path by following Reagan's 11th Commandment (thou shalt speak no ill of any fellow Republican), I do believe there are still ways to promote the Democrats who show backbone while delivering an implicit spank to the jellyfish. The Backbone Campaign is doing a fine job of that. The rest of us need to get behind widespread praise of those who show a little spine and not those who buckle under pressure.

[Dr Fate]

10. Swing-voters dont like gutsy, blunt, spirited, agressive fighters.

Or so say the DEM "strategists" who lost the last 3 election cycles and who advise us to be "cautious" concerning the DSM or anything else.

[Totally Committed]

11. I knew a bunch of "swing voters" during the primaries...

who were ready to vote for Clark just based on his "gutsiness and his stances on the issues (which were far to the Left, if you ask me).

So, based on just my experience, I repsectfully disagree.

But, thanks for the reply.

TC

[Dr Fate]

12. NOOOOOO- swing voters like "positive, nice guys"

...who let their opponents define them and the issues.

Negative, swift-boat style attacks DONT WORK- you have to play nice, apologize when necessary- and NEVER EVER EVER call your opponent a "liar" when they lie.

Sure, it didn't work in the last 3 election cycles, but as they say, four times is the charm!!!!

[Texas_Kat]

43. Here's a sarcasm smiley for Dr. Fate's post

Just in case :hi:

:sarcasm:

[tavalon]

31. He forgot the sarcasm smiley

Look at his response from that angle.

[FrenchieCat]

14. Yep, unfortunately....Dr. Fate, your assessment is correct

The Democratic motto is -- safe AND then 'Sorry'!

Didn't work and won't work....cause "Safe" is defined based on what the media tells us is safe. Even for 2008, the "safe" candidates are the 1992 redux ones or the great "centrists".

I beg to differ.

[Greyhound]

16. Great post! More Capital D Democrats should...

read and take to heart your excellent points. I was monumentally disappointed by the DNC's selection of Kerry (of course I held my nose and voted for him anyway). I hope they'll realize that the current crop of 'pery players can't, I'll repeat that for those speed readers, can't, CANNOT, as in will never, win.

[ClarkUSA]

17. Heads-up DUers!!!

Best rant of the WEEK right here, folks. :applause:

Damn true, too! :applause:

WTF is wrong with some of the Clarkbashers here? Still fighting and holding grudges from those 2003 primary wars, I guess. :eyes:

[LandOLincoln]

18. Absolutely wonderful. You tell 'em, TC...

...and miracle of miracles, you spelled cojones right too!

Definitely nominated.

[Totally Committed]

19. When you admire something...

you learn to spell it! LOL!

Cojones, cojones, cojones!!!

Team Cojones: Clark, Boxer, Conyers and Dean!

I salute them all.

TC

[sunnystarr]

20. Clark has improved greatly in public appearances and

I would support him above the other obvious sellouts. You mentioned Mario Cuomo ... I haven't heard much of anything about him lately and I do so love that man. I really wish throw in his hat. How about a Clark/Cuomo ticket?

[Totally Committed]

22. Clark/Cuomo?

Be still, my heart!

TC

[Rene]

27. How about a Wes Clark/Barbara Boxer ticket in 2006 ???

[Boo Boo]

21. Get some Balls!!!

:7

[Eloriel]

24. Lately Howard Dean? No, ALWAYS Howard Dean

Maybe you weren't paying attention, tho.

:evilgrin:

[ClarkUSA]

42. Read TC's whole sentence in context - it may make more sense to you then

<<Backbone.... Whatever you call it, it's what I expect from a leader. It's what I look for first. I'll save you the search, and tell you up front, it's why I support Wes Clark (which, in and of itself, is not what this post is about.)

But, it's also why I support others in the Democratic Party, too: Barbara Boxer, John Conyers (the Congressional Black Congress, almost en masse, actually), Mario Cuomo, Barney Frank, Ted Kennedy, and lately, Howard Dean.>>
...........

And what about that great message TC is trying to SEND TO THE CLARKBASHERS
here at DU, hmmm, Eloriel?

Wes Clark has not only spoken about backing up his fellow candidates, but has actually done just that on several occasions already. And yet, when he does exactly what he says he'll do and goes right into the den of the enemy to deliver OUR message to the sheeple who know no other news source exists, he is savaged. Are you all barking-at-the-moon crazy, or are you just so invested in your own candidate's "viability" that you cannot acknowlege that, even if you disagree with the move, it is a damned gutsy one to make? Why can't you just give credit where credit is due? Wes tells the truth, and he has the guts it takes to say it right to their faces. What is so wrong about that?????? :wtf:

[Eloriel]

51. You miss the key ingredient

First of all, I don't recall having done any Clark bashing (aka: criticizing) in quite a long while. So your aiming this little rant at me personally is a little questionable to start with.

Nor, though, have I piled on with accolades. And there's a reason for that, and you haven't touched on it:


And what about that great message TC is trying to SEND TO THE CLARKBASHERS here at DU, hmmm, Eloriel?

Wes Clark has not only spoken about backing up his fellow candidates, but has actually done just that on several occasions already. And yet, when he does exactly what he says he'll do and goes right into the den of the enemy to deliver OUR message to the sheeple who know no other news source exists, he is savaged.

Well, I don't even know what you're talking about there. Were some DUers "savaging" him because he went on Fox? Well, take it up with them. I didn't think it was especially great news myself but wasn't involved in any of those discussions. Most of the other "Dems" -- and I use quotes for a reason -- such as Susan Estrich have either been essentially neutered or perhaps were never great Dems to start with. Will that happen to him? I have to tell you, I caught part of him on the other night and was NOT impressed. It was about the war and he wasn't great, or anywhere near it. You may not like my opinion, but I found him VERY disappointing and not at all helpful to our cause.

Are you all barking-at-the-moon crazy, or are you just so invested in your own candidate's "viability" that you cannot acknowlege that, even if you disagree with the move, it is a damned gutsy one to make?

Okay: YES, it's gutsy. But so what? What are his motives? What's in it for him? That was questionable to me from the get-go, but after the segment I saw -- well, I don't even care, frankly.

The thing you're really missing is that my objections and problems with Wes Clark ARE NOT AND NEVER HAVE BEEN about Howard Dean. I dislike him quite independently of whether there even is a Howard Dean.

Why can't you just give credit where credit is due? Wes tells the truth, and he has the guts it takes to say it right to their faces. What is so wrong about that??????

I don't see anything wrong with that at all, and haven't been involved in those discussions. HOWEVER, since you asked, I'll tell you that if he can't do better than he did the other night, then IMO he's useless at best. If YOU think he's wonderful and it's great he's on Fox, okay. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But don't expect me to agree with it.

[Totally Committed]

52. Eloriel...

I don't know why you took this so personally. I don't understand it, really. I don't know you at all, and didn't even have you in mind, at least by name, when I wrote this.

Please just take it for what it was: I started writing a post, and went on automatic pilot... it sort of wrote itself. It is a rant, for sure, but wasn't intended to be that.

It is my pinion. It is my request. It is my challenge. It is not about you at all.

You said: "If YOU think he's wonderful and it's great he's on Fox, okay. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But don't expect me to agree with it."

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't give a flying fig if you agree with me or not. This post was my pinion. It was my request to Democrats. It was my challenge to Democrats. It was not about you at all. You are free to agree or disagree as you see fit.

What I don't like, and what I wish would stop is the gratuitous bashing and pissiness and ill will that is supposed to pass for "telling it like it is". As I said... there are Democrats I really don't like. I try and refrain from bashing them, even on the days when there are all these glowing threads that border on delusion floating around. I just wish others would try it more. I don't think any of us can make it 100%, and I don't expect it, but if there were just a bit more open-heartedness here it could be a more pleasant and rpductive place to post and inform.

That's all.

TC

[ClarkUSA]

54. "I don't recall" - I'll have to remember that, thanks!

I seem to recall a recently locked thread... oh well, nevermind. :)

<<<I dislike him quite independently of whether there even is a Howard Dean... HOWEVER, since you asked, I'll tell you that if he can't do better than he did the other night, then IMO he's useless at best.>>>

I didn't really ask but thanks for sharing. :eyes:

<<<What are his motives? What's in it for him? That was questionable to me from the get-go...>>>

I'd say his motives are the same as other good Democrats such as John Conyers, Barbara Boxer, Howard Dean, John Edwards, John Kerry, Russ Feingold and Dennis Kucinich: Wes Clark is a committed liberal Democrat trying to get the truth out to the American public to an audience that needs to hear it and he is going to defend all Democrats against any GOP-bashing during his watch on Fox. He has always told his grassroots supporters that we need to stop preaching to the choir and to reach out to voters everywhere who desperately need to hear from us what is really going on with the Bush Administration. Well, the Fox audience has heard more truth since last Thursday than they have for years and unlike you, I do not think getting the truth out about what's really happening on the ground in Iraq is "useless".

Wes Clark is working on reaching out to an audience who may very well change their views on Bush enough to bring the Democratic Party some important crossover votes in time for the 2006 elections. I'm very happy that Wes Clark defends Democrats like Dean and Durbin and is going to continue speaking Truth To Power at Fox News.

I am truly sorry that you and some others continue to clearly dislike such a hardworking tough Democrat as Wes Clark but if it's one thing I've learned during my time at DU, it's that some People Never Change.

Nonetheless, I am glad you are on our side of the political aisle, Eloriel. You are a dedicated, passionate Democrat and I appreciate that very much.

:hi:

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. Call 'em NADS (for gonads) - everybody can have those!

And according to a professor acquaintance, the term is in common use on university campuses. It gets around the male=strong, female=weak language problem and has a feisty sound to it:

Get some NADS, Democrats!

:woohoo:

[Captain Hilts]

32. Good one Nw/oHope! Thanks! (nt)

[Nothing Without Hope]

35. YVW, Mookie - and welcome to DU! n/t

[ClarkUSA]

39. Welcome to DU, MookieWilson!

:hi:

I watched that amazing game live when I was a kid, btw, and went to some games that year at Shea.

[Captain Hilts]

45. I worked at the Mets AAA ballpark when he was a minor leaguer

and I was in Toronto when he was traded up there. He was in the country less than a month before he was on the cover of McLean's Magazine. Amazin'!

The irony is the Red Sox are my American League team...

I'm enjoying Democratic Underground very much. Thanks to all who have been so welcoming.

[ClarkUSA]

55. Red Sox? LOL! You're a real baseball fan, then.

I remember when Mookie went up to Toronto but vaguely. I was sorry to see him go. Glad to hear he was treated right. I've always wanted to see a game in Toronto. I've heard the fans are really jazzed about their Blue Jays.

Glad you're here. Good new DU members are to be celebrated. :party:

[DemInTX]

26. Boy, Howdy, it's good to have ya back!

I've copied this to read over and over. It really makes me smile.

Thanks, TC. You HAVE got starch, I must say ;)

Anita

[FrenchieCat]

30. Welcome DemInTX

Starch is to be gotten.....and asses are to be kicked!

Ya know what I mean?

:hi:

[ClarkUSA]

40. Welcome to DU, Anita!

:hi:

[Totally Committed]

41. Thanks so much!

And, welcome here, Anita!

TC

[DemInTX]

53. Ohhh....

I've been here awhile....it's just taken your "rant" to get me to post ;)

So far, I'm still unable to rate posts, so consider your post rated up one more time.

[wiggs]

28. Amen

The deck is stacked against us and we have leaders who still want to play poker. Are they dense? Do they like punishment? Or are they happy with the way things are with wealth and power being concentrated in fewer and fewer hands?

Cuomo's great.

Clark/Cuomo

Clark/Conyers

Clark/Obama

[elshiva]

29. Backbone!

[demokatgurrl]

33. The biggest "pair" is on that lady whose picture you have there n/t

[Totally Committed]

37. I admire 'em no matter on whome they are found...

The Democrats have few enough working sets as it is.

Clark, Boxer, Conyers, Cuomo, and Dean.... whatever you call it, they've got it.

TC

[tenshi816]

34. Well put. Very well put.

Plus you're absolutely right. We need more Democratic leaders who aren't afraid to call bullshit when they see it.

[Mass]

36. Great rant and great man

Congratulation for a totally positive post supporting your man.

Clark is absolutely outstanding.

[Ishoutandscream2]

38. Half of my dream has been realized

Dean as the DNC chair - fantastic. And Clark as the Democratic nominee and winner of the presidency in 2008. Yes!!!!!!!!

[Skwmom]

44. I agree with most of your post

except for one thing. The Republicans use the media (and other means) to push who they'd like to see as the Democratic nominee (a couple in particular come to mind). To remain silent on why these individuals would be lousy nominees would help deliver the Whitehouse to the Republicans once again. Furthermore, if the Democratic party keeps running people that the other side can easily portray as phony self-serving,
"without any core beliefs" politicians the Democratic party will continue to loose. To remain silent while this occurs is not an option in my book.

On edit: I do think the Democratic elected officials should handle their own disagreements behind closed doors instead of publicly attacking their own.

You state "One of these losers could end up being our candidate in 2008 (and, if the past is any indication, will be). IMO discouraging any criticism of these "losers" will help guarantee that they are the nominee in the primary and another Democratic loser in the general election).

[Totally Committed]

47. I thought about that...

I did say I TRIED to steer clear of bad-mouthing other Dems, but anyone who posts with me for any length of time knows I never make it to 100%. I admitted openly my absolute disdain for a few of our "leaders". Some just drive me over the edge, and sometimes for the very reason you just gave.

And, posting here is dangerous for me, too. Some days it is an exercize in self-control. I see the "Pro-So and so" threads, and I want to just go in and set the place on fire. But, we have to have some discipline if we are ever to win again. We cannot go into the next election cycle as splintered as the last time.

So, I hear ya, and I understand. I get apesh*t when the RW controlled media (and that's what is IS now...) tells us who our "candidates" are, or should be, or will be. The Democratic Party did its best to disenfranchise me last election... I will vote for MY candidate this time whether or not his name is on the ballot and I don't give a rat's ass who knows it.

TC

[Skwmom]

48. A unified party who delivers a crappy nominee is still a losing party in

the general election. Plus, I can't imagine the Democrats being anymore unified than in an ABB (anybody but Bush) election. The Democrats will not have the ABB vote to rely upon in 08 so they'd better deliver up a STRONG candidate if they want to have any chance of winning in 08 (and that candidate will not be strong if the Republicans or the idiotic Democratic leadership pick the Democratic nominee).

[Totally Committed]

49. I agree.

I know what you're saying, honestly.

And, it's true, we cannot win if we have another candidate who is chosen by the media shoved down our throats.

But, wouldn't it be great to have a unified Democratic Party -- unified around a candidate that can actually WIN, and govern fearlessly? It is my dream...

TC

[windbreeze]

46. Thank you TC..

No one says it quite like you...much appreciated..
windbreeze