Dean-Kerry email exchange

[Feanorcurufinwe]

here's an email I received from someone who got my address off the Kerry blog:

I just wanted you to know that I grew up in Montana.
I saw your post on the Kerry site and wanted you to know that I moved to Vermont three years ago, I used to work in warehouses in montana. But here in Vermont I'm in College and on my way to a PhD in Physics.
I've met Howard Dean while at work one day. He just walked in like it was no big thing.
I had only justed moved here and actually had no idea who he was. He was a really great guy
not pompus or nutty like the media tries to portray him. I've been with the Dean campaign for nearly two years now. Following and researching.
I just wanted you to know. Maybe becuase we come from the same place. I don't know.
I just see all these people falling in line behind Kerry and my gut tells me he's a fake.
I've been face to face with Dr. Dean and I can tell you he's the real deal.
I'm not trying to change your mind. I just want to know why so many people think you can change washington by hiring a washington politician.
If Nader runs where do you think the Deanies will go? A split vote, Bush wins.
I've asked other die hard deanies and they agree they probably won't vote without Dean.

sorry if this was a bother
*** in VT

and my answer:

I just want to tell you how I became a supporter of Senator Kerry's. It was in the early 90s and I was a bit of a CSPAN junkie. Kerry was giving a speech on the Senate floor. I'm not going to say what the topic was, because I don't want to provide ammo that can be used against him -- because the upshot is, not only did I agree with the Senator 100%, not only did I feel like for the first time in my life a politician was really speaking for, fighting for, and representing ME -- but what Kerry said was the most politically incorrect thing I'd ever heard in my life. I couldn't believe I was hearing a politician speak the truth, so passionately, and with such obvious disregard for political expediency. That must be a decade ago and I vividly remember thinking "wouldn't it be great if somebody like that became President". So I started listening very closely to what Kerry said. I started paying attention to his views and how he presented them. And a decade of scrutiny has only convinced me more that he can and will be a great President.
I hesitate to discuss Dr. Dean, but since you bring him up, I will tell you I was interested, like everyone, when he gained fame, and I hoped he would at least be a credible candidate if Kerry faltered. But then I learned about Dean's views on due process, his underfunding of the public defenders office, his spotty environmental record, his self-contradictory states rights arguments, his fights with Democrats in his state legislature over budgets -- and all of that was before his series of misteps, mis-statements and missed opportunites to show gravitas on the campaign trail. I talked to my brother, who has lived in east-central Vermont since the 70s, and who has been a Republican all that time. And although he never voted for him, he confirmed Dean to be pretty conservative and not far off from the Republican viewpoint on a lot of issues. "Those liberals who want to elect Dean are going to be disappointed" is how he put it. So long before Dean proved he doesn't have what it takes to win the nomination, let alone go all the way in November, I decided Dean was about the worst case scenario for the Democrats possible.
Democrats are still the majority party, and we can beat Bush in November! Did you see the new Newsweek poll that shows Kerry topping Bush 49% - 46% ? http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040124/nysa010a_1.html

If you decide not to vote against Bush in November, well, that is your choice to make. I'm confident we will win, and I hope it will be with you rather than without you.

GO DEMS in 2004!

He hasn't written back.

[Cocoa]

1. I liked your email better than his

:-)

[Ninga]

4. How did you "learn" about Dean's views and

voting record? All of which, by the way is public record, and most of which you have critically edited and misconstruded.

Careful out there.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. By educating myself -- a process I would recommend for anyone

http://www.vtce.org/deancrisisagvt.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A1907-2003Jul2
http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs08292003.html
http://www.vpirg.org/campaigns/financeReform/cfr_page111.html
http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/Story/33681.html
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/09/13/dean_backed_medicare_cuts_in_1995_gephardt_says_boston_globe http://rutlandherald.com/Archive/Articles/Article/31792
http://www.counterpunch.org/colby02222003.html
http://timesargus.nybor.com/Legislature/Story/43125.html
http://rutlandherald.nybor.com/News/Story/31711.html
http://www.vtce.org/deanoncoal.html
http://rutlandherald.com/Archive/Articles/Article/23587
http://slate.msn.com/id/2086804/
http://www.socialsecurity.org/dailys/07-02-03.html
http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030526&s=farrell
http://www.progress.org/2003/sol125.htm
http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/release.php?release=491
http://www.bradycampaign.org/press/release.php?release=518
http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jul98/deanoped.htm
http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/jan2000/news_scyes.htm

(When Dean became governor) they (liberal Democrats) were all thinking, oh we got a Democrat back in the governor's office. And all of the sudden they find Howard Dean's worse on spending (than Snelling). The state was headed into a recession at the time. And Snelling before he died, he and Ralph Wright cut a deal on raising the income taxes and (inaud.) the deficit--a few years of austerity. Howard stuck with the plan. And as Dick McCormack (Democratic Senator from Windsor) will tell you of the meeting where he (Dean) met with the Democratic Caucus and told them then, and this might have been before, when he was still lieutenant governor, and told the Democratic Senators, you're never going to win because people don't trust you with their money. None of your great and lofty goals and plans and aspirations will ever be achieved because people don't trust Democrats with their money. We got to prove it to 'em. And that was key. I mean his political enemies for the first three terms were Democrats at the State House, not Republicans. Republicans loved his budgets.
--Peter Freyne, veteran Vermont political reporter
http://www.gwu.edu/~action/2004/dean/dean0702/freyneint.html

By the way, your claim that all of Dean's records are public is not only false, it is well known to be false. I don't think it will help your credibility to repeat it again:

In the course of negotiating an unprecedented 10-year period for keeping his official papers confidential, former Vermont governor Howard Dean through his legal counsel explored the possibility of making the privacy period contingent on whether he was running for president, according to newly released documents.

Discussions between the counsel and the state archivist about a potentially longer sealing period centered around the possibility that a future political opponent of Dean's might seize on a document and use it as ammunition, according to the correspondence.

State archivist Gregory Sanford noted that in the talks a primary concern was "the `Willie Horton' example," referring to the furloughed Massachusetts prisoner whose crimes surfaced as an issue in the 1988 contest between Vice President George H.W. Bush and Michael S. Dukakis.

A seal longer than 10 years would have significantly eclipsed periods sought by previous Vermont governors, who traditionally received six-year seals for their official papers.

Dean, who left the governor's office in January 2003 and is now seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, agreed in the end to a decade-long seal -- with no extension -- for nearly half of his official correspondence, meaning the documents will be available for public viewing in 2013. Shortly before he left office, Dean told Vermont Public Radio, "Well, there are future political considerations. We didn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor."

In an interview with the Globe in July, he said in response to a request that he waive the seal, "No, it's sealed for a reason."
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2003/10/09/dean_feared_a_horton_scenario

[Darth_Ole]

6. Of course you did. You're a Kerry supporter, Cocoa.

Kerry's certainly no fake. But to try to make it out that Dean is some closet right winger with a not-so-good record as Governor is false.

He balanced the budget every single year he was governor, in 2001 Vermont's unemployment rate was 3.7% (the national average was around 6%), 99% of children in Vermont are eligible for health care 96% have it. Lastly, he signed the very important Civil Unions Bill. I think it would be better if it had made gay marriage legal, but it was a start.

The notion that Dean is come closet Republican who just likes to yell is wrong. Dean has a great record and he's finally a Democrat who is passionate about taking back the country.

Edited for spelling.

[Cocoa]

9. his record in VT seems to be excellent

and I've never considered him a closet right-winger, and I don't think that's what the pro-Kerry email is saying, I think it's more pro-Kerry than anti-Dean.

And I've only been a Kerry supporter since Gephardt dropped out. I'm actually surprised I haven't switched to Kucinich, but since Kerry won Iowa I'm really enthusiastic about him.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

2. As a Dean supporter, I'll write back

I am concerned by Kerry's lack of legislative leadership in the Senate, and his lack of executive experience, which I think will be a big plus for the next President,who we all know will have a tough row to hoe with a Republican or divided Congress. I prefer Dean's health care plan and really like the fact that he has balanced a budget.

All that aside, there is no way I'm voting anything but Democrat this fall, no matter who the candidate is. If it turns out that Kerry is the nominee, I'll be looking to Kerry supporters to give the rest of us talking points to counter anything the Shrub and his minions toss his way. I will not only be voting, but actively working for the Democratic nominee, so this information will be vital for use with my local political group, Save Democracy.

That being said, Dr. Dean has stated again and again that he, too, will support the nominee and will ask his followers to do the same. Sorry this fellow who wrote you doesn't feel that he should take the doctor's advice.

[vi5]

3. I'm so sick of hearing these veiled threats....

"Non transferable votes...."
"Where do you think those voters will go...."

Or any variation on these themes. If people want to play games with the future of this country and pretend it's some schoolyard game to be toyed with and pouted over, then I ultimately have no more respect for that person than I do for some uninformed voter who pulls the lever for bush because he's "good christian".

At this point if people don't know what the stakes are and look at it pragmatically and realistically then I just cannot expend precious time and energy catering to their whims. I already have an infant at home that requires coddling and catering to, and there are too many reasonable, independent swing voters that I will have to work on to convince to vote for the democratic nominee who will A)be more likely to be persuaded, and B)won't ask that I capitulate to them and make them feel all warm and fuzzy.

I'm voting for the democratic nominee be it Dean or Kerry or Clark or Edwards or whoever. And I know there are supporters of all of these candidates who will do the same. I will choose to work with these people rather than the ones who feel it is their right to dictate to me how to be a liberal and what I should care about.

[cjbuchanan]

5. I've asked you this many times in the past, but you still will not answer

I have seen your post about this mystery speech given in the early 90's many times before and every time I am forced to ask, why will you not just say what he talked about? You say you do not want to give ammunition, but don't you think that if Kerry becomes the nominee, Bush & Co will have this speech? Is it not better to get this out now instead of when it is too late? Also, it seems odd to me for you to say I support this person because of this and so should you, but I will not tell you what this is.

I want to stress that I am still undecided, so this has nothing to do with Dean, I just do not understand your thinking. If a candidate has something in his past, especially something that was broadcast nationally, that could "...provide ammo that could be used against him..." I want to know what it is. The fact that you will not tell me actually makes me less likely to support Kerry. If this is as un-P.C. as you are suggesting, I don't want Kerry to be hit with it at the end of October, I want him to deal with it now.

I am glad that you have found your perfect candidate, but we need to make sure our nominee has as few surprises as possible during the general election. Bush & Co. are going to do everything they can to make this election about anything but issues, we do not need to make their job easier.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

11. If the Bush campaign

or other campaigns, wants to find politically incorrect statements of Kerry's to take out of context and use against him, they will have to do it without my help.

If I met you in real life and were able to judge who you were with my eyes and ears, I would not be so circumspect. The fact is, that is how I became a Kerry supporter. Whether or not it is persuasive to anyone doesn't change that fact. One reason I brought it up to this Dean supporter in this email was to show that I didn't simply choose to support him based on one chance encounter or a vague impression - rather Kerry inspired me, and ten years of reflection and examination have only strengthened my initial impression.

What I found most amazing about this is the simple fact that this Dean supporter wrote me at all -- I mean if you were to look at the blog messages from which he extracted my email, it would be clear that I am a committed Kerry supporter -- why is he writing me? I don't email Dean supporters -- I send emails to undecided voters! lol

[patricia92243]

7. I'm a Dean supporter and I've gotton all kinds of mail from the Clark

campaign - no big deal.

[JNelson6563]

10. hell you should see my DU in-box

that is where supporters from various campaigns privately write what they'd get banned for posting.

Lots of ugly freudian slips too, the unintentional kind. I've got some fun quotes to drag out in the GE.

:toast:

Julie

[Feanorcurufinwe]

12. Well you should report that to the admins

people aren't supposed to use the IM feature to skirt the rules.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Kerry sold us out with his IWR vote. I agree with the writer.

Where will the Dean vote go if Kerry (or, Edwards) gets the nomination? This one will go Green without a backward glance.