Not enough votes in Senate for flag amendment; Biden, Hillary to oppose

[wyldwolf]

WASHINGTON (AP) - A constitutional amendment to outlaw flag burning cleared the House Wednesday but faced an uphill battle in the Senate. An informal survey by The Associated Press suggested the measure doesn't have enough Senate votes to pass.

...an AP survey Wednesday found 35 senators on record as opposing the amendment - one more than the number needed to defeat it if all 100 senators vote, barring a change in position.

Late Wednesday, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, D-N.Y., revealed that she would vote against the measure. "I don't believe a constitutional amendment is the answer," Clinton, a possible presidential candidate in 2008, said in a statement.

Critics accused the amendment's supporters of exploiting the attacks to trample the right to free speech.

Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., a likely presidential candidate, has said he would oppose the amendment.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050622/D8ASURE81.html

[HockeyMom]

1. They sure like Constitutional Amendments, don't they?

What is this now #3 or #4?

[teach1st]

2. They like 'em only if...

...the amendment limits rights.

[DanCa]

3. Flag Displays on fourth of July

This independence day take a quick look around at the grocery store and notice how many improper displays of the flag there are. And than they worry about this. I would just love to see them go after the gop war mongers at my gym when the workout out with the flag on thier chest and get it all desecrated by sweat. Hah Gop patriotism gotta love the hypocrisy.

[mike_c]

4. not the answer to what?-- I mean, what's the problem...?

What IS it with republicans and their democratic enablers in House? The repigs are openly fascist now, even to the extent of attempting to provide constitutional protections to a symbol of nationalism.

[aion]

5. Venerating the flag is ridiculous. Even Bush must agree?

[Raiden]

6. I can't believe both Clinton and Biden are with us on this!

Woohoo! They're actually voting for First Amendment freedoms

[orleans]

10. and biden always--at least since january and except on

the bolton deal, is always voting the the repukies

[Raiden]

12. That's the beauty of the DLC...

:sarcasm:

[wyldwolf]

31. of course, Biden isn't DLC

[paulk]

13. this isn't the first time Biden has opposed

a flag burning amendment.

[DURHAM D]

7. Wow, can't believe both of them got a poll in the field that

quickly - must be costly.

[IDemo]

8. I believe there were two distinct reasons behind this bill:

1) To further relegate the notion of free speech to the compost bin,

2) To draw out dissent from Hillary and any other potential '08 Dem candidates. Having accomplished this already, the Karl-Rovists will have ammunition to attack Hillary and any others who dare to dissent on this bill as 'anti-American', even though a nay vote represents the strongest belief in true American ideals.

[paulk]

9. it also serves as a distraction

from the real problems bush has created...

when the poll numbers get low - drag out the flag amendment, bash gays, etc..

repeat as necessary.

[Catchawave]

11. I get it !

If any '06 OR '08 Dems oppose the bill, then that means they "support desecrating the flag". Simple Rovian math, eh?

[Telly Savalas]

14. Regarding reason 2, bring it on.

The only people that fall for this stupid bullshit are dildos who'd vote for the GOP anyway. Democrats can stand up and say "our nation faces serious problems, but Republicans are too cowardly to deal with them. Instead they pander to the lowest common denominator with demagogic idiocy like their little flag amendment. Ignoring free speech issues for a moment, how big an issue is flagburning? Show of hands: how many of you have witnessed someone burning a flag in the last decade? Zero. I rest my goddamn case. The GOP cowards run away from real issues and hide in their little world of make-believe."

[Carla in Ca]

17. Your second point is right on the money.

It is to get those fliers and ads ready if one of them does run.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. Of course

And since there are enough people out there ignorant about flag descrition they would fall for it hook, line and sinker and vote for the republican just because they were for this stupid bill.

[OneBlueSky]

15. this is exactly what's happened to this amendment every time . . .

it's been introduced since at least 1970, and probably longer . . . it passes the House, the Senate rejects it, case closed . . . except they keep coming back, and back, and back, and back . . . .

[alphafemale]

30. Maybe a "Three Strikes and Your Out" cap on proposed amendments?

This is a stupid idea....

And I'll have to refresh on countries that have similar laws.
(Flag burning illegal)

I think there are only three, and they are very totalitarian.

[FreedomAngel82]

16. This is the most ridiculous thing

[IndianaGreen]

18. What's Kerry position on this? Anyone, anyone?

If a neolib Cold Warrior like Biden, and our wonderful Hillary, can oppose this travesty, who will stand with the GOP other than the puke Evan Bayh?

[Rainscents]

21. I am 100% sure, he oppose! Kerry believes in true democracy!

[Mass]

32. Kerry has opposed this amendment for years

and voted against it in 2000.

During the campaign, he said again he opposed it, and AP and the Boston Herald (I hate to quote them), both say he is opposed to it.

[Mass]

33. No surprise for Biden

I guess no surprise for Clinton either, but she has never voted on the issue, so I guess we never know.

Because people do not agree with somebody on one issue does not mean they are wrong on all.

(OTH, does anybody know while Jim McGovern (D-MA) voted for the amendment. I was a little bit surprised by that).

[Rainscents]

19. Republicans has nothing to offer to people, so this is what they do and

try to use against opposition... This shit ain't going to work anymore as people are so sick and tired of their bullshit lies!

[Crunchy Frog]

20. Good for both of them.

I'm glad they're standing up on this.

[Rainscents]

22. I been told, you can NOT throw flags into garbage, instead, you are

suppose to burn them... Am I wrong on this?

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Nope you're not

That's how you're supposed to get rid of a flag. The flag is also not supposed to touch the ground when hanged up and you're not supposed to write on it like our fearless leader did once at a rally (picture is above). You're also not supposed to have tshirts, stuffed animals, hats, bandanas, etc. as a flag. That's a big no-no too.

[Rainscents]

26. Thank you for clearfying...

[ProudDad]

23. I love it

Clinton, "I don't believe a constitutional amendment is the answer"

ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ISN'T A PROBLEM in the first place!

[TheWebHead]

27. Save the American flag napkin market!

or better yet, the entire flag party kit...

http://store1.yimg.com/I/allwrappedup-pps_1816_1266707

The Republicans are being enemies of capitalism ;)

[Bravo411]

28. It's still a close one...

"...35 senators on record as opposing the amendment - one more than the number needed to defeat it if all 100 senators vote..."

They're just one vote away from passing this thing given all the Senators vote. What if they all can't make it back for an emergency session?

Seriously, they passed legislation regarding Schiavo and the President even cut short a vacation to fly back from Texas to sign it, something he wouldn't even do during the Tsunami when hundreds of thousands were killed.

These people have all kinds of trick up their sleeves. I just hope they don't decide to use one.

[baron j]

29. Hypothetically, if they got this passed in the Congress,

and then in the States, how would they enforce this? What exactly is desecration? I thought something had to be sacred to be desecrated? Separation of church and state?

Really, this would only "spark" massive outbreaks of flag burning. And what if I sewed a flag with the wrong number of stars or stripes, and then desecrated it. It's not really the flag, but it sure would upset the brainless...

[Disturbed]

34. Aren't these flags made in Communist China?

Who give a damn about this stupid distraction issue?

[Vinca]

35. I'm flashing forward to 2008 and the next presidential campaign.

Imagine the ads - Hillary/Joe/whatever Dem. candidate "wants to burn the flag," "no respect for the victims of 9/11," "treasonous," etc., etc., etc. I agree with them on this vote, but they'd better be prepared for the Rovian tactics to follow.

[realFedUp]

36. This is such a political ruse...I'm very unhappy that Feinstein

is supporting this ban and amendment to the Bill
of Rights.