Mark Warner: Democratic Prez Candidate Must Buck Party Orthodoxy

[wyldwolf]

Democrats must stop forcing presidential candidates to "check every box in terms of Democratic orthodoxy" if the party is win back the White House, Virginia Gov. Mark Warner told The Associated Press...

... Warner was giving interviews to Iowa reporters and meeting with newspaper editorial boards to talk about how Democrats must reshape their message, and holding out his own status as an example of how the party can broaden its appeal.

"I'm a Democratic governor in a state that's about as red as it gets," said Warner.

In offering a prescription for winning back the White House, Warner argued it's a case of finding ways to appeal to voters and states that are currently being written off...

"My belief is that Democrats as a party, if we continue to only be competitive in 16 states and hope that if everything breaks right we can get to a 17th state and somehow get 270 electoral votes, we do this country a disservice and we do the Democratic Party a disservice," said Warner...

Warner rejected arguments that the solution for Democrats is to energize core voters, saying the party must find a way to expand that base...

Warner said it's ironic that Democrats have lost control of both Congress and the White House and still are fighting to avoid change.

"The Congressional wing of the Democratic Party is kind of the ultimate party of the status quo," said Warner.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000952427

[Oversea Visitor]

1. Aaargh

Leave no state behind should be new cry :)

[wakeme2008]

3. Like Texas... Kerry

did not spend any time there. Maybe he would have lost it anyway but we will never know...

[LynneSin]

2. Suddenly I like this guy as a possible presidental candidate

Although Ed Rendell is still top on my list

[radfringe]

4. when I first heard/saw Warner

during the campaign(s) - I said to my partner "keep an eye on this guy, he could go places, make a real difference."

and the more I see him on C-Span the more I like him

said the same thing about Obama after his speech at the convention - but Obama needs a bit more seasoning before he can make a big move

[Clark2008]

5. Bilderberger.

Why - oh why - must some of the better candidates be wooed by an organization so secrect that its attendees emit the stench of the "paid off?'

Warner was a serious contender in my book until he went off and let a bunch of secretive white men use him. I don't know if any of the conspiracies about this group are true, but the sheer fact that they are so super private makes me want to forbid any of them from entering public service.

[Mairead]

6. Corporatist says only a corporatist can win --- news at 11

No self-interest in a statement like that, no siree. And corporatist Dems have done so well in recent years, too.

[demnan]

7. Hasn't Dean, H. Clinton and just about everyone else

in the party said the same thing?

Here is a true fact. No Democrat who is for gun control is going to make it in the South. I'm willing to concede on that issue.

Mark Warner is a good governor and would make a good President. He would restore some fiscal sanity to the country, keep the abortion and anti-gay nuts at bay, and maybe even improve health care standards.

His strong suit is fiscal management. He is also handsome and personable (which gets the votes) and has a neat outspoken independent wife.

I hope to God there isn't a skeleton somewhere in his closet, because if there is, the hyena Republicans will jump on him and rip him to shreds.

[billbuckhead]

12. Bush said he would sign the AWB and it didn't hurt him

Dems are always trying to back down on something and that makes us look weak. BTW, Bush said he would sign the AWB, didn't hurt him. The real problem is crooked voting machines and voter suppression.

[tritsofme]

21. He said that with his tongue firmly in cheek.

He knew the GOP House would never in a million years vote to renew the AWB, a vote on the issue would have been an amazement.

He said he supported renewing it, but he never put any pressure on the House leadership to move on it.

[derby378]

26. The AWB is dead - now it's time for the burial

It was never about gun control, but people control instead.

[Clark2008]

23. Handsome?

I've heard that before from others.

I realize taste is subjective, but he's got a craggy, long face. I don't see the "handsome" there. Not that it matters - I'm just blowing in the wind.

[Toots]

30. Instead of "gun control" it should just be "Law & Order"

That is what is needed. If people trusted the law they wouldn't feel the need for guns. When the biggest crooks in the world are running our country it is hard to appreciate the "Law". It should be our Mantra though. Democrats are solidly for "Law & Order". I would love very much to see the real crooks get their due.

[FreedomAngel82]

38. I agree

It's also about personal responsibility. If you leave a gun loaded laying around where kids can get to it and something happens then it's your fault and not the gun. I used to be a REALLY big pro-gun control person. I still think there could be some stuff to help but in the end it's about personal responsibility. I remember earlier this year a local news station did a report about gun control and they had this special device that went through the gun and only the owner could know how to take it off to use it. Once this device was inside the gun it had sometype of way of locking it so if a teen or someone got a hold of it they couldn't activate it without taking this device out of it.

[FreedomAngel82]

37. I don't know too much about him

But you do make good points. A lot of rightwingers in the south went against Kerry because they thought he was going to take their guns away and put massive control on them and the Bible etc. I'm willing to give him a chance and check him out even if he has the Bilderberg ties. I just have this feeling he'll be the canidate and the media will back him and get rid of any challengers (like with Dean and Kerry last year). They might not rig our primaries but at least try manipulation. I still wonder why the whole Hillary ordeal. :shrug: But I think this guy will probably be at least in the top three if not the actual canidate since he has Bilderberg backing him up and with Bilderberg comes a lot of support from the media if they're the canidate they want to support (I just have a feeling he will be). But if he can get this country back on the right track with our economy especially and we can get national health care (I think this issue will be a top one in 2008) then I'd even vote for Hillary if she's the nominee.

[reality based]

8. Warner says the problem is that Democrats are acting like Democrats

I say the problem is that they aren't.

[Gin]

9. He is using the same talking points as Dean....I live in Virginia

he has done a good job...against all odds....and would make a good President.

[Donna Zen]

11. Litmus test?

After reading the article, I still couldn't answer the question of how he defines "litmus test." Does that mean being against all "gun control"? Well, Gov. Dean was/is against "gun control" and his position was just fine with a great number of Democrats, myself included. So what does he mean?

No one in their right mind is in favor of "abortion." Yes, we do accept that abortion has been around since centuries and that two things need to be done 1) keep is safe by keeping it legal and 2) reducing unwanted pregnancies. Roe v Wade is about personal privacy and in no way demands that women get an abortion.

Are we environmentalist? In favor of a progressive tax structure? Believe in a safety net? Believe in the protection of everyone's civil rights? Believe that a government should be transparent and honest? Believe that lying to take a country into a war is not in the best interests of our democracy?

I could go on...but why should I? I want to know what this litmus test means, because maybe I have one or maybe I don't.

We do need to broaden the base of the party...absolutely. Warner is from a red state, a DC outsider (to some degree) and thus an interesting candidate. He however lacks the main ingrediant needed to broaden the base: foreign policy and national security credentials. That is definately a problem because while we are trusted on domestic issues--litmus test or no litmus test--we are seen as a "weak on defense" party.

Vote for me I'm from Virginia is a bit of a litmus test in and of itself.

I find Warner of interest, although I don't find him handsome at all (to whomever made that comment) but as a national candidate, I'm not sure how well he'd do. He does have tons of money and plenty of insider connections and since he's goal is to position himself as the anti-Hillary in the primaries, maybe he'll succeed in his efforts. Could be worse.

[FreedomAngel82]

39. He doesn't have foreign policey because why....

HE'S A GOVERNOR!!! Governor's DON'T have foreign policey thus why it's called FOREIGN. He has local and state wide policey but NOT foreign. Doy! He will have people in the White House who will work with him on those issues and he can learn. Duh! :eyes:

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. When he became president, Bill Clinton had at least had

the experience of living overseas for two years, which, if nothing else, increases one's interest in and awareness of foreign policy. Other Democratic governors: Jimmy Carter had been in the Navy. Roosevelt had been Secretary of the Navy.

Reagan had no foreign policy experience and was the robot mouthpiece of the neocons, the same as Bushboy.

That's the trouble with someone who has no foreign policy experience (or even demonstrated interest in). They're absolute putty in the hands of those who claim to know better.

I suppose from the DLC's point of view, Warner's lack of foreign policy experience is a plus, because the Pentagon shills and "free" trade absolutists will be able to feed him any old line.

[Oversea Visitor]

10. Leave not state behind

Republican party heading toward their biggest trainwreck in history
Sadly same direction US economy going too
What to do same driver
Chimp at wheel shouting "Look no Hand NO HAND and laughing
its hardwork its hardwork
Step on the brake everyone cry
Chimp look around his office under the desk
No WMD
Republican groan gee totally disconnected from reality

[Moderator]

13. wyldwolf

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.


DU Moderator

[LittleClarkie]

14. What is he talking about when he says "orthodoxy"

And is he going to expand one part of the base, only to see another part shrink?

[TayTay]

16. He means the stuff he likes

And he doesn't care about the stuff everyone else likes. The usual.

[ibegurpard]

15. I agree

Although my definition of party orthodoxy would probably differ significantly from Warner's.

[bvar22]

17. WHAAAA???!!!

"Warner said it's ironic that Democrats have lost control of both Congress and the White House and still are fighting to avoid change."


The Democratic Party has changed so much in the last 25 years that it is now totally unrecognizable. This nonsense of having to give up Democratic values is TOTAL BS!!! The Democratic party has been following this DLC bullshit for over 20 years, AND has declined for over 20 years. It is time to confront the Republican-Lites. If they want a CorpoAmerica, join the Republican Party. The RICH CORPORATE OWNERS are ALREADY well represented by the Republican Party. Stop destroying the Democratic party from the inside.

Mark Warner, Governor, VA, ANOTHER proud member of the DLC working to INCREASE the POWER and INFLUENCE of RICH CORPORATE OWNERS in the Democratic Party.

Gun Control, Choice, and GOD are the WEDGE issues that are being HIGHLIGHTED by the CorpoMedia, the Republican Party, and the Republican Wing of the Democratic party.
Keep your EYE on the BALL. The REAL issue is the growing POWER of the RICH CORPORATE OWNERS and the dismantling of protections for LABOR and the Working Class.

The people who OWN the Republican Party and the DLC couldn't care less about who:

*does or doesn't own a gun

*who does or doesn't get an abortion

*who does or doesn't go to which church

The people who own the republican Party, the DLC, and the CorpoMedia are DELIGHTED to have the Partys fight it out on these wedge issues while the separation between the RICH and the Middle Class and POOR widens and LABOR protections are dismantled. THEY win either way.

Don't fall for the misdirection!


The acknowledged GOAL of the DLC, the NEW DEMOCRATS, and the Progressive Policy Institute is the INCREASE the POWER and INFLUENCE of MONEY inside the Democratic Party.

[PATRICK]

18. Can't afford a candidate

who is a bit off the beam on the issue of party identity. He confuses the issue further in real defense of the DLC third way thing to the point of embracing a not too subtle negative stance toward the entire liberal progressive core of America. Like other true believers in the weak force, there are serious things he doesn't get.

But rather than rehash old issues on these corporate candidates it must be noted- as with most if not all Democratic leaders and reps, that none are mentally up to the challenge of confronting the coup, the vast illegality, the attack on the system. I don't think they can reframe issues and personalities on ANY ideological line and expect to succeed.

Yet here is a horse positioning for the post in a rigged race nipping at his friends and fellow victims as if they are the rival and enemy.

One of the worst effects of the questionable oxymoron, the DLC organization, is that is has roped in successful and good politician who alone render the stupid collaboration with America's greatest enemies feasible in appearance only.

Clinton and Blair were Bittlebergers. The Pres. of the Steel workers Union was in 2000. What is obvious is that it is not so much a cult plot but a general attitude of never recognizing or fighting the evils of corporate pirates or flaws in the capitalist system. These are the wrong ideas to prevent constant backsliding into the chaos and depressions of the past, seeing reformers and progressives as more the enemy and recovering fascists as respectable defenders of stability and prosperity. This lunacy will not stand and the few "good" guys conned into this pragmatic elite do not represent the wisest portion of the human race. Maybe otherwise Bill would at least have had the common sense to keep his zipper up.

[spooky3]

19. DUers, Go to his website, then judge for yourself.

http://www.governor.virginia.gov/

I'm also a VA resident who thinks he's done an excellent job under terrible conditions (very RW legislature, huge inherited budget deficit, bad tax structure, massive transportation problems). He hasn't been able to solve all the problems but he's solved some and remains popular.

[JHBowden]

20. Warner is right on the money

There are millions of moderate Republicans and independents out there who will vote for our guy given the right person. Provided we show up, of course.

[FreedomAngel82]

40. I agree

There are some republicans who will vote for democrats. My governor is a moderate democrat who ISN'T on the DLC list (very surprised personally) and a lot of moderates do like him. Some people say that you should worry about that, but why? :shrug: I don't think so. I think it means that they want a change and are willing to try someone else.

[Jim Sagle]

22. Haven't we heard this tune before?

We've done it his way since 1976. Consequently the Pugs own the House, the Senate, the Presidency, the Supreme Court, and the media.

Third Wayism is the disease. Democratic orthodoxy is the cure. No sarcasm whatsoever is intended.

[leyton]

34. Perhaps by "Democratic orthodoxy" he means the failed strategies we use?

I interpreted Warner's comments to mean we should abandon the strategies of the past three decades and return to our progressive roots - go away from the party orthodoxy that has failed and get back to where we came from.

[FrenchieCat]

24. I've been researching Warner....

and can someone explain this stuff I've been reading....since I'm an AA and like Wilder very much? But also want to know about Warner?

"...To this day, Warner and his second, Kaine, are rarely seen in joint personal appearances throughout the state as well as campaign trail.
Matter of fact - Warner makes it a deliberate routine, often making silly little excuses for the distance between him and nice guy Kaine.

Many Richmond natives noted the lack of Democratic cohesiveness during the Kerry campaign.

Lt. Gov. Kaine endorsed Richmond Mayor-elect Doug Wilder, while our governor remained strangely silent. Warner has yet to call Wilder to congratulate him on the election victory...."

"...Then-Richmond Mayor Timothy M. Kaine stunned two veteran state legislators in his first statewide race.

snip

Yes, it rained on Warner's parade!

Feeling spanked on his Democratic gubernatorial nomination night, Warner, who had drained his personal bank account, probably had a temper tantrum that primary evening.

He hurriedly and hastily distanced himself from the other primary ticket nominee that very night of the Democratic primary election in a press conference.

The Blue Dog was simply amazed how the more high-profiled and wealthier Warner treated his fellow Democratic candidates as mere appendages in his statewide campaign for the governor's mansion.

At the trio's first joint press conference, it was more than noticeable to many who described Warner's behavior as downright rude.

But that political move to create separation with Kaine and McEachin only a few hours after the final primary results should have been a red flag to Democrats, as well as Republicans..."

"...The Post's Michael Shearer wrote, "Three years ago, Warner persuaded voters in an overwhelmingly red state to put him in office with a NASCAR-loving, pro-death penalty, pro-gun rights, fiscally conservative campaign."

"Since then, he has backed some restrictions on abortion, signed more than a dozen gun-rights bills, balanced the state's books and persuaded a Republican legislature to help him pass a $1.5 billion tax increase."

Yet conservative Warner continues to seek contributions and assistance on the liberal end of the Democratic campaign trails with pro-choice and gay and lesbian advocacy and activist organizations.

Warner's political actions are proof positive of his untrustworthiness with Democratic core constituents. Warner compromised hot-button social legislation in 2004 by mincing words and performing tomfoolery with the General Assembly, the media and Virginia Democrats.

Warner's lack of vetoed legislation during last year's General Assembly session further proved that he has rather thin political skin with those liberal organizations.

It's a real mystery to the Blue Dog and other political observers exactly why pro-choice and gay and lesbian organizations continue to endear Warner as a like-minded individual...."
http://www.augustafreepress.com/stories/storyReader$29258

It's hard to find a lot of this stuff because older stories go into paid archives. This story gave enough of the back story and also shows the reputation he's getting in VA.


Comments' pick up of kos....
Warner pissed off the whole African-american community in the South with his very public war with Doug Wilder.
The rumors I've heard is that Warner isn't running for Senate in VA because he's infuriated the African-American community in VA so much with his attacks on Wilder that they won't show to vote for him against Allen.
---
FFV - First Families of Virginia... made famous in the song "FFV" from the musical 1776. Guess what else the FFVs are known for... you guessed it. This is typical Southern white elite "blame the **" BS
One of you FFVs was on the blogs for a while trying to claim Wilder didn't endorse Kerry... which was complete and utter rubbish. Wilder endorsed, cut commercials, did appearances for Kerry.

It's the FFVs that have been in tantrum mode about Wilder since he dared suggest he wanted to run for state-wide office. He further infuriated the FFVs by being able to be completely financially independent of them and their "preferred" donor lists. Wilder's campaigns were supported by influential African-Americans from all over the country like BET's Robert Johnson, Oprah Winfrey, and Bill Cosby.

Wilder was the only African-American of the first generation of individuals to advance forward in society due to integration of the Armed Forces to rise to a chief executive position in the US, and the FFVs fought against Wilder every step of the way.
---
Warner refused to congratulate Wilder.
Warner was the one that made himself look thouroughly childish by refusing to campaign for Wilder in Richmond mayor's race or even more ridiculously continued his tantrum by refusing to congratulate Wilder when Wilder won the Richmond mayoral race.
-----
Considering how out of bounds Warner's public tantrum on this was, people with a lick of sense in VA know Warner's story on this mess doesn't add up. Warner's behavior was completely over the top. People who act outrageous and over the top in any situation usually do so because they are continuing a pattern of outrageous and over the top behavior.
The word I hear on the street is Warner never negiotiated in good faith on that panel/budget mess and started the whole mess with the full intention of making Wilder an example to all Virginia Democrats about what happens if you refuse to yield to Warner's wishes as Gov. and party leader on any subject.

Warner got in a public war with Wilder because Warner started the whole mess with the intention of getting in a public war with someone that would ruin a reputation and force all VA dems to yield to Warner on all political subjects in the state. Warner selected Wilder to be his victim before the mess even started. Warner saw Dubya pulling all those loyalty tests in DC, and he figured he would create a situation to set up the same situtation in VA. Instead, Warner made himself look like a petulant child with his refusals, and Wilder won the Richmond mayor's race by 75% after Warner had earlier predicted Wilder's defeat.

[politicasista]

27. Are you serious?

I don't live in Virgina, but I like Wilder.

Comments' pick up of kos....
Warner pissed off the whole African-american community in the South with his very public war with Doug Wilder.
The rumors I've heard is that Warner isn't running for Senate in VA because he's infuriated the African-American community in VA so much with his attacks on Wilder that they won't show to vote for him against Allen.

iWarner refused to congratulate Wilder.
Warner was the one that made himself look thouroughly childish by refusing to campaign for Wilder in Richmond mayor's race or even more ridiculously continued his tantrum by refusing to congratulate Wilder when Wilder won the Richmond mayoral race.

Sorry, he is not Bill Clinton. I think I will look at someone else. Plus, Dems like him should not badmouth former presidental candidates without researching facts.

[spooky3]

33. According to this 2001 WaPo dialogue, Wilder was the one who originally

attacked Warner as being "unqualified". There obviously is more to the story.

By the way, Sabato is a conservative and his bias has shown up in various WaPo articles since then, so I don't know how much to rely on his perceptions here.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/liveonline/01/metro/metro_sabato100801.htm

Alexandria, Va.: Mark Warner, who has impressed me in the past, really seemed off his game in that debate last week. Do you think his jittery performance had anything to do with the fact that former governor Wilder was the moderator? If I'm not mistaken, Warner used to work for Wilder. But Wilder seems to relish roughing up people he has been close with. Do you think Wilder will unload on Warner the way he did Beyer and Terry?

Larry J. Sabato: You are correct in many respects. Warner did not do at all well last Wednesday and Earley clearly won that debate. Partly, Earley won because he was particularly good that night. But also it was 2 to 1 on the stage and Wilder questioned Warner far more harshly than he did Earley. It is well known behind the scenes that Wilder has been unhappy with Warner. Wilder has said repeatedly that Warner is not very qualified to be Governor and that he, Wilder, has been responsible for most of Warner's qualifications (such as being Wilder's campaign chair in 1989 and an appointment to the State Transportation Board). So Wilder was anything but kind to Warner on Wednesday night. Nonetheless, that does not mean that Wilder will not endorse Warner in the end. As you know, the former Governor is very unpredictable, so we will all find out together.

[spooky3]

35. As documented by a DUer previously, George Allen deserves zero

support from anyone, particularly from African Americans, as he allegedly has been a racist since high school days in California.

http://www.brendan-nyhan.com/blog/2005/05/george_allens_h.html

[Guaranteed]

25. That guy's an idiot.

He acts as if it isn't his approach that's been losing elections for us for years and years.

[bemildred]

28. Spinelessness is not a form of orthodoxy.

The problem is a refusal to address real issues.

If you allow the discussion to be limited to gay marriage, abortion, jingo americanism, and religion, you will lose, and you will deserve to lose.

He does have this right:

The Congressional wing of the Democratic Party is kind of the ultimate party of the status quo," said Warner

[Lydia Leftcoast]

29. Depends entirely on what he thinks "Democratic orthodoxy" is

For the past 25 years, "Democratic orthodoxy" has meant "Don't offend the Republicans or the corporate contributors, and don't rock the boat too much."

Until the Democrats are as bold in their initiatives as the Republicans are, the non-voters and the swing voters are going to look at them and yawn.

There are real unmet needs in this country for healthcare, housing, transportation (especially non-automotive), living-wage jobs, a cleaner environment, and a more cooperative and humane foreign policy. Just look around without your corporate think tank blinders. Listen to real people. Find out where they're suffering and think about what could help THEM, not what will please the Bush in-laws who are among the funders of the PPI.

These issues are not even on the Republicans' radar. Sad to say, they are not on most Democrats' radar, and the members of the Progressive Caucus, some of the few to raise these issues, are considered "fringe."

Any Democrat who was doing his job would scare the hell out of the corporate muckymucks. Unfortunately, he probably would meet the same fate as Robert Kennedy.

[loudsue]

31. Yep...or Paul Wellstone.

You're right, Lydia, as is Patrick and the others who understand how to translate DLC-speak into real English.

Besides, those who COUNT the votes, decide who wins an election. And one helluva lot of the Dems that are winning elections, are in bed with the ones who count the votes...funny, that.

Warner may win some Dem primaries if he keeps talking like this: the vote counting machines speak his language. The same language as the talking head "liberals" that manage to get air time on teevee and newspapers.

We need the "heart" of the Democratic party to start beating, again, and come back to life. This other "put down the progressive Dems" propaganda just doesn't fly with real Democrats.

:kick::kick::kick:

[ClarkUSA]

32. Let me guess... DLC Chairman Evan Bayh agrees with Gov. Warner

and they want to be the "electable" 2008 ticket.

Did y'all see Evan Bayh grinning fatuously at Rumsfield yesterday at the Congressional hearings as if he were looking at his first love while Rumsfield started verbally ticking off all the "good" he says that's being done in Iraq?

It was sickening. WTH would any Democrat be smiling and nodding while Rumsfield is lying?

What are Mark Warner's views on Bush's wars, anyway? Or has he been very careful to voice no opinion thus far so he can be a blank slate until he remakes himself for the 2008 primaries?

If Warner thinks VA is about as red as it gets, he hasn't checked out Texas or Kansas recently. Northern VA is not red at all - it's become a bedroom community of DC.

I've heard about his feud with Wilder, too. And he's got no experience in foreign policy or national security, which is the Achilles' Heel for the Democratic Party (see 2004). How the hell is he, a mega-millionaire businessman cum governor going to sound at all credible on the war on terror, which will no doubt again be the centerpiece for the GOP in 2008?

I don't like the fact Warner was forced to confess he had gone to Bilderburg on the sly after being investigated by a reporter and cornered about it. That smacks of being anointed. Been there, done that.

Warner's remarks makes me uneasy. It's as if he is disavowing what it is to be a liberal Democrat.

Some men are proud to be liberal Democrats:

"I am a liberal. We live in a liberal democracy. That's what we created in this country. That's in our Constitution. ... I think we should be very clear on this. You know, this country was founded on the principals of the Enlightenment. It was the idea that people could talk, reason, have dialogue, discuss the issues. It wasn't founded on the idea that someone would get stuck by a divine inspiration and know everything right from wrong. I mean, people who founded this country had religion, they had strong beliefs, but they believed in reason, in dialogue, in civil
discourse. We can't lose that in this country. We've got to get it back."

Wes Clark - September 5, 2003

[LightningFlash]

36. No more of this crap. These men are democrats in name only.

Get them out of here, and LIEberman too, do it for the good of the country. :thumbsdown: