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A History of Kerry's Words Related to His IWR Vote

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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:35 AM
Original message
A History of Kerry's Words Related to His IWR Vote
I'm sure many of you will continue to bash Kerry's IWR vote, without reading this, because it's so long. That's my fault. :( I welcome inclusions of anything important I've missed.

First, it is rarely mentioned that John Kerry was instrumental in Bush even coming to the Congress in the first place. He could have gone to war without going to Congress first. Bush sure wanted to go to war no matter what. On September 6th, 2002, Kerry wrote an editorial in the NYT about the Iraq situation. It is an amazing read:

“If we are to put American lives at risk in a foreign war, President Bush must be able to say to this nation that we had no choice, that this was the only way we could eliminate a threat we could not afford to tolerate.”
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg95577.html



Kerry did not back off his word/NYT editorial, ever. Here are some quotes from his statement on the Senate floor during the debate on the IWR:

“I know for Senator Hagel, Senator McCain, and myself, when we pick up the newspapers and read about the residuals of the Vietnam war, there is a particular sensitivity because I do not think any of us feel a residual with respect to the choices we are making now.
I know for myself back in that period of time, even as I protested the war, I wrote that if my Nation was again threatened and Americans made the decision we needed to defend ourselves, I would be among the first to put on a uniform again and go and do that.”
“The administration's decision to engage on this issue now, rather than a year ago or earlier, and the manner in which it has engaged, has politicized and complicated the national debate and raised questions about the credibility of their case.”
“I would have preferred that the President agree to the approach drafted by Senators Biden and Lugar because that resolution would authorize the use of force for the explicit purpose of disarming Iraq and countering the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.
   The Biden-Lugar resolution also acknowledges the importance of the President's efforts at the United Nations. It would require the President, before exercising the authority granted in the resolution, to send a determination to Congress that the United States tried to seek a new Security Council resolution or that the threat posed by Iraq's WMD is so great he must act absent a new resolution--a power, incidentally, that the President of the United States always has.
   I believe this approach would have provided greater clarity to the American people about the reason for going to war and the specific grant of authority. I think it would have been a better way to do this. But it does not change the bottom line of what we are voting for.”
(The Presidnetial Determination section was eventually added to the IWR.)
“In giving the President this authority, I expect him to fulfill the commitments he has made to the American people in recent days--to work with the United Nations Security Council to adopt a new resolution setting out tough and immediate inspection requirements, and to act with our allies at our side if we have to disarm Saddam Hussein by force. If he fails to do so, I will be among the first to speak out.“
“In voting to grant the President the authority, I am not giving him carte blanche to run roughshod over every country that poses or may pose some kind of potential threat to the United States. Every nation has the right to act preemptively, if it faces an imminent and grave threat, for its self-defense under the standards of law. The threat we face today with Iraq does not meet that test yet. I emphasize ``yet.'' Yes, it is grave because of the deadliness of Saddam Hussein's arsenal and the very high probability that he might use these weapons one day if not disarmed. But it is not imminent, and no one in the CIA, no intelligence briefing we have had suggests it is imminent. None of our intelligence reports suggest that he is about to launch an attack.”
“If we do wind up going to war with Iraq, it is imperative that we do so with others in the international community, unless there is a showing of a grave, imminent--and I emphasize "imminent"--threat to this country which requires the President to respond in a way that protects our immediate national security needs.”
“So I believe the Senate will make it clear, and the country will make it clear, that we will not be blackmailed or extorted by these weapons, and we will not permit the United Nations--an institution we have worked hard to nurture and create--to simply be ignored by this dictator.”


His comments start here and continue onto the next 2 pages: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?r107:13:./temp/~r1078CymOH:e80878:



I came across a speech he gave at Georgetown on January 23rd on foreign policy. Here's a little excerpt:

“In U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the United Nations has now affirmed that Saddam Hussein must disarm or face the most serious consequences. Let me make it clear that the burden is resoundingly on Saddam Hussein to live up to the ceasefire agreement he signed and make clear to the world how he disposed of weapons he previously admitted to possessing. But the burden is also clearly on the Bush Administration to do the hard work of building a broad coalition at the U.N. and the necessary work of educating America about the rationale for war. As I have said frequently and repeat here today, the United States should never go to war because it wants to, the United States should go to war because we have to. And we don't have to until we have exhausted the remedies available, built legitimacy and earned the consent of the American people, absent, of course, an imminent threat requiring urgent action.
The Administration must pass this test. I believe they must take the time to do the hard work of diplomacy. They must do a better job of making their case to the American people and to the world.
I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.”




A couple days later (29th), the President gave his State of the Union address. Kerry’s press release said of Bush:

“He talked about keeping Americans safe, but has too often practiced a blustering unilateralism that is wrong, and even dangerous, for our country. He talked about holding Saddam Hussein accountable, but has too often ignored opportunities to unify the world against this brutal dictator.”
http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/cfm/record.cfm?id=189997



I think Kerry’s goals were certainly not met by Bush’s report back to Congress pursuant to the IWR:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?r108:1:./temp/~r108IEElOk::



This lead to Kerry’s charge that it is time for “Regime change in America.” He has been very critical of the approach the administration took to diplomacy, to winning the peace, to reconstruction, while maintaining that disarming Saddam Hussein by military action was only necessary after certain conditions were met.



Most recently, in Will Pitt’s article, Kerry said:

“This was the hardest vote I have ever had to cast in my entire career,” Kerry said. “I voted for the resolution to get the inspectors in there, period. Remember, for seven and a half years we were destroying weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. In fact, we found more stuff there than we thought we would. After that came those four years when there was no intelligence available about what was happening over there. I believed we needed to get the weapons inspectors back in. I believed Bush needed this resolution in order to get the U.N. to put the inspectors back in there. The only way to get the inspectors back in was to present Bush with the ability to threaten force legitimately. That’s what I voted for.
The way Powell, Eagleberger, Scowcroft, and the others were talking at the time,” continued Kerry, “I felt confident that Bush would work with the international community. I took the President at his word. We were told that any course would lead through the United Nations, and that war would be an absolute last resort. Many people I am close with, both Democrats and Republicans, who are also close to Bush told me unequivocally that no decisions had been made about the course of action. Bush hadn’t yet been hijacked by Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney and that whole crew. Did I think Bush was going to charge unilaterally into war? No. Did I think he would make such an incredible mess of the situation? No. Am I angry about it? You’re God damned right I am. I chose to believe the President of the United States. That was a terrible mistake.”




It is not John Kerry who owes an apology for voting for the IWR, it is George Bush who needs to apologize for the “fuck up,” as Kerry recently called it. Kerry and Congress (and thus, the people) trusted Bush, and he fucked up. So stop the anti-Kerry banter based on his IWR vote. His intestest was the safety of the people he represents. Kerry shouldn't be faulted for caring about his constituents. This does not make him a "Bush-enabler." His vote, as he explained/defined/defended it, was not to give Bush exactly what he wanted.
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La_Serpiente Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. Awesome post
post in later in the day so more people can see it. Most people are sleeping now. :-)
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Good idea!
Self kicks are lame. :( Oh well! It's for a good cause!!!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:46 AM
Response to Original message
2. July 2002 - takes the lead in criticizing Bush
More words from Kerry, when Dean was condemning Democrats and saying we shouldn't criticize the President during a time of war. Check the July 2002 interview with Tim Russert.

"I think the administration has behaved quite clumsily and haphazardly on a lot of foreign policy fronts," Kerry said in an interview with editors and reporters.

Kerry, who has taken the lead among Democrats in breaking out of the party's post-Sept 11 reluctance to criticize Bush on foreign affairs, said he believed a power struggle in the Bush team was at least partially responsible for mixed signals sent to both Israel and the Palestinians.

"It's a most incredible display in my judgment of a kind of amateur hour, and the reason is there is no one person in charge," Kerry said. "Colin Powell is not being allowed to be secretary of state, in my judgment. They restrain him."

Kerry also questioned the tough message directed at Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, accused by Bush of belonging to an "axis of evil" and developing chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Bush has said he will use all available tools to unseat the Iraqi leader.

"The rhetoric has been a huge mistake, the rhetoric is way ahead of the possibilities," Kerry said. "Frankly, that just makes us look silly and strengthens him to some degree."

http://www.dawn.com/2002/07/19/int3.htm
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Deb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you
You've pulled me over the IWR hump, it was the only reservation I had about Kerry.

For anyone else who missed Will's editorial -
http://truthout.org/docs_03/121003A.shtml
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molly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thankyou for this post!
I'm hoping logic will prevail for those critical of Kerry. You said it best in your summary -

"His intestest was the safety of the people he represents. Kerry shouldn't be faulted for caring about his constituents. This does not make him a "Bush-enabler." His vote, as he explained/defined/defended it, was not to give Bush exactly what he wanted.'
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adadem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:11 AM
Response to Original message
6. Thank you
for taking the time to put this post together. Those of us who have admired Senator Kerry for a long time knew this...he is a man of integrity and strength. He is my first choice for the nominee because, now more than ever, we need a president who has some honor, integrity and some smarts!:)
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. It's the least I can do for the best man in the race.
I was just so infuriated by people calling Kerry a warmonger and Bush-enabler. In the reactions to this post, I've been surprised to seen nobody refute it. Probably because they haven't taken the time to read it...?


I wish someone would take the time to do it for Gephardt, and Edwards.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 09:24 AM
Response to Original message
7. "US should never go to war because it wants to." Bush did exactly that!
Kerry: "As I have said frequently and repeat here today, the United States should never go to war because it wants to, the United States should go to war because we have to. And we don't have to until we have exhausted the remedies available, built legitimacy and earned the consent of the American people, absent, of course, an imminent threat requiring urgent action.

The Administration must pass this test. I believe they must take the time to do the hard work of diplomacy. They must do a better job of making their case to the American people and to the world."
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 10:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent work.
by you and Kerry!
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BackDoorMan Donating Member (412 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-03 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #8
47. Not sure I understand?
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dtseiler Donating Member (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fantastapotamus
One of the best reads I've had in recent weeks.  Hopefully
this kind of message gets out there to more and more people.
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Granite Donating Member (195 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Thank you!
You summed up perfectly what I've been trying to say for months. The frustrating thing is that this message isn't getting out. Another poster on another message board that I visit just posted this: "Kerry...flip-flopped on the war again on Sunday. That will hurt more in the primaries." Aaaaaaaaah! Is this laziness, media influence, true misunderstanding of JK's position, or primary politics spin? Anyway, thanks for providing ammunition to counter it!

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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Alot of the criticism is insincere.
Many know that Kerry and Dean's positions were not that much different, but they play up their outrage and sanctimony on IWR just to hurt Kerry for any reason, because they know their boy doesn't hold up under scrutiny. If they were sincere they'd be Kucinich supporters.
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bbmykel Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Your reply manages to be both
delusional and condescending.

Maybe you are just projecting.

I think some Kerry supporters are so defensive because they know in their hearts that his vote was a political one--trying to position himself on the "correct" side of a potentially popular war. Kerry is an adept debater and is able to argue either side convincingly thus enabling him to have his cake and eat it too. This was certainly clear yesterday when he "spun" his vote for a different audience--please note that I do not imply Kerry was saying anything different or inconsistent; Kerry is much too canny a politician for that. However, he is able to spin the same vote depending on the audience--from his 'mea culpa' at Al Franken's gathering to his 'tough on defense' performance on the media shows yesterday. Make no mistake, there was no inconsistency in the wording--Kerry knows the game of 'gotcha' that will be played and knows how to avoid the traps. But he was clearly playing to a different audience yesterday than the one he played to at Frankens.

I don't have any objection to those defending Kerry's vote as (potentially) smart politics but please don't defend it as a matter of principle.



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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. And as a matter of principle Kerry was correct
Bush was the incorrect one.

Saddam's live surrender is further proof that Kerry was correct, for it shows that Saddam was open to negotiation, and inspections and further pressure would have yielded a result. I'm sorry, but on matters of defense you err on the side of caution. Kerry's vote was absolutely correct, and effective diplomacy would have yielded the result Kerry (and most everyone) intended.

Kerry haters dismiss his vote as political calculation, without serious consideration of the full perspective.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. Simple. You're wrong. Kerry's on record for Saddam's removal since 1998
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 04:43 PM by blm
and he even worked with Clinton on that military strategy and postSaddam Iraq policy at that time. There wass no political calculus then or now.

To say he's been inconsistent merely because he criticizes Bush for the process he undertook is absurd. He first wanted all diplomacy exhausted and THEN use of force as a last resort and with our allies and VERY important to have a plan to win the peace, postSaddam.

I think very few people bothered to take the time to understand Iraq policy as it existed in the Clinton years and how that effected the vote in 2002.
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bbmykel Donating Member (235 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. Then why was it the "hardest vote he ever had to make"? n/t
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. War is an easy vote?
BLM shows he had long and consistent concerns about Saddam. Everybody did, it's well documented. In 1997 he wrote The New War on terrorism, drugs/guns, money laundering etc. He's introduced legislation on weapons proliferation, arms sales, etc. He is a leader on this issues.

He also had a consistent concerns about George Bush. Post #2 lays it out.

So he has to choose between Saddam and WMD or George Bush. The hardest vote he ever had to make. His speech ought to be enough to convince anybody.

http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. Because it wasn't Clinton he was dealing with, anymore.
I imagine that he knew there was a faction within the administration who were pushing for war, but, other actors like Powell, Eagleberger and Scowcroft were reassuring that war was a last resort. For someone like Kerry, war is never easy.

You should read his letters home during Vietnam that were published by Douglas Brinkley last month.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Very telling
A truly insightful and caring person.

http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/clips/news_2003_1119a.html
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-03 07:12 AM
Response to Reply #10
48. Hi dtseiler!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
12. Here's the problem
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS
Senator Kerry, the first question goes to you. On March 19th, President Bush ordered General Tommy Franks to execute the invasion of Iraq. Was that the right decision at the right time?

SENATOR JOHN KERRY
George, I said at the time I would have preferred if we had given diplomacy a greater opportunity, but I think it was the right decision to disarm Saddam Hussein, and when the President made the decision, I supported him, and I support the fact that we did disarm him.


May 4th, 2004

Does that sound like the pre-war Kerry who said war MUST be a last resort?

That said, Saddam Hussein is a tyrant, truly the personification of evil. He has launched two wars of aggression against his neighbors, perpetrated environmental disaster, purposefully destabilized an entire region of the world, murdered tens of thousands of his own citizens, flouted the will of the United Nations and the world in acquiring weapons of mass destruction, conspired to assassinate the former President of the United States, and provided harbor and support to terrorists bent on destroying us and our friends.

From that perspective, regardless of the Administration's mishandling of so much of this situation, no President can defer the national security decisions of this country to the United Nations or any other multilateral institution or individual country.

Even having botched the diplomacy, it is the duty of any President, in the final analysis, to defend this nation and dispel the security threats - threats both immediate and longer term - against it.

Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself by refusing for twelve years to comply with the mandates of the United Nations. The brave and capable men and women of our armed forces and those who are with us will quickly , I know, remove him once and for all as a threat to his neighbors, to the world, and to his own people, and I support their doing so.


March 17th, 2003

Does that sound like someone who said we MUST NOT rush to war?

Saddam Hussein made a grave error when he chose to make war with the ultimate weapons-inspections enforcement mechanism.


April 11th, 2003

If Kerry opposed a rush to war, why did he support this one?

Did he think the benefits of invading Iraq outwieghed the botched diplomacy, the cutting short of inspections, the abandoning of the UN, and rushing headlong into war prematurely, and Bush basically violating every condition Kerry said he must meet before he wages war? If so, I have to question his judgement.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Support the goal, not the methods
Phase One: Confront Saddam and get the inspectors in, hold him accountable to disarm with full cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA by THEIR standards. Voted to do this.

Phase Two: The process to get this done, diplomatically and the actual execution, timing and necessity of military action IN March. Bush was a disaster and Kerry said so in that very statement you quoted and several statements before that. It doesn't, however, change his opinion that Saddam must be held accountable and that Saddam didn't cooperate fully, according to Blix and al Baradi, with disarmament. He continues to support the goal, not Bush's methods. And since the troops were on the ground, he hoped they'd be successful since Bush sent them in, however ill-advisedly.

Phase Three: Post-war. He still doesn't support Bush's methods because they've proven to be disastrous. He continues to state, to this day, that Bush rushed to war and the results have caused deaths and suffering that could have been avoided.

Consistent, consistent, consistent. If people ready the numerous statements he's made and not just pull out a couple of paragraphs meant to support the troops, not George Bush or the war.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Kerry said Bush already had the ability to go to war, before the IWR
Bush said he was going in "with or without" the UN, before the IWR.

Why did/does Kerry think voting for this;

The President is authorized to use the Armed Forces of the United States as he determines to be necessary and appropriate in order to --
(1) defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq; and
(2) enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.


What did that change?

Bush before IWR: We are going in.
IWR: Bush can go in when he wants to.
Bush after IWR: We are going in.

If Kerry really thought Bush was going to work through the UN, and only voted for the bill to backup Bush's threat of force in order to get Saddam to comply, fine. I've also heard, from Kerry supporters, that since Kerry knew Bush was going in anyway, he worked to try and get Bush to do so multilaterally.

Anyway, why did Kerry, after making several statements saying war MUST be a last resort (and expressing support for more time for inspectors, etc...), end up giving his blessing to the war? Did he think the toppling of Saddam was such an important goal that war being a last resort and giving more time to diplomacy went from a MUST into his preference? If he believes toppling Saddam was worth the price, even despite Bush's massive fuck up, I have to question his judgement.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Aren't you glad Kerry forced him to the UN?
See post #2. If it hadn't been for John Kerry, Bush would have just went right to war. We wouldn't have any evidence whatsoever of Bush's lies or willingness to do anything to go to war.

And I have no idea where you get the idea that Kerry gave his blessing to the war? He simply said he supported the goal of holding Saddam accountable and since the troops were in the field, he hoped they succeeded in their mission. What's he supposed to say, he hoped the troops would fail?

I already pointed out to you that Dean's statement today is the exact one that Kerry has had since last July. You responded that policy positions aren't copyrighted.

Kerry's approach was 100% accurate. It was accurate back in 1991 as well, when he supported further diplomacy to attempt to get Saddam out of Kuwait without force. That could have led to a totally different turn of events with Iraq and avoided the war we have today. It also might have avoided Saddam killing all those people after Bush encouraged the Iraqis into an uprising.

Howard Dean has no clue what he's doing in foreign policy and military issues. It's quite clear. We will be slaughtered next year if we run this guy.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #25
29. I'm sorry how's this about Dean? Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean Dean
:freak:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. How mature
We're talking about war and death and rogue nations and WMD. And you're Dean Dean Dean. This country is so fucked.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #31
36. Death, rogue nations and WMD...
Death = plenty of it because of the Iraq War

Rogue Nation = The US under a * administration

WMD = Still lookin for those

Yep, the country is fucked.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. Yeah, the mideast is free of all that
No WMD, no rogue nations, nothing like that going on in the ME. I don't want a President who pretends none of this stuff exists or even that you can always deal with it through diplomacy alone. We did the right thing getting inspectors back in Iraq. Bush did the wrong thing lying us into a war. But the world is still better off with Saddam out of power. Even Ho Ho finally understands that.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #25
33. It doesn't seem to have helped much
Bush was going to go in with or without the UN.
The IWR let Bush go in with or without the UN.
Bush went in without the UN.

And if Kerry had any mistaken notion Bush was going to work with the UN, then the horrible diplomacy leading up to the war should have convinced him otherwise and he should have been against the invasion.

Kerry gave his blessing on the war when he said he supported the presidents decision to invade.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Kerry would not do anything to undermine troops in the field
once committed to action Kerry supported the troops. Dissent had to be put aside. Even Howard (the coward) abided by that sentiment for a day or 2.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. Then why did he say "we need a regime change at home"
Just weeks after the war started?

Why couldn't Kerry just say, like Dean, that rushing to war was wrong and he thought the invasion was wrong? Did "supporting the troops" mean having to say he supported Bush's decision to invade?
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
28. The rest of the statement
Maybe you've never read the entire statement. He supports the military doing what the President orders them to do and he recognizes Presidents make those calls. He certainly doesn't say it's what he would have done, what he preferred, or in any way thinks it was the best course. In fact, he ends by saying it will take years to repair the damage Bush caused in the way he handled Iraq.

"I find myself genuinely angered, saddened and dismayed by the situation in which this nation finds itself tonight. As the world's sole superpower in an increasingly hostile and dangerous world, our government's obligation to protect the security of the United States and the law abiding nations of the world could not be more clear, particularly in the aftermath of September 11th.

Yet the Administration's handling of the run up to war with Iraq could not possibly have been more inept or self-defeating. President Bush has clumsily and arrogantly squandered the post 9/11 support and goodwill of the entire civilized world in a manner that will make the jobs ahead of us - both the military defeat and the rebuilding of Iraq - decidedly more expensive in every sense of that word.

The Administration's indifference to diplomacy and the manner in which it has treated friend and foe alike over the past several months have left this country with vastly reduced influence throughout the world, made impossible the assembly of a broad, multinational effort against Saddam Hussein, and dramatically increased the costs of fulfilling our legitimate security obligations at home and around the world.

At home, the Administration has given too short shrift to the needs of homeland security, ignoring the advice of their own experts, doing the job on the fly and on the cheap. To this administration, homeland security is a fine political weapon, but not high enough a priority to force a reassessment of their tax cuts to the rich and the special interests.

That said, Saddam Hussein is a tyrant, truly the personification of evil. He has launched two wars of aggression against his neighbors, perpetrated environmental disaster, purposefully destabilized an entire region of the world, murdered tens of thousands of his own citizens, flouted the will of the United Nations and the world in acquiring weapons of mass destruction, conspired to assassinate the former President of the United States, and provided harbor and support to terrorists bent on destroying us and our friends.

From that perspective, regardless of the Administration's mishandling of so much of this situation, no President can defer the national security decisions of this country to the United Nations or any other multilateral institution or individual country.

Even having botched the diplomacy, it is the duty of any President, in the final analysis, to defend this nation and dispel the security threats - threats both immediate and longer term - against it.

Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself by refusing for twelve years to comply with the mandates of the United Nations. The brave and capable men and women of our armed forces and those who are with us will quickly , I know, remove him once and for all as a threat to his neighbors, to the world, and to his own people, and I support their doing so.

My strong personal preference would have been for the Administration - like the Administration of George Bush, Sr. -- to have given diplomacy more time, more commitment, a real chance of success. In my estimation, giving the world thirty additional days for additional real multilateral coalition building - a real summit, not a five hour flyby with most of the world's powers excluded -- would have been prudent and no impediment to our military situation, an assessment with which our top military brass apparently agree. Unfortunately, that is an option that has been disregarded by President Bush. In the colloquial, we are where we are.

It will take years to repair the needless damage done by this Administration, damage to our international standing and moral leadership, to traditional and time-tested alliances, to our relations with the Arab world, ultimately to ourselves. Let's finish the process we began twelve years ago of disarming Saddam and ridding the world of this menace. Let's begin to rebuild our sense of national unity. Let's begin the work of building a stronger, safer world, of rebuilding alliances, and staying the course of long term involvement the Middle East in order to reclaim our rightful place of respect in the world order."
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. I read the whole statement.
Kerry basically says Bush screwed up but supports the war anyway. If he was serious about war being a last resort, and appropriate statement would have been "the invasion is premature and I am against it", not "Bush is a screwup but we must get Saddam"
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
39. He did not
"My strong personal preference would have been for the Administration - like the Administration of George Bush, Sr. -- to have given diplomacy more time, more commitment, a real chance of success."

He said Bush is a screwup, but getting Saddam will be a good thing in the end. Same thing Howard said today.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. It went from being a must, to his preference...
Then he goes and gives weak statements like "I would have prefered more diplomacy but when Bush made the decision I supported it" and macho bullcrap like "saddam hussein made a grave error when he chose to make war on the ultimate weapons inspection team" or whatever it was.

I just don't see how anyone can say he was against the war.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-03 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #41
50. Pro inspections
Against Bush's unilateral blustering badly executed war. And he continues to criticize Bush's handling of the entire situation.

Bush or Saddam. October 2002. You can shoot one of them to make the people of the world safer. Which one do you shoot?
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bush took a legit need to protect the US & contain Saddam and corrupted it
And too many DUers are in such a blind push against Bush that good, honorable Democrats like John Kerry are caught along with him. It's tragic.
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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #14
42. I agree that we should be HITTING BUSH not Kerry.

I think Kennedy had the right approach. But he defends Kerry's
intent, so we should accept that.
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Monte Carlo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. I think the difference between a 'yes' and a 'no' vote...
... was very narrow. There were legitimate reasons for force, and there were legitimate reasons not to use force in Iraq. Leaving Saddam in power unchecked was not good for Iraq, and invading the country to topple Saddam, killing thousands, was not good, either. I feel those who demanded a 'yes' vote from the Democratic candidates reduced a complex issue like this war down too far.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #14
45. Yep, thus the mentality that Bush = Kerry in their black and white minds.
No wonder anyone who deceptively demagogues the issue can draw support.
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LuminousX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thank you for your efforts.
Edited on Mon Dec-15-03 04:07 PM by LuminousX
I feel better about voting for Kerry if Kerry gets the nomination after readin all of this.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
22. Here Is A History Going Back To 1997
“Saddam Hussein cannot be permitted to go unobserved and unimpeded toward his horrific objective of amassing a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. This is not a matter about which there should be any debate whatsoever in the Security Council, or, certainly, in this Nation.” Sen. John Kerry 11/9/97

"Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East.” Sen. John Kerry, 2/23/98

“It is imperative for us as a nation to stand our ground and for the western world to make clear that we cannot abide by any nation breaking out, so to speak, with respect to the capacity to possess and use those kinds of weapons. And so that principle is enormous. … But we cannot be pressured into a position that calls on us to give up what are the legitimate interests of our country and of the world with respect to the behavior of Saddam Hussein.” Sen. John Kerry, 2/23/98

“Saddam Hussein has violated ... that standard on several occasions previously and by most people’s expectation, no matter what agreement we come up with, may well do so again. The greater likelihood is that we will be called on to send our ships and our troops at one point in the future back to the Middle East to stand up to the next crisis.” Sen. John Kerry, 2/23/98

"I think all of us are deeply concerned about the degree to which certain countries seem to be contributing to the potential of instability in the world. Obviously, there is nothing more destabilizing or threatening than weapons of mass destruction. We have spent an enormous amount of time and energy focused on Iraq, on Iran, on Russia, on loose nukes, on nuclear materials, and of course on China and on the issue of the transfer of technology to Pakistan.” Sen. John Kerry, 9/11/00

http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research061903.htm
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. And Here Is Bill Clinton On The Use Of Force
"The credible threat to use force, and when necessary, the actual use of force, is the surest way to contain Saddam's weapons of mass destruction program, curtail his aggression and prevent another Gulf War." 12/17/98

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/1998/12/17/loc_clintons_statement.html

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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #22
40. I don't see what you are trying to support?
These quotes from 97-98 all say Saddam is a bad man... He's an awful man if he is able to have WMD.

I don't think you can dispute that. These say Kerry was for containment and supression of Saddam.

"The greater likelihood is that we will be called on to send our ships and our troops at one point in the future back to the Middle East to stand up to the next crisis." -- This doesn't say that we should, there's a good chance we will have to.
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NewYorkerfromMass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #40
43. Funk is a huge Kerry supporter
huge. and I'm not talking about his relative girth or weight.
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-16-03 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. Oh!
More umm.. power to ya then, Funk! :bounce:
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
27. Good'un
:)
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curse10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-15-03 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
37. Thanks mb7588a!
And welcome to DU :hi:

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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-03 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
49. More of
The war was a good idea just poorly managed.

There were no weapons. George (f*** Saddam we are taking him out) Bush* was seen as trustworthy, even after the Rove powerpoint "focus on war" campaign strategy was public info.

There were no weapons. Pre-emptive war in the absence of an imminent threat is a violation of international law and treaties we are signatories to. However, this was not as much a concern as Rove's 'focus on the war' campaign strategy.

Bush* started bombing a city with 4 million civilians without 'reading the entire report' apparently the same can be said of others.

Parse and caveat all he wishes, the vote is the vote, the language in the resolution is plain, Bush* complied with it. If he wanted Bush* to act in another way, a different resolution would have been the right call here.
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