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Kerry says he will fight for us, but............

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pnziii Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:07 PM
Original message
Kerry says he will fight for us, but............
Take a look at Kerry's voting record. How can we believe he is going to fight FOR us when he voted AGAINST us.

Senate Vote on Welfare Reform H.R. 3734

Welfare reform - The Senate approved legislation that preyed on the limited rights of vulnerable groups including children, immigrants, the poor and the elderly in the name of welfare reform. The bill also eroded free speech for not-for-profit organizations, violated the separation of church and state, and damaged privacy rights by establishing a de facto national identification system.

Sen John Kerry voted for this and so did Santorum & Ashcroft

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Senate Vote on Government Funding of Religious Institutions S. 1956

Government Funding of Religious Institutions - Included in the welfare overhaul was a provision that could force state governments, under threat of lawsuits, to contract with religious institutions, including houses of worship, to provide taxpayer-funded social services, even if they are delivered in a proselytizing environment. This, too, was a recurring theme in the 104th Congress where
opponents of religious liberty repeatedly sought to pass provisions to lower the wall of separation between church and state

Kerry voted for this and so did Santorum & Ashcroft

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How the Senate voted on Internet Censorship S.652

Internet Censorship - As part of a major overhaul of the nation's telecommunications industries, both the House and Senate approved major new censorship schemes for the Internet. The Senate adopted its version, the so-called Communications Decency Act.

Kerry voted for this.

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Senate Vote on Campaign Finance Reform S. 1219

Campaign Finance Reform - In a sign of widespread disillusion with the political process, both the House and Senate considered versions of campaign finance reform that the ACLU believed to be
unconstitutional infringements of free speech provisions of the First Amendment.

Kerry voted for this and voted against the First amendment... Even Ashcroft and Santorum voted for the First Amendment.

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Senate Vote on Medical Privacy H.R 3103

Medical privacy - Hidden within the massive health care reform bill approved by Congress in the stampede for an August recess was a deceptively labeled provision that further eroded the privacy rights of all Americans. The provision, known as "administrative simplification," gives government and businesses access to confidential medical information about individuals without their consent and establishes a unique health identification number for every patient, health provider, health plan and employer

Kerry, Ashcroft, Santorum and many others voted against Medical Privacy
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Senate Vote on Immigration Legislation H.R. 2202

Immigration - Seeking to capitalize on a wave of anti-immigration initiatives, both the House and Senate passed bills that represented the most draconian and divisive immigration proposals in decades. Included were provisions that would strip the courts of jurisdiction over illegal and abusive INS actions and erect enormous and virtually insurmountable barriers for most people seeking political asylum.

Kerry, Ashcroft, Santorum and many others voted for this
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Senate Vote on National ID Cards S. 1664

National ID Card - One of the most pervasive themes of the 104th Congress has been proposals to establish a national identification system as a means of tracking undocumented workers, so-called deadbeat dads and to monitor health insurance information. Various database schemes have been included in bills as diverse as immigration, welfare reform and health insurance. Since these proposals have been buried in much larger legislation, it was often difficult to determine the position of members of Congress

Kerry voted FOR this... Even Lieberman, Ashcroft, Lott and Santorum were against this
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Senate Vote on Wiretapping

Wiretapping - Although the interception of innocent conversations in federal law enforcement wiretaps is already at record levels, Congress has been repeatedly asked to give the FBI even greater authority to wiretap. Proposals have ranged from providing $500 million to the nation's phone companies to finance a retrofit of their systems to make it easier for the FBI to wiretap to permitting law enforcement agencies to use more "roving" wiretaps (without specifying which phone is to be tapped), and more "emergency" wiretaps (without obtaining a prior court order).

Kerry voted FOR Wiretapping along with his buddy Santorum
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How the Senate Voted on Counter-Terrorism S. 735

Counter-terrorism - The bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building lifted from obscurity a Clinton Administration proposal to increase the powers of law enforcement in the name of fighting terrorism. The measure gave the government the power to use secret evidence to deport immigrants it accuses of being "terrorists" and to exclude aliens merely because they are members of a disfavored foreign group.

Kerry voted FOR this with Ashcroft and Santorum...


Kerry's voting record on these issues is almost as bad as Santorum... Least Santorum voted against national ID cards w/ the likes of Lott and even Ashcroft...

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LBJBestEver Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Please stop bashing Kerry <nm>
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. highlighting anti-progressive votes
isn't exactly bashing.
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LBJBestEver Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Please stop bashing Kerry <nm>
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. jmaier never bashes anyone
And everyone on DU knows this. You might consider apologizing to one of the fairest and most considerate among us.
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jmaier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. thanks, Jersey
No worries. This is another Du'er who seems to be posting with one particular viewpoint at the moment. There are days reading some threads here that I'd like to bash someone -- though, it's rarely one of the candidates. :-)
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creativelcro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #7
26. What's true is true... Kerry's record shows he would wimp out on us...
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LBJBestEver Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. You would find fault with anyone not Dean
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
40. please open your eyes
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. How can one perceive this as bashing?
It is the mans voting record......We need to keep this on the front page....
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LBJBestEver Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #14
21. Voting for welfare reform is bad? give me a break
Clinton INTRODUCED IT.

Kerry has a higher liberal voting record than Ted Kennedy
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goobergunch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. It's one of the biggest black marks on Clinton's record, IMHO (n/t)
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in_cog_ni_to Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
2. Don't believe a word he says.
He's a slimeball.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.
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LBJBestEver Donating Member (112 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Please stop bashing Kerry <nm>
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Terwilliger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. losing your reading comprehension?
or easily swayed?
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ozone_man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:27 PM
Original message
I think you can't over emphasize these points. ;>)
Edited on Sun Jan-25-04 04:28 PM by ozone_man
There is much to go after in Kerry's history, but some things really stand out.

For me, the thing that stands out is that he represents the wealthy elite. Being a Forbes, he is probably close to being a billionaire, not that his wives aren't rich. He will protect the interests of the elite.

But his recent voting for the Patriot act and the Iraq war and his flip flops on the Iraq war are the clinchers. On one hand, he tries to blame Bush for the way he carried out the war, on the other hand he attacks Dean for saying that the world is no safer with SH caught.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 09:18 PM
Response to Original message
38. Yes, but your see Bush is doing the war so poorly
that he is not making us any safer. However the capture of Saddam makes us safer. and...Bush* accomplished this. Am I making myself clear!?!

It is OK to criticise Bush* if you are John Kerry, but it is unpatriotic and unpresidential to do so if you are Howard Dean.

Is that more clear?? It is the principle of the thing.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
41. I don't think his middle name Forbes has much to do with that.
I read a profile of him and I remember reading that he started some sort of business - I think it might have been a cookie business or something, but it was successful, and by the time he'd married Theresa Heinz, he'd amassed enough of his own fortune that he wasn't exactly marrying her for hers. I forget all the details, but it left me with the impression that he made his own money - the hard way - and before taking a nice cushy Senate salary. He knew about starting and building your own business.

Also, he has enough of a sympathetic track record on other issues, which I can live with, and which lend the impression that he's not so much a member of the elite. Besides, if you'll recall, the elite found ways to pull strings to get out of Vietnam, and maybe serve in the - uh, what's it called? The Texas Air National Guard?

That said, I'm still having a devil of a time getting beyond his OTHER votes - that lent the impression that all he did was cave to bush, over and over and over and over and over. I was VERY troubled that he bought the crap about Iraq and voted for the war, and for the Patriot Act, and so much more. Besides that, he took a stand against the recent ream-job of seniors with prescription drugs, but didn't stick around long enough actually to cast his vote against it. Granted, it was already looking like a sure loser, but he bailed before he could vote and at least make a statement on it. BY THE WAY - THE SAME THING APPLIES TO JOHN EDWARDS! I saw him speaking on CSPAN Saturday, and heard him bring this up - about his opposition to the pill bill. But you can bet, if he's the nominee, georgie's people will be sure to hit him with it - "but if you were against it, why did you welch out before you had a chance to vote on it?" EVERYONE will be looking at his voting record. As they should.

And I'm still waiting for him to come out swinging - with his two big guns, Joseph Wilson and Rand Beers. Haven't heard word one from either one of them, or him about them, so I'm REALLY not convinced yet that he wants to roll up his sleeves and fight as hard as we're all going to have to, to get that schmuck out of the White House. I'm STILL left asking myself - does John Kerry REALLY want this, or not? When the bushies hit him below the belt, what's he gonna do, double over and say "ouch, don't hit me"? Or is he gonna slam 'em back in the nuts, as required?
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Virgil Donating Member (410 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. He has had decades to change things
Where was his vision of democracy as the Nazis raided the treasury and trampled on the Constitution. Why is he not speaking of the thought-herding ways of conglomerate media. The media is about as big an issue as their can be and he has said nothing in the Senate and has is not saying anything now.

He is one of them. He is an agent for the plutocracy. He has had plenty of chances to take to the Senate floor and sound the alarm that Byrd has undertaken. But no, Kerry is one of them. A millionaire with an heiress of the Heinz fortune as a wife. Yeah, right Kerry. You are for the little guy alright.

Besides not doing anything to stop Nazi rule, Kerry has sat on the sidelines for thirty years and watched the failure of the WOD. The Iran-Contra investigation was chaired by Kerry. He heard testimony of the USG bringing cocaine into this country and selling it to raise money to buy arms from the US military industrial complex. The Kerry report was a whitewash role of the involvement of the USG in the drug trade. It did not say that the prime directive of prohibition is to keep up prices on a sure fire market and then go onto to build forfeiture as a way of stealing land in Colombia for US multi-nationals.

Thirty years ago they used to say "Save the rain forest." Now Kerry and his ilk say poison it and remember to buy Monsanto. Very few people would even die of cocaine if it were pure and strength were constant. But 35,000 people died last year in what is a US imposed civil war on Colombia. The media does not dare try to explain it. Silence is the best policy on the drug war as any intellect shows it for the failure and corruption that it is. And Kerry knows. He LIHOP. He is a conspirator in the drug wars and the USG involvement of the $400 billion drug trade. So is Edwards and so is Lieberman. They are all Nazis in my book and having to chose between a blue Nazi and a red Nazi is sickening.

The best choice is Kucinich because he is a clean break from our current path. Democrats outnumber Repugs 3 to 2 and there are just as many outside of both parties as in the Repub. People ask why people don't vote. Mainly because they do not think there is much difference between the red and blue Nazis. Not only could DK win, he is the only one that can change the direction of fascism.

We might have two parties but they serve the same master. I hope this makes a difference to someone and they at least understand the DK message as the media does not want to mention him.

$4.20 for Dennis
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. CFR is against us? You kidding?
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. and these are exactly the attacks the Republicans will use
Why are you using them?

And to suggest the Rick Santorum and John Kerry are somehow on the same side is just foolish...
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. don't think so
Welfare reform? National security? Faith based day care programs and the like? The Republicans will attack him with this?

No, Ralph Nader will attack him with this and convince a whole bunch of nincompoops that Dems and Pubs are exactly alike.
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
42. Now you know how it's been to be a Dean supporter.
I can't count how many threads and posts that cautioned this.

Frankly, they'd throw the book - or whatever they could get their hands on - at Dean. Why should Kerry be any different. They're going to take him apart any way they can, in order to win. And I'm wondering if those who are sensitive about Kerry critiques were equally so, when it came to the pile-on dumpfest that SO MANY were throwing at Dean. Nobody batted an eyelash about that. But now people are getting huffy that Kerry's coming under such scrutiny? Hey! Take a number! That's what happens to him (or her) who's regarded as the frontrunner. My advice to you Kerry people is - GET USED TO IT. Or, as he told those of us who are still seriously bothered by the stolen election, "GET OVER IT." You better be ready for it. It's coming, whether you like it or not. It's reasons like that - that DUers like Walt Starr have vowed NEVER to vote for Kerry for dogcatcher, and I sense that there are many more like Walt here, and out there. I'm not quite there, myself. I haven't ruled Kerry out. But I've still got some serious problems with him.
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w13rd0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. Hey, this will only bolster Kerry's newfound centrism...
...and his professed ability to reach across the aisle and hug a Republican...

pffftt. it's nuance...really...we swear...
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buckeye1 Donating Member (630 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
10. I saw Kerry on TV this morning.
I thought he looked good. Answered well. I could vote for him. ABB. ca-ching!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
11. dupe, dupe, dupe, dupe, dupe
Yes he voted for welfare reform and has also fought to get early childhood education programs, day care which is often provided through churches, campaign finance (OMG!!), helping migrant workers, national security, life saving programs like medical cards, bla bla bla. He's the devil in disguise I tell ya'!
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liberalnurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #11
23. The public needs to examine his voting record....
We want to know what he stands for and if that includes the everyday American...or self interest.

He was not in the Senate last week when we needed him to block the *bush overtime pilage......Looking at what he did not vote on is essential as well.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:13 PM
Response to Original message
12. And to think, he's had Ted Kennedy fooled all of these years.
:eyes:
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
17. More Liberal Than Kennedy!!!
That was the battle cry yesterday. How can we win with somebody more liberal than Kennedy!! This is wild. lol.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. now hes a conservative
Cant have it both ways. BTW to my knowledge on welfare reform all the major candiates supported it, I know Dean did, Clark I havent a clue he was in the military, Edwards was still praticing law.
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adamrsilva Donating Member (636 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. He also voted against the first Gulf War
and for the second.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #16
24. Thats interesting
I think thats enough to hand the election to Bush already! Why did he vote against it? anyone?
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Most of the dem senate opposed Persian Gulf
Gore was a rare one who supported it.
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pnziii Donating Member (168 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. I don't care what others did
Why do the Kerry faithful always defend Kerry with "so did other Democrats"
That's like the Freepers defending Bush by saying "Clinton thought Saddam had WMD's"

What you're telling me is it's ok Kerry voted for the wrong stuff because other Dems made the same mistake.

Well I guess Kerry would jump off a cliff if we could get the other Dems to do it first.

I want a LEADER not a follower!!!!!!
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. I don't remember that far back who was for and against
But today that is going to be like an albatross around his neck.
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BeatleBoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:18 PM
Response to Original message
19. And the Kerry train kept a rollin' all night long
And the Kerry train kept a-rollin' all night long...
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lastknowngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
20. pointing out votes is not bashing
he didn't take the time to return to vote against the bill which just took overtime pay from at least 8 mil. American workers. Do you really think they will take the time to vote for him.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #20
29. voting record- LOL

http://www.lcv.org/
Following are the liberal quotients for each year for each of the Presidential candidates.

ADA's Legislative Committee chooses the twenty votes it believes to be the most important each year. Each Member of Congress receives 5 points if he or she voted with us, and 0 points if he or she was absent or did not vote with us. The total possible is 100.

John Kerry 92%

As compared with:

Ted Kennedy 88%


http://www.lcv.org/

League of Conservation Voters, the political voice of the national environmental movement, endorsed John Kerry, who received a 96% lifetime score from the LVC, the highest of all the candidates:
“John Kerry is a man whose unparalleled record on environmental issues has earned him an extraordinary lifetime rating from the League of Conservation Voters, and he is clearly the strongest environmentalist in the field,” said Deb Callahan, president of League of Conservation Voters. “John Kerry understands that the American people need a president who will never roll over to corporate contributors at the expense of the health and safety of the public. I urge citizens and environmentalists in New Hampshire to cast their vote for John Kerry on Tuesday.”


thanks wisemen
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wheresthemind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #29
35. You can pick a few votes out of anyone and bash them with them...
You always have to look at the god damn big picture!

Thank you for pointing out JK's record, John Kerry has a history of fighting for progressive values and that can not be ignored because of a few votes!
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
37. What I am more interested in
is what votes the repugs are going to bash him with in the general, should he get the nod.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
30. "Us" doesn't include anti-war, anti-patriot act liberals.
Plus, as you point out, a lot of other folks.
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mb7588a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #30
33. anti-war, anti-patriot act liberals
Well...I reckon there's really only one man for you then - Russ Feingold, and he's not running.
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lcordero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. and I wish that he would have ran
a lot of people are predicting a brokered convention so watch out...we might get what we want.
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quaker bill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
39. I wrote the man,
I urged him to vote against IWR. Enough said.
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