Do you get sick of saying:"well, he/she is better than a Republican?

[Wetzelbill]

It makes me go nuts. Everytime I turn around I see a Biden or Lieberman or one of those guys who would rather attack Howard Dean than to stand up to Karl Rove. Dems can be so spineless.

I think electoral politics is the next wave of activism for progressives. Instead of using activism as a platform for better policy more and more progressive thinkers will use grassroots organization and elected office for their causes. An influx of Democratic activists will be running and holding offices on school boards, city councils, Mayorships, state legislatures and so on.

Because as a progressive who can you really trust, other than yourself, to do the right thing, vote the right vote and stand up for the just cause? Instead of voting for the guy who sucks less, go out and cast a vote for yourself or a candidate that you are working for, who holds your - meaning "our" as DUers - ideals.

[In Truth We Trust]

1. Kick- Paper ballots NOW! Hand count NOW!

[marmar]

2. Absolutely...

As much as I want a Democrat in la casa blanca, I'd have a real hard time supporting someone like Biden or Lieberman. Biden/Lieberman vs. a Repug might prompt me to vote for the Green Party.

[Seabiscuit]

6. You'd have a lot of company with ex-dems joining the Green Party in that

scenario. I never imagined a scenario in which I'd do it until you just spelled it out for me. Congratulations!

[bullimiami]

3. yup. just wrote it this evening about bill nelson....

well paper ballots true but instant runoff voting would be the key to voting for who you really want without penalizing your 2nd or 3rd choice.

[Wetzelbill]

5. I saw that, it got me thinking about this topic

You inspired me. Well, the Bill Nelsons of the world inspired me I guess. :) But he is better than a repub...... never mind.

[stevedeshazer]

4. Yes,and well said.

The lesser of two evils thing gets really old.

[Jackson4Gore]

7. You sound like Ralph Nader

I don't agree with you. I would much rather have Joe Biden or Lieberman in office than someone like Rick Santorum or Bill Frist. Although you don't agree with the Joes on Iraq, they still are Democrats. They have a strong record on a women's right to choose, civil rights, economic policy, and other Democratic core values--none of which the Republican party embraces. I don't think that kind of talk is productive.

Remember, we are the party of free speech and many beliefs. Please respect everyone's opinion, because deep down all of us Democrat have key values which connect us.

[Wetzelbill]

10. Never said I don't vote for them...I do

However, our party can do better. Our country can do better. Of course, I'd take the Joes over Santorum or Frist. I never mentioned Iraq, but I agree a little with what Biden says, only because it's better than what Bush, Cheney or Rumsfeld is saying.

What I'm talking about is selling our soul to big business. Biden, for example, voted for the Bankruptcy bill. Leiberman talks up Bush's tax cuts. Those guys are better than the other side. But, they are not anything special.

Don't sound like Nader at all. I just believe in good policy.

[SteppingRazor]

13. I definitely understand where you're coming from.

It's not as though we don't vote Democrat -- we do -- but many of us find ourselves holding our noses doing it.

How fucking long, oh Lord, how long? How long do we have to wait until a reasonably bright, well-intentioned, honorable man who understands and cares about the plight of us average Americans enters the White House? This lesser-of-two-evils game has now been played every four years throughout my entire lifetime, like some nightmarish Olympic Games. How long do we wander in the desert, and who gets us to the promised land?
I think the question is still unanswered, because even the best candidates we have for 2008 are merely the best thing we have.

[struggle4progress]

8. 1. Choose the worst troglodyte. 2. Pick him/her off -- just make sure ..

.. that whoever replaces the troglodyte is at least marginally better. 3. Rinse and repeat

I know it's not exciting. Most of the time it isn't even that much fun. But winning is better than losing, and small entries in the black are almost always to be preferred to entries in the red.

"I couldn't get everything I wanted, so I quit" is a recipe for losing today, tomorrow, and forever. If you really can elect progressives, do. If you can't, agitate for progressive issues between elections -- and work in election seasons to replace the worst clowns.

[LittleClarkie]

9. That's why I want Kerry over someone like Warner

who is only attractive to folks because he's a conservative Southern Governor. Ooooh, just like Bubba. We shall win with him.

Blah.

[CTLawGuy]

11. but Kerry's only attractive because he served in Vietnam

is that better? :shrug:

[sandnsea]

14. His record means nothing?

His 20 year record? The one that's more liberal than Howard Dean's, and actually gave Dean the SCHIP program to help provide health care to all the children in Vermont?

[CTLawGuy]

17. you mean his record which he completely ignored and

essentially disavowed during the campaign?

Maybe I would have liked THAT John Kerry.

[LittleClarkie]

15. Should there be sarcasm dripping?

He has a progressive voting record on most issues. He is not "just like a Republican." I certainly find him more attractive for reasons OTHER than "he served in Vietnam."

[CTLawGuy]

16. what happened with the important issues?

Iraq? voted to allow bush to invade.

tax cuts? supports them (well, some of them) despite voting against them.

patriot act? voted for it (I know everyone else did too, so save your breath)

[LittleClarkie]

18. Which tax cuts

Let see, he'd say:

Tax breaks for the poor,

Leave taxes along for the middle,

And repeal the tax breaks for the rich.

Problem?

[CTLawGuy]

23. what federal taxes do poor people pay?

wouldn't it be better to give them health insurance? and what about a good school for their children to go to?

But I guess less than $100 in tax breaks must be so much better :eyes:

the idea that tax cuts are better for the poor than social programs is, sad to say it, a republican idea.

[LittleClarkie]

24. Oh sure baby

that's why he's wandering around trying to get support for Kids First Act, and get health care for kids, because he's just not into health insurance or anything. S. 114 by the way, in case you feel like giving someone a call regarding it. There's a corresponding House bill, but I don't remember its number off hand. But Conyers and Waxman are on board there.

Perhaps someone should let them know they support a Repub in disguise. Obviously they've been duped.

Uh huh.

[CTLawGuy]

25. i didn't say kerry was a repub in disguise

and don't call me "baby".


I think his openness to republican ideas stems from trying to appeal across the aisle and be "electable."

problem is, that strategy is not productive.

[LittleClarkie]

26. No, he's always done that, all the way back to balancing the budget

tootz.

[CTLawGuy]

28. well I guess only some of the time

does it result in thousands of needless deaths.

[sandnsea]

21. How does this help?

I can't for the life of me figure out what people like you think you're accomplishing. I really can't. Unless your real plan is to destroy the Democratic Party, you're doing a good job of that.

[CTLawGuy]

22. what, by being honest about my feelings/

I dont see how point out what someone is doing wrong is hurtful.

If you criticize your children for behaving immorally, do you hate them? are you trying to hurt them?

I'm not going to be silent when Democrats are wrong, because I want them to be right, and they can't know what we believe is right unless we say something.

If a Democrat votes to enable an illegal war, I'm going to be upset.

If a Democrat believes irresponsible tax cuts, even for only the middle class, are better than a balanced budget and health care for all, I'm going to say so.

If a Democrat runs a flat, listless campaign, I'm going to say so, because I want them to change, I want them to get better.

I'm not trying to destroy the Democratic Party.

The best way to do that is to allow the DLC henchmen to continue on the path to bland, spineless centrism - to let control of the party slip from the hands of the ordinary Americans it ostensibly serves.

So, in short, I will say what I feel.

[sandnsea]

27. No you don't

You gain your self-esteem from being an anarchist. A Democrat could introduce legislation to set up a fund to house every person in America and you wouldn't know and wouldn't care. You think you're clever, but you're just another boring cynic. You're like a bystander who criticizes the way the fire department puts out the fire.

You're post here is nothing more than cut 'n paste talking points that could have been posted by a myriad of self-important DU cynics. It's not useful or even interesting.

[CTLawGuy]

29. wow, you make a lot of assumptions

I worked with ACT for kerry in New Hampshire. I'm hardly an anarchist. And four years before, I volunteered extensively for Al Gore, in both the primary and general in that state. So I don't think my Democratic credentials should be questioned.


Kerry was a bad choice, period. As a Dean person, I failed, along with my cohorts, to convince the people of Iowa that my guy was electable, and that's on us. But it doesn't mean Kerry was a good choice.

People wanted to vote against bush, but unlike us, most of them are concerned about who replaces him (ABB only goes so far). They weren't impressed with Kerry.

I wish he had beat bush. I don't want Bush in office. I supported Dean because I knew that we, as a party had to stand for something, had to distinguish ourselves from our enemy, in order to win the election. I knew that we couldn't have nominated someone who basically agreed with bush on some of the most important issues of our time, namely Iraq. (I'm sorry, saying "I could have run the war better" is not disagreement, because you accept the premise that the war itself was a good idea.)

Look, I don't believe Kerry really agreed with the war, and maybe he was under the spell of spineless traitor tom, but voting for the IWR really hampered his ability to distinguish himself on this hot button issue. Every time he criticized the war, people would rememeber that he voted for it, and say "hmm, he's flip flopping."

I'm sorry you're upset, maybe you don't want to believe you supported less than the best candidate, but telling critics to shut up and then insulting them is not a good idea.

[Totally Committed]

12. Yes. Sicker than you can imagine.

Zell Miller and Joe Lieberman are just the tip of this iceberg, too.

Ugh.

TC

[TankLV]

19. No, but I'm getting tired of saying "stop acting like a republican"

every time some asshole does something stupid/idiotic/wrong/hateful/bigoted/illegal/selfish, etc.

I say it loudly too!

[LiberalEconomist]

20. I am a Liberal

and not necessarily a Democrat. I tend to vote for Democratic because the party's platform mirrors liberalism most of the time.