2008: John McCain vs. Hillary Clinton = Who would win?

[jtb33]

I wonder who would win of the two... I tend to think that despite Hillary trying to move more towards the middle, she's already shown herself to be too far to the left for "middle America" while McCain is seen as being "the moderate" to most.

[charlyvi]

1. McCain.....people think he's a moderate.

He isn't, but people think he is. McCain will never get the nod, though. The xtian right hate him.

[one_true_leroy]

2. mccain... too many hate clinton

edit: plus, fewer will vote for a woman during a 'war'

i completely disagree with them (as i usually do).

[jmaier]

3. I'd have to lean toward McCain at the moment.

Frankly, if he remains healthy, wins the nomination and picks a credible VP (given his age), I think McCain would be very hard for anyone from the prospective Democratic field to beat. The best bet is to see him derailed in the nominating process.

Sadly, if enough Bush fatigue and fundie backlash occurs, it might smooth the road for his nomination. Ironically, a popular Bush (I know, I know ...) going into 2008 weakens McCain's play.

[karynnj]

26. Oddly one person who might be able to help Hillary

probably behind the scenes is Kerry. On the POW/MIA committee, Kerry from McCain's own account spent a lot of energy calming down McCain so that the committee could succeed. McCain has a major problem with his temper.

[Sanity Claws]

4. I think a lot depends on what happens in the next two years.

If Bush gets impeached, I think people may get fed up with the label "republican" and not vote for anyone with that label. Also, if the economy grows worse, people may want to relive the good days under Clinton by electing the other CLinton.
I think there are too many variables to offer any real insightful opinion on this matter.

[MercutioATC]

5. McCain

Hillary is NOT an option if we want to win.

[eallen]

6. McCain. Hillary is unelectable.

The states she would carry would be a proper subset of the ones Kerry won.

[Clark2008]

35. And she might even lose Pennsylvania on top of that.

eom

[MsUnderstood]

7. America will win

Anybody but Bush, part two!

[caledesi]

8. McCain...hands down. nt

[Dawgs]

9. I think Clark could win against McCain...

McCain is boring, and it would be hard to attack Clark.

[Clarkie1]

34. Oh, they'll attack Clark.

But McCain's no match for the General. :-)

[tenshi816]

49. Ain't that the truth! n/t

[stray cat]

10. I don't think McCain can win the rep. primary

However, if he does I think he would beat Hillary. McCain appeals to moderates and Hillary would serve to mobilize the radical republican base who otherwise would not be enthusiastic about McCain.

[rabid_nerd]

11. McCain

easy

[SteppingRazor]

12. McCain

No doubt at all.

[flashsmith]

13. McCain

Hillary ain't no Bill Clinton.

[jobycom]

14. Clinton would win, especially in a fist fight.

[FrenchieCat]

20. What about a Pie fight?

Now there, the winner would most likely be Hillary!

But in a real election, McCain takes it.

[jobycom]

24. Nope. Hillary would win in a real election, too. McCain's too damaged

and too smarmy. Nobody elects lapdogs without a shred of honor. Hillary looks like she's speaking her mind, McCain looks like he's nodding like a bobblehead doll. He's unelectable.

[FrenchieCat]

31. damage must be in the eye of the beholder....

and I think a majority would be beholding as Hillary being more damaged than McCain.

Sorry....I just like to keep it real!

[jobycom]

32. I hear you, but you're overestimating

the damage. Reagan in 1980 had a far worse reputation than Hillary, and he won. Bush Daddy, too, in 1988. In 1992, Clinton was on tabloids with pictures of four women in the same bed (faked, but still there) while he was on Time Magazine with a reverse negative photo and the title "Why doesn't America trust this man?" At the time he was a distant third in the polls to Bush and Ross Perot, of all people, and the media were speculating on how the Democratic Party had gone the way of the Whigs and what the key points in its death were.

Hillary's image problem is that she's seen as ambituous, tough and bitchy--all good qualities for a leader. There's a strong attack undercurrent from the third of Americans who wouldn't vote for her anyway that accuses of her of being gay, of having bad morals, of freeing murdering Black Panthers, etc. And there's a dislike of her amongst her own party's left because she's too moderate to conservative for our taste (a fair claim). The perceptions of neither of those groups is fatal to her--the left fringe rarely picks the Democratic nominee (sadly), and the right fringe of the Republicans won't vote for her anyway, and are generally seen as extremists by the mainstream.

The upside of her image is that every single human being in America knows her name, and they know enough of her reputation to know she's running for president. Her name is mentioned so often that people assume she's capable of the job, and that puts her ahead of every other candidate in either party right now. The rest of her reputation is all rumors. Any decent politician with a skillful staff can turn her type of reputation to her benefit in three years. Most politicians would dream of having the type of "damage" she has.

Couple that with the facts that she is the best fundraiser in the party now, the economy is bad, and the war is seen as a mistake, and that the way things are going Bush's problems in Afghanistan and Iraq are going to be worse by then. I gaurantee you that right now McCain would not pick McCain in this little poll if he were being honest.

[iwantmycountryback]

15. If McCain in the Repub nominee (which I doubt)

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a third-party reich-wing Christian nominated. Some character like Falwell or something that would siphon votes from McCain, which would help Hillary. I really don't see McCain being the nominee though, the right will do everything in their power to prevent it from happening.

[ComerPerro]

16. McCain, in a walk

Dems might vote for McCain, but no Repub will ever vote for Hillary Clinton.

[zinndependence]

17. McCain....without a doubt

[DoveTurnedHawk]

18. McCain Would Win That Matchup

In a walk, sadly.

DTH

[hedda_foil]

19. McCain.

Most people think he's a moderate, as you say, and Hillary as a flaming liberal, though she's right of center and always has been.

[Totally Committed]

21. McCain...

The whole campaign would be just a rehash of the Clinton Impeachment (comeplete with the Monica ropeline video once an hour), and the Clinton marriage, and Whitewater, and well... you know.

Lord, spare us. I hope the Democrats are smart enough not to go there just yet. After the next elected Democratic President has his/er 2 terms, they'll be able to run Hillary and it won't be a bloodbath.

McCain wins if they put her against him on'08.

TC

[jonnyblitz]

22. McCain for sure. nt

[lojasmo]

23. Hillary will lose in the generals...no matter what.

Just as I predicted Kerry would.

Bank on it, folks.

[Nothing Without Hope]

25. McCain - and that's what the GOP is counting on. They WANT Hillary

as the Dem candidate and they have already launched a media lionization of McCain:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1818584
Thread title: Framing for the presidency: TV Movie is pure pro-McCain propaganda

McCain is being retooled as Mr. Clean, to offset the bad reps of the Bushies. They're painting him as opposite from them in every way.

[dave502d]

27. McCain and McCain will be all-most as bad as cuckoobanana.n/t

[CityDem]

28. McCain would win

If he could win the repuke primary, McCain will be hard to beat. He does have a big temper and if it were somehow exposed, it could cost him the election. And while many think McCain is moderate (due to campaign finance reform), he is almost as conservative as AWOL.

[zulchzulu]

29. Diebold WILL win...unless we get off our ass and petition to change

Of course, McCain would win...but any Repug will win unless we get going...

[Canuckistanian]

30. McCain... Hillary is damaged goods to both sides

For different reasons, of course.

[Clarkie1]

33. McCain...military experience in time of war trumps everything else. n/t

Edit:

And before you say, "but what about Kerry?" the explanation for 2004 (well, beyond fraud perhaps) is that Bush had "military experience" in the eyes of the sheeple post-9/11 as Commmander in Chief.

[Arkana]

36. I'd vote Hillary, but I think McCain would win, sadly.

He's perceived by too many to be the "moderate", and Hillary has just as many detractors as she does admirers.

[brentspeak]

37. No offense, but I think we should concentrate on 2006

That's next year.

[IChing]

39. Stalin or Hitler who would you vote for.

I'm sick of these discussions
work for 2006 or face the consequence of living in fantasy.

[Wabbajack]

44. Election 2008 started

the minute Kerry gave up. Period.

[LandOLincoln]

47. No offense, but some of us are able

to walk and chew gum at the same time.

[windbreeze]

38. McCain/Hillary....

Good question...That particular choice, might be the start of a viable 3rd party...There was a time I would have voted for McCain....but not any more...He is Bush lite, and has definite Republican ideas about things...and I think this country is going to be mighty sick of Bush and his ilk, by the time that election rolls around...
Hillary?...Well, I am not going to diss any Democrats...but...WE, this country, are not ready for her, or for a woman Pres., no matter who, or what female of the gender might get the nod...and YES, I do think a woman could run this country as well as a man, IF not better...but again there's that but...
Time will tell, in any case...
windbreeze

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bemildred]

41. The oligarchy wins, we lose, either way. nt

[tritsofme]

42. If McCain could actually get the nomination, he'd win in a landslide.

But getting the nomination is the hard part, the fundies hate him.

Barring a far right third party candidate, I don't see any way the electoral math works to stop McCain.

He would do considerably better than Bush in the EC, probably taking Michigan, Minnesota, NH, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and put a host of other "blue" states into contention.

[darkism]

43. McCain. Even I don't like Hillary.

And would vote 3rd party to avoid having to choose between two right-wingers.

[Ell09]

45. Hillary would win

because it wouldn't be a "heads up" battle. If McCain were to win the Republican nomination, I think you'd see the religious right run their own candidate. Someone (Falwell, Pat Robertson or one of their lackeys) would run under an anti-abortion, anti-gay, pro-prayer in schools agenda.

Hillary gets 43-45% McCain gets 35-40% and the Religious candidate takes 15-23%.

Something like this will eventually happen, and I think a McCain nomination would be the first step. Hillary isn't my favorite candidate and you can put virtually any Dem in to this race and get the same result.

[tenshi816]

50. Y'know, I'd almost like to see the Religious Right

run their own candidate, just to watch them marginalize themselves and further demonstrate how crazy and out of touch they really are. It would also give a good indication of just how many people vote solely on the RW religious agenda.

OTOH, once they lost the election, they'd be boo-hooing about being discriminated against because they're conservative Christians (when in reality it would be because they're collectively insane), and who wants to listen to that?

[formernaderite]

61. I think you'd see a true left candidate emerge as well...

I for one could not vote for Hillary.

[Stockholm]

46. Mrs. Clinton of course

McCain is a republican...

[rhett o rick]

56. Who would vote for Hillary? Not any Republicans and not all Demos nt

[tenshi816]

48. McCain. Hillary could never carry the south. n/t

[bowens43]

51. McCain easily.

[conservdem]

52. McCain.

[noonwitch]

53. McCain, although I would vote for Hillary

The white male vote would go to McCain and he'd probably split the soccer mom vote with her.

[Gyre]

54. McCain

his acceptance would shred solidarity w/in the dem ranks if Hillary was their nominee.

Gyre

[rhett o rick]

55. Certainly not the American people nt

[ArkDem]

57. Hillary.

[renaissanceguy]

58. Be careful who you label "middle America."

The neocon fascists like Joe Scarborough call themselves "middle America," but ARE they? NO!

Name ONE piece of legislation that Clinton voted on that would make her "too liberal." The Iraq war? Oops, she voted FOR that. Bankruptcy reform? Whoops, she missed that vote.

[kenny blankenship]

59. McCain, and he could do it from his hospital bed

just being candid.

[Donna Zen]

60. McCain

IMHO:

The current landscape:

republican base larger than the Democratic base

corporate vs religious vs the middle

^^^^^^^

There are some Democrats who would not energize the religious base<-------that is their voting base of about 26 plus %. That base can be suppressed or split given a perceived moderate at the top of the Democratic ticket. I say perceived, because the gatekeepers of the MSM will still be in control of that in 2008.

Currently, we believe that the Christian-right will not accept McCain, but that is 1) a power play going on inside their party 2) can easily be changed. The power play is the Christian-right holding out for policy and ideological direction with whomever is the nominee, but with a few high profile visits to the right churches, and an acceptable VP choice, if the republicans chose McCain, he will be "saved." McCain is ideologically right-wing, without the label. If anything, the corporate powers might be split since the Clintons are very good to those powers. The corporation have the money but are a small % of voters.

By choosing Clinton, the Democrats give the republicans the "green light" to run with McCain. Few, if any other Democrat, can insure the solidification of the Christian right, as can the name Clinton.

Bayh would split their base. Clark would completely fracture their base. True, those candidates would offend part of our far-left flank, but in the case of Clark, I would hope that the left would at least take some time to consider him, and do some reading beyond the usual suspects.

For those who continually point out that Clark's credentials would be attacked by the right, that is true. Nevertheless, Clark's supporters do watch the boards of the right. When the memes heat up, there are voices on those boards who are normally anti-Dem, who refuse to permit a man who took four bullets and rappelled down a mountain under fire to save comrades, to be smeared. There is a limit to how many rotten things the right can spew about a Southern-four-star-poorboy-makes-good success story. Besides, he talks their talk which they will increasingly be made aware of on their very own network: fox.

Note:I am working on '06. This conversation does not negate the ability to do that.

[McCamy Taylor]

62. America.

[cyn2]

63. McCain, according to a poll I saw a couple of weeks ago

Zogby America Poll. June 20-22, 2005. Nationwide

"If the election for president of the United States were held today and the candidates were Republican John McCain and Democrat , for whom would you vote?" N=1,000 likely voters, MoE ± 3.2
6/20-22/05

John McCain 54

Hillary Clinton 35

Unsure 11

http://www.pollingreport.com/2008.htm

[djg21]

64. McCain

Hillary can never win. She should remain a senator where she can matter.

[Can o Beans]

65. Ditka. Ditka by 4.

Sorry, had to...