Is Kerry a Leader or Follower?

[pnziii]

Why do the Kerry faithful always defend Kerry with "so did other Democrats"
That's like the Freepers defending Bush by saying "Clinton thought Saddam had WMD's"

What you're telling me is it's ok Kerry voted for the wrong stuff because other Dems made the same mistake.

They claim Kerry had to vote for the war because others did and it would make him look weak on defense.

Well I guess Kerry would jump off a cliff if we could get the other Dems to do it first.

I want a LEADER not a follower!!!!!!

[Melodybe]

1. Kerry is a follower, he didn't start attacking Bu$h until he saw it workin

for Dean.

[Sensitivity]

16. Please check the record. It is just the opposite. Dean was an

an unknown when Kerry was attacking and taking arrows from
repubs.

Also, Don't forget that Kerry was recovering from
an operation for a while.

[alcuno]

24. Absolutely, Melodybe. He played follow the leader.

I had been complaining for months about Kerry's tortuous use of the English language. At least he showed enough brains to inculcate the leader's as his own. It still makes me sick when he starts every third sentence with the words "I believe..." An orator he is not.

[blm]

39. Conason disagrees with you. Read this from August 2002.

Kerry Shows Courage In Challenging Bush
Thursday, August 8, 2002 By: Joe Conason

New York Observer
>>>>>>>
But it was John Kerry who delivered the most interesting, substantive and challenging message. His subject was George W. Bush's shortcomings as a world leader.

The New York Times reported that Mr. Kerry "offered a long attack on Mr. Bush's foreign policy," although the paper gave short shrift to the details in the Senator''s speech. What he began to articulate was a Democratic critique of this administration''s blunt and myopic unilateralism, and a vision that restores international alliances to the center of American diplomacy.

>>>>>>>
There is, however, at least one benefit for Mr. Kerry in speaking out on those faraway places and problems. While his rivals sound as if they''re campaigning for the offices they already occupy, he sounds as if he is running for President.

>>>>>>>
Whether Mr. Kerry can engage the electorate in a discussion of America''s global responsibilities is far from certain. His own dispassionate style may hinder him. Yet he deserves great credit for reclaiming international leadership for his party when others cannot or will not.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Back then, how did Dean handle questions about Kerry's attacks on Bush when Russert showed clips of Kerry on MTP?


 MR. RUSSERT: Do you believe the military operation in Afghanistan has been successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: Yes, I do, and I support the president in that military operation.
       
       MR. RUSSERT: The battle of Tora Bora was successful?
       
       GOV. DEAN: I’ve seen others criticize the president. I think it’s very easy to second-guess the
       commander-in-chief at a time of war. I don’t choose to engage in doing that.

[buckeye1]

2. So.

Vote Clark 34 years of leadership. No wimpers.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

3. Need you ask? After the IWR cave in?

But, he's "electable", don't you know? What a laugh.

[Lobo_13]

37. If you want the same old, same old

Vote for Kerry.

He's so electable he had to mortgage his house to stay in the race. What's next, the antiques?

He's just another sleazy politician that just tells you what you want to hear, regardless of reality.

I'd vote for Lieberman before I voted for Kerry. At least Lieberman is a consistent Republican.

[LBJBestEver]

4. Cool. Vote for Bush.

[GalleryGod]

15. Please, Vote for the WARmonger Bush, then

By all means-do that.

[JI7]

5. vote kucinich then

he led in the fight to vote against iwr. it still passed, but he still led the fight against it. he protested the war. attended anti war protests and spoke out against the war. he calls for full repeal of the patriot act. don't know any other candidate who wants to get rid of it entirely.

[JohnKleeb]

14. Thats what I call a leader

I support Kerry and Kucinich equally, sounds strange but I like em both.

[JI7]

18. what is interesting is

whenever i see the complaints about kerry i always think why these people aren't supporting kucinich. as kucinich is the only one who seems to be doing what they complain kerry is not doing.

[JohnKleeb]

25. unelectable blah

Thats why. I support Kerry now because its now certain to me DK wont get it :(, and Kerry :) fits my all around issues pretty nicely too. I have one issue with Kerry and thats IWR, I never pounded on him for it though that much when I supported DK only because I realized JK like all the "top tier" candiates was for a middle ground, not totally against the war in Iraq and not totally for. Kerry's early education plan I like. Kerry is good, we could get a lot of progressive policies in a Kerry admin, and of course DK would be best but I like them both best.

[GalleryGod]

23. Hey,J..Sounds like somebodys typing from HQ's

:hangover:

[in_cog_ni_to]

6. He's a follower.

He can spin his IWR and Patriot Act vote any way he wants to. It can never negate the fact that:

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

He's a member of the Skull and Bones.

He voted FOR the IWR.

He voted for "The Patriot Act.

[patricia92243]

7. Senators/ congressmen have to be followers - they follow the president or

else.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

11. "or else" what? 23 senators didn't "follow the president".

[Gin]

42. or else what?

gin

[Upfront]

32. Oh

I don't think Democrats should be following B###. I admit, Kerry seems to though. Hmmm, maybe the same fat cats that own B*** own kerry.

[Meldread]

8. I am concerned about this as well.

I really wish Kerry would address it openly and give a GOOD explanation to why he did it. Not excuses. He should even apologize to the American electorate for making the horrible choices he made. Not only on his vote to go to Iraq.

[cal04]

22. Newsweek skull and bones origin?

Not sure how reliable this is, found on Democracy now



ALEXANDRA ROBBINS: There are a slew who are members of Skull and Bones, and some of them are biased. Some of them are not. Dana Milbank of the "Washington Post" is certainly not a biased journalist. He doesn't hold allegiance to his Skull and Bones connections, which is nice. There are others who follow their profession more than the society, but you will get people in Skull and Bones who favor Skull and Bones. That's the point of the group.

AMY GOODMAN: Who are the other reporters who are Skull and Bones?

ALEXANDRA ROBBINS: There's a list of them going back to Henry Lucent in New Haven. There are the founders of "Time" magazine. "Time" and "Newsweek" have Skull and Bones origins, which is kind of strange.
AMY GOODMAN: Does it matter to Skull and Bones who wins this presidential race?

ALEXANDRA ROBBINS: No. That's a good question and one that I asked many Bonesmen and the way they describe it is a win-win situation. As long as there's a Bonesman in the White House there are going to be many more Bonesmen in the administration.

AMY GOODMAN: I want to thank you very much for joining us. Alexandra Robbins has been our guest. Her book is "Secrets of the Tomb: Skull and Bones, The Ivy League and the Hidden Paths of Power.” Alexandra Robbins, a member of another Yale secret society, or at least she was, and also worked for the "New Yorker" magazine among other publications.

[THUNDER HANDS]

9. you could always ask Ted Kennedy to run

I mean, but you'd like to win this election, right?

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

10. Your only alternative is to vote for Bush

So go ahead. I'll take our man Kerry.

[sandnsea]

12. 73 posts, interesting thought

They might vote for Bush.

Probably get in trouble for that, oh well.

[GalleryGod]

19. Watch it S&S ! Moderator nailed me for loose talk like that

:spank: my college prof's butt!

But-of course,my Kerry friend:pals: it was a point well taken.

Your man in the Faculty lounge:donut: ,
GG:smoke:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. The alternative is to vote against both of them and the war.

Which I'll do if it comes down to Bush vs Kerry.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

33. Excellent, that will accomplish a lot

I guess Bush isn't so bad after all.

[Forkboy]

50. Not my only alternative

though I'm sure you'll see it that way.

Too bad I really dont give a shit anymore....

[creativelcro]

17. Neither... He's power hungry, that's all...

[BeatleBoot]

20. And the Kerry train kept a-rollin' all night long....

and the Kerry train kept a-rollin' all night long...

chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..
chuggity...chuggity...chuggity..chuggity..chuggity...chuggity...chug..

All Aboard!

[jpgpenn]

21. Follower! and pretender and...

a person willing to say and do anything for a vote!

[Jacobin]

26. His leadership is reminiscent of a wheelbarrow

[bigwillq]

27. Kerry is a follower

He's following Ted Kennedy's every move and it just may get JK in the white house


EDIT: Spelling

[otohara]

28. This AM on CBS - Kerry Sounded Like Dean

sorry Kerry folks, I like him and would be thrilled if he were the next president, but I noticed today that many of the things he said, were very close to what Dean has been saying for over a year.

Which is Okay, because Dean brought out the spine in Kerry and others. Just didnt' figure I would hear any of them say almost word for word Dr. Dean's words.

[Lobo_13]

41. He's just acting like Dean

to get elected. If he gets the nom, you can expect that newly found spine to slither right back into whatever hole it came out of.

[Octafish]

46. Kerry's backbone was good enough to lead in combat.

Your guy's back was good enough to lead the apres-ski boozefest.

[BeatleBoot]

48. Yeaaaaaaarrrrrrrghhhh!

Great Post! Thank you.

[Spiderm0n]

29. Kerry will be like Clinton - take a poll to decide what color tie to wear.

[oasis]

49. Consensus is bad for democracy.

:eyes:

[Upfront]

30. Follows The Polls

He trys to be on the side of the issue that most people favor. All the candidates are following Deans lead and saying things Dean said first. I will vote for Kerry if it comes down to him or B***, but it is a sure loser, and the worst vote I will ever cast.

[blm]

31. Question for YOU. Ever heard of BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning?

Ever hear of the illegal wars in Central America? Kerry investigated and EXPOSED Reagan and Bush on those illegal actions.

Did you know that Kerry was the FIRST Senator to advocate for gays legislatively in 1985... BEFORE anyone ever stood up for them? Did you know he advocated for gays to serve openly in the military?

Did you know that most of the Dem powerstructure was AGAINST him on all those efforts mentioned?

[Upfront]

34. I know How He votes

Which leads me to not support him. Big mistake to give Kerry our banner.

[blm]

35. His votes and record are closest to Wellstone's of all the candidates.

You have a problem with a lifetime liberal rating?

[worldgonekrazy]

40. Wellstone had the courage to vote against the IWR

Frankly I am offended that you have equated the two men. Wellstone was far more a mensch than Kerry could ever hope to be.

[blm]

44. I'm offended you don't know how close their records are and how often

they worked together.

If you know Wellstone as you claim, then you would KNOW that Kerry's record is closest to Wellstone's of ALL the candidates.

[mzmolly]

36. Follower for sure!

:kick:

[worldgonekrazy]

38. Amen. Kerry is a "follower", I've never heard him summed up better

He lacks the courage to be out front on things. See the IWR and Patriot Act votes for example.

[creativelcro]

43. Only "proof" of courage is his war thing... other context other times..

[Octafish]

45. Do some homework BEFORE you smear.

Like blm said, GOOGLE "BCCI" and John Kerry. He was almost alone in the Senate going after the BFEE. Ask if you don't know what that means.



Kerry in 1992 presided over a Senate probe of the Bank of Credit and Commerce International.
The inquiry had led him to call 84-year-old Clark Clifford to testify,
angering fellow Democrats.

SOURCE: Boston Globe

[milkyway]

47. Kerry is a follower. Howard Dean is his leader. nt