When did we get so many Kerry supporters?

[Melodybe]

Have y'all been hiding in the wood work, did you just decide to start speaking up now?

I can name about 10 posters that were Kerry people before, now the board is full of them.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigtree]

2. Check my self financed non-commercial site listed on my profile

If you think it represents the GOP so be it. But don't slander posters because they might disagree with you.

[blm]

5. Not so funny, Cronus. You have something against the one man who exposed

more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history?

You think you know so much about the BFEE...well, how do you think you they were discovered? Almost everything we know today is based on KERRY'S investigations and hard work.

Your premise is also demonstrably false, as the media worked to kill Kerry's candidacy early by declaring it dead for months and drying up his fundraising which generated big laughs here at DU by many in the Dean camp.

Don't Tread on Me, indeed.

[bicentennial_baby]

10. No offense

but your spiel is getting old, imho.

[blm]

19. Too bad. Truth must be told. Truth doesn't change.

Sorry if it's inconvenient for some.

It seems that the lies about Kerry want to have a longer shelf life than the truth. I'm not going to let that happen.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Did Kerry get Reagan impeached, or Poppy Bush?

Kerry did only what was needed to make him look good, but when it came to substantive deeds, Kerry is AWOL.

[blm]

38. Wrong. The Dem powerstructure turned on Kerry and you know it.

Can you prove with a link that BCCI and IranContra did NOT expose the Reagan and Bush illegal activities?

Was Kerry expected to TRY the cases, too? Aren't you happy for history's sake that Kerry's work prompted an Independent Counsel?

Would you have even HEARD of Ollie North if Kerry hadn't uncovered him?

[IndianaGreen]

40. Kerry did not uncover Ollie North

The Iran-Contra story began to unravel with the capture of CIA-contract pilot Eugene Hasenfuss.

The same terrorists involved in Iran-Contra are now serving openly in the government: Otto Reich, John Negroponte. Where is Kerry at? Is Kerry fighting to get these guys in jail? No! Kerry got to punch his ticket and pad his resume. That's all you will get from Kerry!

Don't get me started on Kerry's silence about the criminal invasion of Panama!

REICH-POSADA-BOSCH

The Axis of Deceit
From the pages of Granma International newspaper

April 5, 2002

Reich’s collaboration with arch-terrorist Luis Posada Carriles was maintained until the Ilopango operation was exposed in October 1986, when a light aircraft belonging to the CIA was shot down. The pilot, Eugene Hasenfuss, not only denounced the drug trafficking operation, but also identified Félix Rodríguez and Luis Posada Carriles, the latter a fugitive from Venezuelan justice.

http://www.freethefive.org/axisofdeceit.cfm

[Forkboy]

52. We can add the innocents killed in Panama

with the ones killed in Iraq.

[blm]

72. REAL reporter, Robert Parry, would disagree.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=11956&forum=DCForumID61&archive=yes

Sample:
126. Parry on efforts to discredit and kill an investigation
into Iran-Contra and BCCI...and now, it seems to me, into funding for terrorists of the Muslim persuasion... for the record...

I would think that Robert Parry, one of the most important investigative reporters working on Iran-Contra, is a reputable source for the way the investigation played out.
a few quotes from Lost History-

...press inquiries and Sen. Kerry's investigation caused other worries...
(while Ollie North and Poindexter and William Weld (put in charge of, as assistant ag, of criminal investigations)
worked to discredit witnesses who could blow the lid off the US govts funding of drug dealers, active, via CIA-operated air lifts of drugs into the US, and so on...) p112, 117,
Parry says that Blum (also quoted from the investigation as related to the current-- in the LBN thread on Spies/UK/current BCCI questions--)
Weld, while in the justice dept, blocked serious efforts to get information, even tho Kerry was able to get bipartisan support for an investigation-- via Lugar and Pell. p118
Kerry continued to try to prod the justice dept., using a statement from a "whistle-blowing" female FBI informant who was promptly discredited on...let's say..spurious grounds, even tho her statement did play out and she passed a polygraph... p119 & 124
the discrepancies in her testimony which led Weld to reject her were minor points, as in when she first talked to the FBI.
in addition, Eugene Hasenfus, onetime CIA cargo handler whose plane was shot down by the Sandinistas, said he had been working for the CIA, and the operation had close ties to then vp George Bush.
Elliot Abrams tried to smear Hasenfus' statement by claiming no one named Max Gomez, a person Hasenfus named, existed. p123
in fact, Abrams surely knew that "gomez" existed. that was the cover name for Felix Rodriquez, a Cuban-American CIA veteran placed in Central America by Bush's office.
Lugar, at the time, wrote about the Justice dept's unwillingness to provide information...
...in 1986, Weld edited a letter to Kerry denying federal protection to Palacio, after she had passed a polygraph, and after her further statements as an eye-wtiness to CIA pilots loading cocaine onto CIA-owned transport planes in Columbia...
that person, named Sawyer, corroborated Palacio's statements unwittingly by his plane's logs... p124
Parry says that after this, the Reagan administration went into overdrive to kill the investigation, luring the press into a question of whether or not Reagan authorized Iran-contra.
p131
(which seems to me, in retrospect, to be an anwerable question now, based upon Casey's request to exempt the CIA from answering questions about drug smuggling only three months after the contra operation started...but I digress...) p 202
...democrats, according to Parry (and he does not include Kerry since Kerry was the one leading an investigation into all this, remember...
chose not to pursue Reagan b/c he had only two years left in his term and with the mainstream press refusing to look at their own complicity in burying the whole story... including the NYTimes' Keith Schneider who wrote a dismissive story about Kerry's investigation...Schneider's info was false, according to Parry, and clearly contradicted the public record. p 133
also remember that Dick Cheney was the ranking house republican on the congressional Iran-Contra committee...a man who isn't exactly known for his willingness to support transparency in the executive branches' power grabs...
...when the congressional Iran-contra committee wrote its final report, the republicans fought to exclude information and had leverage b/c three republican moderate had to sign off on the findings...
Kerry and the entire investigation was smeared with the tag "nutty conspiracy theory."
p 138 and more...  

[WhoCountsTheVotes]

58. Kerry IS the Dem power structure

and you know it!

[dax]

59. Of course Kerry knows about the BFEE, he is from Skull and Bones like them

Don't try to pretend that Kerry is some kind of clean crusader, if he gets the nomination it will be the first time two of the Skull and Bones society have faced off - sure to guarantee there will not be any real change in govt by for and to benefit moneyed interests and power... he may have some good positions during the campaign but don't kid yourself that he is not part of the same empire...

[AntiCoup2K4]

7. Right idea, wrong initials.

It's that faction of "Democrats" who are Determined to Lose Continuously.

[liberalnurse]

11. Thats the most accurate statement I've seen

here at DU since November, 2003. :yourock:

[worldgonekrazy]

24. Indeed, first for Clark, now for Kerry

I remember the days when this board was solidly Dean country. That had to be disrupted of course, lest the people have their voice heard for a change.

[smirkymonkey]

3. I have been a Kerry supporter since before

he announced his candidacy and have never wavered. Just not very vocal about it I guess - I just thought, may the best candidate get the nomination, but I am not going to get involved in any candidate bashing.

In fact, I predicted his resurgence months ago when everyone thought he was out of the running (and I have witnesses to my prediciton). I knew he would pull through. I still think he will get the nomination, but if not, I will support whoever does wholeheartedly. Lieberman would be a tough call, however.

Go Kerry/Edwards!!

[sandnsea]

4. New Clark supporters too

I've been noticing quite a few who are stirring up the pot quite a bit too. It is really interesting.

[kstewart33]

9. After the events of the last week, 3 candidates have moved

Ahead--Kerry, Clark, and Edwards. They are all solid. I gave Dean the benefit of the doubt, but no more. It's not the screech that did it, but his behavior thereafter.

With Kerry, Clark or Edwards, I feel confident that there will be no embarrassing gaffes, retractions, and other nonsense. Clark has done splendidly for being in politics less than 6 months. Kerry is top notch. Edwards can communicate the best and gives the sense that he believes completely what he says. These guys are all solid.

If I voted today, I'd vote for Kerry. And I don't see that changing.

[bearfartinthewoods]

15. i think there is some name 'dropping' going on

all those screen names with 'dean' in them are being dropped for a change of heart.

[BeatleBoot]

6. I gave out 'Kerry for President" buttons

two Christmases ago.

[OKNancy]

8. I was wondering when someone would say this

just as the Dean supporters said the same thing about Clark supporters.

It's because Dean dominated the board so long, and then Clark came along and everyone was excited about him, and now Kerry is doing well so his supporters want to post more and they also actually may have been lurking more than posting.

Kerry people are happy and they want to post.

[sandnsea]

14. Some post, some stir

I'm always leary of the ones who seem to just stir. There aren't many, but I'm leary. A couple of Kerry people too.

[nightperson]

46. I'm curious,

what do you mean by "just stir"? What sort of behavior here by Kerry supporters makes you "leary"? I honestly hope if people think I for example am doing more harm than good they would tell me. Can't guarantee that it would get me to change, but I'd be interested anyway :P .

[sandnsea]

55. Defensive??

Hey, I didn't name names or point any fingers. I had one person in mind for my own reasons. Honestly, I haven't noticed your posts.
:-( Sorry.

There are a few new people around here who moved from congenial posters to agitators in the last two weeks or so though. It's been interesting to watch. I've never been must of a Rovian plant conspiracy theorist, but still, it's been interesting lately.

Nothing personal, truly.

[nightperson]

62. Thanks for the quick reply.

I was just curious if I missed something or somebody outlandish ("KKKerryKampaigner", etc.) recently. I didn't visit the board at all for a bunch of days last week, and this board churns pretty quickly. I didn't take offense at anything :) .

[POed_Ex_Repub]

16. I think that's a winning theory...

It's the "Yahoo effect". On the yahoo message boards, if there is good news for Bush it's wall to wall freepers, bad news and you have to practically drag them out from under their rocks to debate.

People like to see their candidate doing well, and when that happens, they are more apt to post.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

12. Because this is a Democratic site

But then that would be too obvious.

[Cocoa]

13. we just got the orders from Skull and Bones

the signal just got transmitted via the chips in our brains.

[JohnKleeb]

17. lol

or maybe some of us are like you and I cocoa, we switched, you were a Gep person if I recall, and I was a big Kucinich and still am. Personally, I am glad we got more people. I get along great with the other Kerry people, real friendly too, I posted on the kerry fourm and they noticed me immediatly and no I didnt use my name.

[Cocoa]

22. yep, I'm a convert

I'm a little surprised, I thought I was Gephardt or Kucinich, but after Iowa I'm sold on John Kerry.

[KFC]

18. LOL

I wondered where the hell that came from.

[bigtree]

20. hee hee

:tinfoilhat:

[nightperson]

21. Believe me or not,

I really thought Kerry would have an easier time of it, and so I didn't think I would have to do much for him until after his nomination (I have plenty of other stuff going on in my life besides politics). Right or wrong, my gut after all this time still whines to me that he is by far the strongest candidate we can present, and in a slight panic I've come here to help the dude out at the last minute. Hope in some small way I help him or at least help whip the Party into better shape to whup Bush, who has grown steadily more wack in my estimation. About the older Kerry posters, they've shown that quality can be more important than quantity, and anyway there have usually been far more Kerry people here than folks for Edwards, Gephardt, Sharpton, etc., right?

[IndianaGreen]

23. It is on the Kerry blog

to flood discussion boards with their endless chatter about how great their Skull & Bones candidate is.

[wal]

25. Kerry supporters

There was a great post at bartcop this weekend.
It was from Fred D., a W.W.2 vet who wrote that to earn a Bronze Star (as he did) you had to do your job no matter how scared you were.
Earning the Silver Star (as Kerry did) showed that he could get the job done, no matter what.
I've admired Sen. Kerry since his work for Vietnam vets in the 70's.
He also spoke movingly on behalf of the Vietnamese people, and against the war in Vietnam.
His honesty, integrity and courage have been an inspiration for a lot of people for a long time, so don't be surprised when he wins the Presidency.

Kerry / Kucinich in '04

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MaineDem]

28. That's one of the lowest things I've ever seen posted here.

Totally disgusting!

I'm so disappointed in many DUers lately.

[IndianaGreen]

37. Disgusting, but true!

Kerry was given a Silver Star for an action on February 28, 1969:

When Kerry's Patrol Craft Fast 94 received a B-40 rocket shot from shore, he beached his craft in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from a hole not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and fled.

The boat's machine gunner hit and wounded the fleeing Viet Cong as he darted behind a hootch. The twin .50s gunner also fired at the Viet Cong. He said he "laid 50 rounds" into the hootch before Kerry leaped from the boat and dashed in to administer a "coup de grace" to the wounded Viet Cong. Kerry returned with the B-40 rocket and launcher.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

John Kerry: The Chameleon Senator
By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
October-December 1996 Issue

Recently, Kerry became extremely defensive when David Warsh, an economics columnist for The Boston Globe, questioned the circumstances for which Kerry was awarded the Silver Star. Kerry, who was in a close re-election battle with Gov. William F. Weld, a Republican, quickly gathered his former crew from his Swift boat days to rebuff the "assault on his integrity."

According to the official citation accompanying the Silver Star for Kerry's actions on the waters of the Mekong Delta on February 28, 1969: "Kerry's craft received a B-40 rocket close aboard. Once again Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry ordered his units to charge the enemy positions. . . Patrol Craft Fast 94 then beached in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and fled. Without hesitation Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber." In an article printed in the October 21st and 28th 1996 edition of The New Yorker, Kerry was asked about the man he had killed.

"It was either going to be him or it was going to be us. It was that simple. I don't know why it wasn't us--I mean, to this day. He had a rocket pointed right at our boat. He stood up out of the hole, and none of us saw him until he was standing in front of us, aiming a rocket right at us, and, for whatever reason, he didn't pull the trigger--he turned and ran. He was shocked to see our boat right in front of him. If he'd pulled the trigger, we'd all be dead . . . I just won't talk about all of it. I don't and I can't. The things that probably really turn me I've never told anybody. Nobody would understand," Kerry said. In the column, Warsh quoted the Swift boat's former gunner, Tom Belodeau, as saying the Viet Cong soldier who Kerry chased "behind a hootch" and "finished off" actually had already been wounded by the gunner.

Warsh wrote that such a "coup de grace" would have been considered a war crime.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/story10.htm

[bigtree]

42. By Ted Sampley

The author has been a critic of the protests of John Kerry against the Vietnam war. By taking his insults at face value you ignore the incredible courage of John in defending his fellow soldiers and mates. Indeed the former crew from his Swift boat has defended him on this.

I would ask the poster what is it about John Kerry protesting Nixon's war that offends him?

See, I don't think you share the complete philosophy of Sampley and his minions. He once referred to five-year prisoner of war John McCain as a "Manchurian Candidate".

I think that you have used the trash spread by Sampley to further your attack on John, and that is unbelievably cynical and craven.
This post only serves to define you and the republican creep who has hounded John for years for his opposition to Nixon's bloody, illegal war.

[IndianaGreen]

44. Kerry did not defend his "fellow soldiers"

He may have defended his "fellow sailors"! This is a minor but significant point that is not lost on veterans or on those serving on active duty.

[bigtree]

53. get real

there were soldiers in that war.

Go on, preach to me about the military.

[bigtree]

29. This comment serves only to define . . .

. . . you.

[IndianaGreen]

43. And come November you are going to want me and others like me

to be on the side of your candidate when he goes against Bush.

I will be there despite the fact that Kerry will be joining Mondale and Dukakis in their place in history. That's when I will say "I told you so!"

[bigtree]

45. personally?

nt

[jfxgillis]

48. Oh whoop-dee-doo

So you spend the primary season spreading ridiculous slander about Kerry being a war criminal and a tentacle of the evil, conspiratorial Skull & Bones, slander which will come back to weaken Kerry in November,

THEN

you say you'll come back in November and support him? How gracious of you.

I got a better idea. Stop spreading the libel now and vote the hell for somebody else come November. I hear Nader needs a good expert on "The Conspiracy."

[IndianaGreen]

50. It's the primary season, bud!

And another thing, my voting for Kerry in the Fall does not change my belief that he will be an electoral disaster, and will lose big time.

[jfxgillis]

54. Irrelevant

Your broadcasting of VILE and REPEATEDLY DISPROVEN slander outweighs any other political judgment or act you may perform between now and November.

In other words, your vote in November isn't worth the price you're demanding of it now.

You are SCOUNDREL, sir, and any American citizen of good faith, any voter of good faith, any Democrat of good faith, any supporter of any other Democratic primary candidate, any other supporter of Clark, and Wesley Clark himself is beholden to disassociate themselves from you and your disgusting and degrading tactics.

You are evil.

Now go ply your diabolic tricks elsewhere. You bore me.

[KFC]

31. He should have opted for skiing in Aspen

You know. That place where all the back-injured people go to recuperate.

[w13rd0]

34. Well...

i'm sure less families have been firebombed in Aspen than in Southeast Asia...nt

[bigtree]

35. Welcome to DU, wal.

:hi:

[FXDS]

66. My dad wrote that.

My dad and myself are backing Kerry and Edwards. My dad earned the bronze star on more than one occasion. The reason he thinks the Bronze and the Silver are more so earned, is that getting wounded is a lot easier to accomplish.

My Father fought Nazis years ago and continues to do so!


Kerry/Edwards 2004!

[creativelcro]

30. Yup... GOP invasion, i agree...

[bigtree]

33. Robert Frost, 'Mending Walls'

Before I built a wall I'd ask
What I was walling in or walling out
And to whom I was like to give offense.

[La_Serpiente]

32. I've been a Kerry supporter

for quite awhile.

[Maddy McCall]

36. Let's see...it IS primary season, so why would DU membership

not jump during this time?

I think it's great that DEMOCRATS are coming on board, no matter whom they support!

Welcome, NEW DU DEMOCRATS!!!

:kick: :toast: :kick:

[emulatorloo]

39. Melodybe I lurked for a long while, then I posted in Lounge and then

posted in GD now and again as I was making up my mind between Dean and Kerry. Then I went away for a while. While I was gone I was mostly going to Dean and Kerry Rallies and researching them. When I firmed up for Kerry I talked to my friends and neighbors rather than posting on DU.

After the caucus I came back to DU. I heard a bunch of allusions to a big ABD movement, which must have happened while I was away. It kinda sickened me to hear about it and I am glad I missed it.

After the caucus, I was more "out" about my Kerry support. I was especially disturbed when I saw things posted that the caucuses were fixed, Iowans are dumb, or how could Kerry come from behind it must be a conspiracy? I posted on those threads because they upset me, because they didn't square w my experience at all.

I have tried hard to present my point of view in a courteous way. I have given some curt replies but only to what seem to be provocative posts. I tried not to describe why I supported Kerry over Dean because I didn't think that it was necessary to enumerate why I went the way I did, other than to express my enthusiasm for Kerry.

I posted on some of "The Scream" threads early on since I saw it live, but I gave my point of view only. Which while not positive, isn't really overblown w negativity. I really got sick of them after a day and tried to refrain from posting on them so as not to prolong them, I think Dean has been handling that issue well and have said so.

I have also tried to explain some of Kerry's positions, but sometimes find that the questions are being asked only because the poster already has an answer in mind, and that is bothersome.

I would really like to see things cool down around DU. . .I beleive that many of the hotbed issues here right now are being blown out of proportion - negative campaigning for one. All of the candidates have attacked each other at one time or another, and no doubt it will continue until the end.

A lot of times the attitude I see here is that it is only negative campaigning if the other candidate is doing it. That bothers me too.

Unfortunately negative things are part of politics, and I guarantee you that we will all be cheering when the nominee blasts Bush with both barrels.

Some things that are really really upsetting people on DU, like the Clark Kerry pulling rank issue, seem to be just silly media puff ups - the media trying to create a big drama between the two.

So no, I am not a GOP operative or a Freeper disruptor. My name "Emulatorloo' is for my favorite sampling keyboard, the Emu Emulator III. I post under that name on a Yahoo group devoted to sampling, and I couldn't come up w anything better for DU. So no I am not a Republican "emulating" a DUer to promote John Kerry so that GWB can run against him.

No doubt more info than you wanted.

[paulk]

41. there's been a few new ones

but not all of us have the avatar, so it's not always that easy to tell. Maybe it's cause you've only been on the board a short while and you don't recognize the names.

[jpgray]

47. LOL, we're still ridiculously outnumbered by anyone but Edwards

We can't swamp a thread, and we get pretty exhausted running back and forth having to discount the same rumors. Post an anti-Dean thread you get swamped with disapproval. Post an anti-Kerry thread you are swamped with praise.

[JohnKleeb]

49. thats true sadly

Both should be condemned :(.
Take it from someone who supported both guys at one time or the other. Yes, I did support Dean, like around this time last year.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

64. Well, you shoulda been in P&C back in September.

I don't know how many times I felt like the last guy wearing a blue coat at the Little Bighorn. This is pretty mellow, now, comparitively... there really is safety in numbers.

[UTUSN]

51. When We Decided We Wanted to Beat the CRAP Out of Shrub??? n/t

[mmonk]

56. Flavor of the month?

Or is there more to it?

[jfxgillis]

57. Not anymore.

As I was just discussing elsewhere, in game theory, once moves are made and payoffs (+ and -) are generated, the range of possible outcomes gets more and more restricted.

"Flavor of the month" stuff was 2003.

Doesn't mean Kerry's a lock, not by a long shot, but this isn't just fickleness, either.

[mmonk]

65. not in reference to Kerry

but the sudden appearance here of more support. In that context, my question stands.

[jfxgillis]

68. Oh, well, that's obvious ....

.... and I don't mean this perjoratively.

DemocraticUnderground ON AVERAGE probably attracts a following skewed towards the:

Left

Young

Idealistic

Technolocially literate

Activist and

Anti-establishment

elements in the Democratic party. Hence, the candidates that appealed to those aspects appeared strong. Mainstream, establishment machine Dems are less likely to appear here in numbers reflective of the population or the party at large.

Me? I literally thrilled to the Dean phenomena, I LOVED IT, but I also literally rode this "INSURGENT" bus with Eugene McCarthy in 1968 and I was convinced from the start that Dean's candidacy was destined for failure IF, I say IF, anything except winning the nomination is failure. I'm older and wiser now, more understanding of incremental progress, more respectful of the experience and committment that it must have taken to BECOME "the establishment."

But I saw no reason to post such depressing (for the Dean supporters) sentiments, and, btw, I think Dean's movement is in long term best interests of both the party and the nation.

IOW, would you have rathered we Kerryons rained on your parade?

[mmonk]

69. so where were the Kerry supporters again

before the recent surge?

[jfxgillis]

70. Quietly awaiting events ....

... and not swept up in the whirlwind of the contest.

[arewethereyet]

60. lots of ugly talk over the last several months

do you fault them for bypassing the abuse ?

I don't

[JI7]

61. i have been here forever

well, not really forever. but i have been here as a kerry supporter for months.

[frank frankly]

63. since I read about Iran-Contra and the BCCI

and saw a townhall meeting

which was all after I stopped hating him for the IWR. still hate the vote, but now I love the man.

[Hippo_Tron]

67. Same time that all of the Dean Bashing became Kerry bashing...

Right after Kerry won Iowa.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

71. Compare from Sep. 18, 2003

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=360991